I say 26 Dec is 90% because it is the 26 Dec and it is also a constrained weekend with another round 2 days later. So hard to fit 4 (or even 5) games in - and remember TV companies can pick 5 on a regular weekend.
I would argue it's no more constrained than a normal weekend followed by a midweek round. The difference is a one day gap between games instead of two. So the following could be done (as an example):
Saturday 26th:
Stoke v Man Utd (12.45)
Southampton v Arsenal (5.30)
Sunday 27th:
Liverpool v Leicester (noon)
Newcastle v Everton (2.10pm)
Man City v Sunderland (4.15pm)
Then the matches involving the six teams playing on Sunday are moved to the evening of Tuesday 29th, or even Wednesday 30th to give BT full flexibility (i.e. it might be that both games they want on the 28th end up on the 29th, so one can also move to the 30th).
I would argue it's no more constrained than a normal weekend followed by a midweek round. The difference is a one day gap between games instead of two. So the following could be done (as an example):
Saturday 26th:
Stoke v Man Utd (12.45)
Southampton v Arsenal (5.30)
Sunday 27th:
Liverpool v Leicester (noon)
Newcastle v Everton (2.10pm)
Man City v Sunderland (4.15pm)
Then the matches involving the six teams playing on Sunday are moved to the evening of Tuesday 29th, or even Wednesday 30th to give BT full flexibility (i.e. it might be that both games they want on the 28th end up on the 29th, so one can also move to the 30th).
So if 26th Dec is not the other BH round, are you saying it's Sat 2nd Jan? Assume we all agree 28th Dec is a BH round, as it's actually on a BH.
Spot on post mlt11 on previous page, I revise my earlier comments!
There will be some late nights for sky team if 5 day turnaround is true because although computer program will be used, will need to be sense checked. Sky of course will need outline season plan in place.
I struggle to see a scenario where 26 December is a weekend fixture and 2 January isn't. So for me the BH fixtures are either:
26 December and 28 December OR
26 December and 2 January
There's no way the 28th isn't a Bank Holiday round.
You're also assuming that the 2nd needs to be a Bank Holiday if the 26th isn't. And we all seem to be assuming there does have to be 5 BH/Midweek rounds. Package G simply says:
10 Midweek and Bank hols; 2 at Sat 12.45pm
- 5 1st picks
- 5 2nd picks
- 2 5th picks
There's nothing there about all 10 1st/2nd picks being on midweek or Bank Holiday rounds. Four of each can be used in the definite midweek/Bank Holidays, with the remaining one each being used in a weekend, along with the two fifth picks.
I just find it inconceivable that the Premier League would restrict broadcasters to a total of three games on the weekend of 26th/27th when there's available slots for five games (with some Monday games moved to Tuesday/Wednesday evening).
In a hurry so no time to go through properly but am I right in thinking all 30 big 6 heads to heads are on separate rounds AGAIN! What a coincidence that is.
The only "quasi" double header is with the two Liv/Ev games.
There's nothing there about all 10 1st/2nd picks being on midweek or Bank Holiday rounds. Four of each can be used in the definite midweek/Bank Holidays, with the remaining one each being used in a weekend, along with the two fifth picks.
I just find it inconceivable that the Premier League would restrict broadcasters to a total of three games on the weekend of 26th/27th when there's available slots for five games (with some Monday games moved to Tuesday/Wednesday evening).
You're missing the point that Package B has 2-3 games on Bank Holidays. So Sky could use two games on the 26 December weekend should they wish to convert a fifth pick into a fourth pick.
In a hurry so no time to go through properly but am I right in thinking all 30 big 6 heads to heads are on separate rounds AGAIN! What a coincidence that is.
The only "quasi" double header is with the two Liv/Ev games.
There's no way the 28th isn't a Bank Holiday round.
You're also assuming that the 2nd needs to be a Bank Holiday if the 26th isn't. And we all seem to be assuming there does have to be 5 BH/Midweek rounds. Package G simply says:
There's nothing there about all 10 1st/2nd picks being on midweek or Bank Holiday rounds. Four of each can be used in the definite midweek/Bank Holidays, with the remaining one each being used in a weekend, along with the two fifth picks.
