Welsh speaking

Andy23Andy23 Posts: 15,921
Forum Member
✭✭
A question for anyone in Wales. Do young people speak welsh in conversation with their friends and family, or is it mostly something that is learnt at school and hardly ever used.

From my experience, I've only ever heard older people speak welsh in the street/on the bus etc so I was wondering if it is gradually dying out. I have only ever visited North Wales though which I know isn't as welsh as some other parts.
«13456713

Comments

  • hassanhassan Posts: 3,556
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Well I have family in wales, my cousins can't speak welsh although they regret not learning. They've gotten by without it and they've lived there their whole lives
  • Toby LaRhoneToby LaRhone Posts: 12,916
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    When my wife and I met in the 70's she lived 10/11 miles North of Swansea where I lived.
    I knew no one who spoke Welsh in my whole social and family circle.
    All of my wife's family and everyone in her "village" spoke Welsh as their first language.
    Her very young nephews and nieces struggled with English.
    There are many areas in various parts of Wales that retain the language and there are many areas that do not.
    My wife can still speak Welsh but nowhere near as fluently as in her youth as we have lived in about ten locations during our married life
    The great urban myth is often trotted out that if an English speaker walks into pubs in certain parts of Wales the locals immediately revert to Welsh to exclude them.
    I've never experienced that or heard of anyone I know who has.

    Edit: I can "read" Welsh and sound as if I were fluent because I was taught it as a second language at school.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 19
    Forum Member
    I can speak welsh and do with my daughter but not with friends, or family apart from my cousins, in South Wales welsh is spoken in the valleys, but usually if you don't want a townie to know what you're saying, so it's still rare. I think more welsh is spoken in NW wales but have never been :)
  • Pull2OpenPull2Open Posts: 15,138
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I was on holiday in North Wales last week and a large family with children ranging from 7 - 16ish were visiting the same castle as we were and they were all speaking Welsh with each other.

    I thought it was brilliant because until then, I had always thought it was just a token language.
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I've known of people in the North and West of Wales that speak it as a first language among friends and family, but never anybody from the South.

    It's certainly not a 'token' thing though, a huge swathe of people do use it with fluency (and prefer it to English) but in mainly rural and non-touristy areas so most outsiders and tourists never hear it.

    I heard a lot of Welsh being spoken at some rural car boot sales I used to go to near Aberystwyth as well.
  • Welsh-ladWelsh-lad Posts: 51,909
    Forum Member
    It is definitely spoken as a 1st and preferred language (among all generations) in certain parts of Wales. It is strongest in Ceredigion, Carmarthenshire, Gwynedd and Anglesey.

    Also stronger in certain communities e.g. the agricultural community, YFC etc.

    I’m generally sceptical about the rising stats among young Welsh speakers in more anglicized parts of Wales though. In this context it is sometimes the case that they *can* speak the language (owing to Welsh medium education etc) but they *don’t* naturally speak it among their friends/peer group.
    I think the Welsh speaking heartlands of west Wales are very important as there are whole communities there which use the language day to day 
  • phill363phill363 Posts: 24,311
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    In my work we get a lot of Welsh people nipping over the border from North Wales to do their shopping, and a lot of them will have conversations with each other in welsh whilst in the queue. Some of the older ones don't even speak much English and have to get a younger one to translate. Its quite funny sometimes when you hear the odd English word for modern things like Till, Phone, Television and Car. There is some welsh people who I work with who have Welsh Flags on their badges to indicate they speak Welsh.
  • Welsh-ladWelsh-lad Posts: 51,909
    Forum Member
    phill363 wrote: »
    In my work we get a lot of Welsh people nipping over the border from North Wales to do their shopping, and a lot of them will have conversations with each other in welsh whilst in the queue. Some of the older ones don't even speak much English and have to get a younger one to translate. Its quite funny sometimes when you hear the odd English word for modern things like Till, Phone, Television and Car. There is some welsh people who I work with who have Welsh Flags on their badges to indicate they speak Welsh.

    Bit of trivia re. your location.
    Birkenhead had such a strong Welsh-speaking community at the turn of the 20th century that the National Eisteddfod for the whole of Wales was held there in 1917.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkenhead#Arts
  • TakaeTakae Posts: 13,555
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    When do children start learning to speak Welsh at school? Is Welsh a compulsory subject?

    Actually, I wonder the same about Scotland and Northern Ireland with general schools and Gaelic.
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Takae wrote: »
    When do children start learning to speak Welsh at school? Is Welsh a compulsory subject?

    Actually, I wonder the same about Scotland and Northern Ireland with general schools and Gaelic.

    Some schools are 'all-Welsh' schools, others aren't as far as I know. In these schools all lessons are conducted in Welsh and there's no English speaking, from what I understand (except in English lessons).

    My cousins are from the 'cosmopolitan' South of Wales and they went to an all-Welsh school and as a result can speak it fluently as a second language, but they don't use it as they have no call to do so.

