Genuine question, when there are other fatalities and if suicide is confirmed as the reason, is it still referred to as "murder"? I don't remember this being the case for example with the Moorgate crash years ago. Or is it called this because innocent lives were lost that were as a result of a man's action - regardless of the reason.
To me it seems Lubitz's actions were spur of the moment, the co pilot left the cockpit and in what was clearly a moment of insanity he just lost the plot. He must have had issues in his life for weeks, months or even years leading up to this, he seems to have had a successful career but was a bit of a loner, I took a look at his FB page and it's fairly sparse. Not that being a loner makes anyone a killer btw, but many infamous killers are loners, I'm rather insular myself, I have many acquaintances but no close friends, my kids and husband fill my time when I'm not working.
That's an unsafe assumption. He may have flown with that pilot several or many times, or flown that route many times, and known that it was normal for that person or a member of the flight crew on that route to get up and go walkabout around that point in the flight.
Until we know that that was the first time Lubbitz flew that route with that pilot, you can't assume that.
One thing - the passengers were apparently unaware unless the last few seconds what was going on. Surely the thumping on the door and trying to break it down would have been noticable
To me it seems Lubitz's actions were spur of the moment, the co pilot left the cockpit and in what was clearly a moment of insanity he just lost the plot. He must have had issues in his life for weeks, months or even years leading up to this, he seems to have had a successful career but was a bit of a loner, I took a look at his FB page and it's fairly sparse. Not that being a loner makes anyone a killer btw, but many infamous killers are loners, I'm rather insular myself, I have many acquaintances but no close friends, my kids and husband fill my time when I'm not working.
You may well be right but I doubt a muslim would have been given the same benefit of doubt. I note he hasn't been referred to as a "terrorist" by the media (the ones I've looked at, anyway).
Genuine question, when there are other fatalities and if suicide is confirmed as the reason, is it still referred to as "murder"? I don't remember this being the case for example with the Moorgate crash years ago.
That was never confirmed as suicide, many believe it was not. Firstly he had money in his pocket to give to his daughter to buy a car, secondly he was still in his seat and had not put his hand up over his face on impact. It will never be known what really happened.
If a pilot and co-pilot are the only 2 available to sit in the cockpit, on a trip Manchester to Barcelona for example - one or both may need the toilet during the flight, personally I never have seen a pilot make a toilet trip.......but nature calls
I was thinking re cubicle and pipes for waste and wee, but simplest idea would be to have 3 persons, so that one stays on watch while someone goes off to the WC. NASA I'm sure could help design something for an aircraft.
That was never confirmed as suicide, many believe it was not. Firstly he had money in his pocket to give to his daughter to buy a car, secondly he was still in his seat and had not put his hand up over his face on impact. It will never be known what really happened.
Yes - I did say if, but the latest reports say he was suffering depression and was "burnt out" so still possible surely.
One thing - the passengers were apparently unaware unless the last few seconds what was going on. Surely the thumping on the door and trying to break it down would have been noticable
Your ears pop and you become hard of hearing due to pressure on a plane. Also they could have pulled the curtain across, and the captain could have told the passengers everything was fine.
One thing - the passengers were apparently unaware unless the last few seconds what was going on. Surely the thumping on the door and trying to break it down would have been noticable
I was wondering about that.
Not that it's any consolation, that version of events may be better for the family. I cannot imagine knowing for a full eight minutes before impact what was coming. It just doesn't bear thinking
You may well be right but I doubt a muslim would have been given the same benefit of doubt. I note he hasn't been referred to as a "terrorist" by the media (the ones I've looked at, anyway).
Because there's no proof as of yet that he was a terrorist? No claims of responsibility, no notes or videos. No evidence of radicalization.
not related to this case, its just a development of the comments/ discussions around 'depression', whether its all the same, whether any of us can get it, and whether it matters, and whether people could or should be restricted in their work and when.
One thing - the passengers were apparently unaware unless the last few seconds what was going on. Surely the thumping on the door and trying to break it down would have been noticable
Yeah I was thinking that too. The pilot trying to break the door down would've surely created a lot of noise.
That's my point. If it was a muslim, the media wouldn't wait for such evidence as you mention.
Perhaps, but probably understandable. I still think it's unlikely any reputable news agency would call him a/the terrorist unless some of the proof I mentioned was found.
