I am not sure if people are aware, but the judge specifically said he will serve half his sentence in prison and the remaining half out on licence. I may start a petition to demand the time spent in prison is increased. Thirty months is no time at all and it won't do this man's well-being any good if it isn't long enough for him to come to terms with what he has done.
Lol. Or you could do nothing and the outcome will be the same. I'd save your time if I were you.
You know my feelings about this but anyhow........there was one young lass on the platform who was clearly visible not some great big group of drunks causing chaos.
An accident yes but one that could have been avoided.
Any accident can be avoided Mrs Teapot.....
But unfortunately, they still happen and always will.
Any accident can be avoided Mrs Teapot.....
But unfortunately, they still happen and always will.
If you were employed in a position in which you were expected to anticipate danger and give an indication to a driver that it was safe to move off would you do so if someone was leaning on the vehicle?
In this case the vehicle was a train with a substantial gap between the platform and substantial drop onto a track next to the wheels.
Some of the platforms on Merseyrail are really low compared to the train, not sure on James street but Hamilton Square just 1 stop before it you practically have to climb on the train.
Seems like a lot of people are, perhaps, allowing their feelings about what a 16 year old was doing out, drunk and drugged, at 11:30pm to influence their judgement about the incident, itself.
The guard obviously did screw up and probably deserves to be punished for it.
The parents, however, need to wind their necks in and take a long, hard look at what they might have done differently rather than placing all the blame for their daughters tragic death on the guard.
Some of the platforms on Merseyrail are really low compared to the train, not sure on James street but Hamilton Square just 1 stop before it you practically have to climb on the train.
I use James st station daily, and the platform is pretty much on the same level as the train.
It's very tragic, but you'd think the parents would have the decency to keep their mouths shut. They're partly responsible, so acting like butter wouldn't melt and slagging the driver off is a bit rich. Just have a bit of dignity seriously.
Amazing how so many either entirely blame the girl or entirely blame the guard.
They BOTH were at fault. 2 stupid decisions, 1 life lost.
She died and this is his deserved punishment.
He had a lapse of judgement, and the punishment was excessive. Its sad the girl died but her parents and the so called friends have to accept their roles in her death.
I'm a train manager for Virgin and i can assure you that what happened to her was just a tragic accident but remember this , the network will grind to a halt when guards refuse to signal trains to depart because of drunks/druggys and general morons acting stupid on the platform near the trains.
He will win on an appeal as the judge made errors.
I am not sure if people are aware, but the judge specifically said he will serve half his sentence in prison and the remaining half out on licence. I may start a petition to demand the time spent in prison is increased. Thirty months is no time at all and it won't do this man's well-being any good if it isn't long enough for him to come to terms with what he has done.
What a sad person you are, anyway he will be freed on appeal.
It is excessive, a few weeks ago a thug left her child in a buggy and launched an unprovoked racially motivated attack on a man, and got no prison sentence, here we have a decent man doing his job and makes an error of judgement and gets five years. Yes she died and that is a tragedy but it was an accident.
Why isn't the owner of the establishment where she got drunk, or the person who bought her drinks, or sold the the drugs in the dock, they are equally guilty, and dare I suggest that her parents might well have seen her arrive home drunk and under the influence of drugs before, but according to her mother this is what sixteen year olds do, they also have a responsibility.
It is excessive, a few weeks ago a thug left her child in a buggy and launched an unprovoked racially motivated attack on a man, and got no prison sentence, here we have a decent man doing his job and makes an error of judgement and gets five years. Yes she died and that is a tragedy but it was an accident.
Why isn't the owner of the establishment where she got drunk, or the person who bought her drinks, or sold the the drugs in the dock, they are equally guilty, and dare I suggest that her parents might well have seen her arrive home drunk and under the influence of drugs before, but according to her mother this is what sixteen year olds do, they also have a responsibility.
Whether a person is a "decent man" (compared to "real" criminals, I assume?) is irrelevant in cases of culpability such as this. Normally decent people go to prison when they cause death by dangerous driving, even if that too is just a lapse of judgement. In his job, his responsibilities would be clear, and he would have had them drummed into him.
