BBC The Three Musketeers NEW Drama (Discussion/News/Speculation) (SPOILERS IN TAGS)

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  • slouchingthatchslouchingthatch Posts: 2,351
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    Thought the Catherine sub-plot was an utter waster of space, but otherwise a pretty good tee-up as the first part of the finale ... Here's my weekly review.
  • PretzelPretzel Posts: 7,858
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    Straker wrote: »
    MUCH better ep this week. A totally unhinged non-corridor-skulking Rochefort is just what this season has been waiting for.

    He's been unhinged almost since he arrived. Maybe the really crazy characters are those who haven't noticed. At least The Cardinal had some subtlety in his machinations.

    I quite liked it, but TBH I don't care about Constance (captured again-what a shock ;-)) and I love yous to d'Art because she won't die anyway. and Margeurite is still an enigma who I don't care about one way or another.

    Aramis was, understandably I suppose, strangely muted and much as I like Athos and Milady I really have trouble buying her redemption. This is a woman who murdered for a dress so it's pretty hard to root for her as a good guy. Catherine was wasted in the plot. This is woman with a burning need to avenge her nemesis yet she conveniently waits several weeks and strikes at the point when Athos is following? I almost feel sorry for her.

    I am glad that Porthos will get to save the day though, even if it does feel like they tacked that on the end because they haven't given much for him to do this year.

    I wasn't over fond of last years final, it felt very unsubtle save for a few scenes at the end so I'm hoping that I enjoy this one better.
  • crunchie crispcrunchie crisp Posts: 6,775
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    Constance screeching I love you D'artagnen reminded me so much of Flash Gordon

    " Flash I love you,but we only 24 hours to save the world":D:D Hubby looked at me as if i was nuts when I burst out laughing to myself :blush:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 790
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    So glad this show is back. Loved everything in this episode- fast paced and thoroughly entertaining apart from Katerine. That was very underwhelming. I must say Milady and Athos scenes were oozing with chemistry and that kiss was long time coming. I also loved the sister's one liners. Even Porthos was laughing. Was it just me or was the execution a shock. I was not expecting that. Far cry from how series one was. I also hated the I love you's Constance was screeching. I am so going to miss this show when it's over.
  • lindenlealindenlea Posts: 533
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    Constance screeching I love you D'artagnen reminded me so much of Flash Gordon

    " Flash I love you,but we only 24 hours to save the world":D:D Hubby looked at me as if i was nuts when I burst out laughing to myself :blush:

    :D

    I laughed like a drain when D'Artagnan said to her, "Never give up" … as my automatic response was, "Never surrender."
  • crunchie crispcrunchie crisp Posts: 6,775
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    lindenlea wrote: »
    :D

    I laughed like a drain when D'Artagnan said to her, "Never give up" … as my automatic response was, "Never surrender."

    I never heard that, was too hysterical at the imagined Flash quote :D
  • far2coolfar2cool Posts: 6,334
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    Brilliant episode!
    The minutes absolutely flew by!

    Can't wait for the finale
  • REVUpminsterREVUpminster Posts: 1,289
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    I thought it an excellent episode with the writer bringing elements from nearly all the episodes together; and King Louis is still hanging in there maybe for series three.
  • towerstowers Posts: 12,183
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    Great episode last night, this is how S1 should have been, though I would like to see SOME of S1's humour back in time for S3 and a bit more of the Musketeers in general - less court related stuff.

    Loved Athos and Milady and whilst I've been sat on the fence on whether she can be redeemed until recently, I now think she's manipulating Athos and still mostly out for herself, which means I don't think she will get full redemption this year. I also still think that Milady has a shelve-life that could become obvious by S3 if the writers aren't careful - I don't think she'll die.

    The actress playing Queen Anne has been great this year.

    I'm not entirely sure what the point of Catherine has been.

    Loved Marc Warren

    Dr Lemay's death was a shock, poor man, he was too nice for that.

    I still don't buy Constance's love for d'Artagnan and I still think Tamla Kari is one of the few OK actors on the show rather than the good actors most of the cast are. I can't take much of what she says seriously, including her 'I love you's' to d'Artagnan at the end because the actress looks and sounds too motherly. It hasn't been a great series for d'Artagnan and it's not helped that I don't get sexual chemistry between him and Constance.

