From what I can tell from reading posts on this forum and the DA forum, the class issue is much larger in DA than in DM. There is a member on the DA forum who explains things very thoroughly, and was particularly enlightening for me. Especially having to do with Robert's and Edith's behaviors.
A few years ago there was a British member on this forum who explained a lot about why the class difference between Louisa and Martin isn't as impenetrable or significant as we might think. The class system in Britain is very complex. An outsider can easily misinterpret things. A member of the DA household would never think of Louisa as a potential spouse - unless he was willing to move out or willing to withstand a lifetime of scrutiny from the rest of society. Think of where the DA doctor is in stratosphere of the DA world, or where the lawyers are. From the posts about class over the years, the DA world is not as different now as we would think it should be in the 21st century. Martin is from a family of greater means than Louisa but I don't think it would be a major factor if they split up. The townspeople think of him as a snob, but not necessarily of higher class than them. I've gleened this over the years, it's not something I understand or have real knowledge of since I'm an American.
I wish there were more British contributors to this forum since it's a British show.
One of the ways in which Martin Ellingham stands out is that, while he clearly is of a different social class than most of Portwenn, Louisa included, it really seems to make no difference in his interactions with and treatment of them. The major and his wife, the McLynns, even the odious Wenns, are possibly more of his same social status, yet there isn't much difference in the way he deals with them than with Eddie Ricks or Uncle Jimmy, e.g.
His relationship with Edith is interesting in that respect. They clearly have the same background, the same slightly ironic way of communicating, share a whole world of social status and behavior. She's predictable to him, therefore, in a way that Louisa is not (leaving aside the fact that he didn't fully undestand her designs on him until the hotel scene).
We're in a different era than the Downton Abbey one, but I think class considerations still have some force in England. I heard somewhere that, from the moment someone begins speaking, an English person knows just about all there is to know about that person's background, geographically and in class terms. Probably an exaggeration to make a point, but something to it.
don't forget that they have DM say to Luisa, in "erotomania", (just before we hear the slap) that it usually involves someone who develops a fixation on someone older, of higher social status, and ... etc etc. So the writers seem to have put that in purposefully - a bit of class issues between our leading couple. With DM having the snob role and L, of course, not having snob issues but open and fair to Martin --- despite his being a snot a lot/most of the time.... ; )
I was agreeing with you primo, that there are prats on the forum, not that you are one of them. Those who have prats will likely not know it because that's the way they handle the world. You have not been called out, your mention of the issue inspired me to comment as I did. Cheers......
Not sure if I fit the definition of "prat" or "complainer" but if I do, oh, well.
If not, anyway, I feel I still need to address that previous post.
On a forum, it is open for debating all aspects of a show, what you like, and dislike, what you enjoyed about the writing, what was trite or overused, or unclear, or brilliant, which characters you favor, or don't, the pros/cons of it all.
There always was, still is, and no doubt will be repetition in the future on a show which makes all of 8 episodes every two years. That seems fairly obvious. From the get go there has been discussion, debate, argument, sharing on the same topics over and over. One should be used to that by now.
In fact, how many times on the Forum has a self-righteous individual called out the "prats" and complained about the complainers? That's pretty repetitious too, and I feel also led to people feeling attacked and leaving.
Public displays of judgment is a harsh way to express your discontent, especially when vaguely mentioning "those" people but not having the clarity to say who you are specifically referring to. How does that help at all, except to make people wary and defensive?
If some poster is a real problem to you, one can always PM that person privately, and diplomatically communicate what you need to process. That is always better than pointing fingers in public at people, which is off-putting and embarrassing to those who have to figure out if you are speaking to them.
It certainly is an completely unhelpful way to try to improve the list.
Yes, we all view this show (and every other show, movie, book, piece of art, conversation, and every single human interaction!) through our own lenses. We are shaped by the experiences, cultures, and influences of our lives, both good and bad.
Certainly, we can have straightforward reactions that align with the intentions of the writers/actors. We laugh (or at least smirk), when Martin whacks his head on a door frame. We feel the loss when we are told of Aunty Joan's death. And we roll our eyes (and maybe chuckle) when yet another one of Bert & Al's schemes fall through.
