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Suranlan is plain wrong! - The chair business

thecharmingmanthecharmingman Posts: 1,080
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This may have been overshadowed by Tom winning, but before we knew the outcome Suralan tore Tom's business apart; how pointless going round and assessing chairs for bad backs and building a chair to stop them occurring.

Now I work in a large company and we have a person who basically does this full time (desk assessments). My sister also works for a company that has someone doing this.

Now I'm not commenting on if Tom's business is viable or not, but Suralan seemed to think it was a RIDICULOUS idea to even consider such trivialities as the health of your employees!

It just struck me as a bit out of touch....

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    aussie_dave_aussie_dave_ Posts: 717
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    Well we all know 'Elf and Safety' is an industry in its own right.

    Nice little earner too if you can jump on that particular gravy train.
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    thecharmingmanthecharmingman Posts: 1,080
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    Exactly, there is money to be made there. Suralan is entertaining but I really don't think of him as a business genius.
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    MenkMenk Posts: 13,831
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    I got the impression that it wasn't his cup of tea - he's old school, and didn't fancy buying into the idea - especially the touchy/feely side of things.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 93
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    Tom is an ideas guy, I imagine Tom will come up will ideas often and while they won't all work their might be some gems in there.
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    Pet MonkeyPet Monkey Posts: 11,923
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    Agree. It seems from Tom's website that most of his current ideas are in the field of health. To most minds, this is a bigger and more important area of research and invention than blummin' nails. Stuff the beauty products. I hope Sugar gives him scope to develop the Chair and other ideas.
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    don robertodon roberto Posts: 498
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    I thought LS was going to take forward the nail file invention with Tom rather than the chair?
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    PaacePaace Posts: 14,679
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    The chairs Tom was on about have already been made by another company. There is a shop in Wigmore St London specialising in all such products including chairs for a healthy back. The cost is too prohibitive for the mass market.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 19,748
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    Pet Monkey wrote: »
    Agree. It seems from Tom's website that most of his current ideas are in the field of health. To most minds, this is a bigger and more important area of research and invention than blummin' nails. Stuff the beauty products. I hope Sugar gives him scope to develop the Chair and other ideas.

    Especially when you consider that in the interim Tom has been working for a copmany that's developing a sanitiser to prevent hospital super bugs.

    Surely that's a wee bit more crucial than nail files?!
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    ewoodieewoodie Posts: 26,766
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    This may have been overshadowed by Tom winning, but before we knew the outcome Suralan tore Tom's business apart; how pointless going round and assessing chairs for bad backs and building a chair to stop them occurring.

    Now I work in a large company and we have a person who basically does this full time (desk assessments). My sister also works for a company that has someone doing this.

    Now I'm not commenting on if Tom's business is viable or not, but Suralan seemed to think it was a RIDICULOUS idea to even consider such trivialities as the health of your employees!

    It just struck me as a bit out of touch....


    Lord Al wants to get into the beauty business. Tom's had some success there and he's also going to involve Susan. Great they got to the final innit?!!
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    oulandyoulandy Posts: 18,242
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    Sugar was dismissive of the chair idea. He didn't want to be bothered with that sort of thing. He didn't mention however that there are already ergonomically sophisticated and expensive chairs for people who spend long hours sitting at work and would otherwise be at risk of back problems. They are used by large companies, governments and the like.
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    faith11faith11 Posts: 908
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    Yes,I think Sir Alan was wrong to dismiss this too.I one worked for a prominent newspaper company when I developed a very bad back with sciatica.It was extremely painful to sit on the normal office chair and the doctor and physiotherapist I was seeing then recommended I use specially made chairs at work to help bad backs.My company didn't have it with the result that my boss had to give me some time off because of health problems.So I dont think Tom's idea was ridiculous at all.That chair could have come in handy.Seeing there are more expensive prototypes,he could have come up with effective but cheaper versions of the chair for the mass market.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 14
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    Providing cheap knock-offs of more expensive prototypes is what IKEA has being doing that for years
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    JB220706JB220706 Posts: 189
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    I work for a well known company and every time we move desks we have to have a H&S assessment! Lord Sugar is definitely out of touch there.
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    soulmate61soulmate61 Posts: 6,176
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    The company I work in bought about 70 modern quality thingummies for IT staff who sit at their desks all day, a large part of the day surfing sites like this one, crumbs. I was told the objects which Tom would not call chairs cost 500 euros each. That would be a 35,000 euros sale all in one go. Are they worth the money? Hard to say, hard to measure comfort. At home I sit in a 60-euro PC chair from Argos.

    35,000 would not be a repeatable sale -- unlike food.
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    IgnazioIgnazio Posts: 18,695
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    Exactly, there is money to be made there. Suralan is entertaining but I really don't think of him as a business genius.
    In case you hadn't noticed he is now Lord Sugar; but back to basics - I don't think he got to where he is without displaying some business acumen bordering on genius.