    I must say, I thought the Musketeers took the news of Aramis fathering the Queen's baby quite well, I thought they'd fall out for at least 24 hours but I supoose there was no time for that..

    Porthos actually gets something important to do in the series final.
  • TalmaTalma Posts: 10,520
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    towers wrote: »
    Great episode last night, this is how S1 should have been, though I would like to see SOME of S1's humour back in time for S3 and a bit more of the Musketeers in general - less court related stuff.

    Loved Athos and Milady and whilst I've been sat on the fence on whether she can be redeemed until recently, I now think she's manipulating Athos and still mostly out for herself, which means I don't think she will get full redemption this year. I also still think that Milady has a shelve-life that could become obvious by S3 if the writers aren't careful - I don't think she'll die.

    The actress playing Queen Anne has been great this year.

    I'm not entirely sure what the point of Catherine has been.

    Loved Marc Warren

    Dr Lemay's death was a shock, poor man, he was too nice for that.

    I still don't buy Constance's love for d'Artagnan and I still think Tamla Kari is one of the few OK actors on the show rather than the good actors most of the cast are. I can't take much of what she says seriously, including her 'I love you's' to d'Artagnan at the end because the actress looks and sounds too motherly. It hasn't been a great series for d'Artagnan and it's not helped that I don't get sexual chemistry between him and Constance.

    I must say, I thought the Musketeers took the news of Aramis fathering the Queen's baby quite well, I thought they'd fall out for at least 24 hours but I supoose there was no time for that..

    Porthos actually gets something important to do in the series final.

    I agree with all,of this, the chemistry between Athos and Milady is just amazing, but she knows exactly what she's doing, whatever that is.

    I must admit the big reveal that Aramis and the Queen have put them all in danger of being executed for treason, that completely OTT loopy Rochefort knows it and France is in danger of being invaded was received very well by the people he's been deceiving all this time, it was almost 'oh well, that's Aramis, that's what he does...'

    Not to mention they are actually the King's musketeers, personally commissioned, etc and drew their swords in a hostile manner in the king's presence - which he pointed out - means all of them are guilty anyway.

    Just wondering what the rest of the regiment is doing while Treville (why did they just leave them without a captain after demoting him months ago?) and the others are rushing all over France committing treason? Probably thinking 'oh well, that's what they do...':)
  • Friday's childFriday's child Posts: 100
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    Things that I would like to happen in the finale (note: I don't expect any of these to actually happen)

    Constance dies.

    Aramis gets to kill Rochefort.

    Marguerite survives and gets redemption (my guess is she'll get half of this wish - redemption through death).
  • Collins1965Collins1965 Posts: 13,806
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    Loved it.

    Rochfort is completely insane, great to watch. I wish Constance had been beheaded instead of the nice doctor.

    That was some kiss between Milady and Athos - the chemistry is sizzling with those two!
  • PretzelPretzel Posts: 7,858
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    Things that I would like to happen in the finale (note: I don't expect any of these to actually happen)

    Constance dies.

    Aramis gets to kill Rochefort.

    Marguerite survives and gets redemption (my guess is she'll get half of this wish - redemption through death).

    I'm surprised at the amount of people who want Constance to die. On another site I look at she's popular and they love the big romance with d'Artagnan. I say look at, I wouIdn't dream of posting there because I'm fairly indifferent to their saga. I don't mind her, it's her brave damsel in distress routine which irritates me, I wish they'd change the record and do something else with the character. Anyway, she won't die, I have no spoiler knowledge but I'd put money on a last minute escape courtesy of her one true love and it will be all hearts and flowers at the end for them.

    I'm less sure of the fate of Milady- (I know that we're supposed to love plucky Constance- we're hammered over the head with that) I am far less sure how we're supposed to feel about Milady. I now suspect that she will survive somehow and go on to perhaps disappear to come back to fight another day. I'm not so sure I want to see her and Athos carry on this toxic dance for another series though. I mean they're hot together and all that, but it does leave his character in limbo but at the same time I cannot see how she can be redeemed, not in my mind anyway.

