I suppose it shows just what Moyes was up against. Perhaps too much blame was laid at his door but people are starting to cop on that the squad itself was a big problem.
At least at this stage under Moyes, we had a win under our belts, sadly we don't even have that to fall back on under LvG.
This will take more than one window to fix, and a lot of money being spent to rectify our problems I fear.
We are at a crossroads, and we need to pick the correct path to go down, if we are to stand any chance of getting back to our former selves.
This has to be the nadir, from here we have to rise again.
The club can't sack him at the end of the season surely.
LvG has already started a chain of events with changing the formation and bringing in players that fit the system. He has to be afforded time to implement that because it's clear that, despite our turgid performances, he's trying to build something here. With Moyes, it wasn't clear exactly what he was trying to do, except become Fergie Mk II.
But I have to say, these players really have no shame. They need to take responsibility for the crap they're putting out there. LvG (and Moyes previously) can't shoulder all the blame.
But isn't that a***e about face? Surely it makes more sense to sign the players then switch the system, not the other way round. United do not currently have the players to play a wing back formation so surely it'd make more sense to stick to a formation that suits the personnel until the right players can be found?
Now I'm not normally one to agree with Steve Claridge, but he's ripping Van Gaal to shreds over the formation and the bizarre decision to sign autographs at the end of the match.
I don't get why Van Gaal thinks that formation will work in Premier League, you don't have the right players to play 3-5-2/3-4-3/whatever that formation was.
Barring replays Man United have a maximum of 42 games left this season, which seems bizarre to say. Obviously things will improve when you get your injured players back, but at the moment you appear directionless.
Moyes is the main reason that the confidence has gone. The players look far too cautious, and they have done for months. Moyes is to blame for that.
The squad is far from perfect, but there are good players there.
Clearly he was out of his depth at such a big club, but it has to be slightly worrying that the squad is still turning in Moyes type performances : you would expect an inspirational new coach to make an immediate impact on performances and results (or a positive impact of some description anyway).
For too long we as a club have been hung up on reproducing the Class of 92.
That was a one off, it won't happen again and hopefully tonight's shambles helps put the final nail in the coffin of the idea that it will happen again.
I wish people will stop claiming the Class of 92 was as a one off. We had a youth team just as strong if not stronger 40 years earlier, that won the youth cup 5 years on the trot. If it takes another 40 years to do it again, so be it. However, it can be replicated, and I'm sure it will.
I'd like to resurrect that word I hoped never to say again, omnishambles.
I'd like to shrug my shoulders and go, oh well it's only the Mickey Mouse trophy, but to lose and effectively capitulate to MK Dons is just plain embarrassing
Di Maria and cracks is nothing to do with tonight. Tonight was 7 u21 out of our usual starting 11 and they were garbage. Our normal team will be fine.
Your good luck comment almost sounds like you've thrown in the towel.
I am throwing in no towel, my comment was purely just wishing him good luck, as he has a huge task on his hands, and I do hope that he is successful with it.
I am in no way giving up on this team or the club as as a whole.
Yes there were a fair few under 21 players, but there were also a few squad players, that we are using as cover, and they didn't cover themselves in glory either.
Our normal team hopefully will be fine, but we have to get the majority of them back fit first of all, that would be a good starting point.
Shaw, Carrick, and I think Herrera are still out for a while, and we don't know about (well I don't anyway) Rojo's work-permit, and when that will be given to him.
Clearly he was out of his depth at such a big club, but it has to be slightly worrying that the squad is still turning in Moyes type performances : you would expect an inspirational new coach to make an immediate impact on performances and results (or a positive impact of some description anyway).
I guess that it depends on the depth of the damage inflicted by Moyes.
Van Gaal is, rightly or wrongly, trying to impose a new system. That, combined with fragile confidence, is going to lead to struggles, in my opinion.
This is going to take time, as Van Gaal himself has alluded to.
Whilst I have doubts about 3-5-2, and I don't think it'll be the long term plan, tonight wasn't about the formation. It was just down to very poor execution of footballing basics - passing the ball, tracking runners and suchlike.