I was thinking re cubicle and pipes for waste and wee, but simplest idea would be to have 3 persons, so that one stays on watch while someone goes off to the WC. NASA I'm sure could help design something for an aircraft.
Jeeze, just seen a body closeup on CNN.:(
If you look at the clip of the cockpit safety video for Airbuses running on BBC News at the minute, you can see that the front lavvy for the flight crew is immediately aft of the cockpit door....but in front of the forward crew galley area...so would be separated from the passengers by a curtain anyway.
That's my point. If it was a muslim, the media wouldn't wait for such evidence as you mention.
If an Irish man went on mas shooting spree in the 80's the first thing people may have wondered is 'is this man a terrorist?' It's only natural for folk to make assumptions.
It took 149 people to make the changes, and what a price to pay, and hope rest of them follow suit.
It is just for show.
The truth is if a pilot wants to crash his plane he can do so and he cannot be stopped.
If the pilot is taking off he just needs to get up to take off speed and then throttle back. By the time the other pilot realised what was happening and tried to intervene it would be too late and the plane would not have time to be got back up to speed to be lifted before it hurtled off the runway.
Alternatively, the pilot on coming in to land, could just dive it at the last moment bringing it down well short of the runway.
Comments
That's an unsafe assumption. He may have flown with that pilot several or many times, or flown that route many times, and known that it was normal for that person or a member of the flight crew on that route to get up and go walkabout around that point in the flight.
Until we know that that was the first time Lubbitz flew that route with that pilot, you can't assume that.
Not really, many airlines already had this policy before this incident.
You may well be right but I doubt a muslim would have been given the same benefit of doubt. I note he hasn't been referred to as a "terrorist" by the media (the ones I've looked at, anyway).
That was never confirmed as suicide, many believe it was not. Firstly he had money in his pocket to give to his daughter to buy a car, secondly he was still in his seat and had not put his hand up over his face on impact. It will never be known what really happened.
I was thinking re cubicle and pipes for waste and wee, but simplest idea would be to have 3 persons, so that one stays on watch while someone goes off to the WC. NASA I'm sure could help design something for an aircraft.
Jeeze, just seen a body closeup on CNN.:(
Your ears pop and you become hard of hearing due to pressure on a plane. Also they could have pulled the curtain across, and the captain could have told the passengers everything was fine.
I was wondering about that.
Not that it's any consolation, that version of events may be better for the family. I cannot imagine knowing for a full eight minutes before impact what was coming. It just doesn't bear thinking
not related to this case, its just a development of the comments/ discussions around 'depression', whether its all the same, whether any of us can get it, and whether it matters, and whether people could or should be restricted in their work and when.
Yeah I was thinking that too. The pilot trying to break the door down would've surely created a lot of noise.
That's my point. If it was a muslim, the media wouldn't wait for such evidence as you mention.
Not to me it isn't but I suppose we can leave that debate for another thread.
Not everyone freezes in an emergency.
Probably won't be released to the public raw, but would be described and transcribed for the enquiry.
If you look at the clip of the cockpit safety video for Airbuses running on BBC News at the minute, you can see that the front lavvy for the flight crew is immediately aft of the cockpit door....but in front of the forward crew galley area...so would be separated from the passengers by a curtain anyway.
I think I remember something about planes being crashed by Muslims on purpose before.
If an Irish man went on mas shooting spree in the 80's the first thing people may have wondered is 'is this man a terrorist?' It's only natural for folk to make assumptions.
Has the past 14 years of news meant nothing to you?
It is just for show.
The truth is if a pilot wants to crash his plane he can do so and he cannot be stopped.
If the pilot is taking off he just needs to get up to take off speed and then throttle back. By the time the other pilot realised what was happening and tried to intervene it would be too late and the plane would not have time to be got back up to speed to be lifted before it hurtled off the runway.
Alternatively, the pilot on coming in to land, could just dive it at the last moment bringing it down well short of the runway.
Not all risks can be eliminated.
Maggie
Don't be daft.
Why does everything have to be a conspiracy or terrorism.
True although even any rare occurrences will prompt them to look at prevention measures
Like the crash in Germany in 2002 which reinforced regulations for air traffic control and TCAS.
(That crash immediately came to my mind when this news broke after hearing about the amount of children involved.)