I watched that earlier. At about six minutes in, after saying he knows the abuse wasn't his fault, he describes a boy of ten being led, too drunk to stand, to a bedroom by a man in his 50s/60s. He then says: 'Come on, come on' - as if the boy being blind drunk is the qualifier on the fact abuse took place.
These boys were so messed up... made to feel they were guilty of something because they accepted gifts and days out from their abusers. At one point he said: 'I wouldn't have given up my place on the bus (to the parties) - would you?'
Such a harrowing story, he reported it to the police so hopefully they'll be looking into it now
I suspect it may well be about time this country lost its last remaining PSB.
Fine, upstanding media outlets such as News International, Mirror Group and ITV are the future, for sure.
It is no less than our great nation deserves.
Well it is no better Fact is you don't have to lose the good stuff the BBC does but it can't continue to operate as it does now. Personally I'd separate out News & Current Affairs into a totally separate function reporting to the top job. There needs to be much simplified reporting lines so that it is clear where accountability sits & decisions etc. can be referred up to where they need to be quite quickly.
Now David Cameron is wrong for ordering an inquiry. You couldn't make it up.
The latest revelations raise questions about Mr Cameron’s decision to reinvestigate the North Wales child abuse scandal — although it does seem paedophile activities there were wider than previously thought.
Well it is no better Fact is you don't have to lose the good stuff the BBC does but it can't continue to operate as it does now. Personally I'd separate out News & Current Affairs into a totally separate function reporting to the top job. There needs to be much simplified reporting lines so that it is clear where accountability sits & decisions etc. can be referred up to where they need to be quite quickly.
Indeed -- they win.
Destruction of the BBC by stealth, and without a PSB to go up against, the whole industry resembles Australian TV.
As I say, no more than this festering collection of tabloid-addicted morons deserves.
Good luck with that -- pleased I have no offspring to be concerned about -- although they'd all be gang-raped by BBC celebrities in dressing rooms, and lied to by their journalists in any case so losing the BBC is no loss.
Destruction of the BBC by stealth, and without a PSB to go up against, the whole industry resembles Australian TV.
As I say, no more than this festering collection of tabloid-addicted morons deserves.
Good luck with that -- pleased I have no offspring to be concerned about -- although they'd all be screwed by BBC celebrities, and lied to by their journalists in any case so losing the BBC is no loss.
Whose they? BBC is self-destructing all by itself.
Whose they? BBC is self-destructing all by itself.
My non-existent offspring -- betrayed by the great Satan the BBC, who aren't being helped along by their friends Uncle Rupert and those staunch PSB defenders the Tory Party at all.
Nope, their death on the rocks is entirely of their own making.
Very similar to the Duncroft girls in fact. Lots of gifts and bribes and days out to London on offer and as a consequence, the girls being coerced into thinking they had willingly gone along with it, rather than the reality of them being groomed and heavily manipulated.
Yes, the style of abuse was exactly the same - and so calculated, effective and widespread that it appears to have been organised by a person who understood child psychology very well and who was well-connected - and Righton was the Chairman of PIE.
JS, Allen, and the 'posh' abusers all appear to have bribed their victims. And the man on Sky said children were shipped to London from all over the UK - that's organised with a capital 'O'.
JS has allegedly been linked to Wales (& Jersey), so he does seem to be a very central figure in all this - connected to everyone (government officials, other BBC abusers - whoever they may be) and everywhere. I wonder if the allegations regarding him in Wales are well-founded? If so they rather implicate him as a central 'dot'.
I know that's all utter speculation, but it's hard to think any other way all things considered.
Newsnight – review
Eddie Mair takes self-flagellation to new heights with masterclass in humility
Ben Quinn
guardian.co.uk, Saturday 10 November 2012 02.06 GMT
The fact that he was posing the question to a Tory MP, Rob Wilson, of the Commons culture, media and sport select committee, and that it was left to Wilson to caution against "kneejerk reactions" only made what was unfolding all the more unusual.
The MP did not rule it out, though.
Mair's question was a pre-emptive strike. He knows the witch-hunt, which will lead inexorably to the end of the UK's last PSB has begun, and so does the Tory Murdoch stooge.
Yes, the style of abuse was exactly the same - and so calculated, effective and widespread that it appears to have been organised by a person who understood child psychology very well and who was well-connected - and Righton was the Chairman of PIE.
JS, Allen, and the 'posh' abusers all appear to have bribed their victims. And the man on Sky said children were shipped to London from all over the UK - that's organised with a capital 'O'.
JS has allegedly been linked to Wales (& Jersey), so he does seem to be a very central figure in all this - connected to everyone (government officials, other BBC abusers - whoever they may be) and everywhere. I wonder if the allegations regarding him in Wales are well-founded? If so they rather implicate him as a central 'dot'.