I'd happily have a few of that side never pull on a United shirt again, and I don't just mean the kids. If anyone dares try to claim that Anderson deserves another go and will eventually come good, they need their head examining. And what has happened to Hernandez?
I wish people will stop claiming the Class of 92 was as a one off. We had a youth team just as strong if not stronger 40 years earlier, that won the youth cup 5 years on the trot. If it takes another 40 years to do it again, so be it. However, it can be replicated, and I'm sure it will.
I guess that it depends on the depth of the damage inflicted by Moyes.
Van Gaal is, rightly or wrongly, trying to impose a new system. That, combined with fragile confidence, is going to lead to struggles, in my opinion.
This is going to take time, as Van Gaal himself has alluded to.
Van Gaal has not "alluded" to the fact it will take time. He clearly and out right made it very very clear it's going to take time an they will need a miracle to get near the top of the premier league this year.
What LVG said when he came here: Results breed confidence in the formation (okay paraphrasing).
I don't think we will stick with 3-5-2 for much longer.
He does seem very keen on this formation, it could be done if we had the players to play it, but we at this stage don't.
For a start, we don't have enough fit, and available centre-back's to play three of them last the back, so that I think needs looking at first and foremost.
But isn't that a***e about face? Surely it makes more sense to sign the players then switch the system, not the other way round. United do not currently have the players to play a wing back formation so surely it'd make more sense to stick to a formation that suits the personnel until the right players can be found?
I agree. The problem is LvG is trying to fit square pegs in round holes. We clearly have players who are not comfortable at all with 3-5-2 and yet LvG continues to persist with it when we don't have the players yet. That is unless, LvG is trying to prove a point somehow.
Van Gaal totally underestimated the strength of the football league here in England. MK Dons are a strong league one side. You don't just put out a load of kids against them.
Still, you lot can't complain. You're not going to get relegated from the premier league so stop crying
He does seem very keen on this formation, it could be done if we had the players to play it, but we at this stage don't.
For a start, we don't have enough fit, and available centre-back's to play three of them last the back, so that I think needs looking at first and foremost.
If we had a top notch midfield then there would be less reliance on the back three. Sort out the players in front of them and they won't be so exposed. I'm not saying that the defence doesn't need shoring up but if they had some top notch protection ahead and played on the front foot then we wouldn't be in this pickle. In my opinion.
FA Cup and a fight for fourth. We've become Arsenal.
I know tonight has no bearing on the league, particularly as a different set of players will mostly be used in that competition, but at least Arsenal have managed that position each season. Don't see it with us this campaign, 6th at best for me.
Whilst I have doubts about 3-5-2, and I don't think it'll be the long term plan, tonight wasn't about the formation. It was just down to very poor execution of footballing basics - passing the ball, tracking runners and suchlike.
I'd happily have a few of that side never pull on a United shirt again, and I don't just mean the kids. If anyone dares try to claim that Anderson deserves another go and will eventually come good, they need their head examining. And what has happened to Hernandez?
I agree with you here, the more senior players in the side, seriously need to have a look at themselves tonight, yes it is easy to say that the younger players didn't take their chance, but where was the leadership tonight?
Which of the senior players were there helping or trying to help the younger players making the step up for the first time, when things were going against us?
No-one as far as I could see, stood out, and took this game by the scruff of the neck, and said enough is enough.
Too many hid within themselves.
Anderson, Kagawa (even if he didn't last too long), Welbeck, Evans (yes I recognise he was not fully fit), and Hernandez, should all have done far more then they did tonight.
Comments
At least at this stage under Moyes, we had a win under our belts, sadly we don't even have that to fall back on under LvG.
This will take more than one window to fix, and a lot of money being spent to rectify our problems I fear.
We are at a crossroads, and we need to pick the correct path to go down, if we are to stand any chance of getting back to our former selves.
This has to be the nadir, from here we have to rise again.
I've been a United fan for almost 40 years. Always read the thread and occasionally post, try to contribute. But it's hard work.
Go to as many games as I can, I only live 5 miles from OT, United in the blood, yet feel that this place and "regular members" don't want to know.
But isn't that a***e about face? Surely it makes more sense to sign the players then switch the system, not the other way round. United do not currently have the players to play a wing back formation so surely it'd make more sense to stick to a formation that suits the personnel until the right players can be found?
