I'm far from an expert on guns, does anyone know if their is anything significant in the fact, it was a 'projectile' not a 'cartridge' found in the toilet bowl?
She was hot and trying to get a bit of cooler air to circulate - same reason Oscar went to get the fan?
Or maybe she'd showered earlier and opened it to get the steam out, without OP realising what she'd done? Or maybe opened the window to clear the steam off the mirror so she could do her hair or something?
Possible but it was next to the toilet and 3AM.
Some posters including me were wondering why if she knew he was terrified of a break-in would she have left the window open, prior to that.
In his affidavit he mentioned another unsecured window he thought the intruder entered through. So that makes two windows that were not secured, plus the balcony.
Possible but it was next to the toilet and 3AM
Some posters including me were wondering why if she knew he was terrified of a break-in would she have left the window open, prior to that.
Thats presuming she did . We only have Oscars word that the window was open .He might well have opened it himself to make it seem like he could be terified .
The problem is we are inclined to believe every word he is saying , he could be lieing through his teeth on many accounts
Thats presuming she did . We only have Oscars word that the window was open .He might well have opened it himself to make it seem like he could be terified .
The problem is we are inclined to believe every word he is saying , he could be lieing through his teeth on many accounts
Oh yes I'm aware of that. As you say, it is a problem when we only follow his timeline. We don't even know that she slept where he said she did. Or that they were sleeping.
#OscarPistorius For background, Dup de Bruyn SC represented Fred van der Vyver in the Inge Lotz murder trial.
#OscarPistorius Reeva Steenkamp's parents have appointed lawyers to look after and protect their interests.
#OscarPistorius We have appointed attorney Mike V, De Villiers Inc. and Adv. Dup de Bruyn SC to look after and protect our interests.
#OscarPistorius Statement: We humbly request the media to respect our privacy.
#OscarPistorius Statement: Therefore, for the time being there will be no interviews or discussions with the media whatsoever.
#OscarPistorius Statement: We fully understand the intense media interest. However this is a very sad and traumatic time for us.
#OscarPistorius Reeva Steenkamp's parents Barry and June have released a statement through their lawyers.
"Pistorius and his father seem to share a fascination with guns. According to a recent Beeld report, Henke also kept several guns and once, infamously, shot himself in the testicles while cleaning one of them."
"Pistorius and his father seem to share a fascination with guns. According to a recent Beeld report, Henke also kept several guns and once, infamously, shot himself in the testicles while cleaning one of them."
It's fair to say that the Pistorius family is a shady one
I don't like thinking that OP is a killer, I admired him quite a bit and so it's a sad sight but admittedly, it is clear there is a very big chance he did kill his girlfriend through malice rather than accident. I watched that promo of Reeva in that reality show that came out after she died and at the end of the video she says something like 'I love you so much and I'll miss you all'. Must be painful watching that back now from anyone who knew hers perspective.
The sooner we find out what exactly happened that night the better, for now, I'm finding it difficult to cast any judgement one way or the other because I feel like either stories could be the case. Just because Oscar's story is far fetched or strange isn't enough to say it's not true I guess.
I just wondered whether that Rudi Visagie case from a few years back sets any precedent or was it obvious from the get go Rudi didn't mean it?
Oscar may still be in denial to some extent regarding what happened, and hides behind the intruder story, which he believes in his own mind is what made him accidentally kill his girlfriend. Will he break down on the stand and tell the complete truth ? (I don't think he killed her through malice, but a lot of the things in his present version of events appear embellishments to ease his own mind, and to avoid the turmoil facing the truth would cause him.)
Well, I must admit that the more I read about his family, the more I believe his account has been embellished at best if indeed his father and/or brother were already at the scene of the killing by the time the police got there.
Oscar may still be in denial to some extent regarding what happened, and hides behind the intruder story, which he believes in his own mind is what made him accidentally kill his girlfriend. Will he break down on the stand and tell the complete truth ? (I don't think he killed her through malice, but a lot of the things in his present version of events appear embellishments to ease his own mind, and to avoid the turmoil facing the truth would cause him.)
The vast majority of people trip up when cross questioned about a story they've made up. It's very, very difficult to maintain coherency under questioning.
If it's embellishment/invented, I'm sure it'll become clear.
It's fair to say that the Pistorius family is a shady one
I don't like thinking that OP is a killer, I admired him quite a bit and so it's a sad sight but admittedly, it is clear there is a very big chance he did kill his girlfriend through malice rather than accident. I watched that promo of Reeva in that reality show that came out after she died and at the end of the video she says something like 'I love you so much and I'll miss you all'. Must be painful watching that back now from anyone who knew hers perspective.
The sooner we find out what exactly happened that night the better, for now, I'm finding it difficult to cast any judgement one way or the other because I feel like either stories could be the case. Just because Oscar's story is far fetched or strange isn't enough to say it's not true I guess.
I just wondered whether that Rudi Visagie case from a few years back sets any precedent or was it obvious from the get go Rudi didn't mean it?
