I too, am wondering about the Maldives sightings. There was an awful lot of people who said they saw it fly over, it does seem too many people to be involved in a cruel hoax. What was the outcome of round fire extinguisher thing that washed up - was that fake?
I also agree about DG, I am sure they did track the plane that night but to admit that would be to admit their true purpose and capabilities.
Still too many unanswered questions - how much fuel was the plane carrying? What was in the cargo hold, was it 4 tonnes of mangosteens even though we know they are not harvested until next month?
How do you fake IMMARSAT info? Probably not intentionally faked, it might be that just one calculation is slightly out, or a dec point is in the wrong place, i.e. some minor error which may have resulted in a search area miles from where they are.
Someones going to make a lot of money writing a book about this whole mystery.
BIB......yes an excellent posting there NG. Your comments along with Soos reminded me of a brilliant documentary which has been screened a few times and was on More4 only last week.
Hate going OT but it's about UFO sightings (said that now for those who want to pooh pooh and laugh.....just as i did). I gave it a chance and was impressed by the presenter. Not your usual geeky fruit loop type at all, but a very knowledgeable guy who used to work for BAE Systems and the MOD in security. Nick Pope for anyone wanting to Google about him.
He built a radio controlled Flying Saucer and along with help from several other people, flew the Saucer during dusk in close proximity to where they knew customers at a local Pub would be outside. He later spoke to each of them before disclosing what it was all about and everyone had differing opinions of shape and size, with one person even saying there were flashing lights on it (there were no lights). The purpose behind this was to show just how people see things very differently to others.
Back in the 60's an American Police Officer on patrol out in the wilderness saw what he described as a UFO descending. He followed it along a track and stopped his car in shock when he saw this 'oval shaped silvery object' on the ground with two figures outside in white overalls.
Next he knew they had gone back inside and the thing suddenly flew up and toward him at very high speed. He dived beneath the patrol car......and it went off as fast as it had appeared.
Needless to say when he made a report it was taken with a pinch of salt. But.......he had been in the vicinity of a Top Secret Military base (not Area 51).
Nick Pope established contact with someone who had actually worked there at the time who told him, "i remember it well. It was before the Moon landing and we were involved in research on collecting Moon dust....we used a helicopter which happened to be all silver".
I think most people know what a helicopter looks like!
It's a lengthy documentary but very intense viewing.
I think there's understandable frustration about how it's been handled by all concerned & the sentiment is a bit that the Chinese, unintentionally & obviously under a lot of pressure since most of the souls on board were their citizens, have possibly impeded the search as it took Echo away for a week or so from the area other pings were heard in as of course the Chinese pings rightly had to be checked out fully.
I understand why they did what they did & used the equipment they had available & announced they'd heard pings. I just wish they'd trusted more & got independent verification before announcing it in the way they did. If that makes sense.
search officials sent H.M.S. Echo, a British vessel equipped with highly sophisticated listening technology, to verify Haixun 01’s report. Several days later, Echo was quietly pulled from the area of the Chinese ship and sent to assist Ocean Shield, an Australian vessel also equipped with high-tech listening equipment that had detected four signals that search coordinators believed came from the plane’s flight recorders.
The delay in deploying Echo to join Ocean Shield may have cost searchers the opportunity to record more signals and narrow the underwater search area, officials say.
...which is what we've been saying in here for days, as it was obvious.
Bluefin-21 was programmed to hover some 30m above the surface for 16 hours but returned to the surface after just six.
"It happened in the very far corner of the area it’s searching,” US Navy Captain Mark Matthews said. "So they are just shifting the search box a little bit away from that deep water.”
Experts warn it could take between six weeks and two months to cover the entire search area.
... which may explain why Echo has been zapping about in part of the search area while Ocean Shield remains doing stuff in another. Hopefully, it's only that one corner that is the deepwater problem.
BIB......yes an excellent posting there NG. Your comments along with Soos reminded me of a brilliant documentary which has been screened a few times and was on More4 only last week.
Hate going OT but it's about UFO sightings (said that now for those who want to pooh pooh and laugh.....just as i did). I gave it a chance and was impressed by the presenter. Not your usual geeky fruit loop type at all, but a very knowledgeable guy who used to work for BAE Systems and the MOD in security. Nick Pope for anyone wanting to Google about him.
