Seeing as this policy has been in place since 2007, it seems unlikely that a bit of angst whipped up by the mail will have much of an impact.
I think some will apply angst retroactively. It seems to be the way of things. The question is, would a boycott of Subway from those who feel this is pandering (where I don't see how it is given it's a private company choosing a policy to increase it's income), cost the company more than the money gained from those who will now go to their shops because of this news (Muslim and non-Muslim - I believe some non-Muslims do go for halal meat for various reasons)?
It's pretty simple though. All stores are being clearly described. All Halal meat used by the company is pre-stunned. People should have the choice of which type of meat they want to eat based on their views and they are being provided that opportunity. I don't think boycotting the whole company makes much sense as there are stores without halal meat so it's not a blanket change.
The weird thing about this story is the responses it garners.
You get some going into a rant about animal cruelty. The issue with that is Subway are sourcing their meat from pre-stunned animals. Just like we want all our meat to be prepared. So the animal cruelty aspect is not really valid here.
You get some going into a rant about this being more pandering towards Muslims and that the company as a whole have done wrong. The problem is, this doesn't apply to all stores - nowhere near it. There are plenty of stores without Halal meat - so where's the justification to boycott them? It's not a 100% store change.
You get some complaining about the labelling of Halal meat. Well that doesn't seem to apply here because Subway have said their stores will have signs clearly stating if the meat inside is Halal or not (and I think this is the case at Subway stores already - I've seen the signs on stores myself).
You get some going into a rant about Islam overall - I don't see how that applies here. I don't see the relevance (on DS we have a long and storied history of generic Islam rants on specific stories like this). Subway got feedback on halal meat and decided to apply a policy in order to generate more sales. If someone can prove the money Subway makes off these sales is being used for terrorism, or that buying halal meat makes you a bad person, I'd really like to see that evidence.
It seems any story on a national level involving Islam in any sort of situation (positive, neutral, negative) will garner a strong negative response from certain quarters. This has increased over the years. While there is an argument for that being due to the number of terrorist incidents, that doesn't tally up to the behaviour and actions in normal ordinary everyday life and the lives of normal people in this country. You know you're onto a hiding to nothing when a story where labelling of Halal meat is being clearly made garners a negative response.
Because they're killing the animal in that manner for food not for leather and if they were doing it for the leather then i would choose not to wear it.
If someone accidentally runs over a racoon and makes a hat out of it i think thats fine but i dont think people should run over racoons to make hats.
But you don't seem to understand that Halal guidelines do extend beyond mere consumption of meat.
What do you think happens with the bits of a Halal cow, sheep, etc that are usually put towards other things like coats, belts, shoes, sofas, etc.? Do you honestly think they're just thrown away?
There is a VERY high chance that you've sat on or worn a Halal product. You've probably eaten Halal meat than you care to realise, too.
It's almost pointless trying to avoid or protest Halal products because you'll end up basically cutting your nose off to spite your face.
I agree that not labelling halal meat as such is the bigger problem because people don't know what they're getting, for example over Easter a lot of the big supermarkets had offers on New Zealand legs of lamb, how many people know that all New Zealand lamb is halal? New Zealand is not a Muslim country so I don't think most people know that's what they're buying (the reason for this is because the Middle East is a big market for New Zealand lamb).
There should be clear labelling of all halal meat, this would help people who want to buy it and people who don't.
But you don't seem to understand that Halal guidelines do extend beyond mere consumption of meat.
What do you think happens with the bits of a Halal cow, sheep, etc that are usually put towards other things like coats, belts, shoes, sofas, etc.? Do you honestly think they're just thrown away?
There is a VERY high chance that you've sat on or worn a Halal product. You've probably eaten Halal meat than you care to realise, too.
It's almost pointless trying to avoid or protest Halal products because you'll end up basically cutting your nose off to spite your face.
The weird thing about this story is the responses it garners.