But on a deeper level, be it the characters, or the plot, or the dialogue, something will resonate with each of us depending on our own life experiences. Maybe it's that we can relate to a character, because they remind us of ourselves, or someone we know well. Maybe it's a situation in which we can see similarities to our own lives. Maybe we find ourselves irritated because the show is portraying an issue or event that is personally meaningful to us, and it's not how we'd hoped it would be portrayed.
For me personally, this means I am cheering for Martin and Louisa to overcome the obstacles in their relationship and become a functioning family, as I've seen firsthand the benefits of a couple working through some major issues in order to move forward.
As for the news of a possible series past S7, I'd like to see some official confirmation before getting my hopes up too high! If there are going to be further series, I hope that they don't make us wait until the very, very end to see Martin and Louisa together
Thanks, EarlGrey and NewPark for your additional posts on my questions. I truly appreciate all the responses and find in the long run, there is just so much to this show that trying to capture one essence is like trying to count the sand on the beach. Hence, the universal appeal it seems to have to so many no matter where they live or what they've done. Such a human story told in a unique way. I just have so much respect for the show and all its creators. Thank you all again!
Not sure if I fit the definition of "prat" or "complainer" but if I do, oh, well.
If not, anyway, I feel I still need to address that previous post.
On a forum, it is open for debating all aspects of a show, what you like, and dislike, what you enjoyed about the writing, what was trite or overused, or unclear, or brilliant, which characters you favor, or don't, the pros/cons of it all.
There always was, still is, and no doubt will be repetition in the future on a show which makes all of 8 episodes every two years. That seems fairly obvious. From the get go there has been discussion, debate, argument, sharing on the same topics over and over. One should be used to that by now.
In fact, how many times on the Forum has a self-righteous individual called out the "prats" and complained about the complainers? That's pretty repetitious too, and I feel also led to people feeling attacked and leaving.
Public displays of judgment is a harsh way to express your discontent, especially when vaguely mentioning "those" people but not having the clarity to say who you are specifically referring to. How does that help at all, except to make people wary and defensive?
If some poster is a real problem to you, one can always PM that person privately, and diplomatically communicate what you need to process. That is always better than pointing fingers in public at people, which is off-putting and embarrassing to those who have to figure out if you are speaking to them.
It certainly is an completely unhelpful way to try to improve the list.
Maybe you are right...my post was "pratish" too. Mea Culpa. The problem with pm'ing rude people are they are just as rude to your private message and have no intention of changing...I've been told some are like Doc Martin and don't have the ability to realize their behavior is irregular....true Aspies. I believe if we post politely to each other and don't showcase what study groups you are in, or where you live or how many degrees you have as a sword of Damocles over others it's a good experience. Maintain respect for the other person and don't be mean....don't be snappish. This format draws a more sophisticated fan. Don't be high handed. That about sums it up
One of the ways in which Martin Ellingham stands out is that, while he clearly is of a different social class than most of Portwenn, Louisa included, it really seems to make no difference in his interactions with and treatment of them. The major and his wife, the McLynns, even the odious Wenns, are possibly more of his same social status, yet there isn't much difference in the way he deals with them than with Eddie Ricks or Uncle Jimmy, e.g.
His relationship with Edith is interesting in that respect. They clearly have the same background, the same slightly ironic way of communicating, share a whole world of social status and behavior. She's predictable to him, therefore, in a way that Louisa is not (leaving aside the fact that he didn't fully undestand her designs on him until the hotel scene).
We're in a different era than the Downton Abbey one, but I think class considerations still have some force in England. I heard somewhere that, from the moment someone begins speaking, an English person knows just about all there is to know about that person's background, geographically and in class terms. Probably an exaggeration to make a point, but something to it.
That's a good point, comparing Edith vs. LG say in relationship to DM, based on "class" and social history.
