EE: Why is everyone being hard on Tosh?

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  • Lizzie BrookesLizzie Brookes Posts: 15,073
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    duckylucky wrote: »
    Even Mick !! Like he is a saint !!

    I suppose you dislike Mick too. Anyway, given that Mick was responsible for burning his own pub as far as I remember, he'd be a hypocrite to condemn Alfie, though he rightly advised Alfie against what he was planning to do.
  • lou_123lou_123 Posts: 12,706
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    SMIDSYmk2 wrote: »
    RIIIIGGHHHT
    That's a great response.
    Doesnt answer my question though.

    I don't like her, get over it.
  • KatrinaKKatrinaK Posts: 32,261
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    I don't feel sorry for Alfie. Yes he was desperate but so are thousands of people struggling to find work. What he did was completely reckless and now Kat is suffering for it.

    I don't like Tosh much but she was right to file a report.
  • SMIDSYmk2SMIDSYmk2 Posts: 7,799
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    lou_123 wrote: »
    I don't like her, get over it.

    Thats fine, i dislike Stacey right now.
    Your response of
    Been the most annoying and pointless character ever...
    Isn't actually a reason for what she's done wrong.
  • duckyluckyduckylucky Posts: 13,828
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    I suppose you dislike Mick too. Anyway, given that Mick was responsible for burning his own pub as far as I remember, he'd be a hypocrite to condemn Alfie, though he rightly advised Alfie against what he was planning to do.

    Its a soap !!! I dont get worked up about it !!
  • Lizzie BrookesLizzie Brookes Posts: 15,073
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    I know it's a soap but it's hard not to invest in the characters.
  • Sorcha_27Sorcha_27 Posts: 138,514
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    duckylucky wrote: »
    Its a soap !!! I dont get worked up about it !!

    this is a soaps discussion forum
  • duckyluckyduckylucky Posts: 13,828
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    this is a soaps discussion forum

    Yes , i do know that . Is there a problem ?
  • Sorcha_27Sorcha_27 Posts: 138,514
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    duckylucky wrote: »
    Yes , i do know that . Is there a problem ?

    by saying it's only a soap,what's the point of coming on here then?
  • HarloweHarlowe Posts: 20,005
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    I suppose you dislike Mick too. Anyway, given that Mick was responsible for burning his own pub as far as I remember, he'd be a hypocrite to condemn Alfie, though he rightly advised Alfie against what he was planning to do.

    That was Shirley...

    I don't like Tosh but can see her reasoning by it so can understand why she did it, I have little to no sympathy towards Alfie, tbh a lot of peoples attitudes towards her are quite realistic not everyone like's what they considers a 'grass'.
  • duckyluckyduckylucky Posts: 13,828
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    by saying it's only a soap,what's the point of coming on here then?

    I said i wasnt getting worked up about it . I dont get my knickers in a twist about it
    I can voice any opinionI like even if I knowvits a soap . I am guessing everyone on here knows its a soap and come on here so I dont get your point at all
  • Sorcha_27Sorcha_27 Posts: 138,514
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    duckylucky wrote: »
    I said i wasnt getting worked up about it . I dont get my knickers in a twist about it
    I can voice any opinionI like even if I knowvits a soap . I am guessing everyone on here knows its a soap and come on here so I dont get your point at all

    ok fair enough. I wasn't trying to tell you what you could/couldn't post so if it came across as dictatorial then apologies.
  • duckyluckyduckylucky Posts: 13,828
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    ok fair enough. I wasn't trying to tell you what you could/couldn't post so if it came across as dictatorial then apologies.

    No worries at all .
  • JigglyBallJigglyBall Posts: 1,484
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    It's hard to say how to feel, because the story is so unrealistic.

    In real life they would have child tax credit, child benefit, income support (Kat), and Alfie would be entitled to Jobseekers if he was out of work. As a conservative estimate they would be living on around 1200 per month, and probably not paying much rent (if any), reduced council tax...so on and so forth. Include Stacey's earnings, and Mo's pension/on the side jobs and they would probably be 'ok'.

