I understand what you mean but at least Ronnie has been redeemed and so will Sharon but I can't see them redeeming Alfie it could be the end of the road for him!
Has Ronnie really been redeemed? I think you'll find an awful lot of people on here that won't let the baby swap thing go, not to mention her having killed Carl which is yet to come out. And it will do at some stage, you can count on that, probably when Womack shooses to leave again and I don't see her staying for decades.
I guess you could say it's a sign of crisis. Alfie always relied on his patter and scams and it usually worked for him. Now he's hit 50 and the patter falls on deaf ears and the scams backfire.
Perhaps also it didn't used to matter as much. He could move on more easily, find fresh 'targets' if things went wrong. Often it is easier to be successful when you're not under as much pressure and you're almost doing it for fun. When you are under pressure, you make mistakes. The difference between early hands in Poker with low stakes abnd your final 'all or nothing' hand.
Yes he always needed to get money for Nana and Spencer but not quite the same as having 3 children under the age of 4 and a sick wife depending on you.
I guess you could say it's a sign of crisis. Alfie always relied on his patter and scams and it usually worked for him. Now he's hit 50 and the patter falls on deaf ears and the scams backfire.
Too true!
He's desperate so he's panicking and clutching at straws but he just digs the hole he's in ever deeper!
They sometimes ask to see if you made yourself intentionally homeless, if you have there not obligated in some cases to help you, although with young children I think they are but there more likely suggest you get private housing, the Moons have never had social housing all we've seen is them private rent, the council house was in Mo's name, it never mentioned if Kat was on the rent book aswell, it should of been Mo going down there as well as Alfie to sort it out, it was rather a ill thought out and poorly researched scene.
Mo should have been the one going down there. She is smarter at blagging her way around the Social, would have sorted it out weeks ago and, as was proved by this scene, she is more articulate than Alfie.
I guess you could say it's a sign of crisis. Alfie always relied on his patter and scams and it usually worked for him. Now he's hit 50 and the patter falls on deaf ears and the scams backfire.
Actually it's quite dark when you think about it, very dark.
Watching his "cheeky chappy" act fail is quite excruciating.
Has Ronnie really been redeemed? I think you'll find an awful lot of people on here that won't let the baby swap thing go, not to mention her having killed Carl which is yet to come out. And it will do at some stage, you can count on that, probably when Womack shooses to leave again and I don't see her staying for decades.
I didn't like the baby swap storyline, Ronnie put Alfie and Kat through a lot of pain and anguish but I still do like her, she did try to take Tommy back but Kat arrived before she had chance and that made it awkward and then Jack arrived and there never seemed to be a right time and she swap babies just after James died and she was in turmoil and not thinking or seeing straight and later she did do her time and I know not everyone on here likes her but I don't think she gets the stick Alfie gets.
Has Ronnie really been redeemed? I think you'll find an awful lot of people on here that won't let the baby swap thing go, not to mention her having killed Carl which is yet to come out. And it will do at some stage, you can count on that, probably when Womack shooses to leave again and I don't see her staying for decades.
She served her time and she was grieving, Dot described it perfectly. However she has killed a man and that is going to catch up with her at some point. It seems to me that because of the baby swap some people portrayed her as worse than Stacey (for example), even before she became a murderer.
I didn't like the baby swap storyline, Ronnie put Alfie and Kat through a lot of pain and anguish but I still do like her, she did try to take Tommy back but Kat arrived before she had chance and that made it awkward and then Jack arrived and there never seemed to be a right time and she swap babies just after James died and she was in turmoil and not thinking or seeing straight and later she did do her time and I know not everyone on here likes her but I don't think she gets the stick Alfie gets.
I think she does person*lly. It might not be as many posters that are against her (though I don't actually think that many people were agsinst Alfie until the last year. Shane maybe but not Alfie) but the ones that do are very vocal. But she also has a lot of defenders so it's fairly evenly matched.
She served her time and she was grieving, Dot described it perfectly. However she has killed a man and that is going to catch up with her at some point. It seems to me that because of the baby swap some people portrayed her as worse than Stacey (for example), even before she became a murderer.
Yes, because it involved a child and no matter what the circumstances re her state of mind following Danielle and James' deaths, some people will never be able to get past the pain she put Tommy's parents through.
For many people, any crime involving children or rape is much, much worse than murder and there is no ambiguity involved at all. It is wrong, possibly evil, can never be forgiven and the culprit can never be redeemed.
However, it the murder victim was a 'bad' man, especially something involving child abuse or rape, then their killer's actions were understandable a,d they did the World a favour by getting rid of them so should be accepted back and allowed to start fresh.
Yes, because it involved a child and no matter what the circumstances re her state of mind following Danielle and James' deaths, some people will never be able to get past the pain she put Tommy's parents through.
For many people, any crime involving children or rape is much, much worse than murder and there is no ambiguity involved at all. It is wrong, possibly evil, can never be forgiven and the culprit can never be redeemed.
However, it the murder victim was a 'bad' man, especially something involving child abuse or rape, then their killer's actions were understandable a,d they did the World a favour by getting rid of them so should be accepted back and allowed to start fresh.