I always thought DM's social history, money, status, education, etc. was a huge part of DM; the proverbial fish out of water. As well as his problematic personality (which as we know, was not that problematic at first, really, but became so as MC desired), his car, suits, education, snobbish intelligence, really put him "above" the typical PW villager, as we gauge class distinctions.
It seems that DM's personality did fine for him in London, running the Vascular Department, allowed him to gain respect and admiration. He was surrounded by many of the same, perhaps, type of social connections, including Edith.
Edith has a very different personality than LG, as we all know, but it does seem like her shared class history with DM, does perhaps keep them "in the know" with each other and accepting aspects of each other, causing them to have a much less stressful connection, while LG is not in the know and is not accepting, and they suffer a lot more stress as a result.
Maybe you are right...my post was "pratish" too. Mea Culpa. The problem with pm'ing rude people are they are just as rude to your private message and have no intention of changing...I've been told some are like Doc Martin and don't have the ability to realize their behavior is irregular....true Aspies. I believe if we post politely to each other and don't showcase what study groups you are in, or where you live or how many degrees you have as a sword of Damocles over others it's a good experience. Maintain respect for the other person and don't be mean....don't be snappish. This format draws a more sophisticated fan. Don't be high handed. That about sums it up
That's a good point, comparing Edith vs. LG say in relationship to DM, based on "class" and social history.
I always thought DM's social history, money, status, education, etc. was a huge part of DM; the proverbial fish out of water. As well as his problematic personality (which as we know, was not that problematic at first, really, but became so as MC desired), his car, suits, education, snobbish intelligence, really put him "above" the typical PW villager, as we gauge class distinctions.
It seems that DM's personality did fine for him in London, running the Vascular Department, allowed him to gain respect and admiration. He was surrounded by many of the same, perhaps, type of social connections, including Edith.
Edith has a very different personality than LG, as we all know, but it does seem like her shared class history with DM, does perhaps keep them "in the know" with each other and accepting aspects of each other, causing them to have a much less stressful connection, while LG is not in the know and is not accepting, and they suffer a lot more stress as a result.
Interesting...for all the circumstance and set-up in "DM" it appears to present very little example of class conflict. I imagine that BP and the writers made a concentrated effort to avoid depicting class differences, but more personality conflicts. They didn't want to make that what the story is about. Except for a few choice zingers..."Terry.....don't you think that's a bit common? Like there's too many Terrys already?" Brilliant.
They instead made it more about people....stupid people, ignorant people, smart people and snobby people....class doesn't hit you in the face at all. I am assuming the actual "class system" is breaking down in the UK now that the working rich have emerged and old money millionaires have gone broke. Of course I have no idea what is said in the depths of those dark, wood paneled offices on the Estates. Someone would have to set up a video like they did to Mitt Romney a couple of years ago to have an idea.
While we have heard MC and PB talk about purposely making DM more grumpy, I see that now as part of his role in S2 when he's jealous of Danny, and beyond that to being the fish constantly almost always out of water which leads to frustration and unhappiness for him. Getting grumpier right up until he gets some relief when he and Louisa start doing better, though he still manages awkward quite well. Then the disappointment of the non-wedding. Well, what's a guy to do? Try to get his life back to where he felt good. But then comes a pregnancy and a baby, and it's eggshells all over the place. Bit of a breakdown. Works for me.
There are so many great and funny lines - I'll admit some I have missed but after rewatching, there is a wealth of them.
One, that I still think of and smile, is when the Doc begins to treat Danny's collapsed lung. He is going to make an opening to the chest cavity (?) he says something like "....just a little prick, Danny." TheDoc is always on his game. So clever ;-)
My friend was on his ipod (music) and I was watching this eppy of DM online. He begins to watch with me and we hear that great line - the two of us are now laughing like idiots. My friend and I have a secret code. Danny: tlp
Doc: TBP
Another one is the end of season 4 and the Doc is packing up the office. Pauline is at her desk reorganizing the patient files and he begins to complain. She interrupts him and cleverly asks "where is your desk" and the rest of that scene is just so funny. She delivers in her final scenes, btw. I miss her
There are so many great and funny lines - I'll admit some I have missed but after rewatching, there is a wealth of them.
