Well I will let you fly on planes with a depressive person who could have a episode when flying . Il stick to normal sane people to fly me across the world .
Fortunately people with your attitude weren't allowed to decide who could be Prime Minister or President otherwise two of the most influential political figures in modern times Churchill & Lincoln may not have taken office and the history of both counties could have been considerably different . If memory serves I also think Buzz Aldrin managed to travel to the moon and suffered from depression .
Clearly this individual should never have been anywhere near a plane at this time , my concern is that a blanket ban on anyone suffering from a depressive episode ever performing the role could lead to people internalising their problems and not seeking help for fear of losing their jobs and I'm not sure potentially depriving people in this situation of medical treatement is the best plan for anybody.
So a pilot's mother dies he gets depressed for a few weeks before coming to terms with it and then under your rules you ban him for life?
You seem to be making up scenarios that no one is suggesting. if someone has a long term illness that is likely to affect their job, then they shouldn't be doing it.
I agree. They should carry out such medical checks themselves, and I always thought they did.
I have to say I thought they did but how would a real-time situation like this work ? I accept this individual may have been receiving care for sometime but Even if the airline had access potentially they wouldnt find out until after the pilot was in the air surely ?
Can we have a clue as to how many clinical depressions you have had and how you treated them?
Where did I stay I had treated anybody ?
My reasoning is sound , people who have long term mental health problems should not be allowed to pilot planes as the risks are simply to great if they decide to kill everybody on board .
I have to say I thought they did but how would a real-time situation like this work ? I accept this individual may have been receiving care for sometime but Even if the airline had access potentially they wouldnt find out until after the pilot was in the air surely ?
I would hope that a Dr issuing a sick note would have means of contacting the airline to say that such a note had been issued.
No a sane depressed person would not hide his problems, deny calls from doctors to be treated and carefully plan to kill himself and take 149 innocent people with him,
That is by any definition not a sane act.
Or, if he was sane, it then makes that act wilful mass murder.
I am not suggesting at all that to be depressed = insanity. Or that if treated effectively he should ever be denied the ability to fly again.
But that is not what looks to have happened here. It went beyond depression into purposeful acts leading to mass murder.
That is surely very different and is not what 99% of depressed people would do.
Have you read the post I was responding to ? The poster declared all depressed people were not " sane like me "
No . not all depressed people are not sane ., Some may be of course
So a pilot's mother dies he gets depressed for a few weeks before coming to terms with it and then under your rules you ban him for life?
Where has the ban him for life thing come?
If a pilot gets Ebola do you let him fly? Nope.
If he gets treatment do you let him fly? Not until you know he is 100% fit and well and able to control the aircraft.
Exactly the same here.
But the problem is this guy knew he was ill, had been told to get proper treatment and had wilfully hid the fact from his employers.
That would be like the pilot with Ebola flying his plane without any thought for his colleagues or passengers.
THIS act of wilfulness is in my view what changes this from a depression that we could and should empathise with into a series of acts by the pilot that in some ways (deliberate or not) led to multiple innocent deaths.
I would hope that a Dr issuing a sick note would have means of contacting the airline to say that such a note had been issued.
Again I'd imagine that would take legislative changes wouldnt it ? Even if it wouldn't you're then shifting more pressure on the GP to report the matter to a private company , I'm not saying it doesn't make sense it's just another layer of work and bureaucracy and I'm absolutely certain the GP's would want to avoid that kind of additional pressure on theIr own shoulders .
As I say it's quite a complex debate I suppose when at first it seems so simple , by that I mean it seemed simple to me as well
You seem to be making up scenarios that no one is suggesting. if someone has a long term illness that is likely to affect their job, then they shouldn't be doing it.
The airline didn't know he had a "long term illness" as you put it, they knew he'd had 6 months off for depression/burnout 6 years ago.
Typical knee jerk reactions coming from all angles.