Yes, gut feeling without any rational thought. That is a problem with society in general.
The Nicole thing is actually the worst thing I think Alfie has done. I'm not excusing Arson, it was damned stupid and irresponsible as it could so easily have gone wrong and spread but I do understand and sympathise with his desperation and belief that it would be controlled and nobody would get hurt. Nicole had never done anything to him, as far as we know she was a nice person who hadn't done anything nasty to anyone and he conned her in one of the cruelest ways. He made her believe that he loved her and would marry her so he could take her money. That is despicable. But it was played for laughs and for us to go "ahhh, he loves Kat so much he won't sleep with somebody else even for 20k - isn't that sweet".
Exactly. He is a vile man who was conning an innocent wonen out of money but its ok because he's "Alfie bloody Moon". Also dont forget, a few years ago that Alfie and Kat both bullied Jean, a women with mental illness, into taking the blame for Mo's benefit fraud. He is a disgusting man and I cant believe anyone would ever defend him.
I didn't like the baby swap storyline, Ronnie put Alfie and Kat through a lot of pain and anguish but I still do like her, she did try to take Tommy back but Kat arrived before she had chance and that made it awkward and then Jack arrived and there never seemed to be a right time and she swap babies just after James died and she was in turmoil and not thinking or seeing straight and later she did do her time and I know not everyone on here likes her but I don't think she gets the stick Alfie gets.
Hahaha............so the fact that Ronnie made a mum and dad think that thier newborn baby was DEAD is ok because it would have been "awkward" to tell the truth ! Your views realy are priceless.
He was needlessly unkind to Masood and I can't believe he tried to bribe that estate agent and he made things worse at the benefits place by saying 'all sorts' and waffling too much.
I think they've misjudged the writing for Alfie. I'm all for a story that sees a character sink to the bottom, loosing everything along the way, where you (as a viewer) feel sad for their plight, but it helps if the character retains an ounce of likeability. I think this story would be different if Alfie wasn't disrespectful to the Masoods. He's rude to everyone, and not in a lashing out kind of way, in a self pitying, entitled sort of way, and those are not endearing traits in a character who we are supposed to feel sorry for.
The way he treated Masood last night was appalling. He still thinks he can spin a yarn to get what he wants, even if he's taken liberties; he has no time for the truth, which in this situation would have probably got Masood onside (he didn't need to admit to starting the fire, just the issues with not having a deposit for the house). I hated the way Shabnam cleaned up all of their mess (and there was a lot of mess - she cleaned that up in record time), with not even a thank you from Alfie. Masood was incredibly restraint in that scene, especially when Alfie threw his hospitality back in his face.
He even had the audacity to try to skip ahead in the queue, like no-one else there had problems. The way he took offence at being asked all of those questions, like it was an inconvenience, b/c he should be entitled to whatever he wants, just b/c. It's like he's inherited Bianca's sense of entitlement!
I do understand what they are trying to do with Alfie: he started a fire to claim on the insurance b/c he was broke, and now the insurance won't pay out, and he's racked with guilt b/c Kat got burned, and is struggling under the weight of that secret. He's extremely pressured, and all of his charm and tricks that used to get him out of a tight spot are failing him. But none of this is translating well in the writing, which is instead heavily focusing on him being seriously unlike-able and unpleasant, to the point where I don't feel anything for him but disdain.
Is it proper character led drama when they've turned a reasonably likeable character into an unlike-able, unpleasant person for the sake of the story? I'm all for a storyline that unravels a character in order to build him back up, but so far Alfie hasn't developed at all.
Another thing that really gets on my nerves about him is the way he forcefully tries to shout people down in a thuggish way not that he's ever been a bruiser in this programme.
He keeps on doing that shouting, going off one one "thing" and I've had enough of him, He should have gone to the council ages ago and should have understood why they need to see proof of identity as of course anyone can borrow a baby from someone they know and pretend its theirs to get housed.
That is true, she wouldn't stand for any nonsense by anyone including from Alfie but as Alfie has left the building from the Masood's, no reason to bring Zainab back just for that.
I think they've misjudged the writing for Alfie. I'm all for a story that sees a character sink to the bottom, loosing everything along the way, where you (as a viewer) feel sad for their plight, but it helps if the character retains an ounce of likeability. I think this story would be different if Alfie wasn't disrespectful to the Masoods. He's rude to everyone, and not in a lashing out kind of way, in a self pitying, entitled sort of way, and those are not endearing traits in a character who we are supposed to feel sorry for.
The way he treated Masood last night was appalling. He still thinks he can spin a yarn to get what he wants, even if he's taken liberties; he has no time for the truth, which in this situation would have probably got Masood onside (he didn't need to admit to starting the fire, just the issues with not having a deposit for the house). I hated the way Shabnam cleaned up all of their mess (and there was a lot of mess - she cleaned that up in record time), with not even a thank you from Alfie. Masood was incredibly restraint in that scene, especially when Alfie threw his hospitality back in his face.
He even had the audacity to try to skip ahead in the queue, like no-one else there had problems. The way he took offence at being asked all of those questions, like it was an inconvenience, b/c he should be entitled to whatever he wants, just b/c. It's like he's inherited Bianca's sense of entitlement!