    That said it was an advantage to one of my cousins as she was able to appear on a program about make-up on S4C a couple of years ago, although you could tell Welsh wasn't her first language, she spoke it more slowly than the presenters.
  • Welsh-ladWelsh-lad Posts: 51,909
    Forum Member
    Takae wrote: »
    When do children start learning to speak Welsh at school? Is Welsh a compulsory subject?

    Actually, I wonder the same about Scotland and Northern Ireland with general schools and Gaelic.
    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    Some schools are 'all-Welsh' schools, others aren't as far as I know. In these schools all lessons are conducted in Welsh and there's no English speaking, from what I understand (except in English lessons).

    My cousins are from the 'cosmopolitan' South of Wales and they went to an all-Welsh school and as a result can speak it fluently as a second language, but they don't use it as they have no call to do so.

    That said it was an advantage to one of my cousins as she was able to appear on a program about make-up on S4C a couple of years ago, although you could tell Welsh wasn't her first language, she spoke it more slowly than the presenters.

    It's an interesting question, with a complicated answer.
    Welsh lessons are compulsory (as with all core subjects) but the only thing stipulated in the curriculum is that 'pupils must study Welsh up to the age 16.'
    There is no minimum requirement and no compulsion to sit a GCSE in the subject.

    This makes the teaching of it chaotic and disjointed in many schools, with ill-qualified teachers getting 'landed' with the subject, and contact time (in some cases) being a woeful one hour a fortnight.

    So the answer is 'yes' but the requirement is very diluted and inconsistent across the country.
  • phill363phill363 Posts: 24,311
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Welsh-lad wrote: »
    Bit of trivia re. your location.
    Birkenhead had such a strong Welsh-speaking community at the turn of the 20th century that the National Eisteddfod for the whole of Wales was held there in 1917.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkenhead#Arts

    Theirs not many of them around any more living on the Wirral
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Welsh-lad wrote: »
    It's an interesting question, with a complicated answer.
    Welsh lessons are compulsory (as with all core subjects) but the only thing stipulated in the curriculum is that 'pupils must study Welsh up to the age 16.'
    There is no minimum requirement and no compulsion to sit a GCSE in the subject.

    This makes the teaching of it chaotic and disjointed in many schools, with ill-qualified teachers getting 'landed' with the subject, and contact time (in some cases) being a woeful one hour a fortnight.

    So the answer is 'yes' but the requirement is very diluted and inconsistent across the country.

    Do you know how ordinary it is for kids to go to 'all-Welsh' schools like my cousins, where every lesson is in Welsh?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 155
    Forum Member
    I have certainly encountered the situation where people revert to Welsh when they know you are English. We went into a café in Snowdonia last year and there were a group happily chatting away in English. As soon as we spoke and they heard our accents they reverted to Welsh, seemingly automatically.

    We were on a cruise last summer and went to breakfast where you were seated with other couples at a table for 6. We realised that the other two couples, who didn't know each other, were both Welsh, and once the introductions were done, they quickly reverted to Welsh for the rest of the meal, even though their first language was quite obviously English, thus excluding us from the normal conversation you get on cruise ships. It was the height of ignorance, and these instances ensure that, wherever possible, we now avoid sharing tables with Welsh people.
  • Welsh-ladWelsh-lad Posts: 51,909
    Forum Member
    phill363 wrote: »
    Theirs not many of them around any more living on the Wirral

    Yeah it's dwindled considerably now though my friend (who's from Flint originally) does hear Welsh in Liverpool on occasion.

    And I've heard Welsh in Chester and Shrewsbury every time I've been :D
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
    Forum Member
    The great urban myth is often trotted out that if an English speaker walks into pubs in certain parts of Wales the locals immediately revert to Welsh to exclude them.
    I've never experienced that or heard of anyone I know who has.

    I was at uni in Bangor for a year, and it did sometimes happen, but rarely (and not in pubs). The worst people for it were (perhaps slightly unsurprisingly, although that's a bit of a stereotype) old women and teenage girls.
  • Welsh-ladWelsh-lad Posts: 51,909
    Forum Member
    I have certainly encountered the situation where people revert to Welsh when they know you are English. We went into a café in Snowdonia last year and there were a group happily chatting away in English. As soon as we spoke and they heard our accents they reverted to Welsh, seemingly automatically.

    We were on a cruise last summer and went to breakfast where you were seated with other couples at a table for 6. We realised that the other two couples, who didn't know each other, were both Welsh, and once the introductions were done, they quickly reverted to Welsh for the rest of the meal, even though their first language was quite obviously English, thus excluding us from the normal conversation you get on cruise ships. It was the height of ignorance, and these instances ensure that, wherever possible, we now avoid sharing tables with Welsh people.

    Fantastic. Was wondering when this requisite anecdote would be trotted out.

    Yeah it's not a real language you know. No-one ever speaks it naturally, god forbid.
    It's solely used as a code to baffle English people .

