And if you read that piece, you'll find he didn't want Natasha's mother to know. I find that very telling, he can't have wanted her to think badly of Natasha - fair enough, nobody wants to think badly of their children - but by association, if he'd told her mother about her drug habit, that would have reflected badly on him too.
That just sounds dreadfully arrogant.
He claimed she'd taken coke as a release from the panic attacks she had after her accident. Anyone who knows anything about drugs will tell you that taking coke will make the panic attacks worse, not better. Trying to justify himself when it was too late? I think so.
It seems you are selective over what you read in that article. It's obvious that Mark did feel responsible, rightly or wrongly, yet you choose to ignore that,
"In the course of the investigation I spoke to dozens of friends, colleagues and relatives, all of whom pointed towards the same depressing conclusion.
Rightly or wrongly, Speight blamed himself alone for the death of his beloved Tash, and this overwhelming feeling of culpability had driven him to the edge of sanity.
And while he felt tremendous gratitude towards Mrs Collins for standing by him, the fact that he was continuing to live in Natasha's family home, forgiven - even pitied - by her grieving mother, simply added to his feelings of self-revulsion.
Devastated: Natasha's mother Carmen Collins
He was clinically depressed, suffering from chronic insomnia and popping all manner of prescribed pills in an attempt to shake off his black moods. "
Also his friend later added:
""The truth is that they used coke fairly frequently, and he was the main driving force.
"But you have to understand that in our line of work [showbusiness] taking a line of coke is almost like having a cup of tea.
My point is this, the man was suffering, he was full of remorse, Yet people still want to carry on trying to punish him even beyond the grave.
It's perfectly possible to have a debate on what we do know rather than inventing fairy stories though.
you are very right. i find it hard to swallow all these people making assumptions and beliefs, especially around a tragic death, are posting things as fact...and acting as judge and juror. it makes me sad that people can be such a way.
It's perfectly possible to have a debate on what we do know rather than inventing fairy stories though.
Woowookid is the resident authority here on the Mark Speight tragedy. He knows more than any fm's who have been through similar tragic circumstances,
more than the families involved, he has the inside track on Mark and Natasha's deepest motivations. After all, he read an article about it once in the Daily Mail.
It doesn't sound arrogant to me, it sounds like he was rather naive/deluded about the dangers of taking drugs. Furthermore, as with many things there is always the assumption that it won't happen to me..
And that's it in a nutshell - 'It can't happen to me', but that's it - it can and does happen to you. You are those 'other people' we talk about.
I'm fairly sure 99% of people are aware exactly what drugs can do, after all it's publicised enough. At the age of 42 Mark must have been extremely naive if he'd no idea of the dangers.
As for your comments on coke, coke gives a sense of well being, alertness and self confidence in the short term. You are correct that in the longer term it can lead to tiredness/depression, chest pain and heart problems. Again people are often ignorant of the side effects that drugs can
have.
But they know that one outcome of long term cocaine use rots your septum - witness Daniella Westbrook, Tara P-T - again very well publicised. They know it can be cut with various harmful substances - rat poison for example. A killer if ever I heard of one.
The point is that none of us know all the answers yet you seem all to keen and eager to make Mark out to be some kind of awful person that none of us have the right to have any sympathy for.
I don't think he's worthy of sympathy for the simple reason he made the choice to take booze, coke and sleeping tabs to the extent he wasn't aware his girlfriend was dying in the next room. He made the choice to do it, no one held him down and forced him. He wasn't awful or evil, but he was an extremely foolish man, who tragically paid the price with his own life and that of his girlfriend for a few hours of being off his face.
He made mistakes, but he paid for those mistakes very dearly. I can't imagine the pain and suffering he went through in the last few weeks of his life....it must have been a living hell. That is why most people have at least some degree of sympathy for him.
And some people don't feel sympathy. That's the way of the world, we all share different opinions.
It doesn't mean we're inhuman, self righteous, moralistic or any of the labels that are thrown our way. We're just a little more realistic. I feel desperately sad for the families, they've done nothing to deserve what they're going through.
Mark took a risk and sadly paid the price.
Woowookid is the resident authority here on the Mark Speight tragedy. He knows more than any fm's who have been through similar tragic circumstances,
more than the families involved, he has the inside track on Mark and Natasha's deepest motivations. After all, he read an article about it once in the Daily Mail.