You get some going into a rant about animal cruelty. The issue with that is Subway are sourcing their meat from pre-stunned animals. Just like we want all our meat to be prepared. So the animal cruelty aspect is not really valid here.
You get some going into a rant about this being more pandering towards Muslims and that the company as a whole have done wrong. The problem is, this doesn't apply to all stores - nowhere near it. There are plenty of stores without Halal meat - so where's the justification to boycott them? It's not a 100% store change.
You get some complaining about the labelling of Halal meat. Well that doesn't seem to apply here because Subway have said their stores will have signs clearly stating if the meat inside is Halal or not (and I think this is the case at Subway stores already - I've seen the signs on stores myself).
You get some going into a rant about Islam overall - I don't see how that applies here. I don't see the relevance (on DS we have a long and storied history of generic Islam rants on specific stories like this). Subway got feedback on halal meat and decided to apply a policy in order to generate more sales. If someone can prove the money Subway makes off these sales is being used for terrorism, or that buying halal meat makes you a bad person, I'd really like to see that evidence.
It seems any story on a national level involving Islam in any sort of situation (positive, neutral, negative) will garner a strong negative response from certain quarters. This has increased over the years. While there is an argument for that being due to the number of terrorist incidents, that doesn't tally up to the behaviour and actions in normal ordinary everyday life and the lives of normal people in this country. You know you're onto a hiding to nothing when a story where labelling of Halal meat is being clearly made garners a negative response.
I ate hilal haribos once (the cola bottle ones) they tasted the same as normal haribos.
Does this rule change mean I can't buy a bacon sandwich from Subway any more? Or that it will be a hilal bacon sandwich because I don't think that would bother me.
I ate hilal haribos once (the cola bottle ones) they tasted the same as normal haribos.
Does this rule change mean I can't buy a bacon sandwich from Subway any more? Or that it will be a hilal bacon sandwich because I don't think that would bother me.
It's roughly 200 stores out of nearly 2,000 going Halal. I'm sure you'll have no problem finding a bacon sub.
I don't know any Muslims who would waste their money on that poor quality food. If Subway doesn't sell bacon anymore then the people who want to eat bacon will no longer go to the place so they will lose trade.
It's factual that some areas of the UK have a majority of Muslim people, not a minority so clearly the area will cater for their needs first. It's no big deal.
Seen one person, saying this is the last straw for him, but judging by his other posts it seems he read this story with a negative opinion on it already.
Well yes, but "favouring" one culture over the other? To ban pork is the biggest load of nonsense ever. If they hate it so much why not find alternative places to eat? I'm sure there is no shortage.
Your posts just scream prejudice.
You'd be perfectly happy if every subway store was non halal, but if just 10% of them are halal they are favoring Muslims. Just how biased can you get?
I suppose boycotting and complaining to get what you want is perfectly acceptable, but a Muslim has no such privilege right?
Looks like it's one rule for one and another for other people eh?
The irony is all these online campaigns now calling for people to boycott and bombard subway with complaints are guilty of the very thing they've imagined Muslims have done and are criticising them for.
Why should the praying affect your enjoyment of the food?
Because you don't want to eat food killed under religious practices. I don't know why people have such a problem understanding this concept, any more than understanding why a pescetarian won't eat meat, other than fish.
I agree that not labelling halal meat as such is the bigger problem because people don't know what they're getting, for example over Easter a lot of the big supermarkets had offers on New Zealand legs of lamb, how many people know that all New Zealand lamb is halal? New Zealand is not a Muslim country so I don't think most people know that's what they're buying (the reason for this is because the Middle East is a big market for New Zealand lamb).
There should be clear labelling of all halal meat, this would help people who want to buy it and people who don't.
It's like banging your head against a brick wall trying to get the above point across in this thread.
You get some complaining about the labelling of Halal meat. Well that doesn't seem to apply here because Subway have said their stores will have signs clearly stating if the meat inside is Halal or not (and I think this is the case at Subway stores already - I've seen the signs on stores myself).