    Your presence was so monumental and they found you so utterly fascinating that they had to switch languages just in case you heard them talk about you.
    It was the height of ignorance, and these instances ensure that, wherever possible, we now avoid sharing tables with Welsh people
    :D:D:D Breathtaking - the best ironic post I've read on here in years.
  • RobinOfLoxleyRobinOfLoxley Posts: 27,040
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    The great urban myth is often trotted out that if an English speaker walks into pubs in certain parts of Wales the locals immediately revert to Welsh to exclude them.
    I've never experienced that or heard of anyone I know who has.

    Edit: I can "read" Welsh and sound as if I were fluent because I was taught it as a second language at school.

    Not an Urban Myth, we were in Fishguard once, on a dismal day, in a dismal town, and a group of youngsters immediately switched to Welsh when we went into an otherwise deserted pub for lunch.
    But they got their comeuppance when a friend joined them a few minutes later who couldn't speak Welsh and they had to revert back again. We smirked at their embarrassment.


    But, funny how things go, my younger teenage daughter, who is English and spent most of her life in England,has ended up in South Wales over last 3 years,
    Welsh was compulsory and she has just gained a B at GCSE in it. And she can do a wicked Welsh spoof accent now too. I am very proud.
  • phill363phill363 Posts: 24,311
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Welsh-lad wrote: »
    Yeah it's dwindled considerably now though my friend (who's from Flint originally) does hear Welsh in Liverpool on occasion.

    And I've heard Welsh in Chester and Shrewsbury every time I've been :D

    I guess if you are in the north there's not much options for a good town for shopping besides maybe Bangor or Wrexham so a lot of welsh people must cross the border
  • Welsh-ladWelsh-lad Posts: 51,909
    Forum Member
    Not an Urban Myth, we were in Fishguard once, on a dismal day, in a dismal town, and a group of youngsters immediately switched to Welsh when we went into a deserted pub for lunch.
    But they got their comeuppance when a friend joined them a few minutes later who couldn't speak Welsh and they had to revert back again. We smirked at their embarrassment.

    If true, what of it? Why were you eavesdropping on a group of youngsters?

    Urban myth or not, the interesting thing in all these alleged accounts is that people are affronted when they can't understand what is being discussed by a group of people wholly unconnected with them in a public place.
    Mind your own business, or go to a pub/café with group of friends who aren't so interminably boring that you have to listen in on the conversations of others in order to keep yourself awake.

    edit: sorry for shooting off, but trying to defend one's use of one's language in one's own country gets grating after a while.
  • Chris MarkChris Mark Posts: 4,897
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Not an Urban Myth, we were in Fishguard once, on a dismal day, in a dismal town, and a group of youngsters immediately switched to Welsh when we went into an otherwise deserted pub for lunch.
    But they got their comeuppance when a friend joined them a few minutes later who couldn't speak Welsh and they had to revert back again. We smirked at their embarrassment.


    But, funny how things go, my younger teenage daughter, who is English and spent most of her life in England,has ended up in South Wales over last 3 years,
    Welsh was compulsory and she has just gained a B at GCSE in it. And she can do a wicked Welsh spoof accent now too. I am very proud.

    I wouldn't smirk at it, I don't see anything funny about it at all. Even if they deliberately switched to Welsh in my presence that's their business and I wouldn't give a toss.
  • Chris MarkChris Mark Posts: 4,897
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Welsh-lad wrote: »
    If true, what of it? Why were you eavesdropping on a group of youngsters?

    Urban myth or not, the interesting thing in all these alleged accounts is that people are affronted when they can't understand what is being discussed by a group of people wholly unconnected with them in a public place.
    Mind your own business, or go to a pub/café with group of friends who aren't so interminably boring that you have to listen in on the conversations of others in order to keep yourself awake.

    edit: sorry for shooting off, but trying to defend one's use of one's language in one's own country gets grating after a while.


    Well said.
  • Paul237Paul237 Posts: 8,654
    Forum Member
    Welsh-lad wrote: »
    Yeah it's dwindled considerably now though my friend (who's from Flint originally) does hear Welsh in Liverpool on occasion.

    And I've heard Welsh in Chester and Shrewsbury every time I've been :D

    Really?! I've never heard it spoken in Shrewsbury before. I was actually there today as it happens. :D I guess I don't listen very hard haha. :p
  • RobinOfLoxleyRobinOfLoxley Posts: 27,040
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    It certainly is true and it's hard not to eavesdrop in a tiny pub when they are on a table only 6 feet from you , no other customers apart from them and us.

    Have you been to Fishguard? It really is awful (or was). And I hope I don't offend anyone from there, they may agree.
  • Paul237Paul237 Posts: 8,654
    Forum Member
    I'm English and, to be honest, I can kind of understand a Welsh family switching to Welsh if in a restaurant. Let's face it, we all discuss things at dinner which is between the people at the table and isn't anyone else's concern... so it just seems natural to me to make your conversation more private if you can.

    It's not like they're talking about you. :p
Sign In or Register to comment.