    Rochefort will die, no doubt about that and The King will somehow not find out about Anne and Aramis (or if he does he'll think it was Rocheforts lies) . Now I love Aramis, he's without doubt my favourite, but it would be fantastically brave and kind of interesting if they went through with his death. It would be kind of poetic for Aramis to die for love, but they won't, they're not that sort of show.

    Margeurite will I hope be gone by the end of the series, but much as I dislike her I hope that she doesn't die, she can just be sent off somewhere never to be mentioned again. I also think that she may have some sort of redemption and come good in the end, but they left it too late for us to care about her.
  • towerstowers Posts: 12,183
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    Pretzel wrote: »
    I'm surprised at the amount of people who want Constance to die. On another site I look at she's popular and they love the big romance with d'Artagnan. I say look at, I wouIdn't dream of posting there because I'm fairly indifferent to their saga. I don't mind her, it's her brave damsel in distress routine which irritates me, I wish they'd change the record and do something else with the character. Anyway, she won't die, I have no spoiler knowledge but I'd put money on a last minute escape courtesy of her one true love and it will be all hearts and flowers at the end for them.

    I'm less sure of the fate of Milady- (I know that we're supposed to love plucky Constance- we're hammered over the head with that) I am far less sure how we're supposed to feel about Milady. I now suspect that she will survive somehow and go on to perhaps disappear to come back to fight another day. I'm not so sure I want to see her and Athos carry on this toxic dance for another series though. I mean they're hot together and all that, but it does leave his character in limbo but at the same time I cannot see how she can be redeemed, not in my mind anyway.

    Rochefort will die, no doubt about that and The King will somehow not find out about Anne and Aramis (or if he does he'll think it was Rocheforts lies) . Now I love Aramis, he's without doubt my favourite, but it would be fantastically brave and kind of interesting if they went through with his death. It would be kind of poetic for Aramis to die for love, but they won't, they're not that sort of show.

    Margeurite will I hope be gone by the end of the series, but much as I dislike her I hope that she doesn't die, she can just be sent off somewhere never to be mentioned again. I also think that she may have some sort of redemption and come good in the end, but they left it too late for us to care about her.

    I think Athos is in danger of becoming a caricature of himself if S3 doesn't give him some fresh materiel to work with, that has nothing to do with Milady and little to do with standing around uttering fairly amusing one-liners. Similarly d'Artagnan needs a major storyline away from passionless Constance.

    There's a lot of shippers on some Musketeer websites - like there were on Torchwood fan sites when I was part of that fandom, Jack/Ianto and Jack/Gwen especially - and many of them say things like '"if Constance dies, I'm not watching the show anymore" and "if Aramis and Anne are no more, I might not watch the show anymore" as if they seriously thought Aramis / Anne would be each other's 'endgame / OTP' as it were. I watch for the 4 Musketeers and the storylines in general.

    As much as I'm looking forward to the final, my only issue is that the writing will be fairly predictable, so there won't be any genuine drama to be had

    Constance will live - you just know it - and she and d'Artagnan will have the happiest ending of the three ships
    Milady will live - so that Athos can live another day to brood over her - and she will be partly redeemed but not fuly.
    one or more of the Musketeers will kill Rochefort, he won't go down quietly
    the King will not seriously suspect that he's not the father of the heir to the throne and will have faith in his Musketeers again
    Aramis will probably feel guilty over his treatment of Margerite and his risky behaviour with Anne and end up reflecting on his life where women are concerned
    Porthos will do a great job fetching this guy - validating Treville's confidence in him.

    It's really only Catherine's fate and Marguerite's fate that I can't be certain of but most viewers don't care about them...
  • TiggywinkTiggywink Posts: 3,687
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    I think the whole thing is worse off for the loss of the Cardinal. In Series one, IMHO, they all had a clearly defined role and the structure of it all was better defined. I find stuff in this series much less believable. Milady is some kind of plot device but the character has lost its definition and hopefully will not be reprised. I like Constance but not as much as in series one.
  • kat180kat180 Posts: 911
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    Constance calling out 'I love you' is cringe-inducing. Why do they always slow things down when she yells that to him so it sounds even more ridiculous?

