That happened in the "Last Night" short. They were going somewhere together and he said to a past version of him that this was the night before she goes to the library.
Also - on a practical basis - if she is a ghost , then Alex Kingston can film a scene anywhere against a green screen and they insert her via CGI.
All Movie TV and effects studios have green screens, so they can hire one for an hour or two and get all her scenes in the can in no time.
That means they are not hampered by her "availability" to shoot scenes with the other actors.
Clever Moffatt !!
But she's gone. That pretty much seemed to be the whole point of that scene. The idea that he put her into the library was his own selfishness because he can't deal with endings and she didn't want that. She wanted him to say goodbye and let her go which he did. Hence the final 'goodbye sweetie'. That was the very end of River.
He could go back and see a younger her but he won't. Never on purpose anyway. He's drawn a line under that.
But she's gone. That pretty much seemed to be the whole point of that scene. The idea that he put her into the library was his own selfishness because he can't deal with endings and she didn't want that. She wanted him to say goodbye and let her go which he did. Hence the final 'goodbye sweetie'. That was the very end of River.
He could go back and see a younger her but he won't. Never on purpose anyway. He's drawn a line under that.
It was probably the end of River. As River has proven, when it comes to her, nothing is certain or quite as it seems, so I don't think the door is entirely closed. It never will be so long as she's still in that computer, and she'll be there forever. So you can't say for a fact that she's gone entirely, but that also doesn't mean she'll return.
And I don't think we're likely to see her again. She's not as permanently gone as Amy and Rory, but her story's gone pretty much as far as it can go. I would only expect to see her again at the most in a memory/vision when the Doctor regenerates again. I certainly don't think she'll be in the 50th.
It never will be so long as she's still in that computer, and she'll be there forever.
Is she though? I got the impression that she'd basically escaped the library in this via her conscious piggy backing with Clara's. She certainly didn't seem happy with her fate and when she vanished I got the impression that it was for good (the Doctor tells her that there's a time to live and a time to sleep, that she's an echo and should have already faded, she agrees but tells him he must say goodbye first). Which seems right because I don't think River would want the life given to her in the library - its not who she is.
I thought the doctor told her his name in the wedding of riversong?
No, the whole point of that episode was that he didn't actually tell her his name, he told her to look into his eye and she saw the Doctor inside, and so realised she was marrying and about to kill a Tessalecta Doctor and that the Doctor was going to escape and not actually be dead.
That's how she could explain it all to Amy at the end.
But she's gone. That pretty much seemed to be the whole point of that scene. The idea that he put her into the library was his own selfishness because he can't deal with endings and she didn't want that. She wanted him to say goodbye and let her go which he did. Hence the final 'goodbye sweetie'. That was the very end of River.
He could go back and see a younger her but he won't. Never on purpose anyway. He's drawn a line under that.
This surely brings it all full circle - first lines back in 2008 were 'Hello Sweetie', so her last lines are quite fitting
River Song
2008-2013 (though not necessarily in that order, lol)
Of course it is. How can "Spoilers" on her possibly still existing be her final episode?
She was talking about the fact that if she was still there then Clara must still somehow be alive. When the Doctor asked how that was possible she said 'spoilers'. I actually don't think River had any idea how Clara was still alive but she wasn't going to leave the Doctor without saying that one last time
I hope not as I love the character. Admittedly I wouldn't be surprised if this was the end tho.
With River you never can tell. It's like Vastra introducing River to Clara, saying they haven't met. It wouldn't be the first time she's lied or not told the whole story (like meeting Amy in The Time Of Angels). She gets that from her Husband.......
Of course it is. How can "Spoilers" on her possibly still existing be her final episode?
Because it's River Song, it wouldn't be right if she didn't say 'spoilers'!
It wasn't meant to be taken literally, it was a hint to the Doctor that somehow Clara was still alive, even if River herself didn't quite understand how (saying 'spoilers' saved her from having to give an explanation, and it was always going to be the Doctor's job to rescue Clara anyway), and it got the Doctor's attention when he'd clearly thought Clara was gone.
Excellent point!
Although I have to admit, I am tiring of River slightly. She's a great character, but where the hell did last night fit into her timeline? I lost track of it all after the convulted wedding episode - I thought river's first "appearance" if you will was in Let's Kill Hitler. I get rather confused after that if I'm honest.
I think that the way their scene was handeled was perfect....almost had me i ntears it was so powerful...it brought it a REAL full circle...which i had hoped...i didnt want her final moments to be with 10 it HAD to be with 11 which i presumed was the reason he was Post-Library River in this episode...so we have seen her definite goodbye...she in her timeline will never ever see the Doctor again...and she got her final kiss from him.
But i do presume that due to it all being timey wimey....the 50th may see her cameo and series 8 will see a storyline (maybe an epic finale) to have her featured....11/Clara/River in a storyline...perhaps with the Patermoster Trio again would be something all kinds of epic!