I know that's all utter speculation, but it's hard to think any other way all things considered.
Saville does not appear to have tried to hide his abuse from people he considered to be fellow perverts, so he was probably very open to the idea of paedophile rings.
"If you are consumed with greed, enjoy a permanent sense of superiority, are incompetent, suffer from Acute Controlling Syndrome, think ethics are for wimps, or have never created anything worthwhile in your life, the chances are you hold some kind of senior position in one of these professions: politics, the media, investment banking, multinational business, management consultancy, tax accountancy, the Law, or internet service provision.
You are the reason all those pursuits serve your interests rather than mine.
If you have all of those features in your personal make-up, then you are a seriously big wig, engaged in running the world. You are probably a sociopath, perhaps a psychopath, and definitely delusional…to the extent that your ideal world is one in which the small community and the middle classes have been wiped out, and a few very big bananas have near-monopolies on everything.
Personally, I think it's totally pointless to now start speculating about the other McAlpines. Some of the boys believed that one of the abusers was called McAlpine. It is possible that they came up with the name because McAlpines were a wealthy local family.
It is also possible that the policeman showed Steven a photo of Lord McAlpine (not one of the other McAlpines) after the name was mentioned by the boys, and for whatever reason, Steven identified him wrongly as his abuser. The man with the flashy cars could have been anybody, someone who looked like LM. Who knows what quality those photos were?
Given what Rod Richards and Edwina Currie have said, perhaps someone should show Steven Messham a photo of Peter Morrison, but then again, I wouldn't wish him to be exposed to any more media frenzy.
The boys were taken on work parties to the McAlpine homes to do gardening etc. So they must have known the name. Also Keith Gregory mentioned a guy with a flash car (ETA: who visited the homes) who the boys thought was named McAlpine.
"Officers in forces are trying to deal with these massive numbers of cases. If you take away your best people to investigate a historical case, what you have left back in the force are the live cases where a child is being abused tonight. This is the dilemma that these officers face."
North Wales child abuse inquiry pulls in police specialists from across UK
Concern as head of new National Crime Agency diverts resources from live investigations to inquiry into historical abuse
If they follow the historic stuff they'll bump into live stuff imo (plus if the historic stuff had been followed up fully at the time a lot of live stuff wouldn't have happened)
Q: What do you think are the key questions that need answering?
SH: Well the key questions that have been brewing here, really not somuch that Newsnight didn't proceed with the programme last December, or indeed because of what happened 4 years ago, because of the way the BBC have handled things in the last 4 or 5 weeks the BBC has ended up looking leaderless, not on top of it, not exactly in control. When George Entwistle appeared before MPs they were desperate to feel that someone had got a grip, well the problem is that that's the big story about the BBC, if you like the big narrative, is who's in charge, has anyone in charge got a grip, it feels as if they haven't. Now that's the context for a Newsnight programme which went out containing that very serious allegation, effectively about the [he pauses] Conservative minister, ex-minister and the problem with that is, it looks for all the world that it's on the rebound. Having been flayed alive for not broadcasting something that was probably true, they're now being flayed alive for broadcasting something that is certainly not true.
Rather than applying the BBC's normal standards of journalism, something was allowed to air, something big and controversial was allowed to air, which had it been checked, even rudimentarily, would have been found to be wrong, we know for example that the BBC itself, various people at the BBC had looked at this man's story and on a couple of occasions had found it wanting, and if you go back to the Waterhouse Report you will find references to this man's story about McAlpine, although the name's not used, but if you know what you're doing you can find them, but this man's story was bordering on fantasy. That's not to say that - Mr Meesham is plainly a victim of serial abuse - and deserves nothing but our sympathy I have to say, but nevertheless his story about McAlpine - he's been saying it for a long time and it's always been untrue, and the problem for Newsnight and the BBC is it looks like, to redress the balance, given the embarrassment over Savile and the Newsnight programme, something's been allowed on air which just didn't stand up.
This is similar to Islington. The staff at the homes effectively train the kids like puppies with a mixture of threats, violence and treats. Most of it stays inside the homes but the most compliant - the ones most desperate for adult attention - are pimped out.
Q: And Steve, for those not involved in the media watching this, one of the things they're often frustrated about and confused by is the length of time to find out who did what and when. From the Savile Inquiry, the BBC's report into that, we await that report so now, the DG has another of those situations sitting right in front of him, and do we have to wait, if you like, for another report cos the BBC's now investigating itself again?
Several of us posted last night that we can't believe Newsnight didn't think of showing Messham a photo or photos in order to ID his abuser before taking their report to air, Sky News is asking that question itself this morning.
