According to the Daily Telegraph King's injury will mean it's unlikely he'll play again in this World Cup. Fabio's gamble fails miserably with this one.
Can we call someone else up, as with King and Rio out, we are really short of defenders, with only Carragher, Terry and Dawson left (who can play at Centre-back)??
According to the Daily Telegraph King's injury will mean it's unlikely he'll play again in this World Cup. Fabio's gamble fails miserably with this one.
So the worse case scenario is that he is out for about two weeks - I can live with Carragher and Terry v Algeria and Slovenia.
So the worse case scenario is that he is out for about two weeks - I can live with Carragher and Terry v Algeria and Slovenia.
Hardly a fail.
I'm sure those players are perfectly capable for those games too. But if theres another injury or suspension (Carra is already on a yellow), can we really trust Ledley's fitness when it comes to the big games?
This injury was nothing to do with his knee, so suggesting he was only half fit is wide of the mark. He's had a great season, and played a good few games.
His quality was such that he was worth taking as Ferdinands deputy. Ferdinand has had an injury hit season, and was probably a bigger gamble than KIng.
If he doesn't recover, a lack of pace will be a problem for England, a comment I made in yesterdays thread on this topic!
I'm sure those players are perfectly capable for those games too. But if theres another injury or suspension (Carra is already on a yellow), can we really trust Ledley's fitness when it comes to the big games?
The short answer is no, its a surprise when he plays a game and doesn't pick up an injury, it was an insane decision to take him.
Can we call someone else up, as with King and Rio out, we are really short of defenders, with only Carragher, Terry and Dawson left (who can play at Centre-back)??
This injury was nothing to do with his knee, so suggesting he was only half fit is wide of the mark. He's had a great season, and played a good few games.
His quality was such that he was worth taking as Ferdinands deputy. Ferdinand has had an injury hit season, and was probably a bigger gamble than KIng.
If he doesn't recover, a lack of pace will be a problem for England, a comment I made in yesterdays thread on this topic!
I agree.
Taking any player at all is a risk, as any player can suffer an injury at any time.
I mean, Capello picked Rio first (before Dawson), and he got injured just training, but I don't see anyone saying that would have been a 'fail' by Capello too.
As others have said, we have only two games before King may be able to return, and those games are not likely to be overly demanding of the defense in the sense we would be at risk without King or Ferdy.
Also, some people seem to be getting muddled up, as having a bad knee is not actually related to the groin, and the knee is not the reason he is unable to play.
If anything, this gives him an extra week and a half to rest his knee, meaning IF we get through to the third week and IF he is fit to play, he will not have already played three games (which in itself would cause people to say 'he has played three mayches already, he will not be able to manage more' etc).
Rubbish. He's played much of the season. Who could have gone in front of him?
Half of the season, in a tournament where the games come thick and fast a player with glass legs such as King cannot be relied on.
Personally I would have made Dawson first choice to replace Ferdinand and then its difficult as we don't have any depth at all in central defence but probably either Roger Johnson, Phil Jagielka or even Sol Campbell for his experiece, as cover.
Also, some people seem to be getting muddled up, as having a bad knee is not actually related to the groin, and the knee is not the reason he is unable to play.
If anything, this gives him an extra week and a half to rest his knee, meaning IF we get through to the third week and IF he is fit to play, he will not have already played three games (which in itself would cause people to say 'he has played three mayches already, he will not be able to manage more' etc).
He is an injury prone player there's no getting away from it, whether its his knee or not there's always something up with him unfortunately. We need a settled back 4, not chopping and changing a crock in and out of the team.
Half of the season, in a tournament where the games come thick and fast a player with glass legs such as King cannot be relied on.
Personally I would have made Dawson first choice to replace Ferdinand and then its difficult as we don't have any depth at all in central defence but probably either Roger Johnson, Phil Jagielka or even Sol Campbell for his experiece, as cover.