Plus
- Picnic
- New haircut
- the doctors name revealed to River
needs to happen at some point too....so it still bodes well...i adore her character and would love her to be featured again....maybe also have Jack back in a storyline too with her
Actually from what I understood this has already happened in the Doctor's timeline somewhere between TATM and The Snowmen.
Back in the Snowmen Vastra tells Victorian Clara: "But he suffered losses which hurt him. Now he prefers isolation to the possibility of pain's return."
Note that she used plural when refering to the losses. Yes, she might have been refering to Amy/Rory in plural, but would that be enough to send the Doctor over the brink? I mean the last time we saw him before the Snowmen at the end of TATM he is clearly struggling, but still seems to be relatively okay when talking to River. I always had a suspicion that something more happened between TATM and the Snowmen to lead him to the way he was in that episode.
And I think I had my suspicion kinda confirmed last night, because during that conference call Madame Vastra asks River bewildered "He still never contacted you?", which to me suggest that River was indeed already dead when the Vastra/Jenny/Strax were taking care of him in Victorian London and that her death was part of what lead the Doctor to require their help in the first place.
I think u need too face the fact River is gone. There's no where else for her character too go and once they got "married" that was pretty much the end of the chracter
I didn't see that as River's last ever appearance. It was certainly set post 'Silence In The Library', and served as a beautiful appendices to her 'death' there; but she & the Doctor appear to one another chronologically, completely out of order.
From River's standpoint, that may well be their last ever encounter. But from the Doctor's perspective, he may still bump into her (at earlier points in her time stream) hundreds more times.
From River's standpoint, that may well be their last ever encounter. But from the Doctor's perspective, he may still bump into her (at earlier points in her time stream) hundreds more times.
That's the thing though - I don't think he has any intention of seeing her again. He doesn't want to. He's accepted the 'ending' now and can move on.
if he bumps into her again I suspect it'll be entirely accidental and he won't be at all pleased or comfortable.
That's the thing though - I don't think he has any intention of seeing her again. He doesn't want to. He's accepted the 'ending' now and can move on.
I understood it as possibly River moving on, she's been around to help the Doctor but he has his friends Madame Vastra, Jenny, Strax and Clara to help him. River does tend to just come and go, finding her own way around. So quite funny for the Doctor to say "'see you around"
She may be still linked to Clara so if Clara mentions "spoilers"
I thought about it today and it does see likely that this is the end of River. If you think about it, the Doctor didn't want to see her because he didn't want to say goodbye. So what happened? River called for him, he ignored the call, and Ten and Donna picked it up instead. Thus starting their entire relationship; it's a bit of a paradox because they only met in the first place because he ignored her call. There would be no point visiting the character pre library now that we've seen her post library. I just wish she'd had an episode of her own for her goodbye, not an episode about Trenzalore and 8.5.
Although TNOTD wasn't very clear, the River seen in the episode must be the 'post library' version saved in the database. It would make sense that see was 'sleeping'.
I took her comments about The Doctor not saying goodbye to mean he hasn't tried to communicate with her in her 'saved' state.
There's no reason why couldn't see River again from a pre-library era.
I am a diehard River fan, but I doubt there will be another farewell scene. We know the general story: where they went, how he cried, and then gave her his screwdriver. Part of me would like to see that, but realistically, I can understand that it wouldn't add anything to the series. And from past experience, I know it would be almost impossible to create something that would capture what we want to see. The Doctor doesn't like goodbyes, so I doubt we would find their last meeting to be very satisfying.
So, instead we got a different farewell scene, one that captured the relationship between the two characters perfectly, in my opinion. One that showed just how much the Doctor cared for her, and one that allowed the Doctor to say goodbye in the only way he could.
River knew the Doctor better than anyone. When he asked her how he could say goodbye, she found a way for him to do it, without really saying goodbye, at all, thus helping him let go of her as much as allowing her to fade away. I think it fit their relationship as well as it possibly could.
that better not be the end of river she needs a bigger send off shes also my favourite recurring character
it didnt feel right if that really is the end of her-i know it was away for him to say goodbye but what happend to looking after him as she promised amy she would do one series later and shes gone?
Comments
But she's gone. That pretty much seemed to be the whole point of that scene. The idea that he put her into the library was his own selfishness because he can't deal with endings and she didn't want that. She wanted him to say goodbye and let her go which he did. Hence the final 'goodbye sweetie'. That was the very end of River.
He could go back and see a younger her but he won't. Never on purpose anyway. He's drawn a line under that.
It was probably the end of River. As River has proven, when it comes to her, nothing is certain or quite as it seems, so I don't think the door is entirely closed. It never will be so long as she's still in that computer, and she'll be there forever. So you can't say for a fact that she's gone entirely, but that also doesn't mean she'll return.