I just find it inconceivable that the Premier League would restrict broadcasters to a total of three games on the weekend of 26th/27th when there's available slots for five games (with some Monday games moved to Tuesday/Wednesday evening).
It clearly states 10 games Midweek and BH, so there must be 5 rounds that fall into this category so there can be 5 1st picks and 5 2nd picks. We know 2 out of 3 of 26th, 28th and 2nd Jan will be assigned Bank Holiday rounds, 28th has so be as it is a bank holiday, I think the other two both have their merits but 26th makes more sense as you can then get all games done on the Saturday so all 28th games can be played on the Monday and you're not mucking around with arranging evening games during Xmas week.
Much easier to spread 5 games 2/3/4th Jan as there is a full week before teams need to play again. It does of course mean BT have over 10% of their seasons Premier league games crammed into just 3 days!
We know 2 out of 3 of 26th, 28th and 2nd Jan will be assigned Bank Holiday rounds...
Do we? As far as I can tell, unless you're privy to extra information, we only know that the 28th will be a Bank Holiday - because it is one.
And I misread the package, apologies. But that still doesn't mean there's no flexibility for years in which there might be fewer midweek or Bank Holiday rounds.
Do we? As far as I can tell, unless you're privy to extra information, we only know that the 28th will be a Bank Holiday - because it is one.
And I misread the package, apologies. But that still doesn't mean there's no flexibility for years in which there might be fewer midweek or Bank Holiday rounds.
BT always get 2 1st pick rounds at Xmas there is absolutely no evidence to suggest this is changing this season, Sky get them from next year by the way so will be less of an issue.
So I'm pretty sure BT will get 2 of those 3 rounds, if not it would have to be another round. Are you suggesting BT get 1st and 2nd picks on a random Saturday round on another date, last game of the season?
In a hurry so no time to go through properly but am I right in thinking all 30 big 6 heads to heads are on separate rounds AGAIN! What a coincidence that is.
The only "quasi" double header is with the two Liv/Ev games.
will be a change for both Mersey derbys to be on sky, as they're not letting them go to BT as a 4th pick
Not mentioned here yet but wonder if Rugby World Cup will have an impact on TV picks.
For example - 3rd October (Sat) is England v Australia in the Rugby which is also Everton v Liverpool, and United v Arsenal weekend. Albeit the Rugby starts at 20:00 so impact on any SNF would be minimal.
A quick look comparing means its unlikely any group stage England games wont clash directly, but a possible England QF or Semi Final could clash with a weekend game.
BT always get 2 1st pick rounds at Xmas there is absolutely no evidence to suggest this is changing this season, Sky get them from next year by the way so will be less of an issue.
I think using "always" is stretching things a bit, since it's only happened twice previously. Technically correct, but does make it sound like it's happened forever.
I also don't see any evidence to suggest the Premier League will want to essentially sacrifice an entire day (Sunday 27th) and restrict the number of games that can be shown.
So I'm pretty sure BT will get 2 of those 3 rounds, if not it would have to be another round. Are you suggesting BT get 1st and 2nd picks on a random Saturday round on another date, last game of the season?
No, I just think their spare first picks will be used as normal first picks on a weekend round where Sky passes.
I think using "always" is stretching things a bit, since it's only happened twice previously. Technically correct, but does make it sound like it's happened forever.
I also don't see any evidence to suggest the Premier League will want to essentially sacrifice an entire day (Sunday 27th) and restrict the number of games that can be shown.
No, I just think their spare first picks will be used as normal first picks on a weekend round where Sky passes.
So are you suggesting BT get a 1st and 2nd pick in this alternate weekend? That would weaken Sky as normally when BT have a normal weekend pick at least Sky have all the other picks.
How on earth would they agree a weekend which would represent this extra BH round, random, what if there was another big head to head can't see Sky being happy with that.
It just makes no sense to me that BT's 5th round with a 1st and 2nd pick will be some random weekend, when it could be Boxing day (like usual) or 2nd Jan in lieu of New Year's day.
I really don't see the issue with no games on Sun 27th Dec, you'll get 10 games on the Sat and another 10 on the Monday, 6 to be telivised as BT will have three and Sky usually take two 3rd picks, so I don't think anyone will be complaining about lack of live TV games when there are 6 in 3 days, usually we only get 4 or 5 in a whole week.