He built a radio controlled Flying Saucer and along with help from several other people, flew the Saucer during dusk in close proximity to where they knew customers at a local Pub would be outside. He later spoke to each of them before disclosing what it was all about and everyone had differing opinions of shape and size, with one person even saying there were flashing lights on it (there were no lights). The purpose behind this was to show just how people see things very differently to others.
Back in the 60's an American Police Officer on patrol out in the wilderness saw what he described as a UFO descending. He followed it along a track and stopped his car in shock when he saw this 'oval shaped silvery object' on the ground with two figures outside in white overalls.
Next he knew they had gone back inside and the thing suddenly flew up and toward him at very high speed. He dived beneath the patrol car......and it went off as fast as it had appeared.
Needless to say when he made a report it was taken with a pinch of salt. But.......he had been in the vicinity of a Top Secret Military base (not Area 51).
Nick Pope established contact with someone who had actually worked there at the time who told him, "i remember it well. It was before the Moon landing and we were involved in research on collecting Moon dust....we used a helicopter which happened to be all silver".
I think most people know what a helicopter looks like!
It's a lengthy documentary but very intense viewing.
I've seen many UFO documentaries with Nick Pope. I admit to an interest in UFO's although I admit I do believe that 99.9% of sightings can be rationally explained away
I completely agree about how unreliable eyewitness testimony can be. I've seen programmes proving exactly how unreliable it is.
... which may explain why Echo has been zapping about in part of the search area while Ocean Shield remains doing stuff in another. Hopefully, it's only that one corner that is the deepwater problem.
I too, am wondering about the Maldives sightings. There was an awful lot of people who said they saw it fly over, it does seem too many people to be involved in a cruel hoax. What was the outcome of round fire extinguisher thing that washed up - was that fake?
I also agree about DG, I am sure they did track the plane that night but to admit that would be to admit their true purpose and capabilities.
Still too many unanswered questions - how much fuel was the plane carrying? What was in the cargo hold, was it 4 tonnes of mangosteens even though we know they are not harvested until next month?
How do you fake IMMARSAT info? Probably not intentionally faked, it might be that just one calculation is slightly out, or a dec point is in the wrong place, i.e. some minor error which may have resulted in a search area miles from where they are.
Someones going to make a lot of money writing a book about this whole mystery.
I did find another link about the fire compression bottle via twitter , which l can't find at the moment, which said that the authorities in the Maldives had handed it over to the authorities in Malaysia.
Re the "maldives connection", not only were there several people who reported a large plane, marked with a red stripe, flying low over the maldives, but that passenger on a plane flying to Kuala Lumpar who claimed to have spotted a plane lying in water, BEFORE she even knew about MH 370 disappearance.
I did find another link about the fire compression bottle via twitter , which l can't find at the moment, which said that the authorities in the Maldives had handed it over to the authorities in Malaysia.
Re the "maldives connection", not only were there several people who reported a large plane, marked with a red stripe, flying low over the maldives, but that passenger on a plane flying to Kuala Lumpar who claimed to have spotted a plane lying in water, BEFORE she even knew about MH 370 disappearance.
Oh see, now you've done it. I followed your link, which led me to a link to the discussion on pprunes...and now I've got a thread that's 503 pages long & counting to read through
BIB......yes an excellent posting there NG. Your comments along with Soos reminded me of a brilliant documentary which has been screened a few times and was on More4 only last week.
I won't quote your full posting BG, but just to add a few comments along similar lines, with regard to eyewitnesses who describe what they think they might have seen (or want to have seen!), rather than what they actually saw.
There are some interesting (unattributed) quotes about the claimed sighting.
The residents said the jet was "a white aircraft with red stripes across it, which is what Malaysia Airlines planes typically look like."
No, they don't!
MH370 was only white on top. The underside was grey and it certainly didn't have red stripes! (Note the plural "stripes")
One witness told HaveeruOnline: "I've never seen a jet flying so low over our island before. We've seen seaplanes, but I’m sure that this was not one of those. I could even make out the doors on the plane clearly."
