Slightly off-topic: Do people usually go barmy in a four-month relationship?
I have no experience with violent jealous/possessive people, so I have no idea how it usually goes. Do they flare up violently within days or months of dating? How soon does a volatile relationship usually develop?
I suppose I'm struggling to accept that a person could throw away their international career, freedom and whatnot to murder a girl/boyfriend of four months in a fit of jealous rage. Admittedly, I also find it tough to believe that someone like Reeva would tolerate jealous rages from anyone. I can imagine her excusing his temper, because their relationship was new and blah blah, but only as long as it wasn't directed at her or other people, or when not frequent.
Yeah I find that hard to believe as well. But didn't even one of his character referees say in their statement that Reeva had
said he was intense?
Threatening to break someone's legs because of an issue with another short-term girlfriend would suggest his anger could flare up over short term relationships.
It seems likely to conclude he shot Reeva because he was an aggressive dangerous person, because there's plenty of incidents reported where he's acted in an aggressive manner and considering the woman is now dead who was in his company for the night.
Nothing difficult there to be concluded.
It doesn't seem 'likely at all'.
And there aren't 'plenty of incidents' either. Most of his former partners have come out and said he was extremely polite, gentle and unthreatening.
Jemma Edkins wrote: "I have dated Oscar on and off for 5 YEARS, NOT ONCE has he EVER lifted a finger to me or made me fear for my life."
At the moment there is absolutely no evidence that Oscar shot his girlfriend in some bizarre jealous rage.
It was during the day and he had his legs on, he did get his gun and go into the room armed.
According to his twitter (we all exaggerate on twitter!)
Part of me wonders if he wanted to act out the hero, show his new GF how amazing he was by saving her from an intruder. Only he got so carried away in the moment, he forget to check there actually was an intruder.
I can sometimes believe he thought there might have been an intruder, but I can't believe his version of events and being petrified. His actions contradict how he says he was feeling
According to his twitter (we all exaggerate on twitter!)
Part of me wonders if he wanted to act out the hero, show his new GF how amazing he was by saving her from an intruder. Only he got so carried away in the moment, he forget to check there actually was an intruder.
I can sometimes believe he thought there might have been an intruder, but I can't believe his version of events and being petrified. His actions contradict how he says he was feeling
I can see how that could happen. I just dont think he fired the shots knowing that it was her in the toilet.
And there aren't 'plenty of incidents' either. Most of his former partners have come out and said he was extremely polite, gentle and unthreatening.
Jemma Edkins wrote: "I have dated Oscar on and off for 5 YEARS, NOT ONCE has he EVER lifted a finger to me or made me fear for my life."
At the moment there is absolutely no evidence that Oscar shot his girlfriend in some bizarre jealous rage.
On the other hand, a partner has come out saying she found him aggressive and threatening.
Another athlete at the paralympics moved out of rooming with him because of his rages were worrying to him.
Another incident where somebody was concerned because he threatened to "fck him over", because of a woman.
At the Games, he tried to intimidate another athlete for winning a race of which he felt entitled to win and followed that athlete while he was on his lap of honour.
The guy had a questionable interest in firearms and anger issues. Not unlike profiles of people who have gone on rampages
On the other hand, a partner has come out saying she found him aggressive and threatening.
Another athlete at the paralympics moved out of rooming with him because of his rages were worrying to him.
Another incident where somebody was concerned because he threatened to "fck him over", because of a woman.
At the Games, he tried to intimidate another athlete for winning a race of which he felt entitled to win and followed that athlete while he was on his lap of honour.
The guy had a questionable interest in firearms and anger issues. Not unlike profiles of people who have gone on rampages
I don't think those things makes him an 'aggressively dangerous' person. He sounds intense, driven and focused, but that is a long way from going ape with a gun four months into a relationship. I've shouted on the telephone a number of times but it doesn't make me an unhinged psycho.
As for that woman who found him threatening, I just hear sour grapes because she probably got dumped.
I think Oscar went down to the bathroom with the gun, and it was the sight of the bathroom window being open that convinced him that a (potentially armed) intruder had got into the house and was hiding in the toilet.
He may have been somewhat overcontrolled, but the safety valve, not being used too often, is defective; so that when he does lose control, it can take some time to regain his composure. This would make him appear differently to different people.
Can I just comment on how maturely posters have behaved in this thread. There is a lot of discussion and disagreement, but so far it has been pretty civilized.
If you think how something might seem, when you think about it rationally, in the cold light of day is the same as how it would actually seem, in the dead of night, then I think that's incredibly naive of you.
That people react differently in stressful situations, to how they think they might react, is well documented, regardless of what you might think.
He does sound like he was living in fear with his twitter accounts of thinking someone was in his house on hearing the washing machine and in the interviews he gave where he clearly stated what weapons he had to defend himself.
I've never even visited South Africa, let alone stayed there and I'm not an amputee so obviously feel I can't comment whether his fear was justified or not.
I'm certainly not defending his actions but merely stating I believe his account of what happened.
He does sound like he was living in fear with his twitter accounts of thinking someone was in his house on hearing the washing machine and in the interviews he gave where he clearly stated what weapons he had to defend himself.
