Farage blew it today.

oathyoathy Posts: 32,629
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IMHO One of his worst speeches
huge mistake on the story on the train and not hearing any English it was perfectly
feasible a group from Abroad was there. no doubt various papers will try and prove that. Would have been much more effective sticking on the extra pressures local services are suffering and considering the present the ONS gave him on the Migration numbers whilst used he made nothing. If anything his attacks were more focused on Labour and the Libdems it almost felt like his stance with the Tories was getting softer.

Normally his speeches have a lot of charisma there was nothing like that today
his Q&A with the press later also seemed very uneasy getting into Quite a mess over the Question on Gay Marriage and would they repeal the laws etc.
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  • trunkstertrunkster Posts: 14,468
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    oathy wrote: »
    IMHO One of his worst speeches
    huge mistake on the story on the train and not hearing any English it was perfectly
    feasible a group from Abroad was there. no doubt various papers will try and prove that. Would have been much more effective sticking on the extra pressures local services are suffering and considering the present the ONS gave him on the Migration numbers whilst used he made nothing. If anything his attacks were more focused on Labour and the Libdems it almost felt like his stance with the Tories was getting softer.

    Normally his speeches have a lot of charisma there was nothing like that today
    his Q&A with the press later also seemed very uneasy getting into Quite a mess over the Question on Gay Marriage and would they repeal the laws etc.

    Let the voters decide, I bet his party gets more votes than any re invented 'true left wing party' :D
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
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    Farage can't blow it. Everything he does and says is comparatively sincere.

    Other politicians could learn a thing or too.


    And that's coming from a pro-EU liberal. I'd rather vote for Farage than Clegg; not that I would though.
  • BelfastGuy125BelfastGuy125 Posts: 7,515
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    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    Farage can't blow it. Everything he does and says is comparatively sincere.

    Other politicians could learn a thing or too.


    And that's coming from a pro-EU liberal. I'd rather vote for Farage than Clegg; not that I would though.

    Lol yeh ok.

    Farage would sell any of us down the river just as fast as the rest of Westminster.
  • trunkstertrunkster Posts: 14,468
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    Lol yeh ok.

    Farage would sell any of us down the river just as fast as the rest of Westminster.

    Ok supporter of the status quo.
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
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    Lol yeh ok.

    Farage would sell any of us down the river just as fast as the rest of Westminster.

    I think you've missed my point.

    Farage is a xenophobic and old-fashioned imbecilic like character, but he's still got more backbone, more conviction and more sincerity than Cameron, Miliband and Clegg put together.

    Boris Johnson is broadly similar - The only other mainstream politician that speaks his mind.

    I don't like either of them, ideologically, I largely disagree with them.. but they don't come across as devious, U-turning, scheming politicians.. they may have unacceptable views but they are upfront about it. They give their position then don't wiggle out of it like jelly.

    If Cameron, Clegg or Miliband say anything it's hard to know where the lies begin (that's assuming there's any truth there in the first place).

    And as I said before, this is coming from somebody who wouldn't even vote for UKIP.. which to me says we have a serious political problem in this country.

    I'd love there to be a liberal or left-wing Farage! A politician with a bit of bloody backbone and conviction that's pro-EU and has some compassion, who isn't trying to justify his/her existence all the time but actually says "things should be like XYZ". A politician with an actual dream rather than one just trying to win elections for power/money.
  • Biffo the BearBiffo the Bear Posts: 25,859
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    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    I think you've missed my point.

    Farage is a xenophobic and old-fashioned imbecilic like character, but he's still got more backbone, more conviction and more sincerity than Cameron, Miliband and Clegg put together.

    Boris Johnson is broadly similar - The only other mainstream politician that speaks his mind.

    I don't like either of them, ideologically, I largely disagree with them.. but they don't come across as devious, U-turning, scheming politicians.. they may have unacceptable views but they are upfront about it. They give their position then don't wiggle out of it like jelly.

    If Cameron, Clegg or Miliband say anything it's hard to know where the lies begin (that's assuming there's any truth there in the first place).

    And as I said before, this is coming from somebody who wouldn't even vote for UKIP.. which to me says we have a serious political problem in this country.

    I'd love there to be a liberal or left-wing Farage! A politician with a bit of bloody backbone and conviction that's pro-EU and has some compassion, who isn't trying to justify his/her existence all the time but actually says "things should be like XYZ". A politician with an actual dream rather than one just trying to win elections for power/money.

    Yes, you see this a lot on QT.

    Whenever one of the main three get asked an awkward question, depending on their skill level, they'll either:

    a. Go blank for a couple of seconds while trying to think of an answer to please everyone (because it's something they haven't been briefed on) or,

    b. Divert it to something completely different to try and drop a soundbite.

    Whatever you think of the likes of Farage, Boris Johson, even Dennis Skinner - they say what they say and you know what they stand for. There's none of that political obfuscation that infests the normal party faithful.
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
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    Yes, you see this a lot on QT.

