Leaving work on time

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  • BerBer Posts: 24,562
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    Sometimes I leave early, sometimes I stay late. I usually stop at a natural break so if I'm done ten minutes before home time, I'm not going to sit there, twiddling my thumbs, but like tonight, if I don't get finished what I'm currently doing til twenty past, so be it.

    Same here - its swings and rounabouts really. Sometimes I prefer to stay late to complete a task so I dont go home and keep thinking about it. Then I might take a longer lunch, go in later or leave earlier to compensate.
  • AndrueAndrue Posts: 23,351
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    I always get to work on time and get in for at least 8:50AM or earlier however others in my office seem to leave around 5:30 -6:00 personally i do not see why you should work late everyday when you could do there work tomorrow if its not urgent.

    thoughts
    I do a fairly consistent 7:30am to 4pm. I rarely if ever work longer hours. But others here arrive and leave and different times. To me working longer than contracted hours means something is wrong so it shouldn't happen often. It's not like anyone here even gets overtime.

    But no-one has ever called me out on it. Maybe I've been lucky but my managers have always taken the view that as long as the work gets done they don't care. One thing I will say - I take time management and scheduling very seriously. I am always careful to finish things on time if not before. It's a personal trait as well. I just can't stand the way most people seem to drift along with no sense or care about time.
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    Must admit, I tend to be rather flexible about this stuff but that's cos some days I do nothing while on other days I have to work 20-odd hours.

    Even so, the whole "culture" surrounding working hours is something that baffles me.

    A few years ago I had a job at an office where almost everybody had a sandwich for lunch, at their desk and, even though they only worked until 5pm, everybody used to sort of almost stop working at 5pm but then hang around, discussing stuff, making plans and generally trying to look busy until about 6:15pm, when it was acceptable to actually leave.

    Watching this as an "outsider" was pretty surreal.
    I'd hear people moaning that they needed to do their xmas shopping (or whatever) and even though you could see a retail park out of the office window, nobody was "brave" enough to actually put on their coat and leave the office during the lunch hour.

    I don't think much of people who walk out at 5pm if the shit has hit the fan and everybody else is working late to sort it out but, equally, it seems daft to remain chained to your desk just for the brownie points.
  • GneissGneiss Posts: 14,555
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    I'm usually one of the last to arrive and one of the last to leave...

    We do have contracted hours but it's treated pretty much as flexi time... If people stay late a few days they might slip off early on the Friday, but no one keeps tabs on it.

    Basically we are treated as adults and as far as I'm aware no one of takes the p***.
  • NaturalWorrierNaturalWorrier Posts: 649
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    This is a big bug bear of mine.

    You are contracted to work certain hours, and most of the time, its those hours you should work.

    OK, on odd occasions, there may be a need to stay late to complete a task, but these should be an exception to the norm.

    If people are constantly working overtime (paid or unpaid), then it means either the department is under resourced, or training is required to get effeciency up.

    Why is it seen as a bad thing to leave on time? Surely if is a good thing - it shows that you are good at your job and can complete it in the time allocated?

    Never understand the logic of "its unacceptable not to do some unpaid overtime". Why?
  • Martin BlankMartin Blank Posts: 1,689
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    Dusk1983 wrote: »
    It's now 'bad form' to work your contracted hours.

    In the current jobs climate it's all about being seen to do more.

    The best advice is to stay late but just surf the net, catch up on personal admin, etc.

    Sadly, this is indeed the way things are going...
  • NaturalWorrierNaturalWorrier Posts: 649
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    Sadly, this is indeed the way things are going...

    and why is that seen as acceptable?
  • elliecatelliecat Posts: 9,890
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    I get in 20-30 minutes early depending on traffic and whether I need to get petrol or lunch or breakfast on my way but I leave 15-20 minutes early. I can be in from 7.40/45am and will leave at 4.15pm. If I need to take time off for the doctors or opticians I can do, even if I just want to leave a little bit earlier as I may have stuff to do at home I work through lunch. My job though is not something that has deadlines and what I don't get done one day I will do tomorrow and occasionally at the start of the Academic year or during exam time when I have marking to do I take stuff home and do it at the weekend. The marking I find is easier done at home where I don't have interruptions anyway.
  • Dusk1983Dusk1983 Posts: 708
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    and why is that seen as acceptable?

    The rules change as the economy changes.

    Even the most ignorant boss is aware that there are people 'queuing up out there' for a job.

    And unless you're in that tiny group of very skilled and specialised jobs this DOES apply to you.
  • NaturalWorrierNaturalWorrier Posts: 649
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    Dusk1983 wrote: »
    The rules change as the economy changes.

    Even the most ignorant boss is aware that there are people 'queuing up out there' for a job.