One, that I still think of and smile, is when the Doc begins to treat Danny's collapsed lung. He is going to make an opening to the chest cavity (?) he says something like "....just a little prick, Danny." TheDoc is always on his game. So clever ;-)
My friend was on his ipod (music) and I was watching this eppy of DM online. He begins to watch with me and we hear that great line - the two of us are now laughing like idiots. My friend and I have a secret code. Danny: tlp
Doc: TBP
Another one is the end of season 4 and the Doc is packing up the office. Pauline is at her desk reorganizing the patient files and he begins to complain. She interrupts him and cleverly asks "where is your desk" and the rest of that scene is just so funny. She delivers in her final scenes, btw. I miss her
Anyone else have a favorite or two ?
I am doing a rewatch and it is the only reason I know this but the "just a little prick" came when Martin was injecting Caroline with insulin....no big deal. The scripts are filled with brilliant lines.
Danny: Like God.
DM: He works in mysterious ways....like malaria
one of my fav scenes is the morning after scene...
After DM and L are "caught" by the postman, he and Elaine are gossiping about it.
Lines; L had that look. The Doc had quite a pajama party. Then the Doc walks into the office, Elaine asks him if he slept alright - and the postman about chokes to death on his donut
A scene that has always struck me as very funny is the one in which Melanie's Dad -- a huge man who towers over DM, who is clearly afraid of him -- starts apologizing for his daughter and speaking psychobabble about Melanie being in the grips of transference, a good old psychological concept which we might expect to hear from Dr. Milligan, but not from this man!
The other scene that I always find very amusing is the opening scene of S3, in which Martin is walking down the street, encountering the dragons, wizards and goths of the fairy story that Louisa is reading aloud to the schoolchildren.
one of my fav scenes is the morning after scene...
After DM and L are "caught" by the postman, he and Elaine are gossiping about it.
Lines; L had that look. The Doc had quite a pajama party. Then the Doc walks into the office, Elaine asks him if he slept alright - and the postman about chokes to death on his donut
What makes that even MORE funny is if you remember Dave the postie as one of Martin's mates from "The Doc Martin Movie". He was much fatter then and ate all the time in the movie and there was one scene where he is choking...literally on a chicken bone and Martin saves him with the Heimlich manuever. So Dave's eating, choking, coughing was all a reflection of his past performance. I love this stuff about the program.
I read a lot about the class system on this forum lately. My take is that it is of no importance to Martin. He treats Pitts and the Colonel just as miserably as anyone else, while he shows more respect to Peter Cronk than to most of the people he has met.
On the other hand, I think Louisa has an issue with it and feels inferior at times, adding to her irritability. She refers to Martin as a "proper professional" when she talks about her own insecurity being new as a head teacher, she's quite edgy after she tells him that her grandfather was a postman and snaps at him regarding his "I see" as criticism (which I personally don't think it was).
I happened to watch "The Tameness of the Wolf" lately. When Ruth is in the kitchen with the lunatic, who is besotted with her, and he is threatening Martin with a knife, Ruth splutters "I love you."
A little take on the abduction scene at the end of S5, when Louisa persuades Martin to assure Mrs. T that he loves her.
At that point, Ruth scolds Louisa that it would be the worst possible thing to do and that Louisa has absolutely no clue about psychology whatsoever.
A couple of episodes later, she's following Lousia's advice.
I am doing a rewatch and it is the only reason I know this but the "just a little prick" came when Martin was injecting Caroline with insulin....no big deal. The scripts are filled with brilliant lines.
Danny: Like God.
DM: He works in mysterious ways....like malaria
Danny: Bless you Martin
DM: I didn't sneeze.
We'll have to think of more. There are tons.
Oops - thanks, Mofromco! Danny was in that scene, too. Sorry, I got it wrong. The line was perfect, though.
You're right, there are so many great lines and sometimes they slide right by me until I rewatch and catch the little gems. Love it.
