Now one of the families is blaming the Security Services for not monitoring their daughter's internet usage properly...
Just saw that on the news a few moments ago - no reason to see what the girl herself was posting but I would be particularly surprised if the 'celebrity emigrant' who left some time ago was not being watched simply as a matter of being high-profile. Was *nobody* looking?
"British authorities are not doing enough to alert parents when their children are at risk of being radicalised online, a lawyer for the family of a young woman who joined Islamic State has said."
So it's the fault of the government that their children are being indoctrinated and lured to the delights of Syria.
If the parents cannot bring up their children and keep tabs on what they do, why do they think the government will tap them on the shoulder and alert them to what their little darlings are up to?
To blame the government is merely exonerating themselves from any responsibilty.
Well they can't blame their religion or themselves. Much easier to blame the security services, or the government or the west. The usual handwringing and public grandstanding from Aamer Anwar who is well known up here in Scotland.
Just saw that on the news a few moments ago - no reason to see what the girl herself was posting but I would be particularly surprised if the 'celebrity emigrant' who left some time ago was not being watched simply as a matter of being high-profile. Was *nobody* looking?
I read that all of her accounts were being monitored (by 'her' I mean the ex-Scottish Jihadi bride who is allegedly blogging and recruiting on behalf of IS)
So I think that is why the question is being raised. If her accounts were being monitored and the was contact between her and one of these girls when they were known to be a potential risk for going to Syria, should this have been picked up?
Of course what we don't know is how monumental the overall volume of monitoring is right now - I suspect it is absolutely huge, thus making evaluation and prioritisation really difficult.
So Security Services should be monitoring all 15 year olds when they use the internet?
No, all 15 year olds should be banned from the internet entirely!
And don't forget to give the security services lots of officially mandated powers to monitor all that stuff they've been monitoring illegally for years...
Well they can't blame their religion or themselves. Much easier to blame the security services, or the government or the west. The usual handwringing and public grandstanding from Aamer Anwar who is well known up here in Scotland.
Funny how if it was 3 guys that age they would know fully well what they are doing and the brutality they are getting into but 3 girls it is all this cotton-candy view of the world and easily distracted by fluffy kittens, dashing bearded men and baby grows.
They are joining up with Islamic terrorists and will be divvied up like chattel and given to the foreign fighters of ISIS. These girls want that, their religion is compelling them to be treated like that. They aren't going on a jihadi 16-30 holiday to come back with a nice tan and stories of a holiday romance.
Not at all - I think ISIS use the same propaganda methods to appeal to the romantic fantasy ideals of young men as well - and it is far more insidious than 'come and be a brutal killer'... it is 'come and be a noble warrior who will protect women and children and fight against the evil Assad regime for a paradise Caliphate'. Its the sort of propaganda that evil regimes have used many times before to get hold of young recruits because young people are often romantic and idealistic. Of course they hold those views about their religion... but there is also a 'Prince Charming' element here because they are young girls.
Come off it, they know fully well they aren't venturing into some princess fantasy.
Decapitations and cage burnings are hardly things romantic dreams are made of.
"O Romeo, Romeo! Wherefore art thou Romeo?"
"I'm just chopping some fella's head off"
"Sigh, I love you Romeo"
As I said - the propaganda sells the killings as justified. The romance part comes from the handsome young fighters and the setting up of a 'paradise Caliphate' (romance isn't just about sex/love after all).
As I said - the propaganda sells the killings as justified. The romance part comes from the handsome young fighters and the setting up of a 'paradise Caliphate' (romance isn't just about sex/love after all).
Well call me old fashioned but I would rather receive a box of chocolates from my love, and not a bag of heads.
And if every Muslim in the Country was monitored by Security, there would be outrageous offence taken with squeals of Racism.
But what they don't know doesn't hurt them. A lot of monitoring does take place, attested to by the number of attacks thwarted. I daresay they were aware of these 3 girls and their communications, but the security services have no place intruding into family life, just in preventing UK terrorism. They weren't a threat in that respect.