    I still don't want her to die - I just wish she was a better-written character and they had more passion. The kiss between Athos and Milady was electric - now that's a couple with chemistry.

    I think Milady will be redeemed somewhat but she can never been fully redeemed - she's gone too far and the other Musketeers would never accept her presence as a 'comrade' in the long term. Athos is finally realising that he's refusal to believe her led them on this path and seems to be starting to forgive her for his brother's death/her deception about her childhood, so I think if she dies their story will have come full-circle. I don't see how we can have another series of him angsting over her. It would be nice in series 3 to see him move on, and actually find some peace and happiness. I do miss his amusing one-liners this series.

    Thats being said - the two of them working together in the earlier episode and him completely flummoxed that she was helping them was highly amusing to watch and the two of them flirting has been one of the best things this series so it would be a shame to loose that dynamic....
  • TalmaTalma Posts: 10,520
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    [QUOTE=kat180;

    Thats being said - the two of them working together in the earlier episode and him completely flummoxed that she was helping them was highly amusing to watch and the two of them flirting has been one of the best things this series so it would be a shame to loose that dynamic....[/QUOTE]

    Isn't she enjoying running rings round him though? The poor man looks completely out of his depth and I'm surprised he was thinking straight enough to swipe the seal:)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 60
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    I'm also surprised at the hostility towards Constance. I find her a totally admirable character, and I love her romance with D'Artagnan. She's had to repress her feelings for a long time, so it's only natural that she wants to express them now she is free to do so. When she thinks she is going to die, she wants her last words to him to be 'I love you.' Most people would do the same. I sincerely hope she will survive. I don't have a problem with this being predictable. A last-minute rescue could be exciting and dramatic. It depends on how it is written, and I trust the writers to make it so. I'm glad that this show seems to go against the current fashion of killing off main characters just for shock value. That also becomes dull and predictable after a while. It's braver to tell a more traditional type of story in which the heroes and heroines survive. I love all the main characters in this and want all of them to live to fight another day. Here's hoping... :)
  • deeannjaydeeannjay Posts: 80
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    I'm also surprised at the hostility towards Constance. I find her a totally admirable character, and I love her romance with D'Artagnan. She's had to repress her feelings for a long time, so it's only natural that she wants to express them now she is free to do so. When she thinks she is going to die, she wants her last words to him to be 'I love you.' Most people would do the same. I sincerely hope she will survive. I don't have a problem with this being predictable. A last-minute rescue could be exciting and dramatic. It depends on how it is written, and I trust the writers to make it so. I'm glad that this show seems to go against the current fashion of killing off main characters just for shock value. That also becomes dull and predictable after a while. It's braver to tell a more traditional type of story in which the heroes and heroines survive. I love all the main characters in this and want all of them to live to fight another day. Here's hoping... :)

    I, too, hope all the main characters (with the possible exception of Rochefort) survive to the next series, as I think they all add to the story in their own way. Mind you, knowing Santiago's luck (Isaac in Heroes, Lancelot in Merlin) I do fear a bit for Aramis! And, if that WERE to be the case, that would be me gone for Series 3, as he's the main reason I watch the show.
  • towerstowers Posts: 12,183
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    I'm also surprised at the hostility towards Constance. I find her a totally admirable character, and I love her romance with D'Artagnan. She's had to repress her feelings for a long time, so it's only natural that she wants to express them now she is free to do so. When she thinks she is going to die, she wants her last words to him to be 'I love you.' Most people would do the same. I sincerely hope she will survive. I don't have a problem with this being predictable. A last-minute rescue could be exciting and dramatic. It depends on how it is written, and I trust the writers to make it so. I'm glad that this show seems to go against the current fashion of killing off main characters just for shock value. That also becomes dull and predictable after a while. It's braver to tell a more traditional type of story in which the heroes and heroines survive. I love all the main characters in this and want all of them to live to fight another day. Here's hoping... :)

    I like Constance but she shows very little romantic passion or desire towards d'Artagnan and for people who love sexual tension in their tv romances - hence one of the reasons why Athos & Milady get so many people excited - it's a problem. I can't always 'feel the love' as far as Constance is concerned and I've noticed a number of people semi-joke that Constance is probably "more in love with Queen Anne than d'Artagnan" and I can see why.

