It just wasn't very good. I think, given another season or two (or, more importantly, if shown a little bit of faith/money by the beeb) Cartmel could well have made some truly great Doctor Who. But seasons 24-26 weren't it.
But, still, they had good intentions.
Yes, "good intentions" is a phrase that comes frequently to my mind as well when I think of the McCoy era - I appreciate what they were trying to do. Still, I'm of the opinion that if the BBC management had had any faith in the series they would have let John Nathan-Turner go around 1983, and ensured that Doctor Who continued with an experienced, successful producer and an equally experienced and successful script editing and writing team. But Jonathan Powell himself admitted:
“It was terrible. “Doctor Who” was a long way down the list of priorities, frankly…it was an embarrassment. It had become a laughing stock. Nobody wanted it to succeed—we wanted it to die.”
And of John Nathan-Turner:
"I wanted him to f- off and solve it – or die, really. But it had probably gone beyond solving. The only way of resuscitating it would have been to put a new producer on it – but we didn't want to resuscitate it."
So it stands to reason they let a washed-up producer hire as script editor a man who had never even written a TV script that got commissioned, who in turn commissioned stories written by various novices he'd met on scriptwriting courses, and that the result was... as you say, just not very good.
It just became a bit of a pantomime in the Baker/McCoy era. I also thought it became a little camp too. Baker & McCoy were not good choices to play the role but to be fair to them they gave it their best shot. As most people have alluded to already on here the main problem was the writing and the production. I was actually glad when it was cancelled. It was like putting your beloved sick dog to "sleep" because you couldn't stand it suffering any more.
Baker & McCoy were not good choices to play the role ...
Don't accept that regarding Baker, he had all the qualities for a truly awesome Doctor but was simply not given the freedom his predecessors had to make the role his own. He owned his scenes and his stature, range and command was superior to even Davison in some respects.
McCoy was a poor choice, not because of his acting ability but simply because imo he had no presence, his costume was bland and his vocal range was limited. He just didn't stand out, he had no quirk!
I think McCoy was an excellent Doctor, he just didn't have the scripts he truly deserved.(Like an extremely recent New Series Doctor.;-))
There's no doubt Season 24 was the worst in the show's history, and a lot of this was as a result of poor preparation after Colin Baker's sacking. How much better it would have been with proper preparation is up for debate. I'm not sure McCoy's darker Doctor would have worked in this Season.
I've read people say they don't see the improvement in the McCoy years. I'm open to correction, but maybe the sort of improvement people think of are if the show returned to the standards of earlier era's.
The improvement I always see is in terms of the Era itself. Yes, Season 25 and 26 aren't nowhere as good as previous Seasons with other Doctors, but year on year it did improve and Season 26 is so superior to Season 24 it's unreal. Compared to the early Tom Baker years there is no comparison but you have to see it in context(yes, that word yet again!) of the era, it really is an improvement.
I never did get ghost light. Delta, survival,silver nemesis and dragonfire.had their moments but overall poor. The hale and pace appearance in survival was very much a gimic, similar to peter kay in love and monsters.
What about Ken Dodd in Delta and the Bannermen?
In writing that, I've got his 60s hit Happiness going through my head!...Crap isn't it?
I think McCoy was an excellent Doctor, he just didn't have the scripts he truly deserved.(Like an extremely recent New Series Doctor.;-))
There's no doubt Season 24 was the worst in the show's history, and a lot of this was as a result of poor preparation after Colin Baker's sacking. How much better it would have been with proper preparation is up for debate. I'm not sure McCoy's darker Doctor would have worked in this Season.
I've read people say they don't see the improvement in the McCoy years. I'm open to correction, but maybe the sort of improvement people think of are if the show returned to the standards of earlier era's.
The improvement I always see is in terms of the Era itself. Yes, Season 25 and 26 aren't nowhere as good as previous Seasons with other Doctors, but year on year it did improve and Season 26 is so superior to Season 24 it's unreal. Compared to the early Tom Baker years there is no comparison but you have to see it in context(yes, that word yet again!) of the era, it really is an improvement.