Hi, haven't posted in this thread yet but have been reading.
About BIB, I didn't even know about this case but the first thing my mum said when she heard about OP was about this exact case. The stories to me after reading the facts of the case are incredibly similar.
OP wakes in the middle of the night, hears an 'intruder' in the toilet. RV wakes in the middle of the night (or early morning if you like) thinks he hears a burglar stealing his daughters car. The similar thing is that neither Oscar (if his story is believed of course) nor Rudi thought before shooting at the 'intruders' that the most simple explanation is Oscars case is that the girlfriend currently in the house with him would be in the toilet, or in Rudi's case his daughter may well be leaving in her own car. Neither thought before they shot. It was said Rudi had suffered enough due to knowing that he caused his daughters death, we'll have to wait and see if this sets precedent for Oscar.
For the record I really don't know what I think about OP case just yet, we've only heard his side and I'd rather wait until the trial to hear both defence and prosecutions side before claiming his innocence or guilt like people on here seem to already have.
One thing people have had a lot of problems with is how he got up from the bed and went into the bathroom without noticing Reeva was not in the bed. I think he was actually blanking her because he had had a bit of a row with her, so he deliberately avoiding having anything to do with her at the time he thought he heard an intruder.
When he got to the bathroom and discharged his pistol, Reeva being blanked from his mind, he could not even consider it might be her in the toilet cubicle and was convinced it was an intruder. When he discovered he had shot her, at first because he had blanked her, he had little response, but after a while, looking at the scene, it suddenly hit him what he had done; he realised that him blanking her was why he never gave it a thought she might be in the cubicle. If he had not had the row with her, and had not blanked her, he would have stopped to think. He knows this and this is what he is trying to hide from his own memory and consciousness.
What was the row about ? It seems he could be stifling her
and she needed more emotional space in their relationship.
One thing people have had a lot of problems with is how he got up from the bed and went into the bathroom without noticing Reeva was not in the bed. I think he was actually blanking her because he had had a bit of a row with her, so he deliberately avoiding having anything to do with her at the time he thought he heard an intruder.
You'd think that the idea of an intruder would make him forget about any argument and think of her safety?
I think i got it wrong about the bullet found in the toilet bowl. It appears Botha did find them all, 3 in bathroom, 1 in passage. Inside the toilet was a projectile from a shot.
I think i got it wrong about the bullet found in the toilet bowl. It appears Botha did find them all, 3 in bathroom, 1 in passage. Inside the toilet was a projectile from a shot.
Hi, haven't posted in this thread yet but have been reading.
About BIB, I didn't even know about this case but the first thing my mum said when she heard about OP was about this exact case. The stories to me after reading the facts of the case are incredibly similar.
OP wakes in the middle of the night, hears an 'intruder' in the toilet. RV wakes in the middle of the night (or early morning if you like) thinks he hears a burglar stealing his daughters car. The similar thing is that neither Oscar (if his story is believed of course) nor Rudi thought before shooting at the 'intruders' that the most simple explanation is Oscars case is that the girlfriend currently in the house with him would be in the toilet, or in Rudi's case his daughter may well be leaving in her own car. Neither thought before they shot. It was said Rudi had suffered enough due to knowing that he caused his daughters death, we'll have to wait and see if this sets precedent for Oscar.
For the record I really don't know what I think about OP case just yet, we've only heard his side and I'd rather wait until the trial to hear both defence and prosecutions side before claiming his innocence or guilt like people on here seem to already have.
At the risk of sounding more cynical than I mean to, it almost makes you wonder if the precident set in RVs case (which the defence actually mentioned at the bail hearing) might be influencing the extent to which OP claims to have been so madly in love with Reeva.
Seems the Pistorius defence is getting alot of crediblity, do remember this was put forward by a highly paid team to represent OP's best interest. When witnesses say 'they argued' 'I heard gun shots' 'her skull was smashed with a bat' this seems to get far less credibilty despite the fact it was volunteered without obvious bias. If thats what they saw then thats what they saw and the Pistorius defence is seriously flawed. Someone is clearly lying the question for me is why would the witnesses and family members of Stenkamp lie? There is clear motive for OP to lie if you beleive the police and prosecution, no reason for the prosecution to lie, it is simply their job to establish the facts and present them as they find them.
Seems the Pistorius defence is getting alot of crediblity, do remember this was put forward by a highly paid team to represent OP's best interest. When witnesses say 'they argued' 'I heard gun shots' 'her skull was smashed with a bat' this seems to get far less credibilty despite the fact it was volunteered without obvious bias. If thats what they saw then thats what they saw and the Pistorius defence is seriously flawed. Someone is clearly lying the question for me is why would the witnesses and family members of Stenkamp lie? There is clear motive for OP to lie if you beleive the police and prosecution, no reason for the prosecution to lie, it is simply their job to establish the facts and present them as they find them.
Except there is a political imperative to prosecute crimes against women and children and Botha gave conflicting accounts and / or climbed down from his initial assertions and post mortem examination according to him showed no signs of her skull being bashed in with a bat according to him and the defense and not contested by the prosecutor.