Subway stores which are non Halal do not label their stores as selling only non halal meat. Chances are they are selling a mixture of both, but they don't tell us (the majority) that. I wonder why. And it's not just Subway. It's more than likely every meat outlet across the land, as there appears to be no regulation on this.
We all take for granted that most foods sold in a high street store give you a breakdown of calories, fat, carbohydrates, sugar, salt, fibre etc., but not whether non Halal meat, does actually contain a content of Halal meat. This should be made law and all retail outlets should be obliged to display the above information, including takeaways and restaurants.
Because you don't want to eat food killed under religious practices. I don't know why people have such a problem understanding this concept, any more than understanding why a pescetarian won't eat meat, other than fish..
It's hardly the same thing. If the animal is stunned prior to slaughter and the only difference to non-halal is that someone prays over it, why should that make any difference to your enjoyment of the product?
Subway stores which are non Halal do not label their stores as selling only non halal meat. Chances are they are selling a mixture of both, but they don't tell us (the majority) that. I wonder why. And it's not just Subway. It's more than likely every meat outlet across the land, as there appears to be no regulation on this.
We all take for granted that most foods sold in a high street store give you a breakdown of calories, fat, carbohydrates, sugar, salt, fibre etc., but not whether non Halal meat, does actually contain a content of Halal meat. This should be made law and all retail outlets should be obliged to display the above information, including takeaways and restaurants.
They've stated all meat (when Halal) will be stunned. They haven't stated whether all non-Halal meat is stunned. It works both ways.
If you have a problem with Halal meat you have to decide what is it about it that is the issue.
If you're concerned about animal welfare then the issue doesn't apply in over 90% of situations in the UK (given the most recent statistics we have say 90% is pre-stunned). Subways have clearly stated the Halal meat they use is pre-stunned.
If you have an issue with the religious aspect then there clearly is a need to have the right to choose. That's what Subway is giving you. Any underlying issues with mistrust about non-Halal meat maybe being Halal is a more general issue than what Subway is doing. I don't believe all or most meat is Halal. It makes no sense to me that this is the case because no Muslim would knowingly eat unlabelled meat.
If a store sold both Halal and non-Halal meat it would be interesting to find out who would boycott such a place and for why, given they have the choice to eat either.
This is down to personal choice but the opinions expressed on here tend to stray from reasoned personal choice into unverified (and unaccountable) facts about Subway (and other stores) that is actually damaging the veracity of all that is being discussed. And when such views are lauded, the propagation of untruths goes further and further. This is happening on this thread, in my opinion.
I want labels on meat to state what music was playing in the abattoir when the animal was slaughtered. I refuse to eat anything that's been subjected to Nickelback or the Jonas Brothers.
Because you don't want to eat food killed under religious practices. I don't know why people have such a problem understanding this concept, any more than understanding why a pescetarian won't eat meat, other than fish.
.
I understand why pescatarian's won't eat meat though - because they object to the cruelty of raising and killing mammals. Fish they figure don't feel suffering in the same way. I can also understand why someone would not eat halal unless the animal was pre-stunned. What I can't understand is why the prayer matters.
They've stated all meat (when Halal) will be stunned. They haven't stated whether all non-Halal meat is stunned. It works both ways.
If you have a problem with Halal meat you have to decide what is it about it that is the issue.
If you're concerned about animal welfare then the issue doesn't apply in over 90% of situations in the UK (given the most recent statistics we have say 90% is pre-stunned). Subways have clearly stated the Halal meat they use is pre-stunned.
If you have an issue with the religious aspect then there clearly is a need to have the right to choose. That's what Subway is giving you. Any underlying issues with mistrust about non-Halal meat maybe being Halal is a more general issue than what Subway is doing. I don't believe all or most meat is Halal. It makes no sense to me that this is the case because no Muslim would knowingly eat unlabelled meat.