He had a lapse of judgement, and the punishment was excessive. Its sad the girl died but her parents and the so called friends have to accept their roles in her death.
I'm a train manager for Virgin and i can assure you that what happened to her was just a tragic accident but remember this , the network will grind to a halt when guards refuse to signal trains to depart because of drunks/druggys and general morons acting stupid on the platform near the trains.
He will win on an appeal as the judge made errors.
Do you have any specific guidance on how to deal with such individuals, so as not to delay the train departing ?
Incidentally, whilst I certainly think this was gross negligence by the guard, it was also a lapse of judgement. I too think 5 years was a tad excessive. At the same time, I think placing blame on the girl being drunk is a red herring, since a person might just as easily be ill and in the same position as her. The fact she was drunk, is irrelevant.
He had a lapse of judgement, and the punishment was excessive. Its sad the girl died but her parents and the so called friends have to accept their roles in her death.
I'm a train manager for Virgin and i can assure you that what happened to her was just a tragic accident but remember this , the network will grind to a halt when guards refuse to signal trains to depart because of drunks/druggys and general morons acting stupid on the platform near the trains.
He will win on an appeal as the judge made errors.
Just curious.....why does any rail network employ a guard specifically to signal when it is safe for a train to depart?
Just curious.....why does any rail network employ a guard specifically to signal when it is safe for a train to depart?
They don't just do that and not all train operating companies have guards. Some are Driver Only Operation. I'm a guard or 'Senior Conductor' as my official job title is. And we do many duties. We are responsible for safe dispatch of trains from platforms as you have mentioned, timekeeping of trains, customer service and information, ticket checks, ticket selling (especially where I work as its a rural area so 90% of stations are unstaffed). We deal with defects and problems within the train itself. General tidying, assisting in shunt movements and unfortunately anti-social behaviour.
They don't just do that and not all train operating companies have guards. Some are Driver Only Operation. I'm a guard or 'Senior Conductor' as my official job title is. And we do many duties. We are responsible for safe dispatch of trains from platforms as you have mentioned, timekeeping of trains, customer service and information, ticket checks, ticket selling (especially where I work as its a rural area so 90% of stations are unstaffed). We deal with defects and problems within the train itself. General tidying, assisting in shunt movements and unfortunately anti-social behaviour.
The driver concentrates on driving the train.
Ok so what you are saying is that this particular guard was not responsible for signalling to the driver that it was safe to pull away. That is was not his responsibility?
Ok so what you are saying is that this particular guard was not responsible for signalling to the driver that it was safe to pull away. That is was not his responsibility?
Ok so what you are saying is that this particular guard was not responsible for signalling to the driver that it was safe to pull away. That is was not his responsibility?
They don't just do that and not all train operating companies have guards. Some are Driver Only Operation. I'm a guard or 'Senior Conductor' as my official job title is. And we do many duties. We are responsible for safe dispatch of trains from platforms as you have mentioned, timekeeping of trains, customer service and information, ticket checks, ticket selling (especially where I work as its a rural area so 90% of stations are unstaffed). We deal with defects and problems within the train itself. General tidying, assisting in shunt movements and unfortunately anti-social behaviour.
It is not relevant that the girl was 16, that she was drunk, what she was wearing (good grief!). She could have been 18 and just ill. 80 and frail. 52 and stupid.
Fact is, it is the guards job to make sure people are clear of the train before letting it pull off. All people, any people. And he didnt do that.
I do think 5 years is too much, when compared to sentences for other, completely deliberate crimes.
As for blaming the parents, they let her go to a party. I let mine go to parties. I lecture them about drink, drugs, the dangers of, I tell them not to drink etc etc etc. And then I cross my fingers and hope! And worry myself sick till they come home safely. Luckily my daughter isnt keen on skimpy clothing so if she does get killed I wont have the shame of her being accused of dressing like a ****. Phew!
ETA: My son isnt keen on skimpy clothing either, double phew!