Commenting on this again just so I can agree with Daveyboy on something. Not that McCoy was an excellent Doctor, I don't I think he was awful, but it's wrong to suggest that Season 25 and 26 are no better than Season 24. Nothing can be that bad.
There are only 2 McCoy stories that I think are good, Remembrance and Fenric with Battlefield a guilty pleasure. None of these in Season 24.
Time and the Rani, Paradise Towers and Dragonfire, along with The Twin Dilemma and The Happiness Patrol rank as my least favourite stories in Doctor Who history.
I can watch Delta and the Bannermen because I like the setting and because Delta's quite attractive but that's about it.
Just gets better as it goes along for me. Starting with the horribly written and produced Time and the Rani, Paradise Towers is a lost opportunity and is drab and flawed. Delta is a decent little three parter, some cringe worthy dialogue my only gripe. Dragonfire was okay to watch as a nine year old as I was, but I think it's poor now.
Season 25 is a bit more consistent. Season 26 is a good season, more character development with Ace, and I like them as a duo. I like all the stories too. The Curse of Fenric is my favourite in this season. But I'd happily watch all the rest. Battlefield I really like, but on reflection did we really need the Destroyer?
McCoy is a likable Doctor by this season for me also.
Don't accept that regarding Baker, he had all the qualities for a truly awesome Doctor but was simply not given the freedom his predecessors had to make the role his own. He owned his scenes and his stature, range and command was superior to even Davison in some respects.
Yes, I agree with you 100%. In fact, the sixth Doctor years are among my favourites.
I think Colin's costume was a major barrier to him being taken seriously as the Doctor and - beyond that - the writing had become very insular. It felt as though it was being written to please fans first and foremost, and was less accessible to a broader audience. The continuity-laiden 'Attack of the Cybermen' is a great example of this.
And too many of Colin's stories were resolved in a way that made the Doctor's presence incidental. Look at 'Revelation of the Daleks' - the outcome would have been exactly the same if the Doctor and Peri had never been there.
But Colin's performance itself is superb throughout. A great interpretation of the role and one that deserved a much longer tenure. Thank goodness for Big Finish!
McCoy was a poor choice, not because of his acting ability but simply because imo he had no presence, his costume was bland and his vocal range was limited. He just didn't stand out, he had no quirk!
I would disagree a little here - I do personally think McCoy lacked acting ability and this is why he had no presence. For me, I always felt he was someone doing an impression of the Doctor for a sketch show rather than actually being the Doctor.
Well, the Doctor is allowed to deny an incarnation diegetically. Fans pretending that entire episodes, series and incarnations don't exist are a bit odd, however.:-D
I would disagree a little here - I do personally think McCoy lacked acting ability and this is why he had no presence. For me, I always felt he was someone doing an impression of the Doctor for a sketch show rather than actually being the Doctor.
well, i was trying to ne more diplomatic but yes i completely agree. Your 'impression' analogy is spot on;
But Colin's performance itself is superb throughout. A great interpretation of the role and one that deserved a much longer tenure.
Colin Baker could have saved Doctor Who by himself if he'd only been allowed to.
I would disagree a little here - I do personally think McCoy lacked acting ability and this is why he had no presence. For me, I always felt he was someone doing an impression of the Doctor for a sketch show rather than actually being the Doctor.
I suspect that this is pretty much how Grade and Powell were hoping people would respond.
Comments
Yes, "good intentions" is a phrase that comes frequently to my mind as well when I think of the McCoy era - I appreciate what they were trying to do. Still, I'm of the opinion that if the BBC management had had any faith in the series they would have let John Nathan-Turner go around 1983, and ensured that Doctor Who continued with an experienced, successful producer and an equally experienced and successful script editing and writing team. But Jonathan Powell himself admitted:
“It was terrible. “Doctor Who” was a long way down the list of priorities, frankly…it was an embarrassment. It had become a laughing stock. Nobody wanted it to succeed—we wanted it to die.”