The plane would have to be very close to "make out the doors clearly", and at that distance I'd expect other details to be "quite clear" such as the red and blue stripe, the grey underside, a very obvious red and blue logo on the tail, and the word malaysia written in big letters next to one of the doors!
No mention of any of those details, but they noticed the doors?
Just for a laugh (answers not required), what features would you notice about the plane in this photo*? (This is the actual missing aircraft)
* Obviously, I don't know from what angle the plane was seen, but if it was from directly below (so the "malaysia" lettering couldn't be seen) the white topside wouldn't be visible (so why describe it as white), and I doubt the doors on the sides, or the "red stripes" would be clearly seen.
Re the "maldives connection", not only were there several people who reported a large plane, marked with a red stripe, flying low over the maldives, but that passenger on a plane flying to Kuala Lumpar who claimed to have spotted a plane lying in water, BEFORE she even knew about MH 370 disappearance.
Oooh thats interesting, I haven't heard that one before.
I also agree about DG, I am sure they did track the plane that night but to admit that would be to admit their true purpose and capabilities.
I really can't see why, if they did track the plane, they'd deny it.
It's a well-known US military base, and home to strategic bombers (photos of B-2 Spirit bombers taken on Diego Garcia are widely available on the internet) so I doubt anyone would imagine they didn't have sophisticated radar. However, over-the-horizon radar is hardly a big secret these days.
In the 70's and 80's, the US had OTH radar which could track targets at any altitude at a distance of over 1,900 miles, so to now admit the ability to track a dirty great big, relatively slow moving, high-flying, decidedly non-stealthy aircraft at 2,000 miles wouldn't exactly raise any eyebrows in Moscow, Beijing or anywhere else!
The obvious question is: why didn't they track it? Probably because nobody asked them in time, and they don't sit there tracking civil aircraft for a bit of fun. That's a job for civil ATC.
I won't quote your full posting BG, but just to add a few comments along similar lines, with regard to eyewitnesses who describe what they think they might have seen (or want to have seen!), rather than what they actually saw.
There are some interesting (unattributed) quotes about the claimed sighting.
The residents said the jet was "a white aircraft with red stripes across it, which is what Malaysia Airlines planes typically look like."
No, they don't!
MH370 was only white on top. The underside was grey and it certainly didn't have red stripes! (Note the plural "stripes")
One witness told HaveeruOnline: "I've never seen a jet flying so low over our island before. We've seen seaplanes, but I’m sure that this was not one of those. I could even make out the doors on the plane clearly."
The plane would have to be very close to "make out the doors clearly", and at that distance I'd expect other details to be "quite clear" such as the red and blue stripe, the grey underside, a very obvious red and blue logo on the tail, and the word malaysia written in big letters next to one of the doors!
No mention of any of those details, but they noticed the doors?
This is always a problem in any eye witness event and Nick Pope showed it really well in that documentary. I was amazed at how extremely varied the sightings were. Some saw "a long cigar shaped object" whilst others saw " a round flat saucer shaped object". Quite a marked difference.
I think the eyewitness reports should have been taken more seriously than what they appear to have been and listened to. They seem to have been ignored.
This is always a problem in any eye witness event and Nick Pope showed it really well in that documentary. I was amazed at how extremely varied the sightings were. Some saw "a long cigar shaped object" whilst others saw " a round flat saucer shaped object". Quite a marked difference.
I think the eyewitness reports should have been taken more seriously than what they appear to have been and listened to. They seem to have been ignored.
I see it's got the undercarriage down so i'd say it's a plane coming in to land. :cool:
The flaps are extended to reduce speed, also indicating a landing approach, but not full flaps to obviously not very close to landing or full flaps not necessary for that approach.
I think there's understandable frustration about how it's been handled by all concerned & the sentiment is a bit that the Chinese, unintentionally & obviously under a lot of pressure since most of the souls on board were their citizens, have possibly impeded the search as it took Echo away for a week or so from the area other pings were heard in as of course the Chinese pings rightly had to be checked out fully.
I understand why they did what they did & used the equipment they had available & announced they'd heard pings. I just wish they'd trusted more & got independent verification before announcing it in the way they did. If that makes sense.