I've never even visited South Africa, let alone stayed there and I'm not an amputee so obviously feel I can't comment whether his fear was justified or not.
I'm certainly not defending his actions but merely stating I believe his account of what happened.
Agreed. I wouldn't defend his actions either but I have a lot of sympathy for his predicament. I can hardly think of anything worse.
The prosecutor mentioned the unlocked door though - so I presume it's clarified elsewhere by the defence that it was indeed unlocked
If the door had been unlocked, you wake up in the middle of the night and notice or remember it was unlocked, and then hear an unexpected noise in your home, the thought that the two are connected, and that an intruder had gotten in through the unlocked door is plausible.
On the other hand, a partner has come out saying she found him aggressive and threatening.
Another athlete at the paralympics moved out of rooming with him because of his rages were worrying to him.
Another incident where somebody was concerned because he threatened to "fck him over", because of a woman.
At the Games, he tried to intimidate another athlete for winning a race of which he felt entitled to win and followed that athlete while he was on his lap of honour.
The guy had a questionable interest in firearms and anger issues. Not unlike profiles of people who have gone on rampages
All of which would reasonably explain why he would grab a gun, and shoot whom he thought was an intruder in his home.
Just as much as it would explain why he would grab a gun and shoot his girlfriend.
It certainly doesn't make it more likely that he would have shot Reeva rather than think he was shooting an intruder.
If you think how something might seem, when you think about it rationally, in the cold light of day is the same as how it would actually seem, in the dead of night, then I think that's incredibly naive of you.
That people react differently in stressful situations, to how they think they might react, is well documented, regardless of what you might think.
Yes but the stressful situation he was acting on was an argument with his girlfriend, who is now dead.
You forget, there was no intruder. He's made that up to get himself off the hook.
The thing about the 'testosterone' is odd. The defence said that the police had actually misidentified a homeopathic remedy that all the papers have reported as 'testocompostium'.
I can't find any such substance, but there is a homeopathic treatment called 'Testis Compositum', which is widely sold. Its purpose is 'For the temporary relief of symptoms associated with male sexual weakness such as; Lack of stamina, nocturnal emissions, and male hormone imbalance'.
Yes but the stressful situation he was acting on was an argument with his girlfriend, who is now dead.
You forget, there was no intruder. He's made that up to get himself off the hook.
Well, you seem to forget that the inescapable truth is we don't know that he made it up.
I think Oscar went down to the bathroom with the gun, and it was the sight of the bathroom window being open that convinced him that a (potentially armed) intruder had got into the house and was hiding in the toilet.
Well thankgoodness that has been solved then /caseclosed
The thing about the 'testosterone' is odd. The defence said that the police had actually misidentified a homeopathic remedy that all the papers have reported as 'testocompostium'.
I can't find any such substance, but there is a homeopathic treatment called 'Testis Compositum', which is widely sold. Its purpose is 'For the temporary relief of symptoms associated with male sexual weakness such as; Lack of stamina, nocturnal emissions, and male hormone imbalance'.
Well, the inescapable truth is we don't know that he made it up.
No we don't - but we don't know if he is being truthful either and on balance there are enough witness statements and inexplicable bits in his account to cast reasonable doubt in some people's minds.
Hopefully the forensic evidence in the full trial will help to elucidate what actually happened.
The shooting through the door is the problem. The idea behind that is that he could not tell who was behind the door; indeed, he could not know if there was someone, that is, anyone, behind the door. The argument is that he could not have intent to kill, therefore. Also, the concomittant idea is that he could not know, since he could not aim at anyone behind the door, because it was locked, that firing through the door would hit anyone, further reducing intent. So, if he cannot aim at the target, because he cannot see the target, how come the bullets actually hit the target, including a head shot ? That is extraordinary bad luck.
I might believe him if he said the toilet door was open and in the dim light he saw a figure and shot, without discerning who it was, but that he did aim at the target figure, and that he hit the target because he actually aimed at the target, not knowing who it was, but under the unfortunate misapprehension that it was an intruder.
Yes but the stressful situation he was acting on was an argument with his girlfriend, who is now dead.
You forget, there was no intruder. He's made that up to get himself off the hook.
Well we shall have to wait and see.
I believe he woke in the night and was perhaps aware of his girlfriend next to him in the bed.
He got up, opened the balcony doors, and went out to get the fan (we don't know at the moment why he went to get the fan).
The action of getting up awoke his girlfriend who, while Oscar was padding around on the balcony, went into the bathroom to use the toilet.
In Oscar's mind she is still in bed.
On returning to the dark bedroom he hears something in the bathroom and goes to get his gun. He probably isn't sure what is making the noise at this point, and (fatally) he doesn't believe it is his girlfriend because he thinks she's still in bed.
He doesn't put a light on as i) he's scared and ii) he probably realises that putting a light on would give an intruder the advantage and alert them to the fact that they've been caught.
He goes into the bathroom without his prosthetic legs and sees the bathroom window is open. I suspect that this is the moment when he panics.
