Why isn't the MKV container more widely supported by devices out there?

zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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After looking at everything that the MKV container supports, why isn't this video container more widely supported by more devices out there? The Kindle Fire seems to support goodness knows how many video containers, including MKV. Apple and Sony, from what I've read, still refuse to support this video container that seems to support almost all modern video and audio formats known to man, as well as other things as well. I just don't get why Apple and Sony refuse to support this great container. I might be wrong, but I think MKV is open source as well. MKV will probably have been fine tuned to hell.

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  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    zx50 wrote: »
    After looking at everything that the MKV container supports, why isn't this video container more widely supported by more devices out there? The Kindle Fire seems to support goodness knows how many video containers, including MKV. Apple and Sony, from what I've read, still refuse to support this video container that seems to support almost all modern video and audio formats known to man, as well as other things as well. I just don't get why Apple and Sony refuse to support this great container. I might be wrong, but I think MKV is open source as well. MKV will probably have been fine tuned to hell.

    The folks at matroska screwed the pooch. it's a good container and allows multiple audio streams, (and video for that matter), chapters and a lot of things that you get with dvd/bluray.

    but they changed the standards when they introduced things like compressed headers and were openly mocking of things like WDTV that couldn't handle the new files. which is pretty pathetic because the previous version of mkvtools couldn't either.

    without backwards compatibility the container is useless.
  • paulj48paulj48 Posts: 1,122
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    zx50 wrote: »
    Apple and Sony, from what I've read, still refuse to support this video container that seems to support almost all modern video and audio formats known to man,.

    I'm sure VLC for iOS available from the App store for free will play MKV files?
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    paulj48 wrote: »
    I'm sure VLC for iOS available from the App store for free will play MKV files?

    Ah, right. Not that I have any Apple products, but it still probably means that the iPad won't be able to play MKV. I was just curious.
  • paulj48paulj48 Posts: 1,122
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    zx50 wrote: »
    Ah, right. Not that I have any Apple products, but it still probably means that the iPad won't be able to play MKV. I was just curious.

    iOS and the App store are for the Ipad/Iphone/Ipod touch I have VLC installed on my Ipad mini retina to watch downloaded shows, works a treat.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    paulj48 wrote: »
    iOS and the App store are for the Ipad/Iphone/Ipod touch I have VLC installed on my Ipad mini retina to watch downloaded shows, works a treat.

    And on the iPad it plays MKV files?
  • paulj48paulj48 Posts: 1,122
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    zx50 wrote: »
    And on the iPad it plays MKV files?

    Theres half a dozen Apps on the store that will play MKV's on an Ipad/Iphone
  • s2ks2k Posts: 7,410
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    My Nexus 7 has no trouble with MKV. It works with the builtin video player but I use VLC as it has a nicer interface. I also use ES File Explorer to browse my downloads directory on my PC and launch them from there, works really well.

    The PS3 can also be tricked into playing most (but admittedly not all) using MKV2VOB.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    I can't understand why there isn't far more MKV files on torrent sites if there's no problem with playing them on Apple devices then. Oh well...
  • Esot-ericEsot-eric Posts: 1,293
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    zx50 wrote: »
    I can't understand why there isn't far more MKV files on torrent sites if there's no problem with playing them on Apple devices then. Oh well...

    Because most of the scene groups that encode and release stuff follow certain agreed standards.

    The standards for SD TV rips still call for the MP4 container. Until 6 months ago the SD DVD/BD rip standards were still using Xvid! The newest ruleset for retail-ripped SD content has now switched to the MKV container, so you should be seeing more of these in the future.

    HD stuff has been using MKV for a while.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    Esot-eric wrote: »
    Because most of the scene groups that encode and release stuff follow certain agreed standards.

    The standards for SD TV rips still call for the MP4 container. Until 6 months ago the SD DVD/BD rip standards were still using Xvid! The newest ruleset for retail-ripped SD content has now switched to the MKV container, so you should be seeing more of these in the future.

    HD stuff has been using MKV for a while.

    I have seen a few MKV HD video files on torrent sites. I've also seen the odd few standard definition video files in MKV on them. I think more video files should be encoded with the MKV extension, what with it supporting almost every video and audio format going, and quite a few other things as well.
  • fmradiotuner1fmradiotuner1 Posts: 20,478
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    I read H.264 is much better now and takes less space & is better quality?
    They also have H.265 to.
    MKV seems old now?
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    I read H.264 is much better now and takes less space & is better quality?
    They also have H.265 to.
    MKV seems old now?

    According to Wikipedia, MKV cam out around the same time as MP4 did. I can't find any videos on torrent sites that mention H.265.
  • c4rvc4rv Posts: 29,538
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    Esot-eric wrote: »
    HD stuff has been using MKV for a while.

    Yeah, at least 6 or 7 years.

