I live in Bacup and would consider, as most people do, to be the most southern-eastly town of Lancashire. To the east is Todmorden (and they used to be part of Lancs, but they are really weird so are now part of Yorkshire) and to the south is Rochdale which most people would consider to be part of Greater Manchester.
I've only ever known Manchester and the surrounding area to be Greater Manchester first and possibly Lancashire second. Nowadays I consider Lancashire to be a completely separate country altogether.
I've only ever known Manchester and the surrounding area to be Greater Manchester first and possibly Lancashire second. Nowadays I consider Lancashire to be a completely separate country altogether.
:eek: Bit extreme! Does it have its own version of Alex Salmond?
Government Statement 1974: "The new county boundaries are for administrative areas and will not alter the traditional boundaries of counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change."
I'm just not sure why people would base their local identity on some local government reorganisation introduced by the Heath government in the 1970s.
Well, for younger people, the current admin boundaries are all they've ever known, so it's not surprising if they don't feel part of a "historic county" that has no obvious relevance to them.
Well, for younger people, the current admin boundaries are all they've ever known, so it's not surprising if they don't feel part of a "historic county" that has no obvious relevance to them.
Hmm I think it depends where you live. Ayrshire was completely obliterated by the 1974 changes (in an administrative sense) and returned in 1996 as 3 subdivisions - North, South and East - yet the idea of Ayrshire as one county still very much exists, even amongst younger people. I suspect it depends whether your location is more urban or rural. I can understand people in metropolitan areas feeling differently, feeling more a suburb of the city rather than the old county.
In an administrative context. Not in any other sense, not for me. Avon, Strathclyde, Humberside, Cleveland all show the failure of creating new 'counties' throwing centuries of history out the window. I refer you to the answer I gave some moments ago:
Government Statement 1974: "The new county boundaries are for administrative areas and will not alter the traditional boundaries of counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change."
I'm just not sure why people would base their local identity on some local government reorganisation introduced by the Heath government in the 1970s. By that rule I'd be a proud Strathclyder. Each to their own, of course, but the idea just seems alien to me
My home town was in Cheshire, but became part of Greater Manchester in 1974, because it's a cotton mill town though I always felt it had more in common with Lancashire than with rural parts of Cheshire, so I had no problem with it becoming part of a county containing it's Lancashire neighbours, I also have no problem with refering to it as Cheshire though, and have always written it's postal address as Cheshire, I think Lancashire/Cheshire can be used interchangebly with Greater Manchester.
I do believe that the ancient county of Lancashire is a Palatinate and the Duchy of Lancaster is a personal possession of the monarch
The Duchy covers the whole of the ancient county and as such the 'ceremonial' modern counties of Lancashire, Greater Manchester, Merseyside are subsidiary to the ancient county
By the way.............if you're driving north through Yorkshire you pass The Duchy on the your left hand side
I live in Manchester do regularly go to Liverpool because of work. I find both places to be Lancastrian. You can't wipe a thousand odd years under the carpet.
I regularly see letters to this day with Liverpool Lancashire or Manchester Lancashire
I am a Boltonian and a Lancastrian, The traditional borders of Lancashire were never altered by the 1974 Local Government Reorganisation Act., purely the administration within it, that's when Merseyside & Gtr Manchester were created within the traditional borders of Lancashire.
The traditional county is a County Palatine which has, at its head, Her Majesty the Queen as Duke of Lancaster.
manchester and liverpool are part of lancashire..as a lancastrian i dont recognise the new boundaries like merseyside...also barrow in furness and lake coniston are in lancashire and not cumbria..the old boundaries are correct and should be officially reinstated on the county signposts..of course we lancastrians will lose some fab bits ot territory like bowland back to yorkshire but it was never ours really and we will get our lake district furness region back :) westmorland should also be brought back officially
I'm from Bolton which is a borough of Manchester yet I would say I was from Lancashire and not Manchester
I question whether you are from Bolton, no Boltonian would say that Bolton is a borough of Manchester, as it is a totally incorrect statement.
Bolton lies within the administrative county of Greater Manchester, the majority of it lies within the traditional county of Lancashire, the south being Cheshire.
The 1974 Local Government Re-Organisation Act did NOT alter the traditional Lancashire borders but reorganised the administration within it.
That's why Bolton is in Lancashire, also Mr Eric Pickles the local Government minister has announced that towns, like Bolton, can add their traditional county name on their boundary road signs. In Bolton's case........Lancashire.
I question whether you are from Bolton, no Boltonian would say that Bolton is a borough of Manchester, as it is a totally incorrect statement.
Bolton lies within the administrative county of Greater Manchester, the majority of it lies within the traditional county of Lancashire, the south being Cheshire.
I'm no Boltonian but I know the general area well and I'm surprised that you think part of Bolton is in the traditional County of Cheshire. I think all of Bolton is and always has been in the traditional County Palatine of Lancashire. Or are you referring to Greater Manchester, part of which (including part of the City of Manchester) was land-grabbed from Cheshire?
I'm no Boltonian but I know the general area well and I'm surprised that you think part of Bolton is in the traditional County of Cheshire. I think all of Bolton is and always has been in the traditional County Palatine of Lancashire. Or are you referring to Greater Manchester, part of which (including part of the City of Manchester) was land-grabbed from Cheshire?
