Apple getting desperate

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  • whoever,heywhoever,hey Posts: 30,992
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    kidspud wrote: »
    The hiding it comment is in relation to stiggles comment.

    I just do not see a tablet as a sharing device, I see it like I do a phone, a personal device.

    Each to their own.

    Each to their own then. We dont take our tablet out of the house, so its a family asset, unlike a phone.
  • calico_piecalico_pie Posts: 10,060
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    For your information, if you attach a keyboard to a Surface Pro tablet it is actually a laptop.

    Yes - that's the entire point.

    The original comparison was the one MS drew between a tablet (Asus?) and the iPad.
  • calico_piecalico_pie Posts: 10,060
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    Stiggles wrote: »
    I never posted it.

    You cant possibly know what everyone wants or does :confused:

    Oh wait, there's the 'i would wager' bit again, so just guess work then?

    Serious design work cant be done as there really is no suitable app or program to do so yet. Using a tablet with a full OS on it and not a hobbled one should make it much better in time.

    No. But never mind.

    I asked you whether you see tablets staying as they are or getting better. Still you haven't answered.

    Faster, more powerful, able to run much more powerful programs than they can now. Everything evolves or do you disagree with that?

    What 'inherent' problems? I have a 10" Samsung notebook and a 15" Samsung notebook and i can do exactly the same on both. On the 10" i did a PP presentation for training and a weekly list of guests and functions on it.

    I fail to see your point here.

    Sorry, that Swordman posted.

    I can't possibly know what everyone wants or does. But given how popular the ipad has been, I can have a good idea that most people don't seem too out off by the lack of something like Power Point or the same sort of multiple tasking that they'd get on a laptop or desktop.

    "No. But never mind."? Actually, yes.

    I'm sure tablets will get better. But those improvements aren't going to involve them having physical keyboards and larger screens, which are the inherent factors that make tablets less good for certain tasks.

    You could stick a physical keyboard and a larger screen on a tablet. But if you did, it would be a laptop.
  • alanwarwicalanwarwic Posts: 28,396
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    On that same subject of how popular stuff has been I'm sure the new EU probe is inspired by the fact that networks are struggling to make iPhone's pay.

    I'm sure the subjects of 'crippling of features per region' and 'preferred nation' questionnaire stuff was created with the help of whispering network employees.

    http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9239542/Report_EU_investigating_Apple_39_s_iPhone_agreements_with_mobile_operators
    I'm not sure if the 'always at the top' subsidising of Apple is forward,reverse looking or both.

    Crippling of the devices in various ways are fine with me, but it should really be differentiated in large print rather than via stealth, so as to help the discerning consumer decide.
    I'd say the same about removal of Android features.
  • kidspudkidspud Posts: 18,341
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    alanwarwic wrote: »
    On that same subject of how popular stuff has been I'm sure the new EU probe is inspired by the fact that networks are struggling to make iPhone's pay.

    I'm sure the subjects of 'crippling of features per region' and 'preferred nation' questionnaire stuff was created with the help of whispering network employees.

    http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9239542/Report_EU_investigating_Apple_39_s_iPhone_agreements_with_mobile_operators
    I'm not sure if the 'always at the top' subsidising of Apple is forward,reverse looking or both.

    Crippling of the devices in various ways are fine with me, but it should really be differentiated in large print rather than via stealth, so as to help the discerning consumer decide.
    I'd say the same about removal of Android features.

    When you say you are sure, I assume as usual it means you are guessing?
  • alanwarwicalanwarwic Posts: 28,396
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    kidspud wrote: »
    When you say you are sure, I assume as usual it means you are guessing?
    So why else did the networks start to whisper?

    Can't you ever move forwards from attacking the messenger?
    That ain't debate.
  • StigglesStiggles Posts: 9,618
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    calico_pie wrote: »
    Sorry, that Swordman posted.

    I can't possibly know what everyone wants or does. But given how popular the ipad has been, I can have a good idea that most people don't seem too out off by the lack of something like Power Point or the same sort of multiple tasking that they'd get on a laptop or desktop.

    No you can have a guess as always. Not a good idea which you like to think you have. AGain this comes down to the 'im always right, everyone else is wrong' attitude you have on here.

    They aren't put out/off because you cant do it yet. Well you can now with the windows one, but as the feature becomes more common and tablets get more powerful, people will use it.
    "No. But never mind."? Actually, yes.

    Actually, no. There are precious few on here that agree with your odd view point. 2 i can count.
    I'm sure tablets will get better. But those improvements aren't going to involve them having physical keyboards and larger screens, which are the inherent factors that make tablets less good for certain tasks.