Female if you don't mind dear!
And where do you get your information? Papers TV and internet I'd guess - unless you are intimately aqcuainted with the people in question, the same places as the rest of us.
And some people don't feel sympathy. That's the way of the world, we all share different opinions.
You said it.....
It doesn't mean we're inhuman, self righteous, moralistic or any of the labels that are thrown our way. We're just a little more realistic. I feel desperately sad for the families, they've done nothing to deserve what they're going through.
Mark took a risk and sadly paid the price.
No, just means I have a different point of view on the whole thing, which, with respect, as we aren't living in Gordon Brown's Police State, (yet) I'm entitled to have.
And where do you get your information? Papers TV and internet I'd guess - unless you are intimately aqcuainted with the people in question, the same places as the rest of us.
The difference being I choose not to pontificate endlessly on the story, in the most pompous and overbearing manner possible, as if I know
the people involved and the full circumstances of their situation inside and out. Whereas you do, because you read about it in the Daily Mail.
The difference being I choose not to pontificate on the story in a pompous and overbearing manner, as if I know the people involved
and the full circumstances of the story inside and out. Whereas you do, because you read about it in the Daily Mail.
Since when was having a discussion 'pontificating'?
Most people on here have debated perfectly reasonably with me, despite them having a totally different opinion from mine and with no personal insults being flung about.
Perhaps you could 'choose' to join the debate yourself instead of going on here and on other threads about people getting stories from the DM.
You seem to have a bit of a 'thing' about it. What have they done to you?
The difference being I choose not to pontificate endlessly on the story, in the most pompous and overbearing manner possible, as if I know
the people involved and the full circumstances of their situation inside and out. Whereas you do, because you read about it in the Daily Mail.
You know it does amaze me actually, when you considering it is quite clear that pretty much everyone that knew Mark speaks of him fondly, that people who know nothing about the guy beyond what they read in the papers think they are in a better position to judge him than those that knew him in person. Astonishing really!!!
Since when was having a discussion 'pontificating'?
Most people on here have debated perfectly reasonably with me, despite them having a totally different opinion from mine and with no personal insults being flung about.
Perhaps you could 'choose' to join the debate yourself instead of going on here and on other threads about people getting stories from the DM.
You seem to have a bit of a 'thing' about it. What have they done to you?
Didn't mean to put you on the defensive. I realise the Mail is the fount of all knowledge to you, as you've relied on it exclusively in defence of your views here, and quoted it extensively.
But I have rather more time and respect for the opinions of people who have lived through similar circumstances, or the families involved in this tragedy,
than someone just getting their opinion on it secondhand from a rag like the Daily Mail, making out they have an insight on the subject and the people involved, when clearly they don't.
Realitysuck...an opinion that people form on whether they decide to give their sympathy to another person or not does not make them inhuman or self righteous, it is just their opinion which we are all entitled too. You are entitled to feel sympathy for Mark just as others including myself have the right not too. Our point of view is he chose to take a lethal mixture of cocaine, alcohol and prescribed drugs with his girlfriend and in one way or another they both paid the ultimate price for their actions. I do not hold the opinion that he forced Natasha into doing anything, as being adults they both had the choice at any time to say 'NO'
I find it hard to sympathise with someone by all accounts who was articulate,intelligent and well informed but still chose to get involved in hard drugs. In this day and age everybody knows what can happen and i do not subscrivbe to the fact of people saying 'it wont happen to me'
If neither had died would people still be feeling so much sympathy if they had just been caught and lost their jobs for drug taking? Death is the ultimate price and is tragic but should not paper over the reasons behind the death.
If neither had died would people still be feeling so much sympathy if they had just been caught and lost their jobs for drug taking? Death is the ultimate price and is tragic but should not paper over the reasons behind the death.
Of course. But don't you think they've paid the ultimate price? It's hardly a lesson learned is it, they're dead, they made bad choices, and the sympathy I feel is for their poor families and for their own stupidity.
I don't condone drugs, but of course I feel this whole matter is a tragedy. I don't feel personal loss and I don't feel I need a slice of the grief (so no RIP Mark, loved you on SMart type messages from me I'm afraid).
There is an awful lot of assumption, judgement and hypocrisy in the Mark Speight threads and all I can say on the matter is, I wish I was as perfect as some of the posters on here profess to be. I'm not, though, and I pay the price for my actions just like Mark and Natasha did.