Kings usual recovery time is 6 days, and after much consultation, it was deemed he could be a serious member of the squad in those circumstances.
When he plays, he is probably the best centre half in the Country, and far better than those you mention, who if taken would be behind the ones in line for a game now anyway.
Carragher was talked out of retirement, because no one else was ahead of him.
He is an injury prone player there's no getting away from it, whether its his knee or not there's always something up with him unfortunately. We need a settled back 4, not chopping and changing a crock in and out of the team.
He is so much better than the rest that it was worth the risk. If he hadn't been there, we'd still be left with those filling in now anyway.
Kings usual recovery time is 6 days, and after much consultation, it was deemed he could be a serious member of the squad in those circumstances.
When he plays, he is probably the best centre half in the Country, and far better than those you mention, who if taken would be behind the ones in line for a game now anyway.
Carragher was talked out of retirement, because no one else was ahead of him.
I don't doubt he is, he's an excellent player. but he can't be relied on to play every game, its just an unfortunate fact. Someone like Dawson or Johnson have been regulars and had very good seasons which potentially could have carried over into the world cup. All the best teams have settled central defences and King simply cant offer that.
I genuinely would be worried about us qualifying with a CB pairing of Terry and Carragher. You wouldn't need to be a good, or even half decent, side to score against us. Just have a frontman with abit of pace and you would get multiple one on one's with our goalie per match.
He is so much better than the rest that it was worth the risk. If he hadn't been there, we'd still be left with those filling in now anyway.
But its not so much a risk as a certainty that he will get injured and miss games, a weeks recovery per game as well as a predisposition to picking up other niggling injuries simply doesn't work when it comes to a world cup where there are (potentially) 7 games in a month.
Kings usual recovery time is 6 days, and after much consultation, it was deemed he could be a serious member of the squad in those circumstances.
When he plays, he is probably the best centre half in the Country, and far better than those you mention, who if taken would be behind the ones in line for a game now anyway.
Carragher was talked out of retirement, because no one else was ahead of him.
I rate him as better than Ferdinand.
It's a worry that we only have Terry as the only top quality centre half now fit. I think Carragher will be sent off in the first full game he plays.
But its not so much a risk as a certainty that he will get injured and miss games, a weeks recovery per game as well as a predisposition to picking up other niggling injuries simply doesn't work when it comes to a world cup where there are (potentially) 7 games in a month.
You are not being entirely fair.
He DID play a run of games in a short space of time at the end of the season without injury, so you cannot say 'it is a certainty' he will be injured.
It is very easy to say that AFTER he has been injured, but before it, there was no 'certainty' at all.
For me, I fully expect Rooney to get injured at some point - probably his foot again. If he does, does that mean it was a mistake taking him too? I mean he has a fairly bad record with that foot, and we know he is always going to be the prime target for defenders and especially those who like to get rough.
I don't doubt he is, he's an excellent player. but he can't be relied on to play every game, its just an unfortunate fact. Someone like Dawson or Johnson have been regulars and had very good seasons which potentially could have carried over into the world cup. All the best teams have settled central defences and King simply cant offer that.
Ferdinand was more of an injury risk in my opinion, but he had to go. He needed a like for like back up, and King is by far the best player in that position. He's had a good season, and this injury is really unfortunate.
If King had been left out of the squad, there was no ready made centre half of similar quality to step in.
Those that are there are the ones who would have been next in line.
Yeah unfortunately for England that is true, you can only make changes to your 23 man squad 24 hours before your first group game starts, and even then it must be a player from the ones cut out from original 30.
In England's case, they would not have had any other centre back's to call up as Dawson had already came in and the only other defender in the reserves was Leighton Baines.
Comments
So the worse case scenario is that he is out for about two weeks - I can live with Carragher and Terry v Algeria and Slovenia.
Hardly a fail.
I'm sure those players are perfectly capable for those games too. But if theres another injury or suspension (Carra is already on a yellow), can we really trust Ledley's fitness when it comes to the big games?