    I think how people feel about 'Constagnan' is often down to how important sexual tension is to them. I can see that Constance loves d'Artagnan generally but I don't easily get that she's 'in love' with him. Mum thought she had better chemistry with Dr Lemay and so did many other people..

    Also, whilst the boys are very much written as having flaws, Constance is written as almost being flawless - which is a danger in itself, ie the Mary Sue character..

    I've just got to live with my 'she's OK' feelings about Constance :) and hope d'Artagnan has a big storyline that doesn't involve her next year - though I'm sure they'll be a solid couple by then..
  • PretzelPretzel Posts: 7,858
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    I'm also surprised at the hostility towards Constance. I find her a totally admirable character, and I love her romance with D'Artagnan. She's had to repress her feelings for a long time, so it's only natural that she wants to express them now she is free to do so. When she thinks she is going to die, she wants her last words to him to be 'I love you.' Most people would do the same. I sincerely hope she will survive. I don't have a problem with this being predictable. A last-minute rescue could be exciting and dramatic. It depends on how it is written, and I trust the writers to make it so. I'm glad that this show seems to go against the current fashion of killing off main characters just for shock value. That also becomes dull and predictable after a while. It's braver to tell a more traditional type of story in which the heroes and heroines survive. I love all the main characters in this and want all of them to live to fight another day. Here's hoping... :)

    I don't dislike Constance and I'm certainly not hostile towards her I just find her character a bit of of TV trope. Whenever they need a female to join the mission, , perform a little fight move, be kidnapped (a lot) and be brave and stoic, they use Constance. She's too sweet, too good and that makes me think that she's the favourite, a bit of a Disney heroine. She's always been like that but I preferred her in the last series where she at least had friends (Fleur), interests (her house and her husbands business) outside of The Musketeers.

    The Musketeers isn't terribly sophisticated writing but Constance and d'Artgagnan I feel is the bit which is pretty naive and simplistic. Perhaps they are meant to appeal to younger viewers and that's fair enough. Anyway, people like what they like, but I must admit I was hoping the show would get a bit more adult going forward. However, if series three is to be the trials and tribulations of Constagnan the great romance then so be it, I've enjoyed it while it lasted, I'll probably wish them well and give it a pass.
    deeannjay wrote: »
    I, too, hope all the main characters (with the possible exception of Rochefort) survive to the next series, as I think they all add to the story in their own way. Mind you, knowing Santiago's luck (Isaac in Heroes, Lancelot in Merlin) I do fear a bit for Aramis! And, if that WERE to be the case, that would be me gone for Series 3, as he's the main reason I watch the show.

    I don't want characters killed at the drop of a hat, although they seem to find minor characters pretty expendable on The Musketeers, it's just that it's got to the stage where I don't feel that there's any peril in some of the situations with the main ones (with the exception perhaps of Milady) so in some ways I think it would be good to kill off a main character, I really do.

    Not Aramis preferably, because like with you he's my favourite, but sometimes you need that realism in what is a very violent world, otherwise it's too predictable.

    Regarding main characters leaving I think that the producers are more vulnerable to the actors wanting to leave than the other way round. The show has struggled in the ratings and although it has been renewed due to overseas sales there's probably a lot of discussion as to how and when it will actually be shown in the UK going forward. I can't see BBC1 wanting to give it a prime time spot without changes, so who knows what the future holds.
  • towerstowers Posts: 12,183
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    Pretzel wrote: »
    I don't dislike Constance and I'm certainly not hostile towards her I just find her character a bit of of TV trope. Whenever they need a female to join the mission, , perform a little fight move, be kidnapped (a lot) and be brave and stoic, they use Constance. She's too sweet, too good and that makes me think that she's the favourite, a bit of a Disney heroine. She's always been like that but I preferred her in the last series where she at least had friends (Fleur), interests (her house and her husbands business) outside of The Musketeers.