Hopefully they won't complain if MH370 takes even longer to find now !
Re the "maldives connection", not only were there several people who reported a large plane, marked with a red stripe, flying low over the maldives, but that passenger on a plane flying to Kuala Lumpar who claimed to have spotted a plane lying in water, BEFORE she even knew about MH 370 disappearance.
If I remember correctly, the passenger claimed to have spotted not just an aircraft, but specifically the "tail and wing" of a plane from an altitude of over six miles!
Of course, that would be over six miles straight down. Looking out of the window at an angle would increase the distance somewhat, so if it was in the region of 45 degrees, the "tail and wing" would have been the best part of nine miles away!
I think the eyewitness reports should have been taken more seriously than what they appear to have been and listened to. They seem to have been ignored.
I don't think they were ignored. There was an official statement to the effect that "The police are looking into the reports in the media saying that a low-flying airplane was sighted above Kuda Huvadhoo".
The cynic in me would suggest the reason it's gone quiet is because (as I mentioned about another piece of "evidence") the media tends not to write stories about how their headline feature was a non-event!
P.S. Has the Daily Mail run a story about how we didn't get 100 days of snow this winter?
I don't think they were ignored. There was an official statement to the effect that "The police are looking into the reports in the media saying that a low-flying airplane was sighted above Kuda Huvadhoo".
The cynic in me would suggest the reason it's gone quiet is because (as I mentioned about another piece of "evidence") the media tends not to write stories about how their headline feature was a non-event!
P.S. Has the Daily Mail run a story about how we didn't get 100 days of snow this winter?
A funny piece on Ch4 News last night about when UK opened the "flood barriers" in January for "swarms of Romanians and Bulgarians".
BROADCAST ALERT: Tonight at 7 pm EST tune into Erin Burnett OutFront on CNN for a live interview from Sarah Bajc. As there has still been ZERO debris found and many experts have agreed that is impossible, Sarah will discuss how the families are organizing and increasingly frustrated at the incompetence consistently displayed by the Malaysian Government and therefore they want them to step down leaders of the investigation of this crime as well continue to have other scenarios explored.
Just found this on the Finding Philip page. Sarah is still convinced the plane did not go in the sea.
Toowoomba only halfway to Exmouth and on a go-slow!
Toowoomba slowed and did a back-track at around 300 miles out, in an area where you wouldn't expect to see any debris, though it may obviously have seen something. Then it resumed its original heading at 9 knots. But I wonder if it's launched its helicopter to deliver the package to that RAAF station? It's within range to do that and if so, I'd expect it to do another about-turn later tonight, once the copter has refuelled and returned. It's odd how it keeps doing those 23 knot runs then slows again.
CNN just had an interview with a NZ guy who's (I think) in charge of the air operations. He was asked about the oil samples and he said their on board a ship "which is on it's way to Perth". The sample will then be transferred ashore by helicopter.
Cesar Chavez has almost reached Perth (Toowoomba was never heading in that direction), and Cesar Chavez has a heli-pad at the back, so it seems to tie in.
Cheers for that, I guess that sorts it out then! But it doesn't explain what Toowoomba's up to. We must be told! I see that as we speak, Cesar Chavez has arrived 2 miles off Fremantle so the oily deed has probably been done or is imminent.
Cheers for that, I guess that sorts it out then! But it doesn't explain what Toowoomba's up to. We must be told! I see that as we speak, Cesar Chavez has arrived 2 miles off Fremantle so the oily deed has probably been done or is imminent.
Well, my last guess was a million miles out ... but it could be that vessels in the shipping lanes to the north west of Australia have reported some debris, and at this stage everything's got to be checked out.
There are now two minute updates on Cesar Chavez at marinetfaffic.com, you can almost see it moving in real time as it turns towards Fremantle harbour or the naval base (or wherever).
That's a huge improvement over the erratic deep-sea satellite updates, when the ships are near land.
There are now two minute updates on Cesar Chavez at marinetfaffic.com, you can almost see it moving in real time as it turns towards Fremantle harbour or the naval base (or wherever).
That's a huge improvement over the erratic deep-sea satellite updates, when the ships are near land.
