A tad trollish, but not without truth or relevance. They certainly did appear to be ill trained, and the pathetic inadequacy of the stretcher was shocking. I wonder if US troups would be similarly equipped in such a situation?
That said, they came across as a great bunch of lads, and it was a hugely insightful programme. It brought out two truths to me -
1) The class structure in the army is as prevalent as ever
2) How war should be an absolute last resort. A curse on the pathetic politicians who send kids like this into theatre on a political whim.
I don't think it highlights the class structure in the Army, more like the education opportunities in the UK. On entering the army, you take a test, the higher the score, the more opportunities and options you have to enter into the army. Anyone can become an officer, you just have to be clever. It just goes to show that the poorer people in the UK have poorer education.
I don't think it highlights the class structure in the Army, more like the education opportunities in the UK. On entering the army, you take a test, the higher the score, the more opportunities and options you have to enter into the army. Anyone can become an officer, you just have to be clever. It just goes to show that the poorer people in the UK have poorer education.
I wish that were the case. I've been through the Officer selection progress, and whilst being intelligent is a virtue, it's not the only thing required to become an officer. To put things in perspective; you have to be physically fit (more so than the 'men' so you can set an example), mature, disciplined, able to think on your feet, a natural leader, and confident. Not everyone who applies gets in. I managed to but then suffered a massive setback by injuring my knee which basically put a stopper on any career in the army.
I wish that were the case. I've been through the Officer selection progress, and whilst being intelligent is a virtue, it's not the only thing required to become an officer. To put things in perspective; you have to be physically fit (more so than the 'men' so you can set an example), mature, disciplined, able to think on your feet, a natural leader, and confident. Not everyone who applies gets in. I managed to but then suffered a massive setback by injuring my knee which basically put a stopper on any career in the army.
Sorry to hear about your injury! Sorry, thje point I was trying to make is that the army doesn't itself differentiate between class's, it's the actual social system of the UK which might give certain class's an advantage when when joining the army.
Sorry to hear about your injury! Sorry, thje point I was trying to make is that the army doesn't itself differentiate between class's, it's the actual social system of the UK which might give certain class's an advantage when when joining the army.
Ah yeah, I see where you're coming from now! My bad
That does seem to be true though. It's not changed in the last 200 years at least! Although nowadays there does seem to be less of a distinction and discrimination towards officers up from the ranks and the "officer class"
Sorry to hear about your injury! Sorry, thje point I was trying to make is that the army doesn't itself differentiate between class's, it's the actual social system of the UK which might give certain class's an advantage when when joining the army.
OK.
Just that I've yet to hear an officer with a working class accent. Like lawyers.
The guy I felt sorry for (in addition to the family of the lad who died) was the one that had epilepsy (presumably brought on by his experiences?).
K
I agree, poor guy lost his job over a medical condition. In any other profession that'd be discrimination. However in this instance, whilst I feel sorry for the guy, it could prove so dangerous in his line of work if he had a seizure whilst on duty. Hopefully he didn't find it too hard to find something else to do.
Not impressed when the Sergent said to his men when they were struggling to carry him that if he dies as a result of them being slow, he'd hate them for ever! That was devastating.
you wouldnt understand the black humour and morale that would bring from that moment, later.....when they are all sat around in the FOB...
The NCO (Sergeant), is adding to the break of stress with his comments..
Up until 2006, most British troops where in Kabul and or quieter parts of Afghanistan.
In 2006, it was our turn to take charge and lead the Nato side of operations as America run under their own command I believe their.
The government at the time only sent about 1 thousand troops initally and left them like that for the first year I think and that was bonkers from the outset!!!
You don't send in troops into a country like that and that Helmand borders into the region of Pakistan where its suspected many Taliban/Al Qaeda have been living in, Quetta etc etc.
The footage was from 2007, it would be good to have a more up to date coverage too to see how much of not of an impact the troops are having now.
When I see pictures of Afghnaistan now, it does seem to have developed quite good in various cities which has got to be a good thing.
The programme also showed how the nature of warfare has changed in 100 years.
Consider the situation in WW1, where thousands of young men were required to simply walk out - poorly defended and barely adequately armed - into enemy fire... and if they fell, there was pretty much little prospect of anyone coming to get them to safety until whatever "purpose" their orders had, was carried out. It showed just how expendable they all were.