The bedroom door is locked, the bathroom is empty and the only place an intruder could be is inside the toilet.
Imagine being in your own house, at night, in the dark, in South Africa of all places, already paranoid about security, and thinking that a potentially violent intruder is in the toilet.
Oscar then called back to his girlfriend to get police and shouted at the intruder to get out.
Then he decides that, having shouted out and revealed himself, the 'intruder' could suddenly open the toilet door and start shooting.
He pre-empts this by shooting first through the bathroom door.
I'm not saying there aren't issues with his story, the main one being 'why didn't he check that his girlfriend was in bed when he went to retrieve the gun?', but I think the sequence of events outlined above is at least plausible.
Comments
said he was intense?
Threatening to break someone's legs because of an issue with another short-term girlfriend would suggest his anger could flare up over short term relationships.
It doesn't seem 'likely at all'.
And there aren't 'plenty of incidents' either. Most of his former partners have come out and said he was extremely polite, gentle and unthreatening.
Jemma Edkins wrote: "I have dated Oscar on and off for 5 YEARS, NOT ONCE has he EVER lifted a finger to me or made me fear for my life."
At the moment there is absolutely no evidence that Oscar shot his girlfriend in some bizarre jealous rage.
Reeva's friend has said that he treated her "like gold" and that she would have married him if he had asked.
According to his twitter (we all exaggerate on twitter!)
Part of me wonders if he wanted to act out the hero, show his new GF how amazing he was by saving her from an intruder. Only he got so carried away in the moment, he forget to check there actually was an intruder.
I can sometimes believe he thought there might have been an intruder, but I can't believe his version of events and being petrified. His actions contradict how he says he was feeling
I can see how that could happen. I just dont think he fired the shots knowing that it was her in the toilet.
I don't believe he did either.
On the other hand, a partner has come out saying she found him aggressive and threatening.
Another athlete at the paralympics moved out of rooming with him because of his rages were worrying to him.
Another incident where somebody was concerned because he threatened to "fck him over", because of a woman.
At the Games, he tried to intimidate another athlete for winning a race of which he felt entitled to win and followed that athlete while he was on his lap of honour.
The guy had a questionable interest in firearms and anger issues. Not unlike profiles of people who have gone on rampages
I don't think those things makes him an 'aggressively dangerous' person. He sounds intense, driven and focused, but that is a long way from going ape with a gun four months into a relationship. I've shouted on the telephone a number of times but it doesn't make me an unhinged psycho.
As for that woman who found him threatening, I just hear sour grapes because she probably got dumped.
If you think how something might seem, when you think about it rationally, in the cold light of day is the same as how it would actually seem, in the dead of night, then I think that's incredibly naive of you.
That people react differently in stressful situations, to how they think they might react, is well documented, regardless of what you might think.
Another believer of his story here.
He does sound like he was living in fear with his twitter accounts of thinking someone was in his house on hearing the washing machine and in the interviews he gave where he clearly stated what weapons he had to defend himself.
I've never even visited South Africa, let alone stayed there and I'm not an amputee so obviously feel I can't comment whether his fear was justified or not.
I'm certainly not defending his actions but merely stating I believe his account of what happened.
Agreed. I wouldn't defend his actions either but I have a lot of sympathy for his predicament. I can hardly think of anything worse.
If the door had been unlocked, you wake up in the middle of the night and notice or remember it was unlocked, and then hear an unexpected noise in your home, the thought that the two are connected, and that an intruder had gotten in through the unlocked door is plausible.
All of which would reasonably explain why he would grab a gun, and shoot whom he thought was an intruder in his home.
Just as much as it would explain why he would grab a gun and shoot his girlfriend.
It certainly doesn't make it more likely that he would have shot Reeva rather than think he was shooting an intruder.
I believe he shot at the toilet perhaps having being overcome by "red mist" knowing Reeva was there but didn't mean to kill her.
Yes but the stressful situation he was acting on was an argument with his girlfriend, who is now dead.
You forget, there was no intruder. He's made that up to get himself off the hook.
I can't find any such substance, but there is a homeopathic treatment called 'Testis Compositum', which is widely sold. Its purpose is 'For the temporary relief of symptoms associated with male sexual weakness such as; Lack of stamina, nocturnal emissions, and male hormone imbalance'.
Well, you seem to forget that the inescapable truth is we don't know that he made it up.
Well thankgoodness that has been solved then /caseclosed
Yes, it causes violent erections.
No we don't - but we don't know if he is being truthful either and on balance there are enough witness statements and inexplicable bits in his account to cast reasonable doubt in some people's minds.
Hopefully the forensic evidence in the full trial will help to elucidate what actually happened.
I might believe him if he said the toilet door was open and in the dim light he saw a figure and shot, without discerning who it was, but that he did aim at the target figure, and that he hit the target because he actually aimed at the target, not knowing who it was, but under the unfortunate misapprehension that it was an intruder.
Well we shall have to wait and see.
I'm not saying there aren't issues with his story, the main one being 'why didn't he check that his girlfriend was in bed when he went to retrieve the gun?', but I think the sequence of events outlined above is at least plausible.