Dishonest postman - What would you do?

EuanMebabeEuanMebabe Posts: 1,188
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Last week I paid extra for Special Delivery so an item could be delivered to me before 1.00pm. It was actually delivered at 3.15pm. I now have to return it to Amazon but cannot get a refund on the £7.49 I paid for Special Delivery because the postman signed for it on my behalf and recorded the delivery time as 11.33am. That is simply a lie. When he came to the door I told him I had been expecting the package earlier. He looked uncomfortable and made a pretence at trying to locate the docket for my signature. He then claimed he'd left it on the van and not to worry, he'd sign it for me. I didn't realise what he would actually do.

What do I do now? He's put me in a horrible situation. I'm out of pocket and he's lied. If I pursue this, will he get into trouble? I don't want that. Obviously the signature on his docket isn't mine. He annoys the hell out of me because when he's on I rarely get my post before 4.00pm. However, whenever he's off sick, which is frequently, everyone else manages to get here by 12ish.

What would you do?
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Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,881
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    What were the financial repercussions of it being delivered 2 hours and 15 minutes late? How do you measure the fact that you are out of pocket?

    OK, you paid for special delivery and they should have delivered it on time. But it is not Amazon's problem Royal Mail delivered it late, so I can't see why they would refund that money in any case.
  • EuanMebabeEuanMebabe Posts: 1,188
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    What were the financial repercussions of it being delivered 2 hours and 15 minutes late? How do you measure the fact that you are out of pocket?

    OK, you paid for special delivery and they should have delivered it on time. But it is not Amazon's problem Royal Mail delivered it late, so I can't see why they would refund that money in any case.

    Hi. I think you're right. I would need to take up the refund of Special Delivery cost with Royal Mail. Amazon are paying for the return postage.

    There was no financial repercussion because it was delivered late, but it was time critical, which is why I paid extra. That's what Special Delivery is for.
  • Babe RainbowBabe Rainbow Posts: 34,349
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    EuanMebabe wrote: »
    Last week I paid extra for Special Delivery so an item could be delivered to me before 1.00pm. It was actually delivered at 3.15pm. I now have to return it to Amazon but cannot get a refund on the £7.49 I paid for Special Delivery because the postman signed for it on my behalf and recorded the delivery time as 11.33am. That is simply a lie. When he came to the door I told him I had been expecting the package earlier. He looked uncomfortable and made a pretence at trying to locate the docket for my signature. He then claimed he'd left it on the van and not to worry, he'd sign it for me. I didn't realise what he would actually do.

    What do I do now? He's put me in a horrible situation. I'm out of pocket and he's lied. If I pursue this, will he get into trouble? I don't want that. Obviously the signature on his docket isn't mine. He annoys the hell out of me because when he's on I rarely get my post before 4.00pm. However, whenever he's off sick, which is frequently, everyone else manages to get here by 12ish.

    What would you do?

    Why don't you want him to get into trouble ? If he gets away with it he will just continue to do it again and again.
    You should report him to the Post Office. It is not your problem if he gets a bollocking for it.

    And I would also report it to Amazon. It is Amazon that have the contract with RM and they are HUGE. They should know that their contractors are not operating properly.
  • stud u likestud u like Posts: 42,100
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    Complain and tape your conversations next time.
  • NormandieNormandie Posts: 4,617
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    But it is not Amazon's problem Royal Mail delivered it late, so I can't see why they would refund that money in any case.
    Yes it is - because Amazon's contract is with Royal Mail to perform a service for their (Amazon's) customer.

    If Amazon has taken a fee from the customer to pay to RM to deliver to specific criteria and the RM fails to meet this obligation then Amazon should be advised. As the contract is between Amazon and RM there is no way the customer can get any refund from RM, they can only get it from Amazon.

