It's interesting that this debate is almost exclusively based on economics.
On the one hand, immigration is blamed for groaning infrastructure, higher house prices, and driving down wages. On the other hand, it's lauded for keeping the economy dynamic.
Culturally there is only praise - no-one ever points out that on a cultural level there are a lot of negative points just as there are positive and negative points economically, and arguably the cultural points mass immigration is lauded for are nonsense when you examine them - usually the best things people can come up with are better food (which is just trivial) and Isn't It Wonderful That We're a More Tolerant Society™, which is also nonsense because Britain has historically been one of the most tolerant societies in the world, if not the most tolerant (and consistently more tolerant than the cultures we have invited in to educate ourselves about tolerance), so we didn't really need any lessons on that score in the first place.
But that is the very mindset I'm talking about - the knowledge that the state will provide and the more that social costs rise, so does taxation, it's a never-ending spiral nightmare for everyone.
I would imagine most of us (and I do include myself) have done jobs that were below our skillset but we did those jobs because we needed the money and no lengthy break in employment record - I don't understand why people would prefer to not work when they can. If there are no skilled jobs in the UK - how do migrants manage to get them?
Because they undercut the British skilled workforce. Why pay £500 for a job that needs doing when a Pole can do it for £200 or a Romanian can do for £100.
Which was basically the plan all along by Parliament, to drive wages down.
Oh they did, I would still say Irish people faced the most hostility at any one point in this country. Remember "no dogs, blacks or Irish" signs?
I would still say there's some anti-irish resentment too, e.g. travellers in essex.
I don't think you can classify resentment towards travellers in Essex (or anywhere else for that matter) as being anti-Irish. People understand the difference between them and Irish people in general - in fact the Irish themselves are not particularly keen on that particular group of people either, from what I hear.
Same. There is also a points requirement in the UK as in Australia and Canada.
A lot of good a points based system is when you have open borders to the 8 poorest countries in europe, when people coming here have higher rates of unemployment compared to people already here, when women coming from some non european countries have an unemployment rate of around 75% and that about 50% of the people coming here work in low skilled and low paid jobs whilst everyone is running around talking about unemployment and housing problems.
Which was basically the plan all along by Parliament, to drive wages down.
All thanks to Nu Labour, the party who shit well and truly over the very people they claimed to stand up for :mad:
Tony Blair is the Thatcher of the 21st Century, a man so obsessed with being right. Blair will be remembered for his illegal war, abolishing free higher education and opening our borders to anyone and everyone. I'm sure Blair is living it up now and couldn't give a stuff about the mess he left behind.
Milliband should apologise for all these Labour failures if he wants people to trust the Labour party ever again :mad:
Indeed - 4 million is about a 7% increase in population .Labour 's open door free-for-all policy has left hospitals, schools, housing ... ...in a hell of a mess.
It's a pretty funny "open door, free for all" policy we have.
I mean, we're one of only two countries in Western Europe which requires immigration checks upon entry from other Western European countries.
We don't have a common visa programe with any other country apart from Ireland (which is our only open border, just to clarify).
We have one of the strictest visa application process in the world and pretty much anyone not from the EU, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand require a vise to even set foot in the country, even if they are in transit!
Here is the official UKBA list of countries which require visas to come to the UK:
We have one of the strictest visa application process in the world and pretty much anyone not from the EU, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand require a vise to even set foot in the country, even if they are in transit!
Here is the official UKBA list of countries which require visas to come to the UK:
It's a pretty funny "open door, free for all" policy we have.
I mean, we're one of only two countries in Western Europe which requires immigration checks upon entry from other Western European countries.
We don't have a common visa programe with any other country apart from Ireland (which is our only open border, just to clarify).
We have one of the strictest visa application process in the world and pretty much anyone not from the EU, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand require a vise to even set foot in the country, even if they are in transit!
Here is the official UKBA list of countries which require visas to come to the UK:
Please clarify your definition of "open door, free for all" as it seems to me this is quite a difficult country to get in to.
Oh, I love you so much Blofeld! I wish I could give you a hug!
When my parents and grandparents have ranted on about how too easy it is to come to the UK in comparison to say Australia for example, I have showed some of the information you stated above to them until I am blue in the face, yet they say it is just simply a load of bull they won't swallow! :rolleyes:
People say that we are hard done to when we visit say Turkey for example because of us having to pay for a visa to enter Turkey, yet the Turkish can visit the UK for free without a visa! I have pointed out that a Turkish person can't get a visa on arrival to visit the UK and they have to apply for a visa in advance and pay a lot more than we would for a Turkish visa.
How about a holiday to Russia? Yes, I know that getting the visa can be very difficult and expensive, but Russians pay even more for a UK visa and have to fill out application paperwork worth 28 pages, compared to two or three pages for a Russian visa! :eek:
Hardly the softest, free for all nation in the world now are we? :rolleyes:
When my parents and grandparents have ranted on about how too easy it is to come to the UK in comparison to say Australia for example, I have showed some of the information you stated above to them until I am blue in the face, yet they say it is just simply a load of bull they won't swallow! :rolleyes:
No problem. I work very closely with the UKBA in my job (I do not work FOR the UKBA or any other government department) and I can assure you this is not by any means an easy country to get in to!
