Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 shot down near Ukraine-Russia border

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  • FrankieFixerFrankieFixer Posts: 11,530
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    Bulletguy1 wrote: »
    Who do you think supplied the bulk of Ukraine weaponry including ballistic missiles and missile launchers just to mention a couple of examples?
    The UK ambassador: 'We know that weapons, equipment and logistical support has been systematically provided to armed separatist groups by Russia.'

    He added: 'We urge Russia to cease its policy or supporting armed separatist groups and their violent actions, of destabilising a neighbouring country, of generating displacement and social and economic hardship.

    They are quite obviously getting the help from Russia. To deny that is to fly in the face of reality.
  • Sweet_PrincessSweet_Princess Posts: 11,038
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    I hope none of them on board suffered I just cant imagine the terror if they saw what was happening
  • basdfgbasdfg Posts: 6,764
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    curmy wrote: »
    Well that makes the Rebels look even more guilty doesn't it ? !
    Would there be that much evidence in wreckage which links it directly to the rebels and cant be spun to blame the Ukrainan military/ anybody else.
    Is Putin back in Russia yet. He was in Brazil yesterday.
  • alan29alan29 Posts: 34,639
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    I reckon Putin confessed when he said at his news conference "The people to blame are the people over who's territory it happened."
    It happened over Russian-backed, rebel-controlled territory.
    Bingo!
  • Rick_DavisRick_Davis Posts: 1,104
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    basdfg wrote: »
    Would there be that much evidence in wreckage which links it directly to the rebels and cant be spun to blame the Ukrainan military/ anybody else.

    Evidence may come from forensic investigation of the MH17 fuselage. Boeing aircraft are made from a very specific grade of high grade aluminum, if I remember correctly as my time as a metallurgist a patented rolled aluminum.
    If a SAM exploded in the vicinity there will be evidence of the warhead sticking to the Al fuselage.
  • basdfgbasdfg Posts: 6,764
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    Rick_Davis wrote: »
    Evidence may come from forensic investigation of the MH17 fuselage. Boeing aircraft are made from a very specific grade of high grade aluminum, if I remember correctly as my time as a metallurgist a patented rolled aluminum.
    If a SAM exploded in the vicinity there will be evidence of the warhead sticking to the Al fuselage.
    The Rebels could spin that to say the Ukrainian government fired the missile. How much evidence could they be that cant be spun at all.
    I wonder if Putin actually wants strikes on planes to happen as every strike makes the chance of peace go down and must make people in his government angry( especially business folk)
  • alan29alan29 Posts: 34,639
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    I thought the same BUK system was used by both sides. And the Russians.
  • ElectraElectra Posts: 55,660
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    ecckles wrote: »
    The investigators have been refused admission to the plane crash site by the pro-Russian separatist terrorists, even had shots fired over their heads, latest reports claim that bodies are strewn all over the area, and no attempt has been made to remove them

    Not acting guilty at all then. These people aren't very bright, are they?
  • too_much_coffeetoo_much_coffee Posts: 2,978
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »
    S'funny how there seems to be this symbiotic relationship between RT and newbie journo's, whereby RT loves hiring westerners and the newbie journo's get some proper experience but it seems like only the most gullible or cynical stick with them in the long term.

    Anybody who suggests that outfits like the BBC and CNN are as biased as RT are, frankly, not wired up right.

    RT would be a joke if it wasn't for the fact that some people take it seriously.

    It is Putin / the Kremlin's propaganda machine and it's reporting today has verged on the ridiculous. How amazing that after Ukraine had intercepted phone call between rebels that Russia suddenly had "evidence" of similar between Ukrainians.

    Their coverage has been insensitive in the extreme with very graphic images of the dead - totally unnecessary and distressing for their relatives.

    IMO, best to get news from a combination of BBC, CNN, Sky and Al Jazeera and it's a relatively balanced way to keep informed. RT is quite good if you want news of singing dogs though.......
  • basdfgbasdfg Posts: 6,764
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    RT would be a joke if it wasn't for the fact that some people take it seriously.

    It is Putin / the Kremlin's propaganda machine and it's reporting today has verged on the ridiculous. How amazing that after Ukraine had intercepted phone call between rebels that Russia suddenly had "evidence" of similar between Ukrainians.

    Their coverage has been insensitive in the extreme with very graphic images of the dead - totally unnecessary and distressing for their relatives.