    Why do you keep touting this absolute rubbish about inherent faults like screen size? Its not an issue for me therefore it cannot be inherent. Wrong word anyway but never mind...I can do everything i can on my 10" laptop that i can do on my 15" one.

    You could stick a physical keyboard and a larger screen on a tablet. But if you did, it would be a laptop.[/QUOTE]

    No it wouldn't be. It would be a tablet with a keyboard :confused:

    So you are saying the windows tablets with the click on and off keyboards are laptops. Attach a keyboard on an ipad its a laptop now is it? Nonsense again.
  • StigglesStiggles Posts: 9,618
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    kidspud wrote: »
    When you say you are sure, I assume as usual it means you are guessing?

    Like most on here then?!
  • paulbrockpaulbrock Posts: 16,632
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    Stiggles wrote: »

    So you are saying the windows tablets with the click on and off keyboards are laptops. Attach a keyboard on an ipad its a laptop now is it? Nonsense again.

    And the ASUS transformer range...
  • StigglesStiggles Posts: 9,618
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    paulbrock wrote: »
    And the ASUS transformer range...

    Oh yeah forgot about them! Good tablets. But they aren't laptops!
  • calico_piecalico_pie Posts: 10,060
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    Stiggles wrote: »
    No you can have a guess as always. Not a good idea which you like to think you have. AGain this comes down to the 'im always right, everyone else is wrong' attitude you have on here.

    They aren't put out/off because you cant do it yet. Well you can now with the windows one, but as the feature becomes more common and tablets get more powerful, people will use it.

    Actually, no. There are precious few on here that agree with your odd view point. 2 i can count.

    Why do you keep touting this absolute rubbish about inherent faults like screen size? Its not an issue for me therefore it cannot be inherent. Wrong word anyway but never mind...I can do everything i can on my 10" laptop that i can do on my 15" one.

    You could stick a physical keyboard and a larger screen on a tablet. But if you did, it would be a laptop.

    We are both posting opinions.

    I don't know why you're trying to say that I have some 'I'm always right' attitude, any more than you do.

    So to be clear, you are free to post any opinions you like, that disagree with me, or anyone else, and that's all perfectly fine...

    But if I, or anyone else, post any opinions that disagree with you, then I, or anyone else, must have some sort of 'im always right, everyone else is wrong' attitude?

    Bit of an odd double standard you have there I think.

    How exactly would you like me to post anything that disagrees with you? Or is disagreeing with you simply not possible, without having that attitude? :confused:

    As for the number of people agreeing with me... Well, so far the number of people disagreeing with me is 1, ie you.

    Assuming that everyone who hasn't actively agreed, must therefore disagree is a logical fallacy.

    I'm not saying people won't use something, at all. But the fact is that for many tasks, there is an inherent advantage in having a larger display. That is not rubbish, and I don't know why you would dispute that much.

    But if other people do disagree with the bit in bold above, then feel free to say so....

    With the laptop thing you're taking it too literally. If the flaw of tablets is the lack of physical keyboard, then the addition of a physical keyboard, to all practical intent and purpose, it is a laptop.

    If you like, we could change "laptop" for "screen + physical keyboard", which seems to accurately describe both "laptop" and "tablet with a physical keyboard".

    It's a moot point anyway, as the MS ad is talking about a tablet without a physical keyboard.
  • StigglesStiggles Posts: 9,618
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    calico_pie wrote: »
    We are both posting opinions.

    I don't know why you're trying to say that I have some 'I'm always right' attitude, any more than you do.

    So to be clear, you are free to post any opinions you like, that disagree with me, or anyone else, and that's all perfectly fine...

    But if I, or anyone else, post any opinions that you don't like, then I, or anyone else, then comes down to an 'im always right, everyone else is wrong' attitude?

    Bit of an odd double standard you have there I think.

    As for the number of people agreeing with me... Well, so far the number of people disagreeing with me is 1, ie you.

    I'm not saying people won't use something, at all. But the fact is that for many tasks, there is an inherent advantage in having a larger display. That is not rubbish, and I don't know why you would dispute that much.

    But if other people do disagree with that, then I invite them to say so....

    With the laptop thing you're taking it too literally. If the flaw of tablets is the lack of physical keyboard, then the addition of a physical keyboard, to all practical intent and purpose, it is a laptop.

    It's a moot point anyway, as the MS ad is talking about a tablet without a physical keyboard.