But flying a plane is different from driving a bus or most other jobs. A plane cash almost always leaves passengers with absolutely 0 chance of survival. A crazy bus driver would have to try EXTREMELY hard to kill 150 people, all a pilot has to do is press a button.
I'm sorry if this insults some people, but a person with a history of mental illness should not be allowed to be a pilot. There should be an absolute blanket ban.
But flying a plane is different from driving a bus or most other jobs. A plane cash almost always leaves passengers with absolutely 0 chance of survival. A crazy bus driver would have to try EXTREMELY hard to kill 150 people, all a pilot has to do is press a button.
I'm sorry if this insults some people, but a person with a history of mental illness should not be allowed to be a pilot. There should be an absolute blanket ban.
The point I made earlier though is that surely that presents a danger of pilots not reporting a condition or seeking treatment which could leave us in a potentially worse position
The rule is simple. if a pilot has suffered from prolonged manic depression, and a medical professional confirms this, the pilot must be banned.
If he only suffers from mild depression, he should be allowed to return to flying, as long as a medial professional confirms this.
I don't understand why this is so much of an issue, many jobs already have this policy.
He or she I should say.
One of the problems is the generic term depression is being used in this instance , but no one actually knows what he had been diagnosed with . It may have been any number of conditions, or none as he may have hidden his symptoms well.
I think that's probably reasonable but would it necessarliy have prevented this incident , which is obviously whats caused the discussion ?
I would call six moths a prolonged period, and if he was off for six months with manic depression, the chance cannot be taken. Strict but necessary, when you are dealing with peoples lives.
If this rule was in place, he suffered manic depression, and was banned, it would of prevented this accident, he had been to the doctors and was signed off, but we don't know what for. The fact that the airline was not aware of this, for what ever reason, is madness in its self.
The point I made earlier though is that surely that presents a danger of pilots not reporting a condition or seeking treatment which could leave us in a potentially worse position
The airline should be allowed to access their medical records. If a person suffers from a metal illness and doesn't get treatment, the symptoms of the illness often become evident.
Plus, all pilots should undergo regular medical/psychological check-ups. I don't know for a fact, but I'm guessing this is already the case.
But flying a plane is different from driving a bus or most other jobs. A plane cash almost always leaves passengers with absolutely 0 chance of survival. A crazy bus driver would have to try EXTREMELY hard to kill 150 people, all a pilot has to do is press a button.
I'm sorry if this insults some people, but a person with a history of mental illness should not be allowed to be a pilot. There should be an absolute blanket ban.
A bus driver could still kill a load of people very easily if he wanted to, driving it off a bridge etc. is this OK because it's not an aircraft though?
I guess we have to just wait until a bus driver does this, before we then say anyone who has been depressed can't do that job either..... and so on.
But mild depression? your talking about a lot of people there.
What is "mild depression"? If you go to a doctor and get prescribed medication and get signed off work with depression, is that mild or is that serious?
What is "mild depression"? If you go to a doctor and get prescribed medication and get signed off work with depression, is that mild or is that serious?
You would have to ask a medical professional that question. I do not know.
The point I made earlier though is that surely that presents a danger of pilots not reporting a condition or seeking treatment which could leave us in a potentially worse position
Pilots in the USA will never report these type of things because, and some of the daily mail posters in here will love, you instantly lose your job/never get hired again.
Comments
Fortunately people with your attitude weren't allowed to decide who could be Prime Minister or President otherwise two of the most influential political figures in modern times Churchill & Lincoln may not have taken office and the history of both counties could have been considerably different . If memory serves I also think Buzz Aldrin managed to travel to the moon and suffered from depression .
Clearly this individual should never have been anywhere near a plane at this time , my concern is that a blanket ban on anyone suffering from a depressive episode ever performing the role could lead to people internalising their problems and not seeking help for fear of losing their jobs and I'm not sure potentially depriving people in this situation of medical treatement is the best plan for anybody.
It's certainly a difficult debate .
I have no idea how they could possibly have come to that conclusion with people like you around them.
