If your wife is a cleaner you are seriously telling me she earns enough to live, without benefits, in a house on her own with a decent lifestyle?
Maybe you could let people out there know what company she works for.......
Sure. Peninsula Cleaning. Nice firm, about 60 employees, all on a pretty good wage. My wife doesn't live on her own, but we aren't on benefits and yeah, she could probably support the pair of us for a short time at least, if I went out of business tomorrow. She's on a decent hourly rate and, since she does cover work, is paid a retainer so that if she isn't needed, she's still earning as she's on call. Thanks for asking.:)
Can I be in it, too? I've got the glasses and the limp, I only need the black raincoat.
'No! I said 'Flick, the Gestapo!'
6 month waiting list for the raincoat, and its beige, not black. Other than that, sure you can join up. Youll earn slightly more than a parking attendant.
Sure. Peninsula Cleaning. Nice firm, about 60 employees, all on a pretty good wage. My wife doesn't live on her own, but we aren't on benefits and yeah, she could probably support the pair of us for a short time at least, if I went out of business tomorrow. She's on a decent hourly rate and, since she does cover work, is paid a retainer so that if she isn't needed, she's still earning as she's on call. Thanks for asking.:)
So... she wouldn't be able to live on her own without benefits in the long term. Thanks.
It demonstrates the fundamental immorality of a rich, sophisticated Capitalist state.
It is only immoral if you believe everyone should have the same amount of money, for some undefined reason
Personally I couldn't care less if person x is a billionaire as long as I have a relatively comfortable life (which I do).
I spent six months doing post famine reconstruction work in Ethiopia. That is real poverty. Most of the people I worked with would love to have the lifestyle of an average British worker, a lifestyle that has been supplied by capitalism tempered by sensible social policy.
You have had ample opportunity to provide any evidence of the success of a socialist state
The closest you got was Cuba, but not really and Russia if Lenin was not dead
If Lenin was not dead he would be approaching 150 years old.
And communism still wouldn't have been achieved.
And the peasants of the Ukraine would still have starved during the collectivization experiment in the 1920's/1930's.
(incidentally did you know the national flag of the Ukraine is a representation of sky above a wheatfield in recognition of the fertility of the land. To achieve the conditions necessary for a famine there is an act of true organisational genius).
The average cleaner earns generally near the minimum wage.
Are you seriously implying that is enough to live on in your own accommodation without benefits?
But she isnt living on her own, is she? And if she was, im sure there would be benefits to assist her depending on her situation. But then this is what youre claiming socialism would do anyway, so I dont understand your point. Unless of course you feel that under socialism, she would be paid more with profits taken from the mysterious surplus of money that State has taken from everyone else, including her I assume.
Plus under socialism she wouldnt have a job anyway, it sounds like a private company, meaning the position would not exist in the first place.
...In a perfect World, we know that under our system you could argue not everyone has the same opportunity (and those obstacles should be removed) but the principle remains that anyone, who can either put the effort in or come up with an idea can become proportionally richer than those that don't.
Communism however provides no benefit for working harder or being more Innovative than the rest of the population so would cause a freezing of progress.
Communism only works to people who think we have everything we need and there is no need for innovation.
I didn't. I said that if I went bust, she wouldn't be able to support both of us for long without benefits. That's rather different. And I wouldn't expect her too. We wouldn't be in immediate trouble, though.
...In a perfect World, we know that under our system you could argue not everyone has the same opportunity (and those obstacles should be removed) but the principle remains that anyone, who can either put the effort in or come up with an idea can become proportionally richer than those that don't.
Communism however provides no benefit for working harder or being more Innovative than the rest of the population so would cause a freezing of progress.
Communism only works to people who think we have everything we need and there is no need for innovation.
Precisely. It's a recipe for stagnation and apathy.
Wasn't Marx a bit of a berk?
Didn't he say the State would wither away?
And Communism would be the advanced state of humankind?
Hasn't happened, has it?
Instead it stopped short at, probably, the most brutal and barbaric system of Government ever.
Until that collapsed in 1989/90.
Capitalism by its very nature adapts.
And preserves freedom.
Wasn't Marx a bit of a berk?
Didn't he say the State would wither away?
And Communism would be the advanced state of humankind?
Hasn't happened, has it?
Instead it stopped short at, probably, the most brutal and barbaric system of Government ever.
Until that collapsed in 1989/90.
Capitalism by its very nature adapts.
And preserves freedom.