Manchester was always in Lancashire. Stockport was land-grabbed from Cheshire.
part of the ancient county goes round the east side of Manchester and ends up further north than the city centre...........it also sticks out into Yorkshire !
I am a Boltonian, and my address is Bolton Lancashire, but I think quite some time ago Bolton was connected with Coventry, hence the symbol of Bolton, an Elephant:)
Manchester was always in Lancashire. Stockport was land-grabbed from Cheshire.
Well now you are making it really complicated!
What I said was that Manchester (the City) land-grabbed part of Cheshire, which it did (Wythenshawe, Ringway Airport etc.). But Stockport land-grabbed part of Lancashire into Cheshire when it took over Reddish, but in turn got completely land-grabbed by Greater Manchester in the end. What goes around comes around!
None of which you might think affects the traditional Counties... or does it? I think it all depends on how long ago the land-grabbing was done. Reddish was grabbed nearly a Century ago into Cheshire but is still, I think, considered to be traditional Lancashire even though the rest of Stockport (and Wythenshawe etc.) is traditional Cheshire.
But I'm glad that road signs can now include traditional County names at the old boundaries.
My friend from Stockport always used to say you can pretty much map which parts of (Greater) Manchester are/were Cheshire and which are/were Lancashire, by the accent of the people who are from there. His parents and their generation were pretty accurate at it, so still "judge" people that way (assuming those people have lived their whole lives in the same place).
As for cricket - Gloucestershire's home ground is in Bristol (but they often play in Cheltenham and Gloucester) and many people don't consider the city to be in that county either.
Comments
It has a steam rail station with a nice little pub that does some good real ales, the trackside
:eek: Bit extreme! Does it have its own version of Alex Salmond?
and lancashire's headquarters is at Old Trafford
matches are also played at Stanley Park, Blackpool and Liverpool Cricket Club
signed - A Tyke
Cricket does not new fangled counties.
Hmm I think it depends where you live. Ayrshire was completely obliterated by the 1974 changes (in an administrative sense) and returned in 1996 as 3 subdivisions - North, South and East - yet the idea of Ayrshire as one county still very much exists, even amongst younger people. I suspect it depends whether your location is more urban or rural. I can understand people in metropolitan areas feeling differently, feeling more a suburb of the city rather than the old county.
My home town was in Cheshire, but became part of Greater Manchester in 1974, because it's a cotton mill town though I always felt it had more in common with Lancashire than with rural parts of Cheshire, so I had no problem with it becoming part of a county containing it's Lancashire neighbours, I also have no problem with refering to it as Cheshire though, and have always written it's postal address as Cheshire, I think Lancashire/Cheshire can be used interchangebly with Greater Manchester.
The Duchy covers the whole of the ancient county and as such the 'ceremonial' modern counties of Lancashire, Greater Manchester, Merseyside are subsidiary to the ancient county
By the way.............if you're driving north through Yorkshire you pass The Duchy on the your left hand side
I regularly see letters to this day with Liverpool Lancashire or Manchester Lancashire
The traditional county is a County Palatine which has, at its head, Her Majesty the Queen as Duke of Lancaster.
They are in the Metropolitan Borough of Trafford, part of Greater Manchester.
All the historic counties should be reinstated and governed along the original boundaries.
Hate all these "new" units,
For what benefit? Is more local decision making not a good thing?
I chuckled.
I question whether you are from Bolton, no Boltonian would say that Bolton is a borough of Manchester, as it is a totally incorrect statement.
Bolton lies within the administrative county of Greater Manchester, the majority of it lies within the traditional county of Lancashire, the south being Cheshire.
The 1974 Local Government Re-Organisation Act did NOT alter the traditional Lancashire borders but reorganised the administration within it.
That's why Bolton is in Lancashire, also Mr Eric Pickles the local Government minister has announced that towns, like Bolton, can add their traditional county name on their boundary road signs. In Bolton's case........Lancashire.
cheers .......:D
I'm no Boltonian but I know the general area well and I'm surprised that you think part of Bolton is in the traditional County of Cheshire. I think all of Bolton is and always has been in the traditional County Palatine of Lancashire. Or are you referring to Greater Manchester, part of which (including part of the City of Manchester) was land-grabbed from Cheshire?
It's interesting to look at a map of the old county of Cheshire, like this one.......
http://shissem.com/cheshiremap.jpg
part of the ancient county goes round the east side of Manchester and ends up further north than the city centre...........it also sticks out into Yorkshire !
Well now you are making it really complicated!
What I said was that Manchester (the City) land-grabbed part of Cheshire, which it did (Wythenshawe, Ringway Airport etc.). But Stockport land-grabbed part of Lancashire into Cheshire when it took over Reddish, but in turn got completely land-grabbed by Greater Manchester in the end. What goes around comes around!
None of which you might think affects the traditional Counties... or does it? I think it all depends on how long ago the land-grabbing was done. Reddish was grabbed nearly a Century ago into Cheshire but is still, I think, considered to be traditional Lancashire even though the rest of Stockport (and Wythenshawe etc.) is traditional Cheshire.
But I'm glad that road signs can now include traditional County names at the old boundaries.
As for cricket - Gloucestershire's home ground is in Bristol (but they often play in Cheltenham and Gloucester) and many people don't consider the city to be in that county either.