If a store sold both Halal and non-Halal meat it would be interesting to find out who would boycott such a place and for why, given they have the choice to eat either.
This is down to personal choice but the opinions expressed on here tend to stray from reasoned personal choice into unverified (and unaccountable) facts about Subway (and other stores) that is actually damaging the veracity of all that is being discussed. And when such views are lauded, the propagation of untruths goes further and further. This is happening on this thread, in my opinion.
I object to eating Halal meat without being told, sold as non Halal meat, because of non religious reasons, in the same way that many people objected to eating horse meat without knowing about it. As for how much Halal meat finds its way into the general food chain, we don't know, as they don't tell you how much and what % it is. And in both cases that is the problem. If meat is labelled as 100% Halal, then it is only fair that other non Halal meat is also labelled as 100% non Halal, so we know it isn't a mixture of non Halal and/or Halal. I don't know how many times I have to say the same thing in a different way.
Fish they figure don't feel suffering in the same way.
I can hardly think that being crushed in a net and suffocating to death, which is how most fish end their lives is a very pleasant way to go. Or being hauled into a boat with a hook stuck in your mouth and again suffocating to death.
I want labels on meat to state what music was playing in the abattoir when the animal was slaughtered. I refuse to eat anything that's been subjected to Nickelback or the Jonas Brothers.
If it was a reasonable request, then you would or may have a good point.
Comments
I think some will apply angst retroactively. It seems to be the way of things. The question is, would a boycott of Subway from those who feel this is pandering (where I don't see how it is given it's a private company choosing a policy to increase it's income), cost the company more than the money gained from those who will now go to their shops because of this news (Muslim and non-Muslim - I believe some non-Muslims do go for halal meat for various reasons)?
It's pretty simple though. All stores are being clearly described. All Halal meat used by the company is pre-stunned. People should have the choice of which type of meat they want to eat based on their views and they are being provided that opportunity. I don't think boycotting the whole company makes much sense as there are stores without halal meat so it's not a blanket change.
You get some going into a rant about animal cruelty. The issue with that is Subway are sourcing their meat from pre-stunned animals. Just like we want all our meat to be prepared. So the animal cruelty aspect is not really valid here.
You get some going into a rant about this being more pandering towards Muslims and that the company as a whole have done wrong. The problem is, this doesn't apply to all stores - nowhere near it. There are plenty of stores without Halal meat - so where's the justification to boycott them? It's not a 100% store change.
You get some complaining about the labelling of Halal meat. Well that doesn't seem to apply here because Subway have said their stores will have signs clearly stating if the meat inside is Halal or not (and I think this is the case at Subway stores already - I've seen the signs on stores myself).
You get some going into a rant about Islam overall - I don't see how that applies here. I don't see the relevance (on DS we have a long and storied history of generic Islam rants on specific stories like this). Subway got feedback on halal meat and decided to apply a policy in order to generate more sales. If someone can prove the money Subway makes off these sales is being used for terrorism, or that buying halal meat makes you a bad person, I'd really like to see that evidence.
It seems any story on a national level involving Islam in any sort of situation (positive, neutral, negative) will garner a strong negative response from certain quarters. This has increased over the years. While there is an argument for that being due to the number of terrorist incidents, that doesn't tally up to the behaviour and actions in normal ordinary everyday life and the lives of normal people in this country. You know you're onto a hiding to nothing when a story where labelling of Halal meat is being clearly made garners a negative response.
But you don't seem to understand that Halal guidelines do extend beyond mere consumption of meat.
What do you think happens with the bits of a Halal cow, sheep, etc that are usually put towards other things like coats, belts, shoes, sofas, etc.? Do you honestly think they're just thrown away?
There is a VERY high chance that you've sat on or worn a Halal product. You've probably eaten Halal meat than you care to realise, too.
It's almost pointless trying to avoid or protest Halal products because you'll end up basically cutting your nose off to spite your face.
There should be clear labelling of all halal meat, this would help people who want to buy it and people who don't.