I agree, but unrivalled capitalism - totally free capitalism - can enslave people. It can create ignorance where there might not have been ignorance. Look at the money making machine "The X Factor" and tell me that hasn't brought down our society just a little bit....
I agree, but unrivalled capitalism - totally free capitalism - can enslave people. It can create ignorance where there might not have been ignorance. Look at the money making machine "The X Factor" and tell me that hasn't brought down our society just a little bit....
Naturally, but there is some responsibility to protect the vulnerable. Instead of showering them with crap like x Factor and I'm a Celeb, I just want people to know there is ACTUAL culture out there. I had the pleasure of watching a documentary on Germany last night on BBC Four. How many people would find that appealing, hmm? And how many people would find that appealing if it was just a little but more shoved in their face - like X Factor....?
Comments
Can I be in it, too? I've got the glasses and the limp, I only need the black raincoat.
'No! I said 'Flick, the Gestapo!'
I am speaking of a living wage.
6 month waiting list for the raincoat, and its beige, not black. Other than that, sure you can join up. Youll earn slightly more than a parking attendant.
You would have to ask tingrametro directly to be absolutely certain, but I'm pretty sure his wife is still alive.
Make that three. Have you ever been there?
It demonstrates the fundamental immorality of a rich, sophisticated Capitalist state.
So... she wouldn't be able to live on her own without benefits in the long term. Thanks.
Like Digital Spy's own Chemical Ali
Where did he say that?
Do you have anything meaningful to contribute?
What evidence? Right wing opinion, you mean?
It is only immoral if you believe everyone should have the same amount of money, for some undefined reason
Personally I couldn't care less if person x is a billionaire as long as I have a relatively comfortable life (which I do).
I spent six months doing post famine reconstruction work in Ethiopia. That is real poverty. Most of the people I worked with would love to have the lifestyle of an average British worker, a lifestyle that has been supplied by capitalism tempered by sensible social policy.
You have had ample opportunity to provide any evidence of the success of a socialist state
The closest you got was Cuba, but not really and Russia if Lenin was not dead
The average cleaner earns generally near the minimum wage.
Are you seriously implying that is enough to live on in your own accommodation without benefits?
I don't know.
Do you?
If Lenin was not dead he would be approaching 150 years old.
And communism still wouldn't have been achieved.
And the peasants of the Ukraine would still have starved during the collectivization experiment in the 1920's/1930's.
(incidentally did you know the national flag of the Ukraine is a representation of sky above a wheatfield in recognition of the fertility of the land. To achieve the conditions necessary for a famine there is an act of true organisational genius).
But she isnt living on her own, is she? And if she was, im sure there would be benefits to assist her depending on her situation. But then this is what youre claiming socialism would do anyway, so I dont understand your point. Unless of course you feel that under socialism, she would be paid more with profits taken from the mysterious surplus of money that State has taken from everyone else, including her I assume.
Plus under socialism she wouldnt have a job anyway, it sounds like a private company, meaning the position would not exist in the first place.
Communism = Equal Outcome
...In a perfect World, we know that under our system you could argue not everyone has the same opportunity (and those obstacles should be removed) but the principle remains that anyone, who can either put the effort in or come up with an idea can become proportionally richer than those that don't.
Communism however provides no benefit for working harder or being more Innovative than the rest of the population so would cause a freezing of progress.
Communism only works to people who think we have everything we need and there is no need for innovation.
In this case, yes. We own our own house, no mortgage, and she is not on minimum wage.
Precisely. It's a recipe for stagnation and apathy.
Didn't he say the State would wither away?
And Communism would be the advanced state of humankind?
Hasn't happened, has it?
Instead it stopped short at, probably, the most brutal and barbaric system of Government ever.
Until that collapsed in 1989/90.
Capitalism by its very nature adapts.
And preserves freedom.
I agree, but unrivalled capitalism - totally free capitalism - can enslave people. It can create ignorance where there might not have been ignorance. Look at the money making machine "The X Factor" and tell me that hasn't brought down our society just a little bit....
Only if you watch it.
Which is entirely your choice.
Naturally, but there is some responsibility to protect the vulnerable. Instead of showering them with crap like x Factor and I'm a Celeb, I just want people to know there is ACTUAL culture out there. I had the pleasure of watching a documentary on Germany last night on BBC Four. How many people would find that appealing, hmm? And how many people would find that appealing if it was just a little but more shoved in their face - like X Factor....?