    So looking at it from that perspective - what Alfie did was stupid and he deserves to be grassed up.

    However, from the scriptwriters perspective (and Mick's), Alfie was a desperate man who was struggling to look after and protect his family. Burning the house down was a last resort to prevent them from being on the streets. He was at his wits end and not thinking logically - it was desperation. So in that case we feel sorry for him, and Tosh becomes the villain who should keep her nose out.
  • nickymongernickymonger Posts: 11,412
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    I agree that Alfie was wrong to jilt Roxy the way he did and that he should have broken up with her sooner but it still wasn't an excuse for Phil to sell the pub and kick him and Kat out. Of course, to be fair to Alfie, Roxy made a move on him at a time when he was vurnerable after discovering Kat's affair with Derek to it was human for him to turn to her for comfort.

    Alfie does know that he is responsible for the state Kat is in and he does feel guilty about it. He was about to confess to her when she thanked him for saving her life (and then of course he couldn't bring himself to - I see a similarity with John Stape there). Interestingly Mick also advised him to keep quiet. He never meant to hurt Kat. If things had gone according to plan then he would have returned and rung the fire service before it spread too badly, the house would have been completely empty and would not have exploded.

    Kat was wrong to claim on benefits and work, and it was perhaps unwise to have the twins when they couldn't afford more children.

    Of course it was. He had more than legitimate grounds to get rid of him even without selling the place. And he gave legal notice. They were not on the streets. That is what annoys me...people believing that Kat and Alfie have some sort of entitlement and that Alfie is poor and misunderstood. They don't. An owner can sell at any time and what owner, when Roxy was the landlady anyway. And no-one would expect to walk into the pub the next day, move their ex in and expect everything to carry on with no backlash. Most people in real life would be out on their ear and after Alfie had gone on a moment's holiday; Phil would have had legitimate grounds to terminate anyway. It hadn't been Kats home for a year!

    And of course; Roxy forced him into bed. They had a relationship for a year. It was hardly some vulnerable fling post Kat. They were trying for a baby and got married ffs

    John Stape kidnapped a girl, murdered 2 people...he was hardly a nice man! He ended up becoming deranged!

    Most people commit arson for insurance fraud reasons. There is a reason why it is a crime and what makes Alfie above the law? It's not even the first time...he's an ex crim. He knows the score. And if you don't want to do the time; you don't do the crime. There is NE VER a legitimate reason to knowingly commit arson and set a place on fire! If he was drunk and out of his mind..at least then he would not have been of sound mind. But this was stupid, irresponsible and deliberate, with one person burned/ scarred for life (almost dying) and 2 people risked their life. Stacy and Mo have lost their belongings, with /stacy having lost her Bradley items. The fact no-one ended up dead doesn't take away from the pain and suffering Alfie's choice did. To try and dismiss it as no big deal is ignorant of the pain and suffering Alfie once again has caused because he never thinks before he acts and thinks he is entitled to behave badly because he believes he has a good reason.
  • duckyluckyduckylucky Posts: 13,828
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    I am struggling a little as to what Alfie would gain by the insurance claim . He was I presume wanting to claim for thier possessions ? But surely he has to replace everything with the money he would get anyway ?
    And insurance takes time so what did he think they would do while waiting for the payout ?
  • eastboy1980eastboy1980 Posts: 525
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    KatrinaK wrote: »
    I don't feel sorry for Alfie. Yes he was desperate but so are thousands of people struggling to find work. What he did was completely reckless and now Kat is suffering for it.

    I don't like Tosh much but she was right to file a report.