This is like that time I got banned from Angus Steak Houses for being a vegetarian.
Yeah... i'm not sure you read the bit you quoted.
Great post.
Does this rule change mean I can't buy a bacon sandwich from Subway any more? Or that it will be a hilal bacon sandwich because I don't think that would bother me.
It's roughly 200 stores out of nearly 2,000 going Halal. I'm sure you'll have no problem finding a bacon sub.
It's factual that some areas of the UK have a majority of Muslim people, not a minority so clearly the area will cater for their needs first. It's no big deal.
I don't know why I'm not allowed to disagree with your opinion without being accused of not allowing you one. Sheesh!
Your posts just scream prejudice.
You'd be perfectly happy if every subway store was non halal, but if just 10% of them are halal they are favoring Muslims. Just how biased can you get?
I suppose boycotting and complaining to get what you want is perfectly acceptable, but a Muslim has no such privilege right?
Looks like it's one rule for one and another for other people eh?
Front page... bacon sub. The world still turns.
Because you don't want to eat food killed under religious practices. I don't know why people have such a problem understanding this concept, any more than understanding why a pescetarian won't eat meat, other than fish.
It's like banging your head against a brick wall trying to get the above point across in this thread.
See quote below.
Subway stores which are non Halal do not label their stores as selling only non halal meat. Chances are they are selling a mixture of both, but they don't tell us (the majority) that. I wonder why. And it's not just Subway. It's more than likely every meat outlet across the land, as there appears to be no regulation on this.
We all take for granted that most foods sold in a high street store give you a breakdown of calories, fat, carbohydrates, sugar, salt, fibre etc., but not whether non Halal meat, does actually contain a content of Halal meat. This should be made law and all retail outlets should be obliged to display the above information, including takeaways and restaurants.
They've stated all meat (when Halal) will be stunned. They haven't stated whether all non-Halal meat is stunned. It works both ways.
If you have a problem with Halal meat you have to decide what is it about it that is the issue.
If you're concerned about animal welfare then the issue doesn't apply in over 90% of situations in the UK (given the most recent statistics we have say 90% is pre-stunned). Subways have clearly stated the Halal meat they use is pre-stunned.
If you have an issue with the religious aspect then there clearly is a need to have the right to choose. That's what Subway is giving you. Any underlying issues with mistrust about non-Halal meat maybe being Halal is a more general issue than what Subway is doing. I don't believe all or most meat is Halal. It makes no sense to me that this is the case because no Muslim would knowingly eat unlabelled meat.
If a store sold both Halal and non-Halal meat it would be interesting to find out who would boycott such a place and for why, given they have the choice to eat either.
This is down to personal choice but the opinions expressed on here tend to stray from reasoned personal choice into unverified (and unaccountable) facts about Subway (and other stores) that is actually damaging the veracity of all that is being discussed. And when such views are lauded, the propagation of untruths goes further and further. This is happening on this thread, in my opinion.
I understand why pescatarian's won't eat meat though - because they object to the cruelty of raising and killing mammals. Fish they figure don't feel suffering in the same way. I can also understand why someone would not eat halal unless the animal was pre-stunned. What I can't understand is why the prayer matters.
I object to eating Halal meat without being told, sold as non Halal meat, because of non religious reasons, in the same way that many people objected to eating horse meat without knowing about it. As for how much Halal meat finds its way into the general food chain, we don't know, as they don't tell you how much and what % it is. And in both cases that is the problem. If meat is labelled as 100% Halal, then it is only fair that other non Halal meat is also labelled as 100% non Halal, so we know it isn't a mixture of non Halal and/or Halal. I don't know how many times I have to say the same thing in a different way.
I can hardly think that being crushed in a net and suffocating to death, which is how most fish end their lives is a very pleasant way to go. Or being hauled into a boat with a hook stuck in your mouth and again suffocating to death.
If it was a reasonable request, then you would or may have a good point.