Reality of course i think they have paid the ultimate price and that is my point really as to why i find it hard to sympathise with the situation. Both were consenting adults who realised the situation they would be putting themselves into, hence why i struggle with sympathy.
I do not proclaim to be perffect and have made foolish mistakes in my time, but is taking a lethal concoction of drugs and alcohol just a 'foolish act' To me this is a little more than that.
My sympathies to their families though and appreciate your point of view reality
According to this, (yes, I know it's the DM) Natasha's mother had no idea she was taking drugs. Just a few excerpts from the piece:
In the end after reading that piece, can you tell me who's truly worthy of our sympathy? A girl and her bloke who took copious amounts of drugs, booze and sleeping tablets and paid the price, or Natasha's mother, who lost another child at the age of two, her husband, and then another daughter? Mark and Natasha are out of their pain, Natasha's mother will have to live with the death of a daughter, and the man who contributed to that daughter's death, and whom she tried to help out of the goodness of her heart. That poor woman has to live with all that, I hope she has the strength to bear such a burden.
And if it turns out that Natasha's mother had a secret cocaine habit would you no longer be sympathetic to her;)
Reality of course i think they have paid the ultimate price and that is my point really as to why i find it hard to sympathise with the situation. Both were consenting adults who realised the situation they would be putting themselves into, hence why i struggle with sympathy.
I do not proclaim to be perffect and have made foolish mistakes in my time, but is taking a lethal concoction of drugs and alcohol just a 'foolish act' To me this is a little more than that.
My sympathies to their families though and appreciate your point of view reality
All I'm saying is that it costs nothing to have sympathy for someone in emotional pain whether they brought it on themselves or not. What good does it do to condemn somebody who was so broken up by what he had done that he took his own life?
I find it hard to sympathise with someone by all accounts who was articulate,intelligent and well informed but still chose to get involved in hard drugs. In this day and age everybody knows what can happen and i do not subscrivbe to the fact of people saying 'it wont happen to me'
So no-one who dies from taking drugs is worthy of any sympathy according to you. If it was your son, daughter, brother or sister caught up in that spiral of insidious addiction, not just a face off the telly who's seemingly fair game to have his motives and lifestyle picked over and judged by a bunch of strangers on a public forum even after his death, you still wouldn't feel anything.
If I didn't have any sympathy for the guy before reading some of the ill-informed, half-baked, reactionary, clueless, and downright offensive comments about him in here and on that other charming thread, most of them apparently gleaned from the nearest tabloid, I most certainly would afterwards.
As it is, I have absolute sympathy for him and the situation he found himself in, because all I can see in all this is a man in pain.
How can you judge him so harshly when you didn't even know him.
All I'm saying is that it costs nothing to have sympathy for someone in emotional pain whether they brought it on themselves or not. What good does it do to condemn somebody who was so broken up by what he had done that he took his own life?
Me too! Here's hoping Harris or woowoo are never put in a position in this world of grey where they are in need of sympathy but come across people who have as flawed logic as they do so they don't get that sympathy:(
Me too! Here's hoping Harris or woowoo are never put in a position in this world of grey where they are in need of sympathy but come across people who have as flawed logic as they do so they don't get that sympathy:(
WooWoo is a fan of Michael Aspel, so let's see how she reacts if Aspel is caught smoking cannabis :eek:
Every time you take drugs you are playing russian roulette. Unfortunatley, many people have the attitude that bad things happen to other people. I'm sure Mark and Natasha were aware of risks.
The whole thing is a tragic waste of two lives, and by all account they were lovely people. My sympathy lies with the family and friends they've left behind.
Me too! Here's hoping Harris or woowoo are never put in a position in this world of grey where they are in need of sympathy but come across people who have as flawed logic as they do so they don't get that sympathy:(
FYO I have been in that position when I lost both my parents within 4 months of each other back in 1994. Since then I've suffered intermittent bouts of depression, so I do have an insight, however small, as to how Mark felt. My parents died of cancer and the effects of Alzheimer's and a burst duodenal ulcer - neither my personal fault, but that didn't stop me feeling guilty. I didn't bleat or moan or look for sympathy from other people, I didn't take illegal drugs or blot it all out with vast amounts of booze. I had to get through it - I'd a husband and two children, I couldn't afford to go to pieces. My dad had had Alzheimer's for 8 years before he died, and that in itself is losing a loved one while they're still alive. I hope none of you ever have to go through seeing your parent become a shell of who and what they were.