If 26th Dec is a normal round and 5 games are picked you'd then have up to 8 games between 26th and 29th/30th which seems too many.
26th and 28th Dec as BT BH games just seems to make most sense and nobody has come up with a viable alternative to suggest this won't happen. Sat 2nd is a slight possibility as a BH round but this makes more sense as a normal weekend round as you can have your normal two Sat games, two Sun games and Monday night game with no knock on effect with any other games which certainly isn't possible if 26th Dec is assigned as a normal round.
So are you suggesting BT get a 1st and 2nd pick in this alternate weekend? That would weaken Sky as normally when BT have a normal weekend pick at least Sky have all the other picks.
How on earth would they agree a weekend which would represent this extra BH round, random, what if there was another big head to head can't see Sky being happy with that.
They don't need to agree anything. The picks would work as they currently do, except BT will also have the option of a second pick in one weekend if Sky pass up, e.g.
1st pick - Sky
2nd pick - Sky pass, so BT forced to use the remaining 2nd pick from package G
3rd pick - Sky
...
I just think their spare first picks will be used as normal first picks on a weekend round where Sky passes.
Can't see that happening at all. The 5 first picks that BT bought for the midweek/BH rounds are primo first picks, that cannot be given to them by Sky but are instead guaranteed to BT. They also come with 2nd picks attached, so it wouldn't just be a case of Sky passing one weekend and letting BT have 1st pick as they'd also need to have 2nd pick that weekend as well.
The Premier League plan these things well in advance and have their schedules designed specifically to give all the TV rights holders what they pay for. I just don't see a scenario whereby the PL scheduled an entire season with only 4 of the 5 midweek/BH rounds allocated. Can you see them only scheduling 4 rounds and then saying to BT, 'you can use the other 1st and 2nd pick on a weekend Sky pass'? I cannot see that, because doing so would massively dilute the package.
They don't need to agree anything. The picks would work as they currently do, except BT will also have the option of a second pick in one weekend if Sky pass up, e.g.
1st pick - Sky
2nd pick - Sky pass, so BT forced to use the remaining 2nd pick from package G
3rd pick - Sky
...
Ok so you're suggesting Sky will control when BT get their 14th weekend pick (normally 13) and 1 2nd weekend pick (normally 0). That will keep Sky happy but can't imagine BT being happy with Sky selecting when they take these extra games as Sky will ensure they are as weak as possible.
BT quite right to be annoyed as normally they get 5 rounds where they have 1st and 2nd picks, so Sky don't get much control in these rounds, this season if what you're suggesting is correct they only get 4 such rounds and get a weak 1st and 2nd pick as an alternative, I fully expect them to kick off over this unless this is made very explicitly clear in the rights contract.
Seems odd coming up with such a convoluted alternative when BT could just have been given the 26th Dec or 2nd Jan as a BH round, why make it so complicated?
Can't see that happening at all. The 5 first picks that BT bought for the midweek/BH rounds are primo first picks, that cannot be given to them by Sky but are instead guaranteed to BT. They also come with 2nd picks attached, so it wouldn't just be a case of Sky passing one weekend and letting BT have 1st pick as they'd also need to have 2nd pick that weekend as well.
The Premier League plan these things well in advance and have their schedules designed specifically to give all the TV rights holders what they pay for. I just don't see a scenario whereby the PL scheduled an entire season with only 4 of the 5 midweek/BH rounds allocated. Can you see them only scheduling 4 rounds and then saying to BT, 'you can use the other 1st and 2nd pick on a weekend Sky pass'? I cannot see that, because doing so would massively dilute the package.
Glad it's not just me that thinks this is a crazy idea, but this alternative must have come from somewhere, is there a source?
Would Sky be able to use one of their January 2nd picks on New Year's Day if they wanted to?
Doubt it, if treated as BH round all 3 games normally on the same day, if a normal weekend round games can be Sat, Sun or Monday evening. Friday night games don't start until 2016-17 season.
They don't need to agree anything. The picks would work as they currently do, except BT will also have the option of a second pick in one weekend if Sky pass up, e.g.
1st pick - Sky
2nd pick - Sky pass, so BT forced to use the remaining 2nd pick from package G
3rd pick - Sky
...