It was heart-warming and a relief to see that now - even one single man being injured was considered a priority and that it was imperative to try to get them to safety and assistance as soon as possible.
The programme showed so well how traumatic it is to have to deal with the death of a close colleague and the importance of the manner in which family and colleagues are helped to come to terms with a death in action.
Squaddies often come in for a lot of criticism - and the programme showed how poorly equipped they were to deal on a practical and emotional level with their injured colleague. However, I'd say that this is not always something which can be adequately "taught" and has to be actually experienced in order to be able to respond in the best way possible. I'm sure they all "grew up" very quickly as a result of this experience.
[QUOTE=Moany Liza;50647650]The programme also showed how the nature of warfare has changed in 100 years.
Consider the situation in WW1, where thousands of young men were required to simply walk out - poorly defended and barely adequately armed - into enemy fire... and if they fell, there was pretty much little prospect of anyone coming to get them to safety until whatever "purpose" their orders had, was carried out. It showed just how expendable they all were.
It was heart-warming and a relief to see that now - even one single man being injured was considered a priority and that it was imperative to try to get them to safety and assistance as soon as possible.
The programme showed so well how traumatic it is to have to deal with the death of a close colleague and the importance of the manner in which family and colleagues are helped to come to terms with a death in action.
Squaddies often come in for a lot of criticism - and the programme showed how poorly equipped they were to deal on a practical and emotional level with their injured colleague. However, I'd say that this is not always something which can be adequately "taught" and has to be actually experienced in order to be able to respond in the best way possible. I'm sure they all "grew up" very quickly as a result of this experience.[/QUOTE]
I agree... I'd go far to say 200 years. 200 years ago they weren't even wearing dull colours, but prancing around in red coats, or the lucky few in green...lining up to be shot.
I don't think we can comprehend what they went through, my friend who was out there until march/april watched it and said that it was still pretty accurate to what it's like now. Got to remember that he majority of the fighting isn't or was never in the major conurbations but in more rural areas.
It was heart-warming and a relief to see that now - even one single man being injured was considered a priority and that it was imperative to try to get them to safety and assistance as soon as possible.
Yep and it's because of this, that so many of these Soldiers are now surviving such horrific injuries.
New York Times are doing a similar series, using footage recorded by the Soldiers. The last video shows them stuck in a minefield where two went off and injured the Soldiers, what amazed me was just how calm they all are.. Can you imagine being there knowing that you could get blown up any moment :eek:
Yep and it's because of this, that so many of these Soldiers are now surviving such horrific injuries.
New York Times are doing a similar series, using footage recorded by the Soldiers. The last video shows them stuck in a minefield where two went off and injured the Soldiers, what amazed me was just how calm they all are.. Can you imagine being there knowing that you could get blown up any moment :eek:
The letter sequences made me weep. But it was very telling when they wanted revenge for taking one of their own... "For every life they take from us, we'll get 40 of THEM".... and this is why the cycle never ends, only gets worse.
I also can't help but see the irony of treating a man with a rifle (British Army) with more respect than another man with a rifle (Taliban), especially when the former is the invader, the latter the defender of his lands.
The letter sequences made me weep. But it was very telling when they wanted revenge for taking one of their own... "For every life they take from us, we'll get 40 of THEM".... and this is why the cycle never ends, only gets worse.
I also can't help but see the irony of treating a man with a rifle (British Army) with more respect than another man with a rifle (Taliban), especially when the former is the invader, the latter the defender of his lands.
I reckon we treat injured taliban with a lot more respect than they would treat ours...
This quote pretty much sums it up -
The greatest challenge of military nursing, he told me, is to putting personal feelings and emotions to one side to treat a casualty who may have been responsible for killing or injuring coalition troops or Afghan civilians.
Major Simon Davies said many of the injured militants are confused by receiving medical care
"They have their thoughts and we have to respect them. We're in a foreign land doing our bit and I just try to take the emotion out of it. We have the insurgents here as casualties and we have to deliver the same standard of care as if it's a UK squaddie."
i knew it was on, but not my sort of thing, don't agree with them being over there, so had no interest in seeing them in a country they should not be in.