    How did a man lacking business genius acquire the yachts, the planes and mansions etc. not to mention a seat in the Lords?

    Can you pinpoint his flaws? Without any intention of being confrontational and given your business perspicacity, is it fair to ask if you have enjoyed similar success to Lord S?
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    labasheedylabasheedy Posts: 1,003
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    Its a cracking idea.

    Maybe LS will have a rethink on that one...although presumably the experts have also being guiding him and he's not just unilaterally shooting it down, I expect.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,312
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    I agree with the majority, Lord Alan definitely missed the mark here.

    My mum has written a number of articles on back injury and RSI and knows a great deal about how much money companies spend on H&S and RSI.... Tom's business plan had decent legs to stand on. The idea itself was not ridiculous at all.

    I could genuinely see companies (particuarly large corporate ones) signing up for this.
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    TakaeTakae Posts: 13,555
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    If you take a look at Sugar's portfolio of businesses, you'll see they all have one thing in common: speed. Something can be created and sold within a few months or a year at most. PC units. IT services provider. Advertising. Properties. Electronic devices. Aviation. Investment company. He doesn't seem have the patience for slowness and he's indifferent to something that can't buy customer loyalty.

    I can see why he couldn't see speciality chairs like Tom's can be seen as fast-selling products. Nail files can be. Beauty products can be. Speciality chairs, not so much. Once it's sold, the customer won't return to buy a replacement for a long time. It's a potentially profitable but slow business. That's what I think, anyway.
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    dizzyrascaldizzyrascal Posts: 287
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    I wonder if LS was trying to con us. He is astute enough to know a good idea when he sees one and as the head of a large company (semi-retired) he must be aware of how much his own companies have invested in H & S and that many work days are lost due to back pain/long term back problems. I think he did see the potential of the chair but that would not have made good telly. After all he likes to keep us guessing to the end and that wouldn't have worked if he'd gushed over Tom's idea. In a normal business situation you would never broadcast to the world what your next project is going to be, people might copy you!
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    soulmate61soulmate61 Posts: 6,176
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    Takae wrote: »
    If you take a look at Sugar's portfolio of businesses, you'll see they all have one thing in common: speed. Something can be created and sold within a few months or a year at most. PC units. IT services provider. Advertising. Properties. Electronic devices. Aviation. Investment company. He doesn't seem have the patience for slowness and he's indifferent to something that can't buy customer loyalty.

    I can see why he couldn't see speciality chairs like Tom's can be seen as fast-selling products. Nail files can be. Beauty products can be. Speciality chairs, not so much. Once it's sold, the customer won't return to buy a replacement for a long time. It's a potentially profitable but slow business. That's what I think, anyway.

    Hard to see how property investment can have a place in a "quick turnover" list. Property is not a sector for buying and selling at the drop of a hat. Lord Sugar was said to have lost £100 million on property he could not unload when the sector went sour.

    No doubt there is market demand for PC chairs, as even people at home now sit for long hours in front of the PC. However there would be stiff competition, and end users would want to be convinced Tom's chair is the best and value for money before they swap old for new. Has the Consumer Association ever done market comparisons for chairs?
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 17
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    well i dnt think he hired tom on the one idea - Tom products arent in Walmart or Boots anymore and Suralan no's he can get these back on the shelves. plus i think he knows Tom will come up with new ideas every week. thats the type of guy suralan wants someone who can invent new products etc.
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    thecharmingmanthecharmingman Posts: 1,080
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    Ignazio wrote: »
    Can you pinpoint his flaws? Without any intention of being confrontational and given your business perspicacity, is it fair to ask if you have enjoyed similar success to Lord S?

    No I have not enjoyed similar success to Lord S but that is not really the point. I am still allowed to have an opinion on him.

    By your logic no football fan is allowed to criticse a professional? Because they have had 'more success' at football so are beyond reproach?

    If you benchmark Sugar against other business people that were involved in computers in the 80s (Jobs, Gates, etc) he comes up well short of what he could have acheived.

    As i say, i find him entertaining.
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    brangdonbrangdon Posts: 14,110
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    Takae wrote: »
    I can see why he couldn't see speciality chairs like Tom's can be seen as fast-selling products. Nail files can be. Beauty products can be. Speciality chairs, not so much. Once it's sold, the customer won't return to buy a replacement for a long time. It's a potentially profitable but slow business. That's what I think, anyway.
    I'd have thought you'd have to work hard to get a company to adopt your chairs, but having done so, they'll probably buy one for each employee above a certain level, and later if they grow by 5% they'll want 5% more chairs. And there are a lot of companies you could try to sell to.

    I think Lord Sugar dismissed it only because he wouldn't want it for his own companies. He doesn't believe in molly-coddling his employees. For example, he's implied he'd rather not employ women in case they get pregnant and he has to pay maternity leave.
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