Thanks for sharing! I noticed that you can see Caroline's tattoo in the close-up photo - it's visible through her sleeve. For all the work they do to cover it on DM, I was expecting something like a skull or Voldemort's Death Eater mark!
Comments
One of the ways in which Martin Ellingham stands out is that, while he clearly is of a different social class than most of Portwenn, Louisa included, it really seems to make no difference in his interactions with and treatment of them. The major and his wife, the McLynns, even the odious Wenns, are possibly more of his same social status, yet there isn't much difference in the way he deals with them than with Eddie Ricks or Uncle Jimmy, e.g.
His relationship with Edith is interesting in that respect. They clearly have the same background, the same slightly ironic way of communicating, share a whole world of social status and behavior. She's predictable to him, therefore, in a way that Louisa is not (leaving aside the fact that he didn't fully undestand her designs on him until the hotel scene).
We're in a different era than the Downton Abbey one, but I think class considerations still have some force in England. I heard somewhere that, from the moment someone begins speaking, an English person knows just about all there is to know about that person's background, geographically and in class terms. Probably an exaggeration to make a point, but something to it.
Not sure if I fit the definition of "prat" or "complainer" but if I do, oh, well.
If not, anyway, I feel I still need to address that previous post.
On a forum, it is open for debating all aspects of a show, what you like, and dislike, what you enjoyed about the writing, what was trite or overused, or unclear, or brilliant, which characters you favor, or don't, the pros/cons of it all.
There always was, still is, and no doubt will be repetition in the future on a show which makes all of 8 episodes every two years. That seems fairly obvious. From the get go there has been discussion, debate, argument, sharing on the same topics over and over. One should be used to that by now.
In fact, how many times on the Forum has a self-righteous individual called out the "prats" and complained about the complainers? That's pretty repetitious too, and I feel also led to people feeling attacked and leaving.
Public displays of judgment is a harsh way to express your discontent, especially when vaguely mentioning "those" people but not having the clarity to say who you are specifically referring to. How does that help at all, except to make people wary and defensive?
If some poster is a real problem to you, one can always PM that person privately, and diplomatically communicate what you need to process. That is always better than pointing fingers in public at people, which is off-putting and embarrassing to those who have to figure out if you are speaking to them.
It certainly is an completely unhelpful way to try to improve the list.
Thanks, EarlGrey and NewPark for your additional posts on my questions. I truly appreciate all the responses and find in the long run, there is just so much to this show that trying to capture one essence is like trying to count the sand on the beach. Hence, the universal appeal it seems to have to so many no matter where they live or what they've done. Such a human story told in a unique way. I just have so much respect for the show and all its creators. Thank you all again!
While viewing this, thanks to you, Kernow, I noticed another article headline about the Port Isaac policeman retiring.
My quirky mind came up ever so quickly with this thought: "Well, it's a good thing PC Penhale will be back on the job starting in late March then."
Silly me.
Maybe you are right...my post was "pratish" too. Mea Culpa. The problem with pm'ing rude people are they are just as rude to your private message and have no intention of changing...I've been told some are like Doc Martin and don't have the ability to realize their behavior is irregular....true Aspies. I believe if we post politely to each other and don't showcase what study groups you are in, or where you live or how many degrees you have as a sword of Damocles over others it's a good experience. Maintain respect for the other person and don't be mean....don't be snappish. This format draws a more sophisticated fan. Don't be high handed. That about sums it up
Oh Susie, don't you remember episode 8 -- PC Penhale becomes a New York City policeman. ;-)
How soon I forget !!!!! Thanks for the giggle, Bloodphobia.
That's a good point, comparing Edith vs. LG say in relationship to DM, based on "class" and social history.
I always thought DM's social history, money, status, education, etc. was a huge part of DM; the proverbial fish out of water. As well as his problematic personality (which as we know, was not that problematic at first, really, but became so as MC desired), his car, suits, education, snobbish intelligence, really put him "above" the typical PW villager, as we gauge class distinctions.
It seems that DM's personality did fine for him in London, running the Vascular Department, allowed him to gain respect and admiration. He was surrounded by many of the same, perhaps, type of social connections, including Edith.