And I don't think we're likely to see her again. She's not as permanently gone as Amy and Rory, but her story's gone pretty much as far as it can go. I would only expect to see her again at the most in a memory/vision when the Doctor regenerates again. I certainly don't think she'll be in the 50th.
Is she though? I got the impression that she'd basically escaped the library in this via her conscious piggy backing with Clara's. She certainly didn't seem happy with her fate and when she vanished I got the impression that it was for good (the Doctor tells her that there's a time to live and a time to sleep, that she's an echo and should have already faded, she agrees but tells him he must say goodbye first). Which seems right because I don't think River would want the life given to her in the library - its not who she is.
No, the whole point of that episode was that he didn't actually tell her his name, he told her to look into his eye and she saw the Doctor inside, and so realised she was marrying and about to kill a Tessalecta Doctor and that the Doctor was going to escape and not actually be dead.
That's how she could explain it all to Amy at the end.
This surely brings it all full circle - first lines back in 2008 were 'Hello Sweetie', so her last lines are quite fitting
River Song
2008-2013 (though not necessarily in that order, lol)
Of course it is. How can "Spoilers" on her possibly still existing be her final episode?
She was talking about the fact that if she was still there then Clara must still somehow be alive. When the Doctor asked how that was possible she said 'spoilers'. I actually don't think River had any idea how Clara was still alive but she wasn't going to leave the Doctor without saying that one last time
With River you never can tell. It's like Vastra introducing River to Clara, saying they haven't met. It wouldn't be the first time she's lied or not told the whole story (like meeting Amy in The Time Of Angels). She gets that from her Husband.......
Because it's River Song, it wouldn't be right if she didn't say 'spoilers'!
It wasn't meant to be taken literally, it was a hint to the Doctor that somehow Clara was still alive, even if River herself didn't quite understand how (saying 'spoilers' saved her from having to give an explanation, and it was always going to be the Doctor's job to rescue Clara anyway), and it got the Doctor's attention when he'd clearly thought Clara was gone.
but we will see her again following the doctors time line.
Excellent point!
Although I have to admit, I am tiring of River slightly. She's a great character, but where the hell did last night fit into her timeline? I lost track of it all after the convulted wedding episode - I thought river's first "appearance" if you will was in Let's Kill Hitler. I get rather confused after that if I'm honest.
But i do presume that due to it all being timey wimey....the 50th may see her cameo and series 8 will see a storyline (maybe an epic finale) to have her featured....11/Clara/River in a storyline...perhaps with the Patermoster Trio again would be something all kinds of epic!
Plus
- Picnic
- New haircut
- the doctors name revealed to River
needs to happen at some point too....so it still bodes well...i adore her character and would love her to be featured again....maybe also have Jack back in a storyline too with her
Actually from what I understood this has already happened in the Doctor's timeline somewhere between TATM and The Snowmen.
Back in the Snowmen Vastra tells Victorian Clara: "But he suffered losses which hurt him. Now he prefers isolation to the possibility of pain's return."
Note that she used plural when refering to the losses. Yes, she might have been refering to Amy/Rory in plural, but would that be enough to send the Doctor over the brink? I mean the last time we saw him before the Snowmen at the end of TATM he is clearly struggling, but still seems to be relatively okay when talking to River. I always had a suspicion that something more happened between TATM and the Snowmen to lead him to the way he was in that episode.
And I think I had my suspicion kinda confirmed last night, because during that conference call Madame Vastra asks River bewildered "He still never contacted you?", which to me suggest that River was indeed already dead when the Vastra/Jenny/Strax were taking care of him in Victorian London and that her death was part of what lead the Doctor to require their help in the first place.
From River's standpoint, that may well be their last ever encounter. But from the Doctor's perspective, he may still bump into her (at earlier points in her time stream) hundreds more times.
That's the thing though - I don't think he has any intention of seeing her again. He doesn't want to. He's accepted the 'ending' now and can move on.
if he bumps into her again I suspect it'll be entirely accidental and he won't be at all pleased or comfortable.
She may be still linked to Clara so if Clara mentions "spoilers"
I took her comments about The Doctor not saying goodbye to mean he hasn't tried to communicate with her in her 'saved' state.
There's no reason why couldn't see River again from a pre-library era.
So, instead we got a different farewell scene, one that captured the relationship between the two characters perfectly, in my opinion. One that showed just how much the Doctor cared for her, and one that allowed the Doctor to say goodbye in the only way he could.
River knew the Doctor better than anyone. When he asked her how he could say goodbye, she found a way for him to do it, without really saying goodbye, at all, thus helping him let go of her as much as allowing her to fade away. I think it fit their relationship as well as it possibly could.
it didnt feel right if that really is the end of her-i know it was away for him to say goodbye but what happend to looking after him as she promised amy she would do one series later and shes gone?