I don't get why Van Gaal thinks that formation will work in Premier League, you don't have the right players to play 3-5-2/3-4-3/whatever that formation was.
Barring replays Man United have a maximum of 42 games left this season, which seems bizarre to say. Obviously things will improve when you get your injured players back, but at the moment you appear directionless.
Clearly he was out of his depth at such a big club, but it has to be slightly worrying that the squad is still turning in Moyes type performances : you would expect an inspirational new coach to make an immediate impact on performances and results (or a positive impact of some description anyway).
I wish people will stop claiming the Class of 92 was as a one off. We had a youth team just as strong if not stronger 40 years earlier, that won the youth cup 5 years on the trot. If it takes another 40 years to do it again, so be it. However, it can be replicated, and I'm sure it will.
I'd like to shrug my shoulders and go, oh well it's only the Mickey Mouse trophy, but to lose and effectively capitulate to MK Dons is just plain embarrassing
I don't think we will stick with 3-5-2 for much longer.
Correct. But even an aging Ferdinand, Evra and Vidic are far superior to Keane, Vermijl and James.
I wondered how long it would take someone to blame Moyes for tonights result.
I am throwing in no towel, my comment was purely just wishing him good luck, as he has a huge task on his hands, and I do hope that he is successful with it.
I am in no way giving up on this team or the club as as a whole.
Yes there were a fair few under 21 players, but there were also a few squad players, that we are using as cover, and they didn't cover themselves in glory either.
Our normal team hopefully will be fine, but we have to get the majority of them back fit first of all, that would be a good starting point.
Shaw, Carrick, and I think Herrera are still out for a while, and we don't know about (well I don't anyway) Rojo's work-permit, and when that will be given to him.
I guess that it depends on the depth of the damage inflicted by Moyes.
Van Gaal is, rightly or wrongly, trying to impose a new system. That, combined with fragile confidence, is going to lead to struggles, in my opinion.
This is going to take time, as Van Gaal himself has alluded to.
I wasn't talking about tonight's result.
I'd happily have a few of that side never pull on a United shirt again, and I don't just mean the kids. If anyone dares try to claim that Anderson deserves another go and will eventually come good, they need their head examining. And what has happened to Hernandez?
When?
Van Gaal has not "alluded" to the fact it will take time. He clearly and out right made it very very clear it's going to take time an they will need a miracle to get near the top of the premier league this year.
That crossed my mind...
Let's show them how weak we are.
Doubt it, though.
He does seem very keen on this formation, it could be done if we had the players to play it, but we at this stage don't.
For a start, we don't have enough fit, and available centre-back's to play three of them last the back, so that I think needs looking at first and foremost.
I agree. The problem is LvG is trying to fit square pegs in round holes. We clearly have players who are not comfortable at all with 3-5-2 and yet LvG continues to persist with it when we don't have the players yet. That is unless, LvG is trying to prove a point somehow.
Still, you lot can't complain. You're not going to get relegated from the premier league so stop crying
If we had a top notch midfield then there would be less reliance on the back three. Sort out the players in front of them and they won't be so exposed. I'm not saying that the defence doesn't need shoring up but if they had some top notch protection ahead and played on the front foot then we wouldn't be in this pickle. In my opinion.
It shows we matter, despite now being officially crap.
Look at all the opposition fans deciding to impart their "wisdom" in here, same principle.
I know tonight has no bearing on the league, particularly as a different set of players will mostly be used in that competition, but at least Arsenal have managed that position each season. Don't see it with us this campaign, 6th at best for me.
I agree with you here, the more senior players in the side, seriously need to have a look at themselves tonight, yes it is easy to say that the younger players didn't take their chance, but where was the leadership tonight?
Which of the senior players were there helping or trying to help the younger players making the step up for the first time, when things were going against us?
No-one as far as I could see, stood out, and took this game by the scruff of the neck, and said enough is enough.
Too many hid within themselves.
Anderson, Kagawa (even if he didn't last too long), Welbeck, Evans (yes I recognise he was not fully fit), and Hernandez, should all have done far more then they did tonight.