I'd be hugely surprised if it was like that as it would significantly weaken that package. BT would go from having guaranteed first two picks of a specified round (which they're able to plan their tight quotas for that package around) to having their games completely dictated by Sky - Sky would obviously hand them the 34th least attractive 2nd pick of the season!
August- September: Next 5 days
October - November: July 6
December: September 17
January: October 19
February: November 17
March: Second working day in January
April: February 3
May: March 23
I can see Sky basically passing all weeks with a big Spurs head to head game in, aside from the opening weekend and any right near the end. Obviously BT can only take 5 of them so Sky might well get Spurs v Man Utd by default.
Comments
I would argue it's no more constrained than a normal weekend followed by a midweek round. The difference is a one day gap between games instead of two. So the following could be done (as an example):
Saturday 26th:
Stoke v Man Utd (12.45)
Southampton v Arsenal (5.30)
Sunday 27th:
Liverpool v Leicester (noon)
Newcastle v Everton (2.10pm)
Man City v Sunderland (4.15pm)
Then the matches involving the six teams playing on Sunday are moved to the evening of Tuesday 29th, or even Wednesday 30th to give BT full flexibility (i.e. it might be that both games they want on the 28th end up on the 29th, so one can also move to the 30th).
26 December and 28 December OR
26 December and 2 January
So if 26th Dec is not the other BH round, are you saying it's Sat 2nd Jan? Assume we all agree 28th Dec is a BH round, as it's actually on a BH.
There will be some late nights for sky team if 5 day turnaround is true because although computer program will be used, will need to be sense checked. Sky of course will need outline season plan in place.
Yes I think that has to be right - which is why I made 26 Dec overall favourite at 90%.
I would be happy to increase that to 95% on reflection!
You're also assuming that the 2nd needs to be a Bank Holiday if the 26th isn't. And we all seem to be assuming there does have to be 5 BH/Midweek rounds. Package G simply says:
There's nothing there about all 10 1st/2nd picks being on midweek or Bank Holiday rounds. Four of each can be used in the definite midweek/Bank Holidays, with the remaining one each being used in a weekend, along with the two fifth picks.
I just find it inconceivable that the Premier League would restrict broadcasters to a total of three games on the weekend of 26th/27th when there's available slots for five games (with some Monday games moved to Tuesday/Wednesday evening).
The only "quasi" double header is with the two Liv/Ev games.
You're missing the point that Package B has 2-3 games on Bank Holidays. So Sky could use two games on the 26 December weekend should they wish to convert a fifth pick into a fourth pick.
Yes - very suspicious!
It clearly states 10 games Midweek and BH, so there must be 5 rounds that fall into this category so there can be 5 1st picks and 5 2nd picks. We know 2 out of 3 of 26th, 28th and 2nd Jan will be assigned Bank Holiday rounds, 28th has so be as it is a bank holiday, I think the other two both have their merits but 26th makes more sense as you can then get all games done on the Saturday so all 28th games can be played on the Monday and you're not mucking around with arranging evening games during Xmas week.
Much easier to spread 5 games 2/3/4th Jan as there is a full week before teams need to play again. It does of course mean BT have over 10% of their seasons Premier league games crammed into just 3 days!
Sky could easily show all at 4pm, but with ashes we could see at least one on mon
And I misread the package, apologies. But that still doesn't mean there's no flexibility for years in which there might be fewer midweek or Bank Holiday rounds.
BT always get 2 1st pick rounds at Xmas there is absolutely no evidence to suggest this is changing this season, Sky get them from next year by the way so will be less of an issue.
So I'm pretty sure BT will get 2 of those 3 rounds, if not it would have to be another round. Are you suggesting BT get 1st and 2nd picks on a random Saturday round on another date, last game of the season?
will be a change for both Mersey derbys to be on sky, as they're not letting them go to BT as a 4th pick
For example - 3rd October (Sat) is England v Australia in the Rugby which is also Everton v Liverpool, and United v Arsenal weekend. Albeit the Rugby starts at 20:00 so impact on any SNF would be minimal.
A quick look comparing means its unlikely any group stage England games wont clash directly, but a possible England QF or Semi Final could clash with a weekend game.