    And unless you're in that tiny group of very skilled and specialised jobs this DOES apply to you.

    Again, but why?

    I can understand it if it meant that more work would get done, but more often than not, people are just being less effecient. So replacing people that leave on time with people that stay late does not actually mean more work can get done.

    What I am saying is, why is it "better" for people to stay late when the effects of doing so does not give any benefit to the company? The only thing it does is reinforces a poor work culture.
  • wazzyboywazzyboy Posts: 13,346
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    I worked in an office where everyone but me was a smoker. They all took smoke breaks on the hour, every hour, for about ten to fifteen minutes. In light of this I felt quite within my rights to start late or leave early in proportionate amounts.
  • allthatyouwantallthatyouwant Posts: 1,381
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    In my current job I always ask if there's anything that they want me to do before I leave - which is usually on the dot however if I'm working until we close the shop we always get out fifteen minutes/half an hour after we're supposed to
  • Dusk1983Dusk1983 Posts: 708
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    Again, but why?

    I can understand it if it meant that more work would get done, but more often than not, people are just being less effecient. So replacing people that leave on time with people that stay late does not actually mean more work can get done.

    What I am saying is, why is it "better" for people to stay late when the effects of doing so does not give any benefit to the company? The only thing it does is reinforces a poor work culture.

    It's about perception.

    I didn't say "it's about doing more", I said "it's about being seen to do more".
  • NaturalWorrierNaturalWorrier Posts: 649
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    Dusk1983 wrote: »
    It's about perception.

    I didn't say "it's about doing more", I said "it's about being seen to do more".

    Fair enough.

    So if you leave on time, you are perceived not to have enough work? Surely if you want me to do more work, which takes longer, then my core hours are then extended to say 9-6, rather than 9-5? With the increased hours, the salary should also increase? I get the argument of the bonus, but a bonus may not happen if the company has a bad year.

    I guess this is the crux of it - companies abusing employees, yet failing to see that the more they discourage employees to leave on time, the less morale there is in the work workforce, and the less efficeincy in the workforce, simply to satisfy a culture and a perception.

    If you ask me, it is the culture that needs correcting.
  • AndrueAndrue Posts: 23,351
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    Why is it seen as a bad thing to leave on time? Surely if is a good thing - it shows that you are good at your job and can complete it in the time allocated?
    Ab-so-bloody-lutely.

    Steve Maguire has a go at that mentality in one of his books (he used to be a developer and manager at Microsoft). At one time another team there was working long hours and getting overtime pay because it was behind schedule. His comment was 'Why are they being rewarded for being bad at their job?'

    As I say I've never been in that situation. We pretty much have flexi-time here anyway but no-one cares about bums on seats. What people care about is completing projects on schedule. Luckily I'm better at time keeping and estimating than everyone else so actually with a little extra planning I can usually ensure that I have spare time to 'pursue other interests'. The way I see it - if everyone else is having to rush a bit to complete the same kind of work that's their problem. We all get the chance to discuss time scales and milestones and we all agree to them :)

    I also work 'harder' upfront to ensure that I have some padding at the end. That's far better than taking it easy all the time and getting caught out ;)
  • PorcupinePorcupine Posts: 25,231
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    I have once or twice left work about 20 mins late, but mostly my computer is off and im out the door at 5pm. In the morning I arrive around 8:55am.

    When I got the job I asked my new boss whether i should arrive early on my first day (I didn't know if you had to get in, computer on, coffee made etc) before 9am. But he said no, 9am is fine.

    I would rather work through my lunch hour if we are snowed under with work.
  • Dusk1983Dusk1983 Posts: 708
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    I guess this is the crux of it - companies abusing employees, yet failing to see that the more they discourage employees to leave on time, the less morale there is in the work workforce, and the less efficeincy in the workforce, simply to satisfy a culture and a perception.

    If you ask me, it is the culture that needs correcting.

    Oh, I totally agree. But this is the game, and if you want to play it these are the rules.
  • MoonyMoony Posts: 15,093
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    Dusk1983 wrote: »
    It's now 'bad form' to work your contracted hours.

    It always has been in my experience. I have worked everywhere from shops to blue-chip pharma, and pretty much all have expected their staff to work beyond contracted hours.

    I used to stack shelves in the evening whilst still at school. The manager of the shop wouldn't allow us to stop actually stacking until bang on the of our shift.......problem is - we still had to tidy/clean the store afterwards, ready for the next day and that used to take us another 30-40 minutes afterwards (unpaid). This was back in the very early 90s.