Good job you were'nt forced to watch it then eh? I though it was an incredibly moving docu,just could'nt get over how young some of the squaddies looked
Good job you were'nt forced to watch it then eh? I though it was an incredibly moving docu,just could'nt get over how young some of the squaddies looked
Their choice at the end of the day, they are not forced into the forces. Sad that a lot of been killed, but they know the risks.
Just a waste of life to be honest fighting a war we will never win and to be honest made things worse here
Their choice at the end of the day, they are not forced into the forces. Sad that a lot of been killed, but they know the risks.
Just a waste of life to be honest fighting a war we will never win and to be honest made things worse here
Actually I agree with you in a way,fighting and dying for what? throughout history loads of armies tried to pacify Afghanstan without much success, our lot aren't going to do any better, personally I just think all those young guys have died for nothing,what a bloody waste
Actually I agree with you in a way,fighting and dying for what? throughout history loads of armies tried to pacify Afghanstan without much success, our lot aren't going to do any better, personally I just think all those young guys have died for nothing,what a bloody waste
You'd think we British would learn from our mistakes really... 2 wars in Afghanistan in the 19th Century to our names, and neither successful.
Aye,the Russians used far more brutal tatics in Afghanistan and they could'nt get to grips with the country either.
It's safe to say, that unless we nuke it flat and start again... Afghanistan is one of those countries that will never be tamed. There's too many tribes vying for power in the country for it to ever be "stable" by western standards
There are some interesting views aired here and a lot of uninformed comments too vis officer class, training, history etc. The stretcher used to carry Pte Grey for instance is for emergency use only and to carry the casualty from the Point of Wounding (POW). It was used mainly in the jungle by SAS troops but was 're-discovered' and brought into general use, initially by 3 Commando Brigade Royal Marines.
The platoon did seem shambolic I'm afraid and not well led. The Sgt's comment was not banter and was ill-advised, especially in retrospect. This first episode should not be used as a yardstick or as a recruiting tool; but I expect they got better quickly. I would rather take my chances (and did) with the British anytime, against anybody, particularly our American cousins, who are not especially well trained either and not the best at what they do by any means. Finally, tThe taking over of command of Helmand Province was a costly mistake for many reasons.
Comments
I don't think it highlights the class structure in the Army, more like the education opportunities in the UK. On entering the army, you take a test, the higher the score, the more opportunities and options you have to enter into the army. Anyone can become an officer, you just have to be clever. It just goes to show that the poorer people in the UK have poorer education.
I wish that were the case. I've been through the Officer selection progress, and whilst being intelligent is a virtue, it's not the only thing required to become an officer. To put things in perspective; you have to be physically fit (more so than the 'men' so you can set an example), mature, disciplined, able to think on your feet, a natural leader, and confident. Not everyone who applies gets in. I managed to but then suffered a massive setback by injuring my knee which basically put a stopper on any career in the army.
Sorry to hear about your injury! Sorry, thje point I was trying to make is that the army doesn't itself differentiate between class's, it's the actual social system of the UK which might give certain class's an advantage when when joining the army.
Ah yeah, I see where you're coming from now! My bad
That does seem to be true though. It's not changed in the last 200 years at least! Although nowadays there does seem to be less of a distinction and discrimination towards officers up from the ranks and the "officer class"
K
OK.
Just that I've yet to hear an officer with a working class accent. Like lawyers.
I agree, poor guy lost his job over a medical condition. In any other profession that'd be discrimination. However in this instance, whilst I feel sorry for the guy, it could prove so dangerous in his line of work if he had a seizure whilst on duty. Hopefully he didn't find it too hard to find something else to do.
you admit your post was pathetic, shows that you are capable of the most basic form of social skill.
Well done.
you wouldnt understand the black humour and morale that would bring from that moment, later.....when they are all sat around in the FOB...
The NCO (Sergeant), is adding to the break of stress with his comments..
In 2006, it was our turn to take charge and lead the Nato side of operations as America run under their own command I believe their.
The government at the time only sent about 1 thousand troops initally and left them like that for the first year I think and that was bonkers from the outset!!!
You don't send in troops into a country like that and that Helmand borders into the region of Pakistan where its suspected many Taliban/Al Qaeda have been living in, Quetta etc etc.
The footage was from 2007, it would be good to have a more up to date coverage too to see how much of not of an impact the troops are having now.