    IMO, best to get news from a combination of BBC, CNN, Sky and Al Jazeera and it's a relatively balanced way to keep informed. RT is quite good if you want news of singing dogs though.......
    Doesn't Al Jazzeera get quite biased during middle conflicts or have I got that wrong.
  • Rick_DavisRick_Davis Posts: 1,104
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    Yes they can then blame each other, but the window of blame narrows.
  • My usernamesMy usernames Posts: 1,002
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    Can you Imagine the terror of the people where the debris landed, human body parts raining down from th clouds onto the roofs of their homes. How do you explain that to your children? It is an abomination.
  • basdfgbasdfg Posts: 6,764
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    Can you Imagine the terror of the people where the debris landed, human body parts raining down from th clouds onto the roofs of their homes. How do you explain that to your children? It is an abomination.
    Hopefully most landed away from homes.
    Was anbody on the ground killed or hurt. Not heard any reports of it.
  • Rick_DavisRick_Davis Posts: 1,104
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    basdfg wrote: »
    Hopefully most landed away from homes.
    Was anbody on the ground killed or hurt. Not heard any reports of it.

    So far there are no reports of people on ground being injured. The bulk of the debris has landed in fields and unoccupied areas.
  • AxtolAxtol Posts: 8,480
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    Christ some of you people are fecking blind. It was obviously pro-Russian separatist terrorists using missiles given to them by Putin! Bloody hell! Admittedly it wad almost certainly an accident in the sense that they probably thought it was a Ukrainian military plane, but firing the actual missile was no accident.

    Funny how Western media comes down like a ton of bricks on Al Assad whenever he calls rebels "terrorists" but there is no action against Ukraine for calling the rebels the same.
  • KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    Electra wrote: »
    Not acting guilty at all then. These people aren't very bright, are they?

    No. As I said a few pages back, they're essentially just peasants. The fact they use mobile phones, own a TV, etc. is irrelevant. Intellectually there's absolutely nothing going on at all. Put them back in the Middle Ages and I'd doubt anyone would be able to spot the different.
  • Rick_DavisRick_Davis Posts: 1,104
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    Axtol wrote: »
    Funny how Western media comes down like a ton of bricks on Al Assad whenever he calls rebels "terrorists" but there is no action against Ukraine for calling the rebels the same.

    Hitting a passenger aircraft at 33K ft is not an act of war, its an international terrorist attack.
  • ElectraElectra Posts: 55,660
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    Rick_Davis wrote: »
    Hitting a passenger aircraft at 33K ft is not an act of war, its an international terrorist attack.

    Only if done in the full knowledge that it's a passenger plane, which doesn't seem to be the case in this instance.
  • AxtolAxtol Posts: 8,480
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    Rick_Davis wrote: »
    Hitting a passenger aircraft at 33K ft is not an act of war, its an international terrorist attack.

    So every time American and British troops accidentally kill civilians it's also a "terrorist attack"? Why can't you accept that accidents happen. In war accidents are always tragic but they are not murder. It depends entirely on what the rebels thought they were firing at if they genuinely believed they were attacking a Ukranian military transport then there is no crime just like America is not punished every time it kills a civilian when trying to hit a legitimate target.
  • late8late8 Posts: 7,175
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    No. As I said a few pages back, they're essentially just peasants. The fact they use mobile phones, own a TV, etc. is irrelevant. Intellectually there's absolutely nothing going on at all. Put them back in the Middle Ages and I'd doubt anyone would be able to spot the different.

    In one of the rebel phonecalls .... one of the retards concludes the passenger plane must have been spies because it was flying over there area.....


    Absolutely no idea of the world.
  • Rob1985Rob1985 Posts: 5,194
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    Electra wrote: »
    Only if done in the full knowledge that it's a passenger plane, which doesn't seem to be the case in this instance.

    What the hell were they shooting at then if not a plane? The clouds?
  • Rick_DavisRick_Davis Posts: 1,104
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    Electra wrote: »
    Only if done in the full knowledge that it's a passenger plane, which doesn't seem to be the case in this instance.

    `International aircraft 'ping' an identification number. Ddo you want to be the guy that ignored the commercial ping?
  • James2001James2001 Posts: 73,657
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    RT would be a joke if it wasn't for the fact that some people take it seriously.

    And you'll find it's mostly the same people who took Press TV seriously before it got yanked off the air!
  • ElectraElectra Posts: 55,660
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    Rob1985 wrote: »
    What the hell were they shooting at then if not a plane? The clouds?

    It seems they thought they were shooting at a Ukranian transport plane.
  • AxtolAxtol Posts: 8,480
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    Rob1985 wrote: »
    What the hell were they shooting at then if not a plane? The clouds?

    You're being deliberately obtuse. The most likely explanation is they knew they were firing at a plane but thought it was a Ukranian military transport and had no idea it was a civilian airliner.
    late8 wrote: »
    In one of the rebel phonecalls .... one of the retards concludes the passenger plane must have been spies because it was flying over there area.....


    Absolutely no idea of the world.

    Have the phonecalls being confirmed to not be doctored?
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