    Whenever one of the main three get asked an awkward question, depending on their skill level, they'll either:

    a. Go blank for a couple of seconds while trying to think of an answer to please everyone (because it's something they haven't been briefed on) or,

    b. Divert it to something completely different to try and drop a soundbite.

    Whatever you think of the likes of Farage, Boris Johson, even Dennis Skinner - they say what they say and you know what they stand for. There's none of that political obfuscation that infests the normal party faithful.

    Christ I mean the same thing even applies to Thatcher, and I say that with a very heavy heart.

    She did many things wrong, and she should have listened more, but by god did she have conviction and strength.

    I can't even watch QT any more, it's a sad, sad, almost embarrassing spectacle to see. Even the better Labour and Liberal politicians squirm and wriggle just as much as the worst Tories. Not one of them with anything worth listening too.. just deflective (and sometimes derogatory) waffle.

    It's like they hold genuine contempt for the electorate and it's all a big game to them.

    >:(
  • BelfastGuy125BelfastGuy125 Posts: 7,515
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    Hypnodisc wrote: »
    I think you've missed my point.

    Farage is a xenophobic and old-fashioned imbecilic like character, but he's still got more backbone, more conviction and more sincerity than Cameron, Miliband and Clegg put together.

    Boris Johnson is broadly similar - The only other mainstream politician that speaks his mind.

    I don't like either of them, ideologically, I largely disagree with them.. but they don't come across as devious, U-turning, scheming politicians.. they may have unacceptable views but they are upfront about it. They give their position then don't wiggle out of it like jelly.

    If Cameron, Clegg or Miliband say anything it's hard to know where the lies begin (that's assuming there's any truth there in the first place).

    And as I said before, this is coming from somebody who wouldn't even vote for UKIP.. which to me says we have a serious political problem in this country.

    I'd love there to be a liberal or left-wing Farage! A politician with a bit of bloody backbone and conviction that's pro-EU and has some compassion, who isn't trying to justify his/her existence all the time but actually says "things should be like XYZ". A politician with an actual dream rather than one just trying to win elections for power/money.


    Sincerity is subjective. Personally I find Farage slimey the same as all the other lot many times. Also, it's great and easy to be the guy everyone likes, the normal sincere down to earth "real man", when you are a party that has absolutely no chance in the significant future (never say never in 50 years or whatever) of actually being in power and having to test it out.

    That's what im saying. If Farage was in power he would soon show his nasty side like the rest of them.
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
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    Sincerity is subjective. Personally I find Farage slimey the same as all the other lot many times. Also, it's great and easy to be the guy everyone likes, the normal sincere down to earth "real man", when you are a party that has absolutely no chance in the significant future (never say never in 50 years or whatever) of actually being in power and having to test it out.

    That's what im saying. If Farage was in power he would soon show his nasty side like the rest of them.

    I dunno you know, Farage can do no wrong in that sense.

    Even if he won by landslide victory he would plonk himself down in a pub and enjoy a pint and a cigarette. He wouldn't give a rats what anyone said. It would probably feed into his delusions if he won and he'd have positive re-enforcement that he was 'right'.

    People would love him for it.

    Farage may be slimey in a 'creepy old man' way, but as a politician he has conviction that I think is pretty unshakable.

    If Cameron or Milliband went into a pub, the whole time it'd be a carefully stage-managed appearance, the pint wouldn't be drunk (photo op' prop only) and the moment they were out of there they'd be OBSESSED with what everyone was thinking and saying about it in true 'The Thick of it' style. They probably wouldn't stop talking about headlines for 2 days.

    Speaking for all voters, I don't think we want to see such.... fiction.
  • guypdguypd Posts: 2,643
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  • LyricalisLyricalis Posts: 57,958
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    I think we'll look back in a few years and wonder why the media spent so much time hyping up a party that ended up winning next to nothing in the 2015 GE. I certainly don't see why these windbags get so much more publicity than the Greens do, especially as they actually have some policies that are different from the other parties.
  • HypnodiscHypnodisc Posts: 22,728
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    Lyricalis wrote: »
    I think we'll look back in a few years and wonder why the media spent so much time hyping up a party that ended up winning next to nothing in the 2015 GE. I certainly don't see why these windbags get so much more publicity than the Greens do, especially as they actually have some policies that are different from the other parties.

    Whilst I disagree with your first point (UKIP's recent popularity is at the very least a significant sociological development in British politics) I agree re the Greens.

    I think the problem is that presentation counts when it comes to politics.

    The Greens have done nothing to inspire me to vote for them, despite the fact I'm nominally a GP supporter. They made too much of an issue about The Sun's Page 3 (many things wrong with The Sun; Page 3 isn't one of them), the fact they decry ALL nuclear power and do not adequately oppose censorship enough for my liking.

    What we need is somebody on the left of politics who has a little charisma as well as conviction and sincerity.
  • JeffersonJefferson Posts: 3,736
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    It was disgraceful how Ch4 News and the BBC (Newsnight) tried to derail and discredit the Ukip conference yesterday.

