Bichon Frise toilet help !! part 2
you may have read my other post.. here is the update..
we have moved him over to wet tinned food which he likes and eats quite happily. His poos (sorry) seem harder which is better now. But he still poos and wees in the house. I am starting to think it may be because he is very very nervous and is not around his 15 other dogs, the change of house, change of people, change of rooms and the fact he is 21 months old it may take longer.
Does this seem legible? how do we stop it. He doesnt do it on the puppy pads but we can try it again i suppose.
He also does not want to go out for walks as he seems nervous. When I take him out he is startled by everything and always looks back.
I think he is ok health wise, I just think he is going through a massive culture change and may take a while.
Any thoughts or tips?
But he is very happy sat with us on the sofa cuddling up with us.
we have moved him over to wet tinned food which he likes and eats quite happily. His poos (sorry) seem harder which is better now. But he still poos and wees in the house. I am starting to think it may be because he is very very nervous and is not around his 15 other dogs, the change of house, change of people, change of rooms and the fact he is 21 months old it may take longer.
Does this seem legible? how do we stop it. He doesnt do it on the puppy pads but we can try it again i suppose.
He also does not want to go out for walks as he seems nervous. When I take him out he is startled by everything and always looks back.
I think he is ok health wise, I just think he is going through a massive culture change and may take a while.
Any thoughts or tips?
But he is very happy sat with us on the sofa cuddling up with us.
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Comments
forgot to add, when my wife nips out, she puts him in his cage and he sometimes poos.
Have to say even now 8 years on Duncan still has the occasional accident, usually my fault when I have missed him waking up.
It sounds like you have bought a dog that is neither toilet trained or properly socialised with the outside world. You will have to put the work into doing yourself. You need to treat him like you would a 8 week old puppy, get rid of the puppy pads as it will only confuse him. Take him out once an hour, after food and water and lots of praise for going outside. Clean up any piddles or poops inside with biological washing powder or simple solution as the smell can encourage them to keep going in the same place.
Take the socialisation very slowly, just outside and back and gradually build things up. Puppies have a period of fearlessness when its best to get them used to the outside world, if that hasn't happened it may take him longer to get used to new experiences. If this gets worse you may want to contact a qualified positive reward based trainer via the APDT which is the UKs association for good behaviourists www.apdt.co.uk/
You need to go back to complete basics, this appears to be a dog with no training, no time and no socialising efforts spent on him at all.
You will need to get over the fact that you and your wife are going to HAVE to spend quite a lot of time in your back garden.
He is essentially a puppy...and puppies will poo and wee when they need to, he has to learn bladder and bowel control and he has to learn that the garden is the place to go. With our 18 month old we practically spent the first three months of having him in the garden.
The fact he will go in his crate isn't good...and points to even more problems if I'm honest.
Keep him crated, even when you are in the house. Get up first thing and take him out - wait, wait and wait until he does a wee and a poo. Whilst he is squatting, say a word or phrase - for my dog it is 'go do poo', although we say 'go do poo' we used to say it for all toileting - at the time your dog is going, mid squat, say the phrase. It could be anything - toilet now, do wee, whatever. Say it every single time and then really praise him.
Let him out for a bit for love cuddles and stuff, then put him back .
Put him back for the length of time it takes for his bladder or bowel to need to go again and then repeat the above, wait, wait, wait until he goes. When he does go, during the event say the phrase. When he is done, praise well.
If he doesn't go - put him back in the crate for another 15-20 mins and repeat. He needs to learn that he can only come in the rest of the house after he has done his business outside.
As I said, get used to being outside - this dog has had no training at all, this won't be easy and it won't happen overnight - you are talking weeks and months of training here.
When he goes in the house, show it to him, say a firm and low 'NO' and frown (do not shout!). He needs to also know it displeases you. I would also get a pet neutraliser for toilet accidents, this should hopefully discourage him from linking any remaining odours on your floor indicating 'toilet area' to him.
I would also advise you to feed him in his crate for a bit, this will hopefully encourage him not to poo where he eats. If he is crated overnight I would set your alarm half way through the night to take him out. He has no control and asking a dog with no bladder and bowel discipline or capacity to wait overnight isn't fair.
The reason I recommend saying a phrase when he is doing it is eventually he will learn to empty on your demand, this is really helpful for long car journeys or times when he will be crated for longer than usual etc. My dog will now empty upon me saying my phrase, he also will not go anywhere but outside.
You've really taken on an unknown quantity here and the more you post, the more it sounds to me like he was just a breeding commodity to his previous owner, not a pet at all and received nothing but food from her.
I would question you putting him up on the sofa with you. I don't know your family status but, is he on the sofa when your kids (if you have any) are playing on the floor? If so - that's not a good idea - he has essentially come from a pack and finding his pecking order will be something he will naturally want to do. If he feels he is elevated above anyone else in your household this may be storing up problems.
I would strongly urge you to get in touch with a behaviourist, your vets should be able to put you in touch or even some of the veterinary nurses can also advise as some of them do behaviour courses too. At my vets you don't have to pay to see the nurses.
Get advice, be careful with this dog, I'm sure he is lovely but, he sounds neglected, that can lead to big problems. He has had no socialisation and a scared dog can be a dangerous dog. Take things very slow, understand you are in for the long haul with him.
Walk him to the nearest lamppost and when there give a treat and then walk back home, repeat every day, once or twice a day. After one week increase it to two lampposts along, give treat, walk back. The idea being that he is fixated on the treat after a while and not on the 'scary' things outside. You need to build his confidence very slowly and once he learns that good things happen outside hopefully he will become more sure of his surroundings.
Again - back to complete basics and it will, again, take weeks and months. Get some real advice from some qualified people. Don't leave things to chance.
Hi
Thank you for your very detailed answer. We shall look into all of this and start on it. We understand he has not had much in the way of training, although the breeder did say he was toilet trained and he is finding his feet. But hey ho, he is an adorable little thing and we shall persist with the training and advice.
Yesterday he did seem a little more relaxed also.
I shall provide updates at intervals.
Lots of the advice above was good but DO NOT tell him no or tell him off when he messes in the house/crate - it confuses him and has been proven to make training more difficult. I won't go into pack theory again re: the sofa etc, but having him on the sofa will have zero affect on his toiletting.