    Of course a larger display is better, but you keep harping on saying a 10" display cant be used for anything decent which i completely disagree with. Its not an inherent problem and it is rubbish since i have said 3 times now i do the same on a 10" display as i do a 15"!! But you keep ignoring that point don't you? What you mean is, it's a problem to YOU. You again have no idea if it's a problem for anyone else. Guess work does not mean you are right.

    Its not a moot point as that same tablet actually comes with a physical keyboard.

    I'm taking nothing literally at all. A tablet with a keyboard is not a laptop of any sort.

    Throughout these forums, in most discussions, the amount that always to agree with you is 2.
  • calico_piecalico_pie Posts: 10,060
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    Stiggles wrote: »
    Of course a larger display is better, but you keep harping on saying a 10" display cant be used for anything decent which i completely disagree with. Its not an inherent problem and it is rubbish since i have said 3 times now i do the same on a 10" display as i do a 15"!! But you keep ignoring that point don't you? What you mean is, it's a problem to YOU. You again have no idea if it's a problem for anyone else. Guess work does not mean you are right.

    Its not a moot point as that same tablet actually comes with a physical keyboard.

    I'm taking nothing literally at all. A tablet with a keyboard is not a laptop of any sort.

    Throughout these forums, in most discussions, the amount that always to agree with you is 2.

    Show me where I said a smaller screen "can't be used" for some things?

    What I said was:

    "I'm not convinced, because I just don't think tablets can ever be as good as a laptop or desktop for many things.

    Basically desktops, laptops, tablets and smartphones each have their pros and cons. Often the one that is better at one thing, will be worse at another. The idea that any one of them will ever be as good at everything another is, just isn't going to happen."

    Only in your world would "not as good as" be interpreted as "can't be used".

    You seem to do this sort of thing a lot, but I don't know why.

    I don't care how many people actively agree with me. It doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't disagrees.
  • StigglesStiggles Posts: 9,618
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    calico_pie wrote: »
    Show me where I said a smaller screen "can't be used" for some things?

    What I said was:

    "I'm not convinced, because I just don't think tablets can ever be as good as a laptop or desktop for many things.

    What you originally said was:-
    I would wager that most people would disagree that a tablet is as good as a laptop or desktop for word processing, and certainly not serious design work, simply because they are things that benefit from a larger screen.

    So in that you state it cant be used for serious design work and you use guess work to think what everyone else wants which is what my issue with you is. You use your opinion as fact.
    Basically desktops, laptops, tablets and smartphones each have their pros and cons. Often the one that is better at one thing, will be worse at another. The idea that any one of them will ever be as good at everything another is, just isn't going to happen."

    Only in your world would "not as good as" be interpreted as "can't be used".

    You seem to do this sort of thing a lot, but I don't know why.

    I don't care how many people actively agree with me. It doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't disagrees.

    Haha! I do it a lot? And you don't?

    Ok, you claimed smaller screens aren't as good, basically saying its pointless using them. Same thing really at the end of the day. So i said i use a 10" for PP and WP which you STILL ignore!!

    Debating with you is painful as you refuse point blank to answer questions, give your opinion as fact constantly and just refuse to see another side.

    I'm done with you. Like dealing with a bloody child.....
  • calico_piecalico_pie Posts: 10,060
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    Stiggles wrote: »
    What you originally said was:-

    So in that you state it cant be used for serious design work and you use guess work to think what everyone else wants which is what my issue with you is. You use your opinion as fact.

    Haha! I do it a lot? And you don't?

    Ok, you claimed smaller screens aren't as good, basically saying its pointless using them. Same thing really at the end of the day. So i said i use a 10" for PP and WP which you STILL ignore!!

    Debating with you is painful as you refuse point blank to answer questions, give your opinion as fact constantly and just refuse to see another side.

    I'm done with you. Like dealing with a bloody child.....

    No - that's not what I originally said. I already quoted what I originally said.

    But even the bit you quoted, didn't you read it?

    It says:

    "I would wager that most people would disagree that a tablet is as good as a laptop or desktop for word processing, and certainly not serious design work, simply because they are things that benefit from a larger screen."

    "Not as good as" is not the same as "can't be used".

    I don't think I repeatedly misinterpret what people say, no.

    And what is all this stuff about "give my opinion as fact" anyway?

    Do we all really need to add "in my opinion" to everything?

    And when I say "we", I assume you mean "me", as I don't see you doing it.
  • calico_piecalico_pie Posts: 10,060
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    Stiggles wrote: »
    Ok, you claimed smaller screens aren't as good, basically saying its pointless using them. Same thing really at the end of the day. So i said i use a 10" for PP and WP which you STILL ignore!!