We'll all go through life and have to face bereavement at one time or another, and most of us will pick ourselves up off the proverbial floor and try again. OK, Mark's guilt must have been tenfold compared to mine, but in the end he, and ONLY HE was the architect of his and Natasha's destruction.
Where were Mark's family in all this? It seems all he had to lean on was Natasha's mother. He was grieving, and guilt is the first stage you have to go through, finally reaching acceptance. It might take years, but it can be got through.
My whole take on this situation is that Mark isn't worth sympathy, as he brought it on himself by taking drugs in the first place. From what I've seen of him on TV, he seems capable of being quite manically happy, and perhaps off stage he could be capable of crippling lows. A seesaw of emotions may be a symptom of manic depression. Taking drugs will only make that worse, it's not a solution.
He and Natasha weren't bad or evil people, and I've never said that, but it doesn't stop them from being foolish, or arrogant enough to believe that death from drugs only happens to others.
Put things in proportion.
What about those lovely girls killed by a bus this week in Equador? They thought they were going on a wonderful trip, helping the local people, where they'd see things they'd never have an opportunity of seeing normally. Their lives are brutally cut short by a lorry driver who then runs away from the scene. They, along with their families are worthy of our sympathy - what happened to them wasn't engineered BY them. A man, along with his girlfriend, takes huge amounts of booze, coke and sleeping pills, something bound to have consequences of one kind or another. After she dies he can't live with the fact of his actions, and so kills himself - sorry if it offends you - isn't worthy of anything but being remembered as the architect of the destruction of not just his girlfriend, but himself.
FYO I have been in that position when I lost both my parents within 4 months of each other back in 1994. Since then I've suffered intermittent bouts of depression, so I do have an insight, however small, as to how Mark felt. My parents died of cancer and the effects of Alzheimer's and a burst duodenal ulcer - neither my personal fault, but that didn't stop me feeling guilty. I didn't bleat or moan or look for sympathy from other people, I didn't take illegal drugs or blot it all out with vast amounts of booze. I had to get through it - I'd a husband and two children, I couldn't afford to go to pieces. My dad had had Alzheimer's for 8 years before he died, and that in itself is losing a loved one while they're still alive. I hope none of you ever have to go through seeing your parent become a shell of who and what they were.
We'll all go through life and have to face bereavement at one time or another, and most of us will pick ourselves up off the proverbial floor and try again. OK, Mark's guilt must have been tenfold compared to mine, but in the end he, and ONLY HE was the architect of his and Natasha's destruction.
Where were Mark's family in all this? It seems all he had to lean on was Natasha's mother. He was grieving, and guilt is the first stage you have to go through, finally reaching acceptance. It might take years, but it can be got through.
My whole take on this situation is that Mark isn't worth sympathy, as he brought it on himself by taking drugs in the first place. From what I've seen of him on TV, he seems capable of being quite manically happy, and perhaps off stage he could be capable of crippling lows. A seesaw of emotions may be a symptom of manic depression. Taking drugs will only make that worse, it's not a solution.
He and Natasha weren't bad or evil people, and I've never said that, but it doesn't stop them from being foolish, or arrogant enough to believe that death from drugs only happens to others.
Put things in proportion. What about those lovely girls killed by a bus this week in Equador? They thought they were going on a wonderful trip, helping the local people, where they'd see things they'd never have an opportunity of seeing normally. Their lives are brutally cut short by a lorry driver who then runs away from the scene. They, along with their families are worthy of our sympathy - what happened to them wasn't engineered BY them. A man, along with his girlfriend, takes huge amounts of booze, coke and sleeping pills, something bound to have consequences of one kind or another. After she dies he can't live with the fact of his actions, and so kills himself - sorry if it offends you - isn't worthy of anything but being remembered as the architect of the destruction of not just his girlfriend, but himself.
What a total waste of two lives.
*Bows out of thread*
and how do you know those girls weren't recreational drug users, does that then make you less sympathetic?
and lucky you for being able to cope and not self medicate, not everyone is as fortunate as you, you clearly have strength of character which is commendable. Not everyone is that lucky and some people simply can't cope be that they were not raised with the right tools to do or genetic or any manner of reasons. Just because you haven't done something in the face of adversity doesn't mean that someone else who does doesn't deserve sympathy.