Comments
Possible but it was next to the toilet and 3AM.
Some posters including me were wondering why if she knew he was terrified of a break-in would she have left the window open, prior to that.
In his affidavit he mentioned another unsecured window he thought the intruder entered through. So that makes two windows that were not secured, plus the balcony.
Thats presuming she did . We only have Oscars word that the window was open .He might well have opened it himself to make it seem like he could be terified .
The problem is we are inclined to believe every word he is saying , he could be lieing through his teeth on many accounts
Not so. It can only be a disputed allegation of murder until conviction but he admits killing. It isn't an allegation it's an admitted fact.
Oh yes I'm aware of that. As you say, it is a problem when we only follow his timeline. We don't even know that she slept where he said she did. Or that they were sleeping.
#OscarPistorius Reeva Steenkamp's parents have appointed lawyers to look after and protect their interests.
#OscarPistorius We have appointed attorney Mike V, De Villiers Inc. and Adv. Dup de Bruyn SC to look after and protect our interests.
#OscarPistorius Statement: We humbly request the media to respect our privacy.
#OscarPistorius Statement: Therefore, for the time being there will be no interviews or discussions with the media whatsoever.
#OscarPistorius Statement: We fully understand the intense media interest. However this is a very sad and traumatic time for us.
#OscarPistorius Reeva Steenkamp's parents Barry and June have released a statement through their lawyers.
"Pistorius and his father seem to share a fascination with guns. According to a recent Beeld report, Henke also kept several guns and once, infamously, shot himself in the testicles while cleaning one of them."
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2013-02-22-00-pistorius-south-africa-bears-and-breeds-these-men
:eek:
The whole article includes a lot of, shall we say, interesting information.
Spooky. I had just finished reading that. :eek:
I guess it was a slow day for Big Game.
I don't like thinking that OP is a killer, I admired him quite a bit and so it's a sad sight but admittedly, it is clear there is a very big chance he did kill his girlfriend through malice rather than accident. I watched that promo of Reeva in that reality show that came out after she died and at the end of the video she says something like 'I love you so much and I'll miss you all'. Must be painful watching that back now from anyone who knew hers perspective.
The sooner we find out what exactly happened that night the better, for now, I'm finding it difficult to cast any judgement one way or the other because I feel like either stories could be the case. Just because Oscar's story is far fetched or strange isn't enough to say it's not true I guess.
I just wondered whether that Rudi Visagie case from a few years back sets any precedent or was it obvious from the get go Rudi didn't mean it?
The vast majority of people trip up when cross questioned about a story they've made up. It's very, very difficult to maintain coherency under questioning.
If it's embellishment/invented, I'm sure it'll become clear.
Hi, haven't posted in this thread yet but have been reading.
About BIB, I didn't even know about this case but the first thing my mum said when she heard about OP was about this exact case. The stories to me after reading the facts of the case are incredibly similar.
OP wakes in the middle of the night, hears an 'intruder' in the toilet. RV wakes in the middle of the night (or early morning if you like) thinks he hears a burglar stealing his daughters car. The similar thing is that neither Oscar (if his story is believed of course) nor Rudi thought before shooting at the 'intruders' that the most simple explanation is Oscars case is that the girlfriend currently in the house with him would be in the toilet, or in Rudi's case his daughter may well be leaving in her own car. Neither thought before they shot. It was said Rudi had suffered enough due to knowing that he caused his daughters death, we'll have to wait and see if this sets precedent for Oscar.
For the record I really don't know what I think about OP case just yet, we've only heard his side and I'd rather wait until the trial to hear both defence and prosecutions side before claiming his innocence or guilt like people on here seem to already have.
One doesn't have to be drunk to act recklessly.
When he got to the bathroom and discharged his pistol, Reeva being blanked from his mind, he could not even consider it might be her in the toilet cubicle and was convinced it was an intruder. When he discovered he had shot her, at first because he had blanked her, he had little response, but after a while, looking at the scene, it suddenly hit him what he had done; he realised that him blanking her was why he never gave it a thought she might be in the cubicle. If he had not had the row with her, and had not blanked her, he would have stopped to think. He knows this and this is what he is trying to hide from his own memory and consciousness.
What was the row about ? It seems he could be stifling her
and she needed more emotional space in their relationship.
You'd think that the idea of an intruder would make him forget about any argument and think of her safety?
A projectile is a bullet.
At the risk of sounding more cynical than I mean to, it almost makes you wonder if the precident set in RVs case (which the defence actually mentioned at the bail hearing) might be influencing the extent to which OP claims to have been so madly in love with Reeva.
I'm pleased you realise it is weird.
You do find that certain women are attracted to killers, for some reason. Some even get married to death row prisoners. Each to their own ...
Except there is a political imperative to prosecute crimes against women and children and Botha gave conflicting accounts and / or climbed down from his initial assertions and post mortem examination according to him showed no signs of her skull being bashed in with a bat according to him and the defense and not contested by the prosecutor.