    And we should start seeing more H.265 stuff starting to come through. Its supposedly twice as efficient as H.264 and supports UHD.
  • Matt DMatt D Posts: 13,153
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    I read H.264 is much better now and takes less space & is better quality?
    They also have H.265 to.
    MKV seems old now?

    MKV is a container, H.264 and H.265 are video compression formats.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    c4rv wrote: »
    Yeah, at least 6 or 7 years.

    And we should start seeing more H.265 stuff starting to come through. Its supposedly twice as efficient as H.264 and supports UHD.

    More? I've not seen any H.265 videos out there yet.
  • Esot-ericEsot-eric Posts: 1,293
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    zx50 wrote: »
    More? I've not seen any H.265 videos out there yet.

    You won't really see them for a while yet. There are a few anime releases using it, but the anime scene usually start using new codecs years before other scene groups do.

    Although h.265 is twice as efficient as h.264 it takes a lot more than twice as long to encode a file (last time i looked it was around 9 times slower).

    I'm not entirely convinced that h.265 will win the next-gen codec war. Google's VP9 is much better positioned to take on h.265 than VP8 was with h.264 and they recently announced partnerships with lots of hardware makers.
  • IvanIVIvanIV Posts: 30,301
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    MKV is an open format, maybe that's why. Or because MKV is often preferred by various pirate torrent sites. MP4 is a mainstream container, MKV is not. Streaming can be an issue, you usually see MP4 and WMV streamed, not MKV. Matroska probably can be streamed in some way, too, not sure. You can usually put what is in MKV into MP4, too. For what it's worth my Surface 2 has an app to play MKV files, but I used it maybe twice.
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    in respect of h265 there is also a lack of publicly available encoders.

    whilst x264 is probably the best h264 encoder. x265 is not. large parts of it, whole sections of functionality are unwritten. if you compare the output from x264 to x265 if you set x264 with everything as high as it can go it's actually better than x265 and several times faster.

    as for scene rules it took 9 years from h264/avc being standardised to it being adopted by the scene. don't hold your breath. it's a lot to do with standalone compatibility.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    Esot-eric wrote: »
    You won't really see them for a while yet. There are a few anime releases using it, but the anime scene usually start using new codecs years before other scene groups do.

    Although h.265 is twice as efficient as h.264 it takes a lot more than twice as long to encode a file (last time i looked it was around 9 times slower).

    I'm not entirely convinced that h.265 will win the next-gen codec war. Google's VP9 is much better positioned to take on h.265 than VP8 was with h.264 and they recently announced partnerships with lots of hardware makers.

    The thing is, will Google's VP9 codec take off like H.264 did? It's all about which one starts getting used more by people.
  • DaedrothDaedroth Posts: 3,065
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    paulj48 wrote: »
    Theres half a dozen Apps on the store that will play MKV's on an Ipad/Iphone
    That may be true, however the problem lies with getting the MKV file onto the iPad in the first place. For those who do not Jailbreak their iOS devices, Apple do not officially support the MKV format, meaning that iTunes cannot add/transfer the file to a connected iOS device. (Obviously this excludes using unofficial transfer methods or streaming)
  • paulj48paulj48 Posts: 1,122
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    Daedroth wrote: »
    That may be true, however the problem lies with getting the MKV file onto the iPad in the first place

    No jail breaking needed at all, Its extremely easy to get files from onto my Ipad, VLC and all the other apps just use wifi transfer within their own app and through a web browser on the PC or Mac, very simple and fast.
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    paulj48 wrote: »
    No jail breaking needed at all, Its extremely easy to get files from onto my Ipad, VLC and all the other apps just use wifi transfer within their own app and through a web browser on the PC or Mac, very simple and fast.

    yes but it's not within the model of how iPad users are taught to use their device.
  • paulj48paulj48 Posts: 1,122
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    flagpole wrote: »
    yes but it's not within the model of how iPad users are taught to use their device.

    I dont really get that statement, it may have been true a few years ago before icloud but not now.

    I use an ipad mini retina and I have never attached it to my Macbook once, I use icloud and iTunes Match. I only ever use the suppllied lead to charge it.
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    paulj48 wrote: »
    I dont really get that statement, it may have been true a few years ago before icloud but not now.

    I use an ipad mini retina and I have never attached it to my Macbook once, I use icloud and iTunes Match. I only ever use the suppllied lead to charge it.

    good for you.

    everyone else also has the exact same usage pattern as you too. and everyone is happy to upload their pirated HD movies with iCloud.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    paulj48 wrote: »
    I dont really get that statement, it may have been true a few years ago before icloud but not now.

    I use an ipad mini retina and I have never attached it to my Macbook once, I use icloud and iTunes Match. I only ever use the suppllied lead to charge it.

    They must start off from somewhere other than their iCloud. Like, for instance, torrent sites.
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