Your ordeal is horrible and the way you have dealt with is as I have said is commendable but that doesn't mean everyone is the same as you.
There is a place for us all on this planet and when life doesn't go in a nice way well as far as I am concerned, self medicaters, recreational users, abstainers anyone who finds themselves in a sad and lost position imo is deserving of sympathy.
A man, along with his girlfriend, takes huge amounts of booze, coke and sleeping pills, something bound to have consequences of one kind or another. After she dies he can't live with the fact of his actions, and so kills himself - sorry if it offends you - isn't worthy of anything but being remembered as the architect of the destruction of not just his girlfriend, but himself.
You seem rather keen to characterise Mr. Speight as 'the driver of the bus', ie. blaming him for Miss Collins' death, without any real knowledge of the facts of the case as far as I can see. And why you feel your personal story is even relevant here I have no idea. You've clearly demonstrated here you have no real knowledge of drug addiction either in your family, friends or personally, and no real experience or knowledge to justify judging and condemning an individual who you only know from a tabloid headline. Basically, you're bluffing. You don't know what you're talking about. I think most people here regard Mark and Natasha as both being passengers on a runaway bus, and neither of them had any control over it. Addiction is like that. It is an all-engulfing disease that takes over your life. And Mark and Natasha are as worthy of sympathy as anybody else caught in that situation.
Oh, and thanks for your rather hysterical pm, I clearly touched a raw nerve. If I'd known Daily Mail readers were so sensitive to criticism I would have backed off. Really.
Comments
It seems you are selective over what you read in that article. It's obvious that Mark did feel responsible, rightly or wrongly, yet you choose to ignore that,
"In the course of the investigation I spoke to dozens of friends, colleagues and relatives, all of whom pointed towards the same depressing conclusion.
Rightly or wrongly, Speight blamed himself alone for the death of his beloved Tash, and this overwhelming feeling of culpability had driven him to the edge of sanity.
And while he felt tremendous gratitude towards Mrs Collins for standing by him, the fact that he was continuing to live in Natasha's family home, forgiven - even pitied - by her grieving mother, simply added to his feelings of self-revulsion.
Devastated: Natasha's mother Carmen Collins
He was clinically depressed, suffering from chronic insomnia and popping all manner of prescribed pills in an attempt to shake off his black moods. "
Also his friend later added:
""The truth is that they used coke fairly frequently, and he was the main driving force.
"But you have to understand that in our line of work [showbusiness] taking a line of coke is almost like having a cup of tea.
My point is this, the man was suffering, he was full of remorse, Yet people still want to carry on trying to punish him even beyond the grave.
you are very right. i find it hard to swallow all these people making assumptions and beliefs, especially around a tragic death, are posting things as fact...and acting as judge and juror. it makes me sad that people can be such a way.
Woowookid is the resident authority here on the Mark Speight tragedy. He knows more than any fm's who have been through similar tragic circumstances,
more than the families involved, he has the inside track on Mark and Natasha's deepest motivations. After all, he read an article about it once in the Daily Mail.
And that's it in a nutshell - 'It can't happen to me', but that's it - it can and does happen to you. You are those 'other people' we talk about.
I'm fairly sure 99% of people are aware exactly what drugs can do, after all it's publicised enough. At the age of 42 Mark must have been extremely naive if he'd no idea of the dangers.
But they know that one outcome of long term cocaine use rots your septum - witness Daniella Westbrook, Tara P-T - again very well publicised. They know it can be cut with various harmful substances - rat poison for example. A killer if ever I heard of one.
I don't think he's worthy of sympathy for the simple reason he made the choice to take booze, coke and sleeping tabs to the extent he wasn't aware his girlfriend was dying in the next room. He made the choice to do it, no one held him down and forced him. He wasn't awful or evil, but he was an extremely foolish man, who tragically paid the price with his own life and that of his girlfriend for a few hours of being off his face.
And some people don't feel sympathy. That's the way of the world, we all share different opinions.
It doesn't mean we're inhuman, self righteous, moralistic or any of the labels that are thrown our way. We're just a little more realistic. I feel desperately sad for the families, they've done nothing to deserve what they're going through.
Mark took a risk and sadly paid the price.
Female if you don't mind dear!