Comments
Lol. Or you could do nothing and the outcome will be the same. I'd save your time if I were you.
Any accident can be avoided Mrs Teapot.....
But unfortunately, they still happen and always will.
If you were employed in a position in which you were expected to anticipate danger and give an indication to a driver that it was safe to move off would you do so if someone was leaning on the vehicle?
In this case the vehicle was a train with a substantial gap between the platform and substantial drop onto a track next to the wheels.
I fear we will continue to disagree
The guard obviously did screw up and probably deserves to be punished for it.
The parents, however, need to wind their necks in and take a long, hard look at what they might have done differently rather than placing all the blame for their daughters tragic death on the guard.
I use James st station daily, and the platform is pretty much on the same level as the train.
Accident but not really accidental. If it had been, the guard wouldn't have been found guilty.
It was manslaughter by gross negligence.
The man was criminally negligent towards someone for whom he had a duty of care, he recklessly disregarded his duty and because of that, someone died.
Oops I miss read the post. I will edit.
They BOTH were at fault. 2 stupid decisions, 1 life lost.
She died and this is his deserved punishment.
He had a lapse of judgement, and the punishment was excessive. Its sad the girl died but her parents and the so called friends have to accept their roles in her death.
I'm a train manager for Virgin and i can assure you that what happened to her was just a tragic accident but remember this , the network will grind to a halt when guards refuse to signal trains to depart because of drunks/druggys and general morons acting stupid on the platform near the trains.
He will win on an appeal as the judge made errors.
What a sad person you are, anyway he will be freed on appeal.
Why isn't the owner of the establishment where she got drunk, or the person who bought her drinks, or sold the the drugs in the dock, they are equally guilty, and dare I suggest that her parents might well have seen her arrive home drunk and under the influence of drugs before, but according to her mother this is what sixteen year olds do, they also have a responsibility.
Whether a person is a "decent man" (compared to "real" criminals, I assume?) is irrelevant in cases of culpability such as this. Normally decent people go to prison when they cause death by dangerous driving, even if that too is just a lapse of judgement. In his job, his responsibilities would be clear, and he would have had them drummed into him.
Do you have any specific guidance on how to deal with such individuals, so as not to delay the train departing ?
Incidentally, whilst I certainly think this was gross negligence by the guard, it was also a lapse of judgement. I too think 5 years was a tad excessive. At the same time, I think placing blame on the girl being drunk is a red herring, since a person might just as easily be ill and in the same position as her. The fact she was drunk, is irrelevant.
An appeal against the conviction? On what grounds?
Just curious.....why does any rail network employ a guard specifically to signal when it is safe for a train to depart?
They don't just do that and not all train operating companies have guards. Some are Driver Only Operation. I'm a guard or 'Senior Conductor' as my official job title is. And we do many duties. We are responsible for safe dispatch of trains from platforms as you have mentioned, timekeeping of trains, customer service and information, ticket checks, ticket selling (especially where I work as its a rural area so 90% of stations are unstaffed). We deal with defects and problems within the train itself. General tidying, assisting in shunt movements and unfortunately anti-social behaviour.
The driver concentrates on driving the train.
Ok so what you are saying is that this particular guard was not responsible for signalling to the driver that it was safe to pull away. That is was not his responsibility?
He might succeed in getting the sentence reduced, but the conviction of gross negligence will surely stand.
No, I don't think anybody has said that.
Answers is right there in the first line.
Fact is, it is the guards job to make sure people are clear of the train before letting it pull off. All people, any people. And he didnt do that.
I do think 5 years is too much, when compared to sentences for other, completely deliberate crimes.
As for blaming the parents, they let her go to a party. I let mine go to parties. I lecture them about drink, drugs, the dangers of, I tell them not to drink etc etc etc. And then I cross my fingers and hope! And worry myself sick till they come home safely. Luckily my daughter isnt keen on skimpy clothing so if she does get killed I wont have the shame of her being accused of dressing like a ****. Phew!
ETA: My son isnt keen on skimpy clothing either, double phew!