It strikes me as such an elementary thing to do, and a fundamental failure not to do so, it just beggars belief.
What a total mess, and the Newsnight team have only themselves to blame.
The sad thing about the guy on Sky is he looks like he feels complicit in what happened to him so he's trying to justify his child behaviour to himself in terms of being shown the sights of London and getting drinks etc but what actually happens is children are wired up to latch onto an adult care-giver the same way ducklings who lose their mother can latch onto a pig or a sheep and the groomers manipulate that instinctive programming.
Several of us posted last night that we can't believe Newsnight didn't think of showing Messham a photo or photos in order to ID his abuser before taking their report to air, Sky News is asking that question itself this morning.
It strikes me as such an elementary thing to do, and a fundamental failure not to do so, it just beggars belief.
What a total mess, and the Newsnight team have only themselves to blame.
Do you think so? I don't - it'll get a lot more messy than this before it's all over. There are people out there who play dirty - how do you think Savile kept the lid on things for so long? I think we're in for a bumpy ride - this is just the start.
Hello thread. Long time lurker, first time poster.
I would just like to share with you a story told to me by my mother many years ago. It's not very exciting but sort of relevant.
My mum (now 80, with a broken knee and a chest infection) worked as Night Superintendant in Scarboro hospital between 1962 and 1967, this was before I was born. We used to go to Scarboro on holiday. When I was about 10 and watching Jim'll fix it on telly she said something like: "oh Jimmy Savile, he used to take the kids out for runs in his car from the hospital in Scarboro".
I asked her recently about this and she told me the same thing. She never met him (with being nightshift) but would get the handover from the day matron. The day matron seemed a bit starstruck "imagine, someone as famous as JS giving up his time to take the kiddies out". My mum thought it a bit odd but she says mainly because he wouldn't know what to do if one of the kids became ill. In light of the recent allegations she can't help but wonder if it was only car rides or something more sinister...
Thanks for reading.
Comments
Such a harrowing story, he reported it to the police so hopefully they'll be looking into it now
Well it is no better
Now David Cameron is wrong for ordering an inquiry. You couldn't make it up.
The latest revelations raise questions about Mr Cameron’s decision to reinvestigate the North Wales child abuse scandal — although it does seem paedophile activities there were wider than previously thought.
Indeed -- they win.
Destruction of the BBC by stealth, and without a PSB to go up against, the whole industry resembles Australian TV.
As I say, no more than this festering collection of tabloid-addicted morons deserves.
Good luck with that -- pleased I have no offspring to be concerned about -- although they'd all be gang-raped by BBC celebrities in dressing rooms, and lied to by their journalists in any case so losing the BBC is no loss.
Whose they? BBC is self-destructing all by itself.
My non-existent offspring -- betrayed by the great Satan the BBC, who aren't being helped along by their friends Uncle Rupert and those staunch PSB defenders the Tory Party at all.
Nope, their death on the rocks is entirely of their own making.
Yes, the style of abuse was exactly the same - and so calculated, effective and widespread that it appears to have been organised by a person who understood child psychology very well and who was well-connected - and Righton was the Chairman of PIE.
JS, Allen, and the 'posh' abusers all appear to have bribed their victims. And the man on Sky said children were shipped to London from all over the UK - that's organised with a capital 'O'.
JS has allegedly been linked to Wales (& Jersey), so he does seem to be a very central figure in all this - connected to everyone (government officials, other BBC abusers - whoever they may be) and everywhere. I wonder if the allegations regarding him in Wales are well-founded? If so they rather implicate him as a central 'dot'.
I know that's all utter speculation, but it's hard to think any other way all things considered.
Eddie Mair takes self-flagellation to new heights with masterclass in humility
Ben Quinn
guardian.co.uk, Saturday 10 November 2012 02.06 GMT
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/nov/10/newsnight-review
It's good, although Eddie Mair wasn't a "stand-in" - he quite often does Fridays.
The classic episode is here if you missed it
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nwxt4/Newsnight_09_11_2012/
The MP did not rule it out, though.
Mair's question was a pre-emptive strike. He knows the witch-hunt, which will lead inexorably to the end of the UK's last PSB has begun, and so does the Tory Murdoch stooge.
How come?
Saville does not appear to have tried to hide his abuse from people he considered to be fellow perverts, so he was probably very open to the idea of paedophile rings.
http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/11/09/the-mcalpine-cockup-keeping-a-sense-of-perspective/
http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/11/09/opinion-we-should-be-applauding-schofield-not-gagging-him/
From his about page:
"If you are consumed with greed, enjoy a permanent sense of superiority, are incompetent, suffer from Acute Controlling Syndrome, think ethics are for wimps, or have never created anything worthwhile in your life, the chances are you hold some kind of senior position in one of these professions: politics, the media, investment banking, multinational business, management consultancy, tax accountancy, the Law, or internet service provision.