And where do you get your information? Papers TV and internet I'd guess - unless you are intimately aqcuainted with the people in question, the same places as the rest of us.
You said it.....
err - I think it does actually......
Yes, and I stand by it too.
No, just means I have a different point of view on the whole thing, which, with respect, as we aren't living in Gordon Brown's Police State, (yet) I'm entitled to have.
The difference being I choose not to pontificate endlessly on the story, in the most pompous and overbearing manner possible, as if I know
the people involved and the full circumstances of their situation inside and out. Whereas you do, because you read about it in the Daily Mail.
Since when was having a discussion 'pontificating'?
Most people on here have debated perfectly reasonably with me, despite them having a totally different opinion from mine and with no personal insults being flung about.
Perhaps you could 'choose' to join the debate yourself instead of going on here and on other threads about people getting stories from the DM.
You seem to have a bit of a 'thing' about it. What have they done to you?
You know it does amaze me actually, when you considering it is quite clear that pretty much everyone that knew Mark speaks of him fondly, that people who know nothing about the guy beyond what they read in the papers think they are in a better position to judge him than those that knew him in person. Astonishing really!!!
Didn't mean to put you on the defensive. I realise the Mail is the fount of all knowledge to you, as you've relied on it exclusively in defence of your views here, and quoted it extensively.
But I have rather more time and respect for the opinions of people who have lived through similar circumstances, or the families involved in this tragedy,
than someone just getting their opinion on it secondhand from a rag like the Daily Mail, making out they have an insight on the subject and the people involved, when clearly they don't.
Realitysuck...an opinion that people form on whether they decide to give their sympathy to another person or not does not make them inhuman or self righteous, it is just their opinion which we are all entitled too. You are entitled to feel sympathy for Mark just as others including myself have the right not too. Our point of view is he chose to take a lethal mixture of cocaine, alcohol and prescribed drugs with his girlfriend and in one way or another they both paid the ultimate price for their actions. I do not hold the opinion that he forced Natasha into doing anything, as being adults they both had the choice at any time to say 'NO'
I find it hard to sympathise with someone by all accounts who was articulate,intelligent and well informed but still chose to get involved in hard drugs. In this day and age everybody knows what can happen and i do not subscrivbe to the fact of people saying 'it wont happen to me'
If neither had died would people still be feeling so much sympathy if they had just been caught and lost their jobs for drug taking? Death is the ultimate price and is tragic but should not paper over the reasons behind the death.
Of course. But don't you think they've paid the ultimate price? It's hardly a lesson learned is it, they're dead, they made bad choices, and the sympathy I feel is for their poor families and for their own stupidity.
I don't condone drugs, but of course I feel this whole matter is a tragedy. I don't feel personal loss and I don't feel I need a slice of the grief (so no RIP Mark, loved you on SMart type messages from me I'm afraid).
There is an awful lot of assumption, judgement and hypocrisy in the Mark Speight threads and all I can say on the matter is, I wish I was as perfect as some of the posters on here profess to be. I'm not, though, and I pay the price for my actions just like Mark and Natasha did.
I do not proclaim to be perffect and have made foolish mistakes in my time, but is taking a lethal concoction of drugs and alcohol just a 'foolish act' To me this is a little more than that.
My sympathies to their families though and appreciate your point of view reality
And if it turns out that Natasha's mother had a secret cocaine habit would you no longer be sympathetic to her;)
your logic is so flawed
All I'm saying is that it costs nothing to have sympathy for someone in emotional pain whether they brought it on themselves or not. What good does it do to condemn somebody who was so broken up by what he had done that he took his own life?
So no-one who dies from taking drugs is worthy of any sympathy according to you. If it was your son, daughter, brother or sister caught up in that spiral of insidious addiction, not just a face off the telly who's seemingly fair game to have his motives and lifestyle picked over and judged by a bunch of strangers on a public forum even after his death, you still wouldn't feel anything.
If I didn't have any sympathy for the guy before reading some of the ill-informed, half-baked, reactionary, clueless, and downright offensive comments about him in here and on that other charming thread, most of them apparently gleaned from the nearest tabloid, I most certainly would afterwards.
As it is, I have absolute sympathy for him and the situation he found himself in, because all I can see in all this is a man in pain.
How can you judge him so harshly when you didn't even know him.
Hear hear. I totally agree.