It's a pretty funny "open door, free for all" policy we have.
I mean, we're one of only two countries in Western Europe which requires immigration checks upon entry from other Western European countries.
We don't have a common visa programe with any other country apart from Ireland (which is our only open border, just to clarify).
We have one of the strictest visa application process in the world and pretty much anyone not from the EU, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand require a vise to even set foot in the country, even if they are in transit!
Here is the official UKBA list of countries which require visas to come to the UK:
No problem. I work very closely with the UKBA in my job (I do not work FOR the UKBA or any other government department) and I can assure you this is not by any means an easy country to get in to!
Do you know which country's nationals get refused UK visas the most, ie Indians or Pakistanis?
Do you know which country's nationals get refused UK visas the most, ie Indians or Pakistanis?
No, I don't think they would give out such info to me. I work closely with UKBA agents, i.e. the front line staff who decide who can and cannot enter the country.
Well you seemed to be delighted that people from practically every country require a visa to even set foot in the country, apart from the almost 1 billion people in the 3 places you mentioned and however many people live in the other 60 countries who dont require a visa according to the list you posted.
Please clarify your definition of "open door, free for all" as it seems to me this is quite a difficult country to get in to.
I'm guessing it's the way all Eastern Europeans have the right to enter & stay in the UK regardless of their ability to speak English, that have any financial security to support themselves and their automatic right to claim benefits.
The Labour party took no steps (unlike every other EU nation bar two) to limit this access and vastly underestimated the scale of Polish people who suddenly arrived on these shores.
We now have the prospect of the same thing as Romania and Bulgaria, two of Europe's least developed countries, have free movement to the UK and the right to stay here
Well yes, you would have thought all that lot would have done the trick.
I'm not sure why you're banging on about 4,000,000 people out of an estimated 7,000,000,000 + in the world. You do realise that people also leave the UK every day to go and live elsewhere?
Well you seemed to be delighted that people from practically every country require a visa to even set foot in the country, apart from the almost 1 billion people in the 3 places you mentioned and however many people live in the other 60 countries who dont require a visa according to the list you posted.
I don't think anyone should need a little bit of paper in a little booklet to enter another bit of land, really.
I'm not sure why you're banging on about 4,000,000 people out of an estimated 7,000,000,000 + in the world. You do realise that people also leave the UK every day to go and live elsewhere?
Well you seemed to be delighted that people from practically every country require a visa to even set foot in the country, apart from the almost 1 billion people in the 3 places you mentioned and however many people live in the other 60 countries who dont require a visa according to the list you posted.
Usually visa-free agreements are reciprocal and between nations of a similar economic stature. For example, the USA and Britain has visa-free agreements. So does Britain with Japan and Singapore, all of which are richer than the UK.
Anyway, we, as members of the EU have the right to live and work anywhere else in the EU too. It's not a one way thing. Eastern Europeans saw the benefit in moving Westward, for any number of reasons. It's no different to British people moving to France, Italy, Greece, Spain or Portugal to retire (although at least the Polish do contribute via tax and working). It's no different to British builders going to Germany in the 1980's and 1990's. People go where the money and jobs are, it makes sense.
I already said I don't work on the front line. I have no say over who comes or goes. I merely work with UKBA agents. I don't do their job.
Fair enough but when the entire first world and most of the second dont require a visa it seems kind of funny to use the fact that other places do as a reason to claim we have closed borders.
Usually visa-free agreements are reciprocal and between nations of a similar economic stature. For example, the USA and Britain has visa-free agreements. So does Britain with Japan and Singapore, all of which are richer than the UK.
The UK is one of the few countries which are not eligable to enter the Green Card Lottery for the right to live and work in the USA. Unless you are from Northern Ireland anyway.
This is because too many British people have moved to the USA in the last 5 years. How people from this country can criticies Eastern Europeans for moving Westward for jobs and money is beyond me seeing as how people from this country do the exact same thing!
Comments
On the one hand, immigration is blamed for groaning infrastructure, higher house prices, and driving down wages. On the other hand, it's lauded for keeping the economy dynamic.
Culturally there is only praise - no-one ever points out that on a cultural level there are a lot of negative points just as there are positive and negative points economically, and arguably the cultural points mass immigration is lauded for are nonsense when you examine them - usually the best things people can come up with are better food (which is just trivial) and Isn't It Wonderful That We're a More Tolerant Society™, which is also nonsense because Britain has historically been one of the most tolerant societies in the world, if not the most tolerant (and consistently more tolerant than the cultures we have invited in to educate ourselves about tolerance), so we didn't really need any lessons on that score in the first place.
Because they undercut the British skilled workforce. Why pay £500 for a job that needs doing when a Pole can do it for £200 or a Romanian can do for £100.
Which was basically the plan all along by Parliament, to drive wages down.
I don't think you can classify resentment towards travellers in Essex (or anywhere else for that matter) as being anti-Irish. People understand the difference between them and Irish people in general - in fact the Irish themselves are not particularly keen on that particular group of people either, from what I hear.
