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How come it's so easy for cable pirates?
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Before I begin, I don't condone, approve or promote such activities.
I wouldn't say I'm technically minded and if I'm honest, technology is not my strongest point at all but something baffled me this morning.
A housemate of mine went on a Sunday shopping spree at our local Market and was able to pick up a cable box for a mere £50. Me, being the sceptic, I laughed as he suggested connecting it up to pick up the channels we don't subscribe to (only Sports and Movies).
By simply connecting up the box and selecting 'SCAN', he managed to pick up all the channels on the Virgin Media platform; those we subscribe to and the Sports and Movies we don't. I'm not one to take something I'm not entitled to and thus, we disconnected the box and won't allow it to be connecting again.
But I can't help but question exactly why Virgin Media have made this so easy? I mean, Market Stalls? It's hardly underground, plus, the setup was easier than our old Freeview box.
I had a Google and it appears this is big business, but I notice nothing exists like this for the Sky platform?
I wouldn't say I'm technically minded and if I'm honest, technology is not my strongest point at all but something baffled me this morning.
A housemate of mine went on a Sunday shopping spree at our local Market and was able to pick up a cable box for a mere £50. Me, being the sceptic, I laughed as he suggested connecting it up to pick up the channels we don't subscribe to (only Sports and Movies).
By simply connecting up the box and selecting 'SCAN', he managed to pick up all the channels on the Virgin Media platform; those we subscribe to and the Sports and Movies we don't. I'm not one to take something I'm not entitled to and thus, we disconnected the box and won't allow it to be connecting again.
But I can't help but question exactly why Virgin Media have made this so easy? I mean, Market Stalls? It's hardly underground, plus, the setup was easier than our old Freeview box.
I had a Google and it appears this is big business, but I notice nothing exists like this for the Sky platform?
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Virgin on the other hand make most of their revenue from telephony/broadband, and don't even make profits. Virgin claim, in their submissions to OFCOM, that they sell Sky Premiums at a loss to their customers - and last we heard Sky only charge for paying subscribers and not those stealing the service.
So Virgin have had little/no incentive to secure their TV service as they don't make money from the only content worth stealing on the platform.
If I didn't have morals, I would happily opt for these boxes. It's clear that Virgin Media couldn't give a damn (or don't appear to be showing it).
I wonder what BSkyB make of cable piracy? I mean, we would (theoretically) be able to watch Sky Sports and Movies (something BSkyB pay £m/bs for) for nothing. BSkyB can't be happy with that? I'm surprised that it doesn't also have a larger knock-on effect with BSkyB subscribers? You'd be a mug if you'd pay a lot of money for something you could get for free from another supplier (who couldn't care less).
From what I understand, cable tv piracy will soon be a thing of the past and the prices of these pirate boxes is plummeting for that reason. I hope this is true.
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/help/smartcard/whats_happening.html
The pirates seem a little concerned.
http://www.digitalworldz.co.uk/219070-virgin-moving-nagra-3-a-6.html
Fully understand the point you are making.
But whilst this is not costing VM anything (assuming they sell Sky Sports and Movies at break-even), it is costing Sky a lot of lost revenue (which would essentially be 100% clear profit for Sky if we assume the pirates did instead subscribe to Sky Premiums through VM).
So why does Sky do nothing?
I guess one answer is that it would be hard to prove a case and to sue VM they would have to be able to prove negligence.
But is another possibility that Sky may prefer to keep this as a card that they can play more usefully at a later date?
eg if / when OFCOM rule that Sky must wholesale Sky Premiums at regulated prices, Sky may then choose that moment to play this card?
Why do you think virgin are updating their cards then? its possible they have worked this out! so are updating encryption to take what you have just said into account do you not think. So that card may possibly not be there to play. just a thought.
Sure - if the new encryption system will prevent all hacking then the whole subject will obviously become a complete non-issue.
Unfortunately I'm not a technical expert so have no idea how much more effective the new encryption system will be.
All I was saying was that IF Sky think hacking is still taking place when OFCOM rules (expected Q1 2010) then that may be the time when Sky decides to make a move in this area.
(Or potentially when / if Sky loses possible appeals against the OFCOM ruling at some later date).
Yes i would agree with your point, sky would definately play the encryption issue if virgins tv service was effectively hacked and not secure, with some justification.
As for ofcoms report i wonder weather after about 3 years worth of work if it will be implimented at all ! i suspect neil berkett may have been warned either by sky possibly ofcom, that if vms network is not secure any chance of vm getting sky sports/movies HD will be zilch.. So the new card is preparation otherwise it would not be cost effective for vm to issue new cards.
On the above obviously only time will tell. or perhaps ofcom will drag it out hoping for a cameron win that will let them off the hook all bets are open on that.LOL.;)
Sky may decide to play that card but it begs the question why have they not been bothered before? Cable, in analogue and digital forms, has been hacked for over 15 years in the UK and Sky have not acted on it before.
Sky have acknowledged being aware of it in their annual reports/reviews and have stated that they are working with cable on the matter. To cry foul (literally as it ends) would prove fairly pointless. OFCOM are no doubt aware through confidential responses to many consultations over the years.