    I really don't get this.

    I said that smaller screens aren't as good as larger screens for many things.

    Saying you use smaller screens for some of those things doesn't change that fact.

    And on the subject of answering straight questions, do you agree or disagree with this statement?

    Smaller screens aren't as good as larger screens for many things."

    Although you might be busy picking up all those toys you've just thrown out of your pram. :p
  • alanwarwicalanwarwic Posts: 28,396
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    [QUOTE=calico_pie;66094509"I would wager that most people would disagree that a tablet is as good as a laptop or desktop for word processing, and certainly not serious design work, simply because they are things that benefit from a larger screen.[/QUOTE]Fat fingers penalise many things.


    However tablets are where voice is meant to comes into its own.
    Dictating ones work is the far more attractive option, even with some rather gimmicky app naming conventions.
  • calico_piecalico_pie Posts: 10,060
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    I'm not convinced in my opinion that dictating instead of writing or designing will, in my opinion, necessarily make up for the smaller screen.

    But that's just in my opinion.
  • alanwarwicalanwarwic Posts: 28,396
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    kidspud wrote: »
    When you say you are sure, I assume as usual it means you are guessing?
    Elementary.
    Guess what son?

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d82487f4-c609-11e2-99d1-00144feab7de.html

    "The inquiry is spurred by private complaints from mobile operators "

    Interestingly that they appear to be asking some 'technical' questions that leave more than a few of us puzzled.
  • StigglesStiggles Posts: 9,618
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    calico_pie wrote: »
    I really don't get this.

    I said that smaller screens aren't as good as larger screens for many things.

    Saying you use smaller screens for some of those things doesn't change that fact.

    And on the subject of answering straight questions, do you agree or disagree with this statement?

    Smaller screens aren't as good as larger screens for many things."

    Although you might be busy picking up all those toys you've just thrown out of your pram. :p

    You really don't get many things do you?

    What are you rambling on about now? I have already said many times i disagree with your biased opinions on here. So i have answered them...

    No toys thrown out the pram at all. I just cant be arsed arguing with someone who constantly shifts the goalposts to suit his own needs, answers questions with questions and pretty much ignores what people say over and over again.

    Simple as that really. Waste of time.
  • calico_piecalico_pie Posts: 10,060
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    What bias there is in the statement:

    "Smaller screens aren't as good as larger screens for many things."

    Is it an anti small screen bias?

    It's hardly rambling - it's a very specific statement.

    I didn't shift any goalposts. It was you who misinterpreted "not as good" as "can't be used".

    I have no idea how or why you've managed to turn it into such a big deal.

    And yes - you are coming across as unnecessarily aggressive.
  • alanwarwicalanwarwic Posts: 28,396
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    calico_pie wrote: »
    What bias there is in the statement:

    "Smaller screens aren't as good as larger screens for many things."

    Too right, You can very much hold in one hand all the advantages of small screens.
  • StigglesStiggles Posts: 9,618
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    calico_pie wrote: »
    What bias there is in the statement:

    "Smaller screens aren't as good as larger screens for many things."

    Is it an anti small screen bias?

    It's hardly rambling - it's a very specific statement.

    I didn't shift any goalposts. It was you who misinterpreted "not as good" as "can't be used".

    I have no idea how or why you've managed to turn it into such a big deal.

    And yes - you are coming across as unnecessarily aggressive.

    lol Aggressive now?

    I had said soon tablets will be able to do things a laptop can do. MS seem to be kickstarting this. You disagreed citing your opinion that they have an apparent inherent fault being small screens. I disagreed saying I use a 10" laptop/notebook to do PP things, WP etc which you ignored several times.

    I'm making no big deal about it, only answering back at you and disagreeing they have an inherent problem. It's a problem to you, not everyone which you don't seem to be accepting.
  • alanwarwicalanwarwic Posts: 28,396
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    Stiggles wrote: »
    MS seem to be kickstarting this.

    I thought it was google docs, maps and mail that did that years ago.

    Though we also had Pocket Word and such like for Windows CE many years before this Google stuff.
  • alan1302alan1302 Posts: 6,336
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    alanwarwic wrote: »
    I thought it was google docs, maps and mail that did that years ago.

    Though we also had Pocket Word and such like for Windows CE many years before this Google stuff.

    No, MS has always been the big name in presentations and word processing and spreadsheets and they push it with their Surface tablets.
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