Not at all - I think ISIS use the same propaganda methods to appeal to the romantic fantasy ideals of young men as well - and it is far more insidious than 'come and be a brutal killer'... it is 'come and be a noble warrior who will protect women and children and fight against the evil Assad regime for a paradise Caliphate'. Its the sort of propaganda that evil regimes have used many times before to get hold of young recruits because young people are often romantic and idealistic. Of course they hold those views about their religion... but there is also a 'Prince Charming' element here because they are young girls.
For the men it is come and be a brutal killer and get to rape women captured as slaves as the quran tells us to. For the women it is come and marry some terrorist and get to bear his children and look after the house when he is off beheading people and raping some captive woman down the slave market. Aqsa Mahmood even said there are men crying because they don't get to go on martyrdom operations but god willing the women will be given some to do as well.
They love death more than we love life. I have no problem if death is given to them, the sooner the better.
I read that all of her accounts were being monitored (by 'her' I mean the ex-Scottish Jihadi bride who is allegedly blogging and recruiting on behalf of IS)
So I think that is why the question is being raised. If her accounts were being monitored and the was contact between her and one of these girls when they were known to be a potential risk for going to Syria, should this have been picked up?
Of course what we don't know is how monumental the overall volume of monitoring is right now - I suspect it is absolutely huge, thus making evaluation and prioritisation really difficult.
.
I would guess if there's such a thing as 'ISIS intelligence' they would probably know she was being monitored, and that anything beyond general chit chat, would be made by means outside of her regular accounts.
I don't get the girls that do this, I really don't. The guys I understand - they want to go and be a jihadi warrior because they are a no-mark in this country. The girls though? Honey, if you want to be married to some illiterate from the ass end of nowhere that you've never even met and spend your life popping out kids, cleaning the house, wearing a binbag, getting treated like shit and being forbidden to do virtually everything even remotely enjoyable you can do that in this county!
Of course what we don't know is how monumental the overall volume of monitoring is right now - I suspect it is absolutely huge, thus making evaluation and prioritisation really difficult.
No question that it's a big task, and on the one hand there's people to covertly monitor but a twitter feed from jihadi bride celebrity emigrant would be on the 'easy' list, especially if it wasn't spamming all day every day(?).
Though as per other remarks, they are not part of causing a direct danger (as opposed to putting themselves in danger) so I can see why that might not put them at the same priority.
Edit : beyond that I don't know whose job it would be (if anyone) to notify someone somewhere (who?) about it - unless a cunning ploy was used, e.g. 'we think a drug-dealing pimp is grooming your daughter please help us find them' or something?
As I said - the propaganda sells the killings as justified. ...
There's an interesting parallel there with the occasional rabble over here demanding death/torture for anyone harming children - revenge on behalf of other people is hardly a new thing and there's a load of people not qualified to cast the first stone, as it were.
For the men it is come and be a brutal killer and get to rape women captured as slaves as the quran tells us to. For the women it is come and marry some terrorist and get to bear his children and look after the house when he is off beheading people and raping some captive woman down the slave market. Aqsa Mahmood even said there are men crying because they don't get to go on martyrdom operations but god willing the women will be given some to do as well.
They love death more than we love life. I have no problem if death is given to them, the sooner the better.
i do not know about the females but the males have [URL="Family Guy - Suicide Bomber: http://youtu.be/1dxpMTFBg48"]72 virgins[/URL] writing for them in heaven.
I would guess if there's such a thing as 'ISIS intelligence' they would probably know she was being monitored, and that anything beyond general chit chat, would be made by means outside of her regular accounts.
Exactly. They move to snapchat, ot txt. That too can be monitored, but it's much harder, they'll be changing numbers regularly, they are quite tech savvy as we know,
I agree. At 15 and 16 they are not too young to understand exactly what they have done. Brainwashed they may be, but they willingly allowed this to happen. They grew up in a country where they could be free but decided this is not for them.