You seem to be making up scenarios that no one is suggesting. if someone has a long term illness that is likely to affect their job, then they shouldn't be doing it.
I am well aware of the tragedy , more than you know perhaps
I have to say I thought they did but how would a real-time situation like this work ? I accept this individual may have been receiving care for sometime but Even if the airline had access potentially they wouldnt find out until after the pilot was in the air surely ?
Where did I stay I had treated anybody ?
My reasoning is sound , people who have long term mental health problems should not be allowed to pilot planes as the risks are simply to great if they decide to kill everybody on board .
I would hope that a Dr issuing a sick note would have means of contacting the airline to say that such a note had been issued.
No . not all depressed people are not sane ., Some may be of course
Where has the ban him for life thing come?
If a pilot gets Ebola do you let him fly? Nope.
If he gets treatment do you let him fly? Not until you know he is 100% fit and well and able to control the aircraft.
Exactly the same here.
But the problem is this guy knew he was ill, had been told to get proper treatment and had wilfully hid the fact from his employers.
That would be like the pilot with Ebola flying his plane without any thought for his colleagues or passengers.
THIS act of wilfulness is in my view what changes this from a depression that we could and should empathise with into a series of acts by the pilot that in some ways (deliberate or not) led to multiple innocent deaths.
Again I'd imagine that would take legislative changes wouldnt it ? Even if it wouldn't you're then shifting more pressure on the GP to report the matter to a private company , I'm not saying it doesn't make sense it's just another layer of work and bureaucracy and I'm absolutely certain the GP's would want to avoid that kind of additional pressure on theIr own shoulders .
As I say it's quite a complex debate I suppose when at first it seems so simple , by that I mean it seemed simple to me as well
The airline didn't know he had a "long term illness" as you put it, they knew he'd had 6 months off for depression/burnout 6 years ago.
Typical knee jerk reactions coming from all angles.
If he only suffers from mild depression, he should be allowed to return to flying, as long as a medial professional confirms this.
I don't understand why this is so much of an issue, many jobs already have this policy.
He or she I should say.
I'm sorry if this insults some people, but a person with a history of mental illness should not be allowed to be a pilot. There should be an absolute blanket ban.
I think that's probably reasonable but would it necessarliy have prevented this incident , which is obviously whats caused the discussion ?
The point I made earlier though is that surely that presents a danger of pilots not reporting a condition or seeking treatment which could leave us in a potentially worse position
One of the problems is the generic term depression is being used in this instance , but no one actually knows what he had been diagnosed with . It may have been any number of conditions, or none as he may have hidden his symptoms well.
I disagree. If a person actually required medical treatment for diagnosed depression, he should not be allowed to fly a passenger plane.
I would call six moths a prolonged period, and if he was off for six months with manic depression, the chance cannot be taken. Strict but necessary, when you are dealing with peoples lives.
If this rule was in place, he suffered manic depression, and was banned, it would of prevented this accident, he had been to the doctors and was signed off, but we don't know what for. The fact that the airline was not aware of this, for what ever reason, is madness in its self.
But mild depression? your talking about a lot of people there.
The airline should be allowed to access their medical records. If a person suffers from a metal illness and doesn't get treatment, the symptoms of the illness often become evident.
Plus, all pilots should undergo regular medical/psychological check-ups. I don't know for a fact, but I'm guessing this is already the case.
A bus driver could still kill a load of people very easily if he wanted to, driving it off a bridge etc. is this OK because it's not an aircraft though?
I guess we have to just wait until a bus driver does this, before we then say anyone who has been depressed can't do that job either..... and so on.
What is "mild depression"? If you go to a doctor and get prescribed medication and get signed off work with depression, is that mild or is that serious?
You would have to ask a medical professional that question. I do not know.
where if this situation arises that someone from outside could override the cockpit controls
and put the plane in a mode where it would level off and circle then again from the ground it would
have a master override to allow the cockpit door to be opened
Pilots in the USA will never report these type of things because, and some of the daily mail posters in here will love, you instantly lose your job/never get hired again.