    We really should expect more from them than that.
  • DadDancerDadDancer Posts: 3,920
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    Lyricalis wrote: »
    I think we'll look back in a few years and wonder why the media spent so much time hyping up a party that ended up winning next to nothing in the 2015 GE. I certainly don't see why these windbags get so much more publicity than the Greens do, especially as they actually have some policies that are different from the other parties.

    but they have been getting 25%+ at recent by-elections. If it wasn't for UKIP then the EU would be a done deal, and the Tories and Labour wouldn't even be discussing things like in out referendums. They may not get many seats but they are hugely influential and for this they deserve the publicity they are given.

    The Green party are authoritarians who support the nanny state and want to ban all manner of things. It appears that Natalie Bennett wants to shut down all debate on climate change too:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26379503

    Maybe we should call them the BNP in sandals :p Seriously though if she takes that stance then I don't see why they should be given much airspace at all.
  • crystalladcrystallad Posts: 3,744
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    oathy wrote: »
    IMHO One of his worst speeches
    huge mistake on the story on the train and not hearing any English it was perfectly
    feasible a group from Abroad was there. no doubt various papers will try and prove that. Would have been much more effective sticking on the extra pressures local services are suffering and considering the present the ONS gave him on the Migration numbers whilst used he made nothing. If anything his attacks were more focused on Labour and the Libdems it almost felt like his stance with the Tories was getting softer.

    Normally his speeches have a lot of charisma there was nothing like that today
    his Q&A with the press later also seemed very uneasy getting into Quite a mess over the Question on Gay Marriage and would they repeal the laws etc.

    The train story is true though for many british.
    I went to a petrol station while the attendant spoke indian (guess)

    I deal with the public and while negotiating with people they speak in their mother tongue, I find it rude and like whispering.

    Who voted for this multi culture society?

    What benefit does not integrating bring because its happening and only ukip are standing up for true Britain.

    Tourism I get but not this segregation society that the left seem to love!
  • Andrew1954Andrew1954 Posts: 5,448
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    He came over as a complete prat. ....
  • niceguy1966niceguy1966 Posts: 29,560
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    crystallad wrote: »
    The train story is true though for many british.
    I went to a petrol station while the attendant spoke indian (guess)

    I deal with the public and while negotiating with people they speak in their mother tongue, I find it rude and like whispering.

    Who voted for this multi culture society?

    What benefit does not integrating bring because its happening and only ukip are standing up for true Britain.

    Tourism I get but not this segregation society that the left seem to love!

    1) What makes you believe the left love segregated communities?
    2) Who are the 'left'?
    3) If your family moved to Spain, how long before you chat with your partner in Spanish?

    Honestly, I think your post is badly thought through with more reliance on gut feel than facts.
  • AdsAds Posts: 37,037
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    I am concerned about the negative affects of mass migration in terms of causing spiraling housing prices, keeping wages down and the pressure it puts on schools and hospitals.

    However Farage's speech about not hearing any English on the train failed to tackle any of the real socio-economic issues, and was just a dog whistle for racists.
  • I, CandyI, Candy Posts: 3,710
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    The one thing Farage has going for him in spades is charisma. People from a wide range of walks of life - the average joe down the pub, the call-centre worker, the shire county antique dealer, the city gent - relate to him. He's the kind of bloke a lot of people would like to go and have a pint with; they know they'd have a bloody good laugh.

    Boris Johnson is similar, although not the same extent as Farage.

    Whatever you think of Farage's views - I don't agree with UKIP's policies at all - there's no doubt he has an immense popular appeal as an individual. You simply cannot say that about Cameron, Clegg or Miliband.
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,551
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    crystallad wrote: »
    The train story is true though for many british.
    I went to a petrol station while the attendant spoke indian (guess)
    Not sure what you mean by that exactly, but there is no such language as "Indian". Hindi, Gujerati, Urdu perhaps?
  • toastietoastie Posts: 2,508
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    I didn't think his speech was that bad really. However his comment about hearing 'foreign voices' on the train was a stupid thing to say even by his standards.
    It really showed UKIP up for the xenophobic bigots they are.
  • BrokenArrowBrokenArrow Posts: 21,665
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    Lyricalis wrote: »
    I think we'll look back in a few years and wonder why the media spent so much time hyping up a party that ended up winning next to nothing in the 2015 GE. I certainly don't see why these windbags get so much more publicity than the Greens do, especially as they actually have some policies that are different from the other parties.

    The Greens are just Labour with recycling.
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,551
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    DadDancer wrote: »
    The Green party are authoritarians who support the nanny state and want to ban all manner of things. It appears that Natalie Bennett wants to shut down all debate on climate change too

    Though she didn't actually say that.
  • jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,551
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    The Greens are just Labour with recycling.

    Nonsense. They are far more radical than Labour.
  • flagpoleflagpole Posts: 44,641
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    i thought the mistake he made was banging on about their core message. we all know that. what they need to do is increase the credibility in other areas.
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