Instead, they prefer a life of brutality, violence and oppression. Why? We need to ask where this hatred of our culture comes from in these young people. What makes them so unhappy that they choose to go lead a hard life of war and misery?
I am not for a moment suggesting they are not willing - but I do think they delude themselves into thinking what they are going to is a paradise and ISIS have cynically structured their sales pitch to hook into the psyche of young adolescents. I doubt they think that they are going to a hard miserable life - I think ISIS propaganda sells a very different view, with their images of Nutella sandwiches and happy-clappy camp-fire frolics - or noble 'humanitarian' nursing of wounded ISIS fighters or looking after orphans.
None of this is an excuse at all - they are able to decide right from wrong - but it is true that people of their age can delude themselves and are much easier to radicalise' than older people, whatever the cause. I think the girls need to be brought home and tried for their attempt to join an illegal organisation... but I don't wish on anyone the horror they have chosen for themselves.
I don't get the girls that do this, I really don't. The guys I understand - they want to go and be a jihadi warrior because they are a no-mark in this country. The girls though? Honey, if you want to be married to some illiterate from the ass end of nowhere that you've never even met and spend your life popping out kids, cleaning the house, wearing a binbag, getting treated like shit and being forbidden to do virtually everything even remotely enjoyable you can do that in this county!
I suspect a lot of it is the ultimate two fingered salute to their parents. They were probably quite westernised, but will have been told by their parents they need to forget about jobs, fashion, free will and all the other things that many take for granted, and to succumb to a life of marrying some bloke that probably isn't of their choosing and then have lots of babies, look after their man, cook and clean and generally be good Islamic wives. Weirdly, this sounds a lot like your post when I read what I typed back.
I suspect a lot of it is the ultimate two fingered salute to their parents. They were probably quite westernised, but will have been told by their parents they need to forget about jobs, fashion, free will and all the other things that many take for granted, and to succumb to a life of marrying some bloke that probably isn't of their choosing and then have lots of babies, look after their man, cook and clean and generally be good Islamic wives. Weirdly, this sounds a lot like your post when I read what I typed back.
It still points to breathtaking naevity that they've gone and done the same thing in a fly infested shithole with no maternity unit, and no way back. They're good, those IS recruiters.
i do not know about the females but the males have [URL="Family Guy - Suicide Bomber: http://youtu.be/1dxpMTFBg48"]72 virgins[/URL] writing for them in heaven.
You know what the women get? Their husbands. How obvious is it that religion is man made?
Comments
I've news for them
She was sitting in THEIR house using THEIR electric, on THEIR internet connection....and when you get right, right down it - she's THEIR daughter.
The lapses in monitoring and knowing what THEIR daughter was doing began inside THEIR front door.
Bet they try to claim next...:p
Around 36% of the reports are for 15-17 year olds.
I dare say many of their parents/guardians did not pick up on the signs or possibly give them the significance they should have either.
So Security Services should be monitoring all 15 year olds when they use the internet?
Well they can't blame their religion or themselves. Much easier to blame the security services, or the government or the west. The usual handwringing and public grandstanding from Aamer Anwar who is well known up here in Scotland.
I read that all of her accounts were being monitored (by 'her' I mean the ex-Scottish Jihadi bride who is allegedly blogging and recruiting on behalf of IS)
So I think that is why the question is being raised. If her accounts were being monitored and the was contact between her and one of these girls when they were known to be a potential risk for going to Syria, should this have been picked up?
Of course what we don't know is how monumental the overall volume of monitoring is right now - I suspect it is absolutely huge, thus making evaluation and prioritisation really difficult.
And don't forget to give the security services lots of officially mandated powers to monitor all that stuff they've been monitoring illegally for years...
Have you been the subject of a radicalisation that wasn't your fault? You may be entitled to compensation, call now etc...