You are the reason all those pursuits serve your interests rather than mine.
If you have all of those features in your personal make-up, then you are a seriously big wig, engaged in running the world. You are probably a sociopath, perhaps a psychopath, and definitely delusional…to the extent that your ideal world is one in which the small community and the middle classes have been wiped out, and a few very big bananas have near-monopolies on everything.
You are the reason the world is falling apart."
The boys were taken on work parties to the McAlpine homes to do gardening etc. So they must have known the name. Also Keith Gregory mentioned a guy with a flash car (ETA: who visited the homes) who the boys thought was named McAlpine.
It's a very obvious loose thread.
7.10am Steve Hewlett, (media commentator, who was on Newsnight last night too, and is very possibly the only person benefiting from all this)
9.10am DG George Entwistle (I can't get used to the idea that there's no "h" in his surname)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20278228#
Sky News 7am headlines leading with it.
If they follow the historic stuff they'll bump into live stuff imo (plus if the historic stuff had been followed up fully at the time a lot of live stuff wouldn't have happened)
Steve Hewlett
Q: What do you think are the key questions that need answering?
SH: Well the key questions that have been brewing here, really not somuch that Newsnight didn't proceed with the programme last December, or indeed because of what happened 4 years ago, because of the way the BBC have handled things in the last 4 or 5 weeks the BBC has ended up looking leaderless, not on top of it, not exactly in control. When George Entwistle appeared before MPs they were desperate to feel that someone had got a grip, well the problem is that that's the big story about the BBC, if you like the big narrative, is who's in charge, has anyone in charge got a grip, it feels as if they haven't. Now that's the context for a Newsnight programme which went out containing that very serious allegation, effectively about the [he pauses] Conservative minister, ex-minister and the problem with that is, it looks for all the world that it's on the rebound. Having been flayed alive for not broadcasting something that was probably true, they're now being flayed alive for broadcasting something that is certainly not true.
Rather than applying the BBC's normal standards of journalism, something was allowed to air, something big and controversial was allowed to air, which had it been checked, even rudimentarily, would have been found to be wrong, we know for example that the BBC itself, various people at the BBC had looked at this man's story and on a couple of occasions had found it wanting, and if you go back to the Waterhouse Report you will find references to this man's story about McAlpine, although the name's not used, but if you know what you're doing you can find them, but this man's story was bordering on fantasy. That's not to say that - Mr Meesham is plainly a victim of serial abuse - and deserves nothing but our sympathy I have to say, but nevertheless his story about McAlpine - he's been saying it for a long time and it's always been untrue, and the problem for Newsnight and the BBC is it looks like, to redress the balance, given the embarrassment over Savile and the Newsnight programme, something's been allowed on air which just didn't stand up.
This is similar to Islington. The staff at the homes effectively train the kids like puppies with a mixture of threats, violence and treats. Most of it stays inside the homes but the most compliant - the ones most desperate for adult attention - are pimped out.
Q: And Steve, for those not involved in the media watching this, one of the things they're often frustrated about and confused by is the length of time to find out who did what and when. From the Savile Inquiry, the BBC's report into that, we await that report so now, the DG has another of those situations sitting right in front of him, and do we have to wait, if you like, for another report cos the BBC's now investigating itself again?
It strikes me as such an elementary thing to do, and a fundamental failure not to do so, it just beggars belief.
What a total mess, and the Newsnight team have only themselves to blame.
Do you think so? I don't - it'll get a lot more messy than this before it's all over. There are people out there who play dirty - how do you think Savile kept the lid on things for so long? I think we're in for a bumpy ride - this is just the start.
Pass me the tin foil.
I would just like to share with you a story told to me by my mother many years ago. It's not very exciting but sort of relevant.
My mum (now 80, with a broken knee and a chest infection) worked as Night Superintendant in Scarboro hospital between 1962 and 1967, this was before I was born. We used to go to Scarboro on holiday. When I was about 10 and watching Jim'll fix it on telly she said something like: "oh Jimmy Savile, he used to take the kids out for runs in his car from the hospital in Scarboro".
I asked her recently about this and she told me the same thing. She never met him (with being nightshift) but would get the handover from the day matron. The day matron seemed a bit starstruck "imagine, someone as famous as JS giving up his time to take the kiddies out". My mum thought it a bit odd but she says mainly because he wouldn't know what to do if one of the kids became ill. In light of the recent allegations she can't help but wonder if it was only car rides or something more sinister...
Thanks for reading.