Typical..........just as you've said that i lose tracking facility! Though i've still got the full mapping etc, its not letting me track any ship.
Comments
Hate going OT but it's about UFO sightings (said that now for those who want to pooh pooh and laugh.....just as i did). I gave it a chance and was impressed by the presenter. Not your usual geeky fruit loop type at all, but a very knowledgeable guy who used to work for BAE Systems and the MOD in security. Nick Pope for anyone wanting to Google about him.
He built a radio controlled Flying Saucer and along with help from several other people, flew the Saucer during dusk in close proximity to where they knew customers at a local Pub would be outside. He later spoke to each of them before disclosing what it was all about and everyone had differing opinions of shape and size, with one person even saying there were flashing lights on it (there were no lights). The purpose behind this was to show just how people see things very differently to others.
Back in the 60's an American Police Officer on patrol out in the wilderness saw what he described as a UFO descending. He followed it along a track and stopped his car in shock when he saw this 'oval shaped silvery object' on the ground with two figures outside in white overalls.
Next he knew they had gone back inside and the thing suddenly flew up and toward him at very high speed. He dived beneath the patrol car......and it went off as fast as it had appeared.
Needless to say when he made a report it was taken with a pinch of salt. But.......he had been in the vicinity of a Top Secret Military base (not Area 51).
Nick Pope established contact with someone who had actually worked there at the time who told him, "i remember it well. It was before the Moon landing and we were involved in research on collecting Moon dust....we used a helicopter which happened to be all silver".
I think most people know what a helicopter looks like!
It's a lengthy documentary but very intense viewing.
There are certainly rumblings in the media (reporting search agency sources) about the Chinese efforts, e.g. NY Times yesterday http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/15/world/asia/chinas-efforts-in-hunt-for-plane-are-seen-as-hurting-more-than-helping.html?_r=0 e.g. :
...which is what we've been saying in here for days, as it was obvious.
There is more on that, and an interesting summary of recent developments, in the Mirror's update page at http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/flight-mh370-live-black-box-3398513 , e.g.
... which may explain why Echo has been zapping about in part of the search area while Ocean Shield remains doing stuff in another. Hopefully, it's only that one corner that is the deepwater problem.
There are some fascinating maps of the search area at NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/03/17/world/asia/search-for-flight-370.html
I've seen many UFO documentaries with Nick Pope. I admit to an interest in UFO's although I admit I do believe that 99.9% of sightings can be rationally explained away
I completely agree about how unreliable eyewitness testimony can be. I've seen programmes proving exactly how unreliable it is.
Some very interesting links there, thank you for these. Those maps are hugely informative
http://www.maldivesfinest.com/mh370-evidence
I did find another link about the fire compression bottle via twitter , which l can't find at the moment, which said that the authorities in the Maldives had handed it over to the authorities in Malaysia.
Re the "maldives connection", not only were there several people who reported a large plane, marked with a red stripe, flying low over the maldives, but that passenger on a plane flying to Kuala Lumpar who claimed to have spotted a plane lying in water, BEFORE she even knew about MH 370 disappearance.
Oh see, now you've done it. I followed your link, which led me to a link to the discussion on pprunes...and now I've got a thread that's 503 pages long & counting to read through
I won't quote your full posting BG, but just to add a few comments along similar lines, with regard to eyewitnesses who describe what they think they might have seen (or want to have seen!), rather than what they actually saw.
There are some interesting (unattributed) quotes about the claimed sighting.
The residents said the jet was "a white aircraft with red stripes across it, which is what Malaysia Airlines planes typically look like."
No, they don't!
MH370 was only white on top. The underside was grey and it certainly didn't have red stripes! (Note the plural "stripes")
One witness told HaveeruOnline: "I've never seen a jet flying so low over our island before. We've seen seaplanes, but I’m sure that this was not one of those. I could even make out the doors on the plane clearly."
The plane would have to be very close to "make out the doors clearly", and at that distance I'd expect other details to be "quite clear" such as the red and blue stripe, the grey underside, a very obvious red and blue logo on the tail, and the word malaysia written in big letters next to one of the doors!
No mention of any of those details, but they noticed the doors?