I think using "always" is stretching things a bit, since it's only happened twice previously. Technically correct, but does make it sound like it's happened forever.
I also don't see any evidence to suggest the Premier League will want to essentially sacrifice an entire day (Sunday 27th) and restrict the number of games that can be shown.
No, I just think their spare first picks will be used as normal first picks on a weekend round where Sky passes.
So are you suggesting BT get a 1st and 2nd pick in this alternate weekend? That would weaken Sky as normally when BT have a normal weekend pick at least Sky have all the other picks.
How on earth would they agree a weekend which would represent this extra BH round, random, what if there was another big head to head can't see Sky being happy with that.
It just makes no sense to me that BT's 5th round with a 1st and 2nd pick will be some random weekend, when it could be Boxing day (like usual) or 2nd Jan in lieu of New Year's day.
I really don't see the issue with no games on Sun 27th Dec, you'll get 10 games on the Sat and another 10 on the Monday, 6 to be telivised as BT will have three and Sky usually take two 3rd picks, so I don't think anyone will be complaining about lack of live TV games when there are 6 in 3 days, usually we only get 4 or 5 in a whole week.
If 26th Dec is a normal round and 5 games are picked you'd then have up to 8 games between 26th and 29th/30th which seems too many.
26th and 28th Dec as BT BH games just seems to make most sense and nobody has come up with a viable alternative to suggest this won't happen. Sat 2nd is a slight possibility as a BH round but this makes more sense as a normal weekend round as you can have your normal two Sat games, two Sun games and Monday night game with no knock on effect with any other games which certainly isn't possible if 26th Dec is assigned as a normal round.
Or am I missing something?
They don't need to agree anything. The picks would work as they currently do, except BT will also have the option of a second pick in one weekend if Sky pass up, e.g.
1st pick - Sky
2nd pick - Sky pass, so BT forced to use the remaining 2nd pick from package G
3rd pick - Sky
...
Or
1st pick - Sky pass; BT
2nd pick - Sky pass; BT
3rd pick - Sky
...
Can't see that happening at all. The 5 first picks that BT bought for the midweek/BH rounds are primo first picks, that cannot be given to them by Sky but are instead guaranteed to BT. They also come with 2nd picks attached, so it wouldn't just be a case of Sky passing one weekend and letting BT have 1st pick as they'd also need to have 2nd pick that weekend as well.
The Premier League plan these things well in advance and have their schedules designed specifically to give all the TV rights holders what they pay for. I just don't see a scenario whereby the PL scheduled an entire season with only 4 of the 5 midweek/BH rounds allocated. Can you see them only scheduling 4 rounds and then saying to BT, 'you can use the other 1st and 2nd pick on a weekend Sky pass'? I cannot see that, because doing so would massively dilute the package.
Ok so you're suggesting Sky will control when BT get their 14th weekend pick (normally 13) and 1 2nd weekend pick (normally 0). That will keep Sky happy but can't imagine BT being happy with Sky selecting when they take these extra games as Sky will ensure they are as weak as possible.
BT quite right to be annoyed as normally they get 5 rounds where they have 1st and 2nd picks, so Sky don't get much control in these rounds, this season if what you're suggesting is correct they only get 4 such rounds and get a weak 1st and 2nd pick as an alternative, I fully expect them to kick off over this unless this is made very explicitly clear in the rights contract.
Seems odd coming up with such a convoluted alternative when BT could just have been given the 26th Dec or 2nd Jan as a BH round, why make it so complicated?
Glad it's not just me that thinks this is a crazy idea, but this alternative must have come from somewhere, is there a source?
Doubt it, if treated as BH round all 3 games normally on the same day, if a normal weekend round games can be Sat, Sun or Monday evening. Friday night games don't start until 2016-17 season.
I'd be hugely surprised if it was like that as it would significantly weaken that package. BT would go from having guaranteed first two picks of a specified round (which they're able to plan their tight quotas for that package around) to having their games completely dictated by Sky - Sky would obviously hand them the 34th least attractive 2nd pick of the season!
Broadcast selection announcement dates
August- September: Next 5 days
October - November: July 6
December: September 17
January: October 19
February: November 17
March: Second working day in January
April: February 3
May: March 23