And of John Nathan-Turner:
"I wanted him to f- off and solve it – or die, really. But it had probably gone beyond solving. The only way of resuscitating it would have been to put a new producer on it – but we didn't want to resuscitate it."
So it stands to reason they let a washed-up producer hire as script editor a man who had never even written a TV script that got commissioned, who in turn commissioned stories written by various novices he'd met on scriptwriting courses, and that the result was... as you say, just not very good.
Don't accept that regarding Baker, he had all the qualities for a truly awesome Doctor but was simply not given the freedom his predecessors had to make the role his own. He owned his scenes and his stature, range and command was superior to even Davison in some respects.
McCoy was a poor choice, not because of his acting ability but simply because imo he had no presence, his costume was bland and his vocal range was limited. He just didn't stand out, he had no quirk!
There's no doubt Season 24 was the worst in the show's history, and a lot of this was as a result of poor preparation after Colin Baker's sacking. How much better it would have been with proper preparation is up for debate. I'm not sure McCoy's darker Doctor would have worked in this Season.
I've read people say they don't see the improvement in the McCoy years. I'm open to correction, but maybe the sort of improvement people think of are if the show returned to the standards of earlier era's.
The improvement I always see is in terms of the Era itself. Yes, Season 25 and 26 aren't nowhere as good as previous Seasons with other Doctors, but year on year it did improve and Season 26 is so superior to Season 24 it's unreal. Compared to the early Tom Baker years there is no comparison but you have to see it in context(yes, that word yet again!) of the era, it really is an improvement.
What about Ken Dodd in Delta and the Bannermen?
In writing that, I've got his 60s hit Happiness going through my head!...Crap isn't it?
Commenting on this again just so I can agree with Daveyboy on something. Not that McCoy was an excellent Doctor, I don't I think he was awful, but it's wrong to suggest that Season 25 and 26 are no better than Season 24. Nothing can be that bad.
There are only 2 McCoy stories that I think are good, Remembrance and Fenric with Battlefield a guilty pleasure. None of these in Season 24.
Time and the Rani, Paradise Towers and Dragonfire, along with The Twin Dilemma and The Happiness Patrol rank as my least favourite stories in Doctor Who history.
I can watch Delta and the Bannermen because I like the setting and because Delta's quite attractive but that's about it.
Season 25 is a bit more consistent. Season 26 is a good season, more character development with Ace, and I like them as a duo. I like all the stories too. The Curse of Fenric is my favourite in this season. But I'd happily watch all the rest. Battlefield I really like, but on reflection did we really need the Destroyer?
McCoy is a likable Doctor by this season for me also.
Yes, I agree with you 100%. In fact, the sixth Doctor years are among my favourites.
I think Colin's costume was a major barrier to him being taken seriously as the Doctor and - beyond that - the writing had become very insular. It felt as though it was being written to please fans first and foremost, and was less accessible to a broader audience. The continuity-laiden 'Attack of the Cybermen' is a great example of this.
And too many of Colin's stories were resolved in a way that made the Doctor's presence incidental. Look at 'Revelation of the Daleks' - the outcome would have been exactly the same if the Doctor and Peri had never been there.
But Colin's performance itself is superb throughout. A great interpretation of the role and one that deserved a much longer tenure. Thank goodness for Big Finish!
I would disagree a little here - I do personally think McCoy lacked acting ability and this is why he had no presence. For me, I always felt he was someone doing an impression of the Doctor for a sketch show rather than actually being the Doctor.
well, i was trying to ne more diplomatic but yes i completely agree. Your 'impression' analogy is spot on;
Colin Baker could have saved Doctor Who by himself if he'd only been allowed to.
I suspect that this is pretty much how Grade and Powell were hoping people would respond.