    However, I don't understand the "don't want to get the postman into trouble". Either you want your money back or you don't. Tell Amazon when the item arrived and that neither you or anyone in your house signed for the delivery even though you were in. Explain that the docket was not presented to you for signature when the delivery was made and that any signature and time they have on the documentation prior to the actual time of delivery is fraudulent.

    Or the customer accepts that they've paid a premium for a service that wasn't provided and writes it off. I wouldn't. If your bank makes a mistake would you worry that the cashier might get into trouble and therefore let it go?

    Any loss the customer did or did not suffer by it being delivered late is beside the point and I doubt that could be the subject of any claim.

    ETA:
    EuanMebabe wrote: »
    Hi. I think you're right. I would need to take up the refund of Special Delivery cost with Royal Mail. Amazon are paying for the return postage
    No you wouldn't and I explained why above. The fact Amazon are paying for the return postage is a different matter and irrelevant to the matter of the delivery fee to you.
  • EuanMebabeEuanMebabe Posts: 1,188
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    Why don't you want him to get into trouble ? If he gets away with it he will just continue to do it again and again.
    You should report him to the Post Office. It is not your problem if he gets a bollocking for it.

    And I would also report it to Amazon. It is Amazon that have the contract with RM and they are HUGE. They should know that their contractors are not operating properly.

    Okay, the reason I don't want him to get into trouble is that I feel a little sorry for him. He's morbidly obese and struggles with walking, which is probably why he's off sick so often. Personally I don't think he's well enough to be in a job where walking is a fundamental requirement, but hey, I'm not a doctor. Also, for all I know he might be under special measures or something and my complaint could be the final straw. I wouldn't like that on my conscience.
  • EuanMebabeEuanMebabe Posts: 1,188
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    Normandie wrote: »
    Yes it is - because Amazon's contract is with Royal Mail to perform a service for their (Amazon's) customer.

    If Amazon has taken a fee from the customer to pay to RM to deliver to specific criteria and the RM fails to meet this obligation then Amazon should be advised. As the contract is between Amazon and RM there is no way the customer can get any refund from RM, they can only get it from Amazon.

    However, I don't understand the "don't want to get the postman into trouble". Either you want your money back or you don't. Tell Amazon when the item arrived and that neither you or anyone in your house signed for the delivery even though you were in. Explain that the docket was not presented to you for signature when the delivery was made and that any signature and time they have on the documentation prior to the actual time of delivery is fraudulent.

    Or the customer accepts that they've paid a premium for a service that wasn't provided and writes it off. I wouldn't. If your bank makes a mistake would you worry that the cashier might get into trouble and therefore let it go?

    Any loss the customer did or did not suffer by it being delivered late is beside the point and I doubt that could be the subject of any claim.

    ETA:
    No you wouldn't and I explained why above. The fact Amazon are paying for the return postage is a different matter and irrelevant to the delivery fee to you.

    Yes I would like my money back, but I'm just concerned that in pursuing this it might get very unpleasant.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,881
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    The big problem here is that as far as Amazon is concerned the item was delivered before 1pm because that is what Royal Mail are saying. So in their eyes Royal Mail has done what they paid them to do. I doubt the OP will get very far with this route. He can tell them what has happened but without proof it is his word against the posties.

    The real issue here is that the postman falsified the delivery note.

    In an ideal world Amazon would take up the case and get the money back from Royal Mail. I just can't see that happening.
  • Babe RainbowBabe Rainbow Posts: 34,349
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    EuanMebabe wrote: »
    Okay, the reason I don't want him to get into trouble is that I feel a little sorry for him. He's morbidly obese and struggles with walking, which is probably why he's off sick so often. Personally I don't think he's well enough to be in a job where walking is a fundamental requirement, but hey, I'm not a doctor. Also, for all I know he might be under special measures or something and my complaint could be the final straw. I wouldn't like that on my conscience.

    Well I can understand that. And it does you credit that you feel like that. But at the end of the day folks are not getting their post on time and nothing will change if you don't report it. And you can't resolve this current issue without reporting it to somebody.