Me too! Here's hoping Harris or woowoo are never put in a position in this world of grey where they are in need of sympathy but come across people who have as flawed logic as they do so they don't get that sympathy:(
WooWoo is a fan of Michael Aspel, so let's see how she reacts if Aspel is caught smoking cannabis :eek:
The whole thing is a tragic waste of two lives, and by all account they were lovely people. My sympathy lies with the family and friends they've left behind.
FYO I have been in that position when I lost both my parents within 4 months of each other back in 1994. Since then I've suffered intermittent bouts of depression, so I do have an insight, however small, as to how Mark felt. My parents died of cancer and the effects of Alzheimer's and a burst duodenal ulcer - neither my personal fault, but that didn't stop me feeling guilty. I didn't bleat or moan or look for sympathy from other people, I didn't take illegal drugs or blot it all out with vast amounts of booze. I had to get through it - I'd a husband and two children, I couldn't afford to go to pieces. My dad had had Alzheimer's for 8 years before he died, and that in itself is losing a loved one while they're still alive. I hope none of you ever have to go through seeing your parent become a shell of who and what they were.
We'll all go through life and have to face bereavement at one time or another, and most of us will pick ourselves up off the proverbial floor and try again. OK, Mark's guilt must have been tenfold compared to mine, but in the end he, and ONLY HE was the architect of his and Natasha's destruction.
Where were Mark's family in all this? It seems all he had to lean on was Natasha's mother. He was grieving, and guilt is the first stage you have to go through, finally reaching acceptance. It might take years, but it can be got through.
http://sadly-missed.com/resources/seven_stages_of_grief.php
My whole take on this situation is that Mark isn't worth sympathy, as he brought it on himself by taking drugs in the first place. From what I've seen of him on TV, he seems capable of being quite manically happy, and perhaps off stage he could be capable of crippling lows. A seesaw of emotions may be a symptom of manic depression. Taking drugs will only make that worse, it's not a solution.
He and Natasha weren't bad or evil people, and I've never said that, but it doesn't stop them from being foolish, or arrogant enough to believe that death from drugs only happens to others.
Put things in proportion.
What about those lovely girls killed by a bus this week in Equador? They thought they were going on a wonderful trip, helping the local people, where they'd see things they'd never have an opportunity of seeing normally. Their lives are brutally cut short by a lorry driver who then runs away from the scene. They, along with their families are worthy of our sympathy - what happened to them wasn't engineered BY them. A man, along with his girlfriend, takes huge amounts of booze, coke and sleeping pills, something bound to have consequences of one kind or another. After she dies he can't live with the fact of his actions, and so kills himself - sorry if it offends you - isn't worthy of anything but being remembered as the architect of the destruction of not just his girlfriend, but himself.
What a total waste of two lives.
*Bows out of thread*
and how do you know those girls weren't recreational drug users, does that then make you less sympathetic?
and lucky you for being able to cope and not self medicate, not everyone is as fortunate as you, you clearly have strength of character which is commendable. Not everyone is that lucky and some people simply can't cope be that they were not raised with the right tools to do or genetic or any manner of reasons. Just because you haven't done something in the face of adversity doesn't mean that someone else who does doesn't deserve sympathy.
Your ordeal is horrible and the way you have dealt with is as I have said is commendable but that doesn't mean everyone is the same as you.
There is a place for us all on this planet and when life doesn't go in a nice way well as far as I am concerned, self medicaters, recreational users, abstainers anyone who finds themselves in a sad and lost position imo is deserving of sympathy.
You seem rather keen to characterise Mr. Speight as 'the driver of the bus', ie. blaming him for Miss Collins' death, without any real knowledge of the facts of the case as far as I can see. And why you feel your personal story is even relevant here I have no idea. You've clearly demonstrated here you have no real knowledge of drug addiction either in your family, friends or personally, and no real experience or knowledge to justify judging and condemning an individual who you only know from a tabloid headline. Basically, you're bluffing. You don't know what you're talking about. I think most people here regard Mark and Natasha as both being passengers on a runaway bus, and neither of them had any control over it. Addiction is like that. It is an all-engulfing disease that takes over your life. And Mark and Natasha are as worthy of sympathy as anybody else caught in that situation.
Oh, and thanks for your rather hysterical pm, I clearly touched a raw nerve. If I'd known Daily Mail readers were so sensitive to criticism I would have backed off. Really.