His quality was such that he was worth taking as Ferdinands deputy. Ferdinand has had an injury hit season, and was probably a bigger gamble than KIng.
If he doesn't recover, a lack of pace will be a problem for England, a comment I made in yesterdays thread on this topic!
The short answer is no, its a surprise when he plays a game and doesn't pick up an injury, it was an insane decision to take him.
Rubbish. He's played much of the season. Who could have gone in front of him?
and Upson
I agree.
Taking any player at all is a risk, as any player can suffer an injury at any time.
I mean, Capello picked Rio first (before Dawson), and he got injured just training, but I don't see anyone saying that would have been a 'fail' by Capello too.
As others have said, we have only two games before King may be able to return, and those games are not likely to be overly demanding of the defense in the sense we would be at risk without King or Ferdy.
Also, some people seem to be getting muddled up, as having a bad knee is not actually related to the groin, and the knee is not the reason he is unable to play.
If anything, this gives him an extra week and a half to rest his knee, meaning IF we get through to the third week and IF he is fit to play, he will not have already played three games (which in itself would cause people to say 'he has played three mayches already, he will not be able to manage more' etc).
Half of the season, in a tournament where the games come thick and fast a player with glass legs such as King cannot be relied on.
Personally I would have made Dawson first choice to replace Ferdinand and then its difficult as we don't have any depth at all in central defence but probably either Roger Johnson, Phil Jagielka or even Sol Campbell for his experiece, as cover.
The rest of them either turn at the pace of a barge or hack people down at every opportunity - or both.
He is an injury prone player there's no getting away from it, whether its his knee or not there's always something up with him unfortunately. We need a settled back 4, not chopping and changing a crock in and out of the team.
Kings usual recovery time is 6 days, and after much consultation, it was deemed he could be a serious member of the squad in those circumstances.
When he plays, he is probably the best centre half in the Country, and far better than those you mention, who if taken would be behind the ones in line for a game now anyway.
Carragher was talked out of retirement, because no one else was ahead of him.
He is so much better than the rest that it was worth the risk. If he hadn't been there, we'd still be left with those filling in now anyway.
I don't doubt he is, he's an excellent player. but he can't be relied on to play every game, its just an unfortunate fact. Someone like Dawson or Johnson have been regulars and had very good seasons which potentially could have carried over into the world cup. All the best teams have settled central defences and King simply cant offer that.
But its not so much a risk as a certainty that he will get injured and miss games, a weeks recovery per game as well as a predisposition to picking up other niggling injuries simply doesn't work when it comes to a world cup where there are (potentially) 7 games in a month.
I rate him as better than Ferdinand.
It's a worry that we only have Terry as the only top quality centre half now fit. I think Carragher will be sent off in the first full game he plays.
You are not being entirely fair.
He DID play a run of games in a short space of time at the end of the season without injury, so you cannot say 'it is a certainty' he will be injured.
It is very easy to say that AFTER he has been injured, but before it, there was no 'certainty' at all.
For me, I fully expect Rooney to get injured at some point - probably his foot again. If he does, does that mean it was a mistake taking him too? I mean he has a fairly bad record with that foot, and we know he is always going to be the prime target for defenders and especially those who like to get rough.
Ferdinand was more of an injury risk in my opinion, but he had to go. He needed a like for like back up, and King is by far the best player in that position. He's had a good season, and this injury is really unfortunate.
If King had been left out of the squad, there was no ready made centre half of similar quality to step in.
Those that are there are the ones who would have been next in line.
No you can't. They said that on GMTV earlier.
Yeah unfortunately for England that is true, you can only make changes to your 23 man squad 24 hours before your first group game starts, and even then it must be a player from the ones cut out from original 30.
In England's case, they would not have had any other centre back's to call up as Dawson had already came in and the only other defender in the reserves was Leighton Baines.
I'm not usually one for advocating that inexperienced defenders should be started in major tournaments but it has to be Dawson for me now.