Ain't that the truth. ;-)
Not at all - I think ISIS use the same propaganda methods to appeal to the romantic fantasy ideals of young men as well - and it is far more insidious than 'come and be a brutal killer'... it is 'come and be a noble warrior who will protect women and children and fight against the evil Assad regime for a paradise Caliphate'. Its the sort of propaganda that evil regimes have used many times before to get hold of young recruits because young people are often romantic and idealistic. Of course they hold those views about their religion... but there is also a 'Prince Charming' element here because they are young girls.
As I said - the propaganda sells the killings as justified. The romance part comes from the handsome young fighters and the setting up of a 'paradise Caliphate' (romance isn't just about sex/love after all).
And if every Muslim in the Country was monitored by Security, there would be outrageous offence taken with squeals of Racism.
If they do try and come back then they should be arrested.
Well call me old fashioned but I would rather receive a box of chocolates from my love, and not a bag of heads.
But what they don't know doesn't hurt them. A lot of monitoring does take place, attested to by the number of attacks thwarted. I daresay they were aware of these 3 girls and their communications, but the security services have no place intruding into family life, just in preventing UK terrorism. They weren't a threat in that respect.
For the men it is come and be a brutal killer and get to rape women captured as slaves as the quran tells us to. For the women it is come and marry some terrorist and get to bear his children and look after the house when he is off beheading people and raping some captive woman down the slave market. Aqsa Mahmood even said there are men crying because they don't get to go on martyrdom operations but god willing the women will be given some to do as well.
They love death more than we love life. I have no problem if death is given to them, the sooner the better.
I would guess if there's such a thing as 'ISIS intelligence' they would probably know she was being monitored, and that anything beyond general chit chat, would be made by means outside of her regular accounts.
Though as per other remarks, they are not part of causing a direct danger (as opposed to putting themselves in danger) so I can see why that might not put them at the same priority.
Edit : beyond that I don't know whose job it would be (if anyone) to notify someone somewhere (who?) about it - unless a cunning ploy was used, e.g. 'we think a drug-dealing pimp is grooming your daughter please help us find them' or something?
There's an interesting parallel there with the occasional rabble over here demanding death/torture for anyone harming children - revenge on behalf of other people is hardly a new thing and there's a load of people not qualified to cast the first stone, as it were.
Where's your romantic spirit? You'll never make a jihadi bride, thinking like that.
i do not know about the females but the males have [URL="Family Guy - Suicide Bomber: http://youtu.be/1dxpMTFBg48"]72 virgins[/URL] writing for them in heaven.
Exactly. They move to snapchat, ot txt. That too can be monitored, but it's much harder, they'll be changing numbers regularly, they are quite tech savvy as we know,
I am not for a moment suggesting they are not willing - but I do think they delude themselves into thinking what they are going to is a paradise and ISIS have cynically structured their sales pitch to hook into the psyche of young adolescents. I doubt they think that they are going to a hard miserable life - I think ISIS propaganda sells a very different view, with their images of Nutella sandwiches and happy-clappy camp-fire frolics - or noble 'humanitarian' nursing of wounded ISIS fighters or looking after orphans.
None of this is an excuse at all - they are able to decide right from wrong - but it is true that people of their age can delude themselves and are much easier to radicalise' than older people, whatever the cause. I think the girls need to be brought home and tried for their attempt to join an illegal organisation... but I don't wish on anyone the horror they have chosen for themselves.
I suspect a lot of it is the ultimate two fingered salute to their parents. They were probably quite westernised, but will have been told by their parents they need to forget about jobs, fashion, free will and all the other things that many take for granted, and to succumb to a life of marrying some bloke that probably isn't of their choosing and then have lots of babies, look after their man, cook and clean and generally be good Islamic wives. Weirdly, this sounds a lot like your post when I read what I typed back.
It still points to breathtaking naevity that they've gone and done the same thing in a fly infested shithole with no maternity unit, and no way back. They're good, those IS recruiters.
You know what the women get? Their husbands. How obvious is it that religion is man made?