    The Musketeers isn't terribly sophisticated writing but Constance and d'Artgagnan I feel is the bit which is pretty naive and simplistic. Perhaps they are meant to appeal to younger viewers and that's fair enough. Anyway, people like what they like, but I must admit I was hoping the show would get a bit more adult going forward. However, if series three is to be the trials and tribulations of Constagnan the great romance then so be it, I've enjoyed it while it lasted, I'll probably wish them well and give it a pass.

    S3 is going to be about war with Spain, as far as early indications go, which means Constagnan should be kept apart much of the time and we'll see more of d'Artagnan-the-solider and less of d'Artagnan pining over Constance.

    I want more of the boys in S3, the secondary characters have been too prominant this year, especially Constance.

    As for actors leaving, it appears the main cast were on a 3 year contract, so even if a fourth series is a posibility - S3 performs better than expected - one or two of the main cast might be tempted to leave by then, although it's always a risk to leave a secure(ish) job in favour of pastures new.. It was rumoured over Xmas that Tom Burke had expressed a desire to leave after S3 during a carol service but it wasn't confirmed.
  • TalmaTalma Posts: 10,520
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    towers wrote: »
    S3 is going to be about war with Spain, as far as early indications go, which means Constagnan should be kept apart much of the time and we'll see more of d'Artagnan-the-solider and less of d'Artagnan pining over Constance.

    I want more of the boys in S3, the secondary characters have been too prominant this year, especially Constance.

    As for actors leaving, it appears the main cast were on a 3 year contract, so even if a fourth series is a posibility - S3 performs better than expected - one or two of the main cast might be tempted to leave by then, although it's always a risk to leave a secure(ish) job in favour of pastures new.. It was rumoured over Xmas that Tom Burke had expressed a desire to leave after S3 during a carol service but it wasn't confirmed.

    Like Merlin, then..and the whole thing is unnervingly Merlin-like, what with uneven writing and cutting of scenes, especially notable in the Prodigal Father, when we saw nothing of Treville's revelations and Porthos's reaction, and it started after what should have been a big scene after all the build up, and then got swallowed up by the sub plots.
    I don't dislike Constance either, but for example we got quite lengthy scenes between her and her husband and her and Dr Lemay but not (again) Treville and Porthos or other situations where we could have done with more exposition and explanation with the boys themselves, which is why most people watch it, after all. Milady has a part on the ongoing plot but Constance is just the queen's 'best friend and lady in waiting' and used for effect. For example on Friday, it didn't need her and Marguerite to look after the dauphin and she just sat there waiting to be defiant and slung in a cell when she would have been more use on the outside.
  • EspressoEspresso Posts: 18,047
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    Marc Warren must be having a whale of a time playing Rochefort. He's such a thoroughly clever and bonkers baddy.

    I concur that Constance and D'Artagnan have no chemistry whatsoever, while Milady and Athos set the screen on fire when they're together.
  • kat180kat180 Posts: 911
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    Talma wrote: »
    Like Merlin, then..and the whole thing is unnervingly Merlin-like, what with uneven writing and cutting of scenes, especially notable in the Prodigal Father, when we saw nothing of Treville's revelations and Porthos's reaction, and it started after what should have been a big scene after all the build up, and then got swallowed up by the sub plots.
    I don't dislike Constance either, but for example we got quite lengthy scenes between her and her husband and her and Dr Lemay but not (again) Treville and Porthos or other situations where we could have done with more exposition and explanation with the boys themselves, which is why most people watch it, after all. Milady has a part on the ongoing plot but Constance is just the queen's 'best friend and lady in waiting' and used for effect. For example on Friday, it didn't need her and Marguerite to look after the dauphin and she just sat there waiting to be defiant and slung in a cell when she would have been more use on the outside.

    Exactly. I groaned a bit when she said she'd stay because you knew it was a just set up to put her character in danger again.

    There was no logical reason for her to stay. She wasn't with the dauphin - she was stuck in the Queen's chambers. No one considered what the hell she could possibly say/what excuse she could make when the soldiers came for the Queen.
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