Just for a laugh (answers not required), what features would you notice about the plane in this photo*? (This is the actual missing aircraft)
http://regmedia.co.uk/2014/03/18/boeing_777_9m-mro_mh370.jpg
* Obviously, I don't know from what angle the plane was seen, but if it was from directly below (so the "malaysia" lettering couldn't be seen) the white topside wouldn't be visible (so why describe it as white), and I doubt the doors on the sides, or the "red stripes" would be clearly seen.
Oooh thats interesting, I haven't heard that one before.
Found it in the DM - where else
I really can't see why, if they did track the plane, they'd deny it.
It's a well-known US military base, and home to strategic bombers (photos of B-2 Spirit bombers taken on Diego Garcia are widely available on the internet) so I doubt anyone would imagine they didn't have sophisticated radar. However, over-the-horizon radar is hardly a big secret these days.
In the 70's and 80's, the US had OTH radar which could track targets at any altitude at a distance of over 1,900 miles, so to now admit the ability to track a dirty great big, relatively slow moving, high-flying, decidedly non-stealthy aircraft at 2,000 miles wouldn't exactly raise any eyebrows in Moscow, Beijing or anywhere else!
The obvious question is: why didn't they track it? Probably because nobody asked them in time, and they don't sit there tracking civil aircraft for a bit of fun. That's a job for civil ATC.
I think the eyewitness reports should have been taken more seriously than what they appear to have been and listened to. They seem to have been ignored.
I see it's got the undercarriage down so i'd say it's a plane coming in to land. :cool:
The flaps are extended to reduce speed, also indicating a landing approach, but not full flaps to obviously not very close to landing or full flaps not necessary for that approach.
Hopefully they won't complain if MH370 takes even longer to find now !
If I remember correctly, the passenger claimed to have spotted not just an aircraft, but specifically the "tail and wing" of a plane from an altitude of over six miles!
Of course, that would be over six miles straight down. Looking out of the window at an angle would increase the distance somewhat, so if it was in the region of 45 degrees, the "tail and wing" would have been the best part of nine miles away!
This is what the world looks like from 35,000ft.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8Dmh58zfsDw/Tmw5s9zG9DI/AAAAAAAAEHM/JKzsSp1sq-4/s1600/P1030968+cropped.JPG
Who needs the Hubble Telescope with her around?
I don't think they were ignored. There was an official statement to the effect that "The police are looking into the reports in the media saying that a low-flying airplane was sighted above Kuda Huvadhoo".
The cynic in me would suggest the reason it's gone quiet is because (as I mentioned about another piece of "evidence") the media tends not to write stories about how their headline feature was a non-event!
P.S. Has the Daily Mail run a story about how we didn't get 100 days of snow this winter?
Just one turned up!
Just found this on the Finding Philip page. Sarah is still convinced the plane did not go in the sea.
Toowoomba only halfway to Exmouth and on a go-slow!
Toowoomba slowed and did a back-track at around 300 miles out, in an area where you wouldn't expect to see any debris, though it may obviously have seen something. Then it resumed its original heading at 9 knots. But I wonder if it's launched its helicopter to deliver the package to that RAAF station? It's within range to do that and if so, I'd expect it to do another about-turn later tonight, once the copter has refuelled and returned. It's odd how it keeps doing those 23 knot runs then slows again.
We shall hopefully find out in the morning!
Cesar Chavez has almost reached Perth (Toowoomba was never heading in that direction), and Cesar Chavez has a heli-pad at the back, so it seems to tie in.
Meanwhile, the new search update is just out http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releases/2014/april/mr023.aspx and there's nothing of significance in it except that nothing was found in Bluefin-21's first (abbreviated) mission:
Well, my last guess was a million miles out ... but it could be that vessels in the shipping lanes to the north west of Australia have reported some debris, and at this stage everything's got to be checked out.
That's a huge improvement over the erratic deep-sea satellite updates, when the ships are near land.
Maybe the site suffers from overload!!
**edit: got it back now after continual refresh!!
Oh... two tugs now on the move - ready for Cesar Chavez action!
CNN [is doing] did a lengthy analysis of the current situation just now.