    Sums it up perfectly. Being desperate is no excuse. He sold his car at the car lot in tonights episode, if he was that desperate he would have done this 2 weeks ago
  • Lizzie BrookesLizzie Brookes Posts: 15,073
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    Of course it was. He had more than legitimate grounds to get rid of him even without selling the place. And he gave legal notice. They were not on the streets. That is what annoys me...people believing that Kat and Alfie have some sort of entitlement and that Alfie is poor and misunderstood. They don't. An owner can sell at any time and what owner, when Roxy was the landlady anyway. And no-one would expect to walk into the pub the next day, move their ex in and expect everything to carry on with no backlash. Most people in real life would be out on their ear and after Alfie had gone on a moment's holiday; Phil would have had legitimate grounds to terminate anyway. It hadn't been Kats home for a year!

    And of course; Roxy forced him into bed. They had a relationship for a year. It was hardly some vulnerable fling post Kat. They were trying for a baby and got married ffs

    John Stape kidnapped a girl, murdered 2 people...he was hardly a nice man! He ended up becoming deranged!

    Most people commit arson for insurance fraud reasons. There is a reason why it is a crime and what makes Alfie above the law? It's not even the first time...he's an ex crim. He knows the score. And if you don't want to do the time; you don't do the crime. There is NE VER a legitimate reason to knowingly commit arson and set a place on fire! If he was drunk and out of his mind..at least then he would not have been of sound mind. But this was stupid, irresponsible and deliberate, with one person burned/ scarred for life (almost dying) and 2 people risked their life. Stacy and Mo have lost their belongings, with /stacy having lost her Bradley items. The fact no-one ended up dead doesn't take away from the pain and suffering Alfie's choice did. To try and dismiss it as no big deal is ignorant of the pain and suffering Alfie once again has caused because he never thinks before he acts and thinks he is entitled to behave badly because he believes he has a good reason.

    Both Alfie and John Stape did wrong, nobody denied that. Believe it or not, many had compassion for John Stape because he felt guilt and remorse over his actions. He suffered sleeplessness and two mental breakdowns. He killed Charlotte in the heat of the moment and Joy was manslaughter. He knew his actions were wrong and the guilt ate him up. His heart was in the right place though and even Fiz forgave him before he died.

    I don't think people/characters should be solely defined by their actions. There are the circumstances in which the actions took place, the level of guilt/remorse, the reasons behind the actions etc.

    I didn't say Roxy forced Alfie into bed but she still chose to make a move on him after he had just split with Kat over her affair with Derek. Was that really a good idea? I do understand Alfie embarking on a rebound relationship in that situation but he shouldn't have strung Roxy along the way he did.

    I know Alfie caused those injuries to Kat and that he destroyed that Slater's belongings and he's the one that has to live with the guilt of that but as Mick said Alfie never meant to harm Kat or anyone else so I can feel compassion for him even if his action was reckless and dangerous.
  • Kim_xKim_x Posts: 3,635
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    Tosh is an abusive character. She causes hurt and emotionally abuses Tina also. There is more intent in that than what Alfie did. The unintended consequences of his actions should be enough to convey the message to viewers that arson is not okay. Tosh also passed judgement on the Moons as parents and it seemed like she was motivated by jealousy. If she had suspicions there would have been proper channels through which to report them, she was out of line pretending to use the bottle bank to corner Stacey and asking the fire investigator about it when it wasn't her case.
  • Lizzie BrookesLizzie Brookes Posts: 15,073
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    Why all this Mick hate? I like Mick. It's really nice that he seems a non judgemental person.
  • Lizzie BrookesLizzie Brookes Posts: 15,073
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    Kim_x wrote: »
    Tosh is an abusive character. She causes hurt and emotionally abuses Tina also. There is more intent in that than what Alfie did. The unintended consequences of his actions should be enough to convey the message to viewers that arson is not okay. Tosh also passed judgement on the Moons as parents and it seemed like she was motivated by jealousy. If she had suspicions there would have been proper channels through which to report them, she was out of line pretending to use the bottle bank to corner Stacey and asking the fire investigator about it when it wasn't her case.

    I agree.
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