    In larger companies, for more senior members (supervisors and higher) - its actually written into their contract that even though they are contracted for a certain time, they must agree to work whatever hours are required by the business. The culture of bosses expecting their staff to also do the same - probably stems from this (i.e. "if I have to stay - you do too").
  • Dusk1983Dusk1983 Posts: 708
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    Moony wrote: »
    The culture of bosses expecting their staff to also do the same - probably stems from this (i.e. "if I have to stay - you do too").

    The best way for a junior employee to progress in this country is to pretend to be a manager.

    Starting early, working late, pulling other employees into line, reporting others' poor performance, being contactable round the clock, etc.

    All done voluntarily with no extra pay? Promotion here we come.
  • NaturalWorrierNaturalWorrier Posts: 649
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    Dusk1983 wrote: »
    The best way for a junior employee to progress in this country is to pretend to be a manager.

    Starting early, working late, pulling other employees into line, reporting others' poor performance, being contactable round the clock, etc.

    All done voluntarily with no extra pay? Promotion here we come.

    Which is fair enough if you are after promotion. But many people do not want or wish for promotion, and just want to do their job and get home to enjoy their personal life. This shouldn't be seen as bad, just different, and you need a mix of people in a workplace who want to progress and those that don't to have a good team.
  • Dusk1983Dusk1983 Posts: 708
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    Which is fair enough if you are after promotion. But many people do not want or wish for promotion, and just want to do their job and get home to enjoy their personal life. This shouldn't be seen as bad, just different, and you need a mix of people in a workplace who want to progress and those that don't to have a good team.

    As long as there's employees out there who play this game to get ahead, people who "just want to do their job and get home" will appear relatively lazy.

    And in a redundancy scenario it'll be a no brainer.
  • Glawster2002Glawster2002 Posts: 15,189
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    Andrue wrote: »
    Ab-so-bloody-lutely.

    Steve Maguire has a go at that mentality in one of his books (he used to be a developer and manager at Microsoft). At one time another team there was working long hours and getting overtime pay because it was behind schedule. His comment was 'Why are they being rewarded for being bad at their job?'

    That applies to most companies.

    A friend of mine worked for a company who won a contract to install a wired and a wireless network for a particular customer. He worked on the wired network which was designed, installed, commissioned, and handed over to the customer on time. The wireless network was poorly designed, the equipment was late and riddled with faults and, after the company threw huge amount of resources at it, was eventually handed over to the customer two months late and well over budget. The wireless team were given bonuses and many of them were promoted for "going the extra mile" to get the network working for the customer. My friend and his colleagues who delivered the wired network on time and within budget received.... Nothing, not even a thank you.

    My company had flexi-time, the earliest you can start is @ 07:00, the latest @ 10:00. I start @ 08:00 and I'm usually one of the first in. I'm contracted to work @ 7.5 hours a day and, unless there is a customer issue that needs resolving, that is what I do. I do not get paid for working any more. I have had some people make snide comments about working "half a day", but as they are always the ones who get in after me I point out to them I did my other half of the day whilst they were still in bed - they only make such a comment to me once!
  • PinSarlaPinSarla Posts: 4,072
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    BinaryDad wrote: »
    The games industry is still rife with this sort of thing. Not just from management, but from the actual development staff. A lot of tutting, hard stares and snide comments if you left at a normal time, even if you were on/ahead of schedule and there's no milestone looming.

    The thing is, I tended to get into the office at 8:30 most mornings, and if there was no need, I would leave at 5:30 or 6. The people doing all the moaning were always pointing out how they stayed until 7 or 8 at night. Well, that's great, but they typically started at 11am, mucked around for an hour until lunch and after 5:30, would typically fart around doing sod all.

    If you're as productive as required during normal working hours, then get yourself home at a decent time. The chances are that you're more productive than those who make a fuss about how many hours overtime they do, to get the job done.

    Is 'Crunch' really as hard as people make it out to be? Like working 15 hours a day?

    Anyway, I am quite well organised now, and TBH I doubt my boss would like me hanging around for the hell of it.
  • DianaFireDianaFire Posts: 12,711
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    My industry has always been pretty hard-working, doing long hours and weekends and the like. It's the culture. At the same time, I get to mess about on here. I love doing the job and if I have to work late it's nearly always on something worthwhile. If it's really getting too pressured they'll bring in extra resources to cover. Wouldn't work for everyone, I know, but it suits us.
  • CreamteaCreamtea Posts: 14,682
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    I always used to be early/on time in the mornings, while others were constantly late. Some nights I would leave bang on 5:30 if I didn't have much to do, other nights I worked late and would be the last in the office because I had a deadline to meet. I quite enjoyed that. Working in a big empty office was quite cool, if a bit spooky. There were some who would always stay after 5:30 but these were generally the suck ups who I didn't have much time for.
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