    The alternative is just suck it up and accept that it will probably happen again.
  • Keefy-boyKeefy-boy Posts: 13,561
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    Some battles are worth fighting, some aren't. Only you can decide this.

    Personally I'd value my time and the likely grief spent in pursuing this to be disproportionate to the amount involved.
  • babinabababinaba Posts: 5,424
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    on the flip side, maybe you reporting him will make the Post Office/Royal Mail see that he needs additional training or something, it could help in the long run.
  • EuanMebabeEuanMebabe Posts: 1,188
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    Okay, you've all given me a lot to think about. Really appreciate your input. Thank you.

    It's probably too early for any posties to be reading this, but if any of you are out there, please tell me what happens back at the office when someone complains about Special Delivery not being delivered before 1.00pm.

    Thanks again.
  • NormandieNormandie Posts: 4,617
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    Keefy-boy wrote: »
    Personally I'd value my time and the likely grief spent in pursuing this to be disproportionate to the amount involved.
    It's an email to Amazon.How much grief is that?
  • fondantfancyfondantfancy Posts: 3,968
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    Euan, this guy forged your signature, why would you want to protect him from the consequences? If he's prepared to commit forgery what else is he prepared to do to cover his inability to do the job properly?
  • EuanMebabeEuanMebabe Posts: 1,188
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    Euan, this guy forged your signature, why would you want to protect him from the consequences? If he's prepared to commit forgery what else is he prepared to do to cover his inability to do the job properly?

    It's swings and roundabouts really, because usually I'm happy for him to sign for me when I'm not here, which he does regularly so I don't have to queue up at the sorting office. It backfired this time because the item I was waiting for was time critical and he didn't get it to me on time. I'm unhappy that he felt it necessary to lie about forgetting the delivery docket etc and that he falsified the delivery time, and I will see him in a different light from now on as a result.

    However, I can also see he's struggling to do this job. It's a rural route and he has a long, uphill walk on uneven ground from the farm gate to my house. As I said before, for all I know his line manager might already be on his back, as he is very slow. I would hate to think a complaint from me was the final evidence they're looking for to get rid of him.

    I really am beginning to think I should just take the hit and not claim back the additional postage for Special Delivery. I still appreciate that you took the time to reply though. Thanks.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 704
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    EuanMebabe wrote: »
    Last week I paid extra for Special Delivery so an item could be delivered to me before 1.00pm. It was actually delivered at 3.15pm. I now have to return it to Amazon but cannot get a refund on the £7.49 I paid for Special Delivery because the postman signed for it on my behalf and recorded the delivery time as 11.33am. That is simply a lie. When he came to the door I told him I had been expecting the package earlier. He looked uncomfortable and made a pretence at trying to locate the docket for my signature. He then claimed he'd left it on the van and not to worry, he'd sign it for me. I didn't realise what he would actually do.

    What do I do now? He's put me in a horrible situation. I'm out of pocket and he's lied. If I pursue this, will he get into trouble? I don't want that. Obviously the signature on his docket isn't mine. He annoys the hell out of me because when he's on I rarely get my post before 4.00pm. However, whenever he's off sick, which is frequently, everyone else manages to get here by 12ish.

    What would you do?

    You would have thought that if he had left the item on the van,then he would have given it to you, instead of signing for it.
  • EuanMebabeEuanMebabe Posts: 1,188
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    jeremyc wrote: »
    You would have thought that if he had left the item on the van,then he would have given it to you, instead of signing for it.