When I see pictures of Afghnaistan now, it does seem to have developed quite good in various cities which has got to be a good thing.
Consider the situation in WW1, where thousands of young men were required to simply walk out - poorly defended and barely adequately armed - into enemy fire... and if they fell, there was pretty much little prospect of anyone coming to get them to safety until whatever "purpose" their orders had, was carried out. It showed just how expendable they all were.
It was heart-warming and a relief to see that now - even one single man being injured was considered a priority and that it was imperative to try to get them to safety and assistance as soon as possible.
The programme showed so well how traumatic it is to have to deal with the death of a close colleague and the importance of the manner in which family and colleagues are helped to come to terms with a death in action.
Squaddies often come in for a lot of criticism - and the programme showed how poorly equipped they were to deal on a practical and emotional level with their injured colleague. However, I'd say that this is not always something which can be adequately "taught" and has to be actually experienced in order to be able to respond in the best way possible. I'm sure they all "grew up" very quickly as a result of this experience.
Consider the situation in WW1, where thousands of young men were required to simply walk out - poorly defended and barely adequately armed - into enemy fire... and if they fell, there was pretty much little prospect of anyone coming to get them to safety until whatever "purpose" their orders had, was carried out. It showed just how expendable they all were.
It was heart-warming and a relief to see that now - even one single man being injured was considered a priority and that it was imperative to try to get them to safety and assistance as soon as possible.
The programme showed so well how traumatic it is to have to deal with the death of a close colleague and the importance of the manner in which family and colleagues are helped to come to terms with a death in action.
Squaddies often come in for a lot of criticism - and the programme showed how poorly equipped they were to deal on a practical and emotional level with their injured colleague. However, I'd say that this is not always something which can be adequately "taught" and has to be actually experienced in order to be able to respond in the best way possible. I'm sure they all "grew up" very quickly as a result of this experience.[/QUOTE]
I agree... I'd go far to say 200 years. 200 years ago they weren't even wearing dull colours, but prancing around in red coats, or the lucky few in green...lining up to be shot.
I don't think we can comprehend what they went through, my friend who was out there until march/april watched it and said that it was still pretty accurate to what it's like now. Got to remember that he majority of the fighting isn't or was never in the major conurbations but in more rural areas.
Yep and it's because of this, that so many of these Soldiers are now surviving such horrific injuries.
New York Times are doing a similar series, using footage recorded by the Soldiers. The last video shows them stuck in a minefield where two went off and injured the Soldiers, what amazed me was just how calm they all are.. Can you imagine being there knowing that you could get blown up any moment :eek:
Here's the link - http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/world/battalion.html#/NYT/Features/38
Thanks for that link Jammy
These soldiers are true heroes, but all so modest about it.. it's just a job to them
I also can't help but see the irony of treating a man with a rifle (British Army) with more respect than another man with a rifle (Taliban), especially when the former is the invader, the latter the defender of his lands.
I reckon we treat injured taliban with a lot more respect than they would treat ours...
This quote pretty much sums it up -
Good job you were'nt forced to watch it then eh? I though it was an incredibly moving docu,just could'nt get over how young some of the squaddies looked
Their choice at the end of the day, they are not forced into the forces. Sad that a lot of been killed, but they know the risks.
Just a waste of life to be honest fighting a war we will never win and to be honest made things worse here
You'd think we British would learn from our mistakes really... 2 wars in Afghanistan in the 19th Century to our names, and neither successful.
It's safe to say, that unless we nuke it flat and start again... Afghanistan is one of those countries that will never be tamed. There's too many tribes vying for power in the country for it to ever be "stable" by western standards
Interesting read from the OC of the Platoon
"If I were able to say something to Chris now it would probably be, "Watch out, your mate and fellow soldier Matt Duffy is after your sister!"
The platoon did seem shambolic I'm afraid and not well led. The Sgt's comment was not banter and was ill-advised, especially in retrospect. This first episode should not be used as a yardstick or as a recruiting tool; but I expect they got better quickly. I would rather take my chances (and did) with the British anytime, against anybody, particularly our American cousins, who are not especially well trained either and not the best at what they do by any means. Finally, tThe taking over of command of Helmand Province was a costly mistake for many reasons.