Yes i would agree sky seem to have been very accepting thus far as regards cable being hacked,could that be down to the competition comissions i believe rate card, which says sports/ movies must be made available to vm or ntl as was and others at a certain price.
Would think vm know there is no chance of any sky HD channels appearing, without secure encryption this time though, and for all we know sky may well be working behind the scenes with vm,did neil berkett not say relations between him and jeremy darroch are quite cordial now.
Possibly because up to now they have known that VM's TV service has not been any significant threat to them (Sky has approx 90% share of premium subscribers overall implying an approx 80% share in VM areas)
An adverse OFCOM ruling could change that at least to some degree.
But even if Sky has a weak case they may may well be able to drag it out for quite a while and damage VM's business.
The ITV shares case is a very good example of just how long cases can go on for.
Suppose, hypothetically, that Sky said that because of hacking they were completely suspending supply of Sky Sports and Movies to VM. That could do substantial damage to VM's business very quickly.
Even if VM later won a case to get the channels restored (and possibly even won damages?) that could take a significant amount of time and the whole saga could well prove to be beneficial to Sky overall.
And that argument is as transparent as glass - it has nothing to do with piracy and everything to do with Sky exerting their market power.
Sky would only guarantee stricter regulation in the long run by doing so. With Sky's market share of premium subscribers being so high (presumably due to the more favourable pricing on their own platform) it begs the question can the subscribers to Sky Premiums through Virgin actually get Sky?
I think if sky blatently tried to withold their premium sports/movie channels from virgin media, and bearing in mind these are regulated in the form of the rate card then regulators other then ofcom may well hold a more serious investigation into sky market power as has been threatened before. Sky could not just unilaterily withold them without reffering the matter to whoever regulates the rate card.
That is why i think the above argument you make falls down,i would also think vms business may not be as damaged as you think as very few vms subs actually take skys premium services.
In fact as in the sky basics it may actually damage sky more, as advertisers demand cuts in charges to take into account loss of viewers as was the case in the basics issue.Fewer potential customers means advertisers will want to cut what they pay sky,which in football terms would be an own goal.;)
I'm not sure what it is that you're getting at, neither am I sure of what it is that you're implying?
If I were one to take something which I wasn't entitled to, I wouldn't be ordering multiroom subscriptions and additional boxes, when I could happily get them a lot cheaper with all the channels elsewhere!
In actual fact, if I wanted to go down that route, I would cancel TV completely and stick to these boxes.
You know why I won't? Because my parents taught me morals and values! If you can't afford or entitled something, you go without!
Regardless of Sky's involvement, the bottom line is that it's costly to set up a reliable encryption that is not easily hacked, but is compatible with existing systems. The new card roll-out should help, as this will allow Virgin to regularly issue new encryption.
Ryarazzer obviously finds it hard to believe that having found out that you could have these channels for free you would then disconnect and go without them .....
is this cable box your housemate bought a Virgin box as they are illegal to buy from anyone other than Virgin Media .....
I can see his point.
But at the end of the day, I don't watch or have an interest in sports and the movies on Sky Movies have been repeated so much, that the ones that they tend to show are ones I have already watched. And as I have XL TV, I have access to the channels I want to watch and as I want to watch them, I pay for them. It's not a hard concept to grasp; yes, people like me do exist.
It wasn't a Virgin Media branded box, it was a basic silver/black box. It didn't have a branded EPG, other than a basic blue one.
I can appreciate someone paying for something they enjoy - not everyone feels relaxed and ok getting something for nothing. I could buy a "dodgy" box today and get it all for free, but I'm happy to pay knowing I have the full supported productfrom Virgin. And can relax while watching TV instead of being paranoid about any Virgin vans being in the street!
Also, there's a fair amount of evidence out there (including testimonies to US courts) to suggest that Sky were indirectly responsible for the VM/exNTL system being open to hacks in the first place.
Christopher Tarnovsky
The system may be broken again in the future, but then so could Sky's NDS system (although, while 'encouraging' hackers to break rival systems, NDS do take a rather 'robust' approach to dealing with anyone attempting to hack their's).
Abe Peled
Boris Floricic
Also there is a suggestion the new cards may not be Nagra 3 at all. Cisco Systems have a press release recently which they agreed to supply Virgin Media with a lot of equipment. Last year, Virgin publicly announced their desire to launch a new IPTV platform, and some industry analysts are suggesting the entire network will be IPTV based, as opposed to its current platform.
Questions have been posed that some Pace units cannot handle Nagra 3 as the CAM is hardwired into these units rather than being upgradable, and Virgin have advised customers the new cards will work in all their previous units.
There is a lot of presumption going on right now, most of it being Nagra 3, but examining the company's business plan this does not make sense. IPTV makes far more sense, would also account for the issuing of new cards, and would be compatible with existing equipment apart from headend equipment. The Cisco announcement would account for the replacement headend equipment needed.
I thought Virgin Media stated that the card swap was only being done in limited areas?
Nope its countrywide,as it says on here the new cards are working their way across the country.
http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/help/smartcard/index.html
Therefore it is of no concern to Sky that people watch their channels for free via Virgin because Sky are suffering no financial loss.