A lot of good a points based system is when you have open borders to the 8 poorest countries in europe, when people coming here have higher rates of unemployment compared to people already here, when women coming from some non european countries have an unemployment rate of around 75% and that about 50% of the people coming here work in low skilled and low paid jobs whilst everyone is running around talking about unemployment and housing problems.
All thanks to Nu Labour, the party who shit well and truly over the very people they claimed to stand up for :mad:
Tony Blair is the Thatcher of the 21st Century, a man so obsessed with being right. Blair will be remembered for his illegal war, abolishing free higher education and opening our borders to anyone and everyone. I'm sure Blair is living it up now and couldn't give a stuff about the mess he left behind.
Milliband should apologise for all these Labour failures if he wants people to trust the Labour party ever again :mad:
It's a pretty funny "open door, free for all" policy we have.
I mean, we're one of only two countries in Western Europe which requires immigration checks upon entry from other Western European countries.
We don't have a common visa programe with any other country apart from Ireland (which is our only open border, just to clarify).
We have one of the strictest visa application process in the world and pretty much anyone not from the EU, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand require a vise to even set foot in the country, even if they are in transit!
Here is the official UKBA list of countries which require visas to come to the UK:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/appendix1/
Here's a list of rules regarding coming to the UK (updated as of October 2012, by the current government one would assume):
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/
Here's a list of various visa application forms for the UK:
https://apply.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/iapply.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=formList&com.sun.faces.portlet.CLEAR_STATE=true&_nfls=false#W
Please clarify your definition of "open door, free for all" as it seems to me this is quite a difficult country to get in to.
So that leaves about 50% of the world who dont need a visa then?
I don't see the problem?
When my parents and grandparents have ranted on about how too easy it is to come to the UK in comparison to say Australia for example, I have showed some of the information you stated above to them until I am blue in the face, yet they say it is just simply a load of bull they won't swallow! :rolleyes:
People say that we are hard done to when we visit say Turkey for example because of us having to pay for a visa to enter Turkey, yet the Turkish can visit the UK for free without a visa! I have pointed out that a Turkish person can't get a visa on arrival to visit the UK and they have to apply for a visa in advance and pay a lot more than we would for a Turkish visa.
How about a holiday to Russia? Yes, I know that getting the visa can be very difficult and expensive, but Russians pay even more for a UK visa and have to fill out application paperwork worth 28 pages, compared to two or three pages for a Russian visa! :eek:
Hardly the softest, free for all nation in the world now are we? :rolleyes:
No problem. I work very closely with the UKBA in my job (I do not work FOR the UKBA or any other government department) and I can assure you this is not by any means an easy country to get in to!
Well yes, you would have thought all that lot would have done the trick...if you needed a visa
It was more a reference to the EU accession states...and Tony Blair's non existent immigration policy
No, I don't think they would give out such info to me. I work closely with UKBA agents, i.e. the front line staff who decide who can and cannot enter the country.
Well you seemed to be delighted that people from practically every country require a visa to even set foot in the country, apart from the almost 1 billion people in the 3 places you mentioned and however many people live in the other 60 countries who dont require a visa according to the list you posted.
I'm guessing it's the way all Eastern Europeans have the right to enter & stay in the UK regardless of their ability to speak English, that have any financial security to support themselves and their automatic right to claim benefits.
The Labour party took no steps (unlike every other EU nation bar two) to limit this access and vastly underestimated the scale of Polish people who suddenly arrived on these shores.
We now have the prospect of the same thing as Romania and Bulgaria, two of Europe's least developed countries, have free movement to the UK and the right to stay here
I'm not sure why you're banging on about 4,000,000 people out of an estimated 7,000,000,000 + in the world. You do realise that people also leave the UK every day to go and live elsewhere?
I don't think anyone should need a little bit of paper in a little booklet to enter another bit of land, really.
Good job you work on the front line with the border agency then lol
I already said I don't work on the front line. I have no say over who comes or goes. I merely work with UKBA agents. I don't do their job.
Relatively not very many though..
Open door was regarding Eastern EU
Usually visa-free agreements are reciprocal and between nations of a similar economic stature. For example, the USA and Britain has visa-free agreements. So does Britain with Japan and Singapore, all of which are richer than the UK.
Not a "free for all" then is it.
Anyway, we, as members of the EU have the right to live and work anywhere else in the EU too. It's not a one way thing. Eastern Europeans saw the benefit in moving Westward, for any number of reasons. It's no different to British people moving to France, Italy, Greece, Spain or Portugal to retire (although at least the Polish do contribute via tax and working). It's no different to British builders going to Germany in the 1980's and 1990's. People go where the money and jobs are, it makes sense.
Thats ok ..neither do they....:p
Fair enough but when the entire first world and most of the second dont require a visa it seems kind of funny to use the fact that other places do as a reason to claim we have closed borders.
The UK is one of the few countries which are not eligable to enter the Green Card Lottery for the right to live and work in the USA. Unless you are from Northern Ireland anyway.
This is because too many British people have moved to the USA in the last 5 years. How people from this country can criticies Eastern Europeans for moving Westward for jobs and money is beyond me seeing as how people from this country do the exact same thing!