    Jeremy, I don't understand. He handed me the package and then claimed the paperwork that needed to be signed was back in the van, and said he'd sign it for me.
  • nvingonvingo Posts: 8,619
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    EuanMebabe wrote: »
    Last week I paid extra for Special Delivery so an item could be delivered to me before 1.00pm. It was actually delivered at 3.15pm. I now have to return it to Amazon but cannot get a refund on the £7.49 I paid for Special Delivery because the postman signed for it on my behalf and recorded the delivery time as 11.33am
    Are you returning it because it failed to arrive when required and was therefore no longer needed, or because it is otherwise not satisfactory?
    Also, it doesn't ought to be possible for the postie to record a false delivery time, although RM are behind other couriers equipping with electronic docket consoles.
    Are other neighbours able to confirm the time the postie delivered in the area that day?
  • EuanMebabeEuanMebabe Posts: 1,188
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    nvingo wrote: »
    Are you returning it because it failed to arrive when required and was therefore no longer needed, or because it is otherwise not satisfactory?
    Also, it doesn't ought to be possible for the postie to record a false delivery time, although RM are behind other couriers equipping with electronic docket consoles.
    Are other neighbours able to confirm the time the postie delivered in the area that day?

    Usually whenever I sign for something with Royal Mail they hand me a machine with a stylus, but this time the postman mentioned paperwork. I'm not sure how the time was falsified but when I click on the tracking link on Amazon, it shows "Delivered" and then this time of 11.33am.
  • Keefy-boyKeefy-boy Posts: 13,561
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    Normandie wrote: »
    It's an email to Amazon.How much grief is that?

    How about because when Amazon check the delivery time with the Post Office it will show that the item was delivered on time?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 12,881
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    Three issues here:

    1) the postman who is normally very accommodating has covered his back (and that was naughty), but he does help you out at other times for which you are clearly grateful

    2) you want the money back - was the £7.49 over and above what you would have paid for normal delivery or was it £7.49 in total. If it was £7.49 in total then you are actually losing a lot less than that.

    3) Can you face the time it will take you to sort this out and the extra time you will spend collecting items that your normally accommodating postman does not sign for?
  • The Lost BoyThe Lost Boy Posts: 1,330
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    Report it. The postman was/is upto no good somewhere along the line. Their routes are planned so the timed deliveries can be made on time.
    If i had to guess i'd say he was popping if for a cup of tea at Mrs Jones house & is buying himself some time at your expense.
  • Babe RainbowBabe Rainbow Posts: 34,349
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    EuanMebabe wrote: »
    It's swings and roundabouts really, because usually I'm happy for him to sign for me when I'm not here, which he does regularly so I don't have to queue up at the sorting office. It backfired this time because the item I was waiting for was time critical and he didn't get it to me on time. I'm unhappy that he felt it necessary to lie about forgetting the delivery docket etc and that he falsified the delivery time, and I will see him in a different light from now on as a result.

    However, I can also see he's struggling to do this job. It's a rural route and he has a long, uphill walk on uneven ground from the farm gate to my house. As I said before, for all I know his line manager might already be on his back, as he is very slow. I would hate to think a complaint from me was the final evidence they're looking for to get rid of him.

    I really am beginning to think I should just take the hit and not claim back the additional postage for Special Delivery. I still appreciate that you took the time to reply though. Thanks.

    This puts an entirely different complexion on the situation. You have given him carte blanche to do what you are now complaining about doing. You can't have it both ways.

    Let it go this time and either tell him you don't want him to do it in future or be prepared for it to go belly up again sometime.
  • maxinerulesmaxinerules Posts: 698
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    Be thankful he does not wipe his penis on your letters.
  • NormandieNormandie Posts: 4,617
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    Keefy-boy wrote: »
    How about because when Amazon check the delivery time with the Post Office it will show that the item was delivered on time?
    How about that fact is covered in the email to Amazon. Grief of one extra line. However, I do think that grief is a bit redundant now.

    As Babe Rainbow implies, the fact that the postman does - however in/frequently - sign for the OP (with the OP's blessing for the OP's convenience) does make it (at least morally) a somewhat ambiguous situation. And a difficult one to argue if the OP wants postie to sign again on his / her behalf in the future. So it's a question of priorities: is writing off the fee worth past and future convenience?

    I agree with BR, can't have it both ways.
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