Edith has a very different personality than LG, as we all know, but it does seem like her shared class history with DM, does perhaps keep them "in the know" with each other and accepting aspects of each other, causing them to have a much less stressful connection, while LG is not in the know and is not accepting, and they suffer a lot more stress as a result.
Those are good Forum rules, Mofromco! ;-)
Interesting...for all the circumstance and set-up in "DM" it appears to present very little example of class conflict. I imagine that BP and the writers made a concentrated effort to avoid depicting class differences, but more personality conflicts. They didn't want to make that what the story is about. Except for a few choice zingers..."Terry.....don't you think that's a bit common? Like there's too many Terrys already?" Brilliant.
They instead made it more about people....stupid people, ignorant people, smart people and snobby people....class doesn't hit you in the face at all. I am assuming the actual "class system" is breaking down in the UK now that the working rich have emerged and old money millionaires have gone broke. Of course I have no idea what is said in the depths of those dark, wood paneled offices on the Estates. Someone would have to set up a video like they did to Mitt Romney a couple of years ago to have an idea.
Thoughts anyone?
One, that I still think of and smile, is when the Doc begins to treat Danny's collapsed lung. He is going to make an opening to the chest cavity (?) he says something like "....just a little prick, Danny." TheDoc is always on his game. So clever ;-)
My friend was on his ipod (music) and I was watching this eppy of DM online. He begins to watch with me and we hear that great line - the two of us are now laughing like idiots. My friend and I have a secret code. Danny: tlp
Doc: TBP
Another one is the end of season 4 and the Doc is packing up the office. Pauline is at her desk reorganizing the patient files and he begins to complain. She interrupts him and cleverly asks "where is your desk" and the rest of that scene is just so funny. She delivers in her final scenes, btw. I miss her
Anyone else have a favorite or two ?
I am doing a rewatch and it is the only reason I know this but the "just a little prick" came when Martin was injecting Caroline with insulin....no big deal. The scripts are filled with brilliant lines.
Danny: Like God.
DM: He works in mysterious ways....like malaria
Danny: Bless you Martin
DM: I didn't sneeze.
We'll have to think of more. There are tons.
After DM and L are "caught" by the postman, he and Elaine are gossiping about it.
Lines; L had that look. The Doc had quite a pajama party. Then the Doc walks into the office, Elaine asks him if he slept alright - and the postman about chokes to death on his donut
The other scene that I always find very amusing is the opening scene of S3, in which Martin is walking down the street, encountering the dragons, wizards and goths of the fairy story that Louisa is reading aloud to the schoolchildren.
What makes that even MORE funny is if you remember Dave the postie as one of Martin's mates from "The Doc Martin Movie". He was much fatter then and ate all the time in the movie and there was one scene where he is choking...literally on a chicken bone and Martin saves him with the Heimlich manuever. So Dave's eating, choking, coughing was all a reflection of his past performance. I love this stuff about the program.
On the other hand, I think Louisa has an issue with it and feels inferior at times, adding to her irritability. She refers to Martin as a "proper professional" when she talks about her own insecurity being new as a head teacher, she's quite edgy after she tells him that her grandfather was a postman and snaps at him regarding his "I see" as criticism (which I personally don't think it was).
A little take on the abduction scene at the end of S5, when Louisa persuades Martin to assure Mrs. T that he loves her.
At that point, Ruth scolds Louisa that it would be the worst possible thing to do and that Louisa has absolutely no clue about psychology whatsoever.
A couple of episodes later, she's following Lousia's advice.
http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/557740/DCI-Banks-Caroline-Catz-interview
Oops - thanks, Mofromco! Danny was in that scene, too. Sorry, I got it wrong. The line was perfect, though.
You're right, there are so many great lines and sometimes they slide right by me until I rewatch and catch the little gems. Love it.
Thanks for sharing! I noticed that you can see Caroline's tattoo in the close-up photo - it's visible through her sleeve. For all the work they do to cover it on DM, I was expecting something like a skull or Voldemort's Death Eater mark!