I do understand what they are trying to do with Alfie: he started a fire to claim on the insurance b/c he was broke, and now the insurance won't pay out, and he's racked with guilt b/c Kat got burned, and is struggling under the weight of that secret. He's extremely pressured, and all of his charm and tricks that used to get him out of a tight spot are failing him. But none of this is translating well in the writing, which is instead heavily focusing on him being seriously unlike-able and unpleasant, to the point where I don't feel anything for him but disdain.
They are ruining Alfie with this awful material.
Is it proper character led drama when they've turned a reasonably likeable character into an unlike-able, unpleasant person for the sake of the story? I'm all for a storyline that unravels a character in order to build him back up, but so far Alfie hasn't developed at all.
I think they've misjudged the writing for Alfie. I'm all for a story that sees a character sink to the bottom, loosing everything along the way, where you (as a viewer) feel sad for their plight, but it helps if the character retains an ounce of likeability. I think this story would be different if Alfie wasn't disrespectful to the Masoods. He's rude to everyone, and not in a lashing out kind of way, in a self pitying, entitled sort of way, and those are not endearing traits in a character who we are supposed to feel sorry for.
The way he treated Masood last night was appalling. He still thinks he can spin a yarn to get what he wants, even if he's taken liberties; he has no time for the truth, which in this situation would have probably got Masood onside (he didn't need to admit to starting the fire, just the issues with not having a deposit for the house). I hated the way Shabnam cleaned up all of their mess (and there was a lot of mess - she cleaned that up in record time), with not even a thank you from Alfie. Masood was incredibly restraint in that scene, especially when Alfie threw his hospitality back in his face.
He even had the audacity to try to skip ahead in the queue, like no-one else there had problems. The way he took offence at being asked all of those questions, like it was an inconvenience, b/c he should be entitled to whatever he wants, just b/c. It's like he's inherited Bianca's sense of entitlement!
I do understand what they are trying to do with Alfie: he started a fire to claim on the insurance b/c he was broke, and now the insurance won't pay out, and he's racked with guilt b/c Kat got burned, and is struggling under the weight of that secret. He's extremely pressured, and all of his charm and tricks that used to get him out of a tight spot are failing him. But none of this is translating well in the writing, which is instead heavily focusing on him being seriously unlike-able and unpleasant, to the point where I don't feel anything for him but disdain.
They are ruining Alfie with this awful material.
Is it proper character led drama when they've turned a reasonably likeable character into an unlike-able, unpleasant person for the sake of the story? I'm all for a storyline that unravels a character in order to build him back up, but so far Alfie hasn't developed at all.
Personally I don't think it has come from nowhere. It has been developing for well over a year - possibly since Ronnie returned but certainly since splitting with Roxy and reconciling with Kat. Even his attitude to the staff and passengers on the plane when he went to stop Kat leaving was appalling. No considerationfor the fact that he was delaying all of those people, that he could have been a terroist so the staff needed him to leave. His life was more important, he's Alfie Moon and rules are there to be broken and anybidy that doesn't just let him get away with it is a horrible person that gets off on hurting his family. There have been countless selfish incidents since then, the throwing of the bust, selling all the Vic's stock at less than cost, taking Masood's bet knowing it was Tamwar's money, fleecing Nicole, emotionally blackmailing Terry to let him take the taxi out and on and on.
Even when things were going well for him he used to take advantage and then pull his puppy dog face when challenged over it - like falling into rent arrears at the Vic or going off on holiday without clearing it with Phil or organising proper cover.
Some people get nastier when they are on their uppers and Alfie, apparently is one of them.
I concur with Deschanel too. I often find with EE the writing doesn't make sense and I know how they want me to feel about certain characters or partnerships but it just doesn't translate. Something fails.
The thing is that Mo has basically given him an out. He doesn't have to tell anybody that the insurance won't pay out because he started the fire, just because they were storing commercial goods there. If he'd told Mas that he would have let him stay, even though it was clearly driving his own children away. But prideful alfie would never do such a thing - he'll just scam and then play hard done by when it doesn't work.
Hahaha............so the fact that Ronnie made a mum and dad think that thier newborn baby was DEAD is ok because it would have been "awkward" to tell the truth ! Your views realy are priceless.
I never said that!
I was one of the first people to be upset, Kat and Alfie are my favourites!
Comments
Has Ronnie really been redeemed? I think you'll find an awful lot of people on here that won't let the baby swap thing go, not to mention her having killed Carl which is yet to come out. And it will do at some stage, you can count on that, probably when Womack shooses to leave again and I don't see her staying for decades.
Perhaps also it didn't used to matter as much. He could move on more easily, find fresh 'targets' if things went wrong. Often it is easier to be successful when you're not under as much pressure and you're almost doing it for fun. When you are under pressure, you make mistakes. The difference between early hands in Poker with low stakes abnd your final 'all or nothing' hand.
Yes he always needed to get money for Nana and Spencer but not quite the same as having 3 children under the age of 4 and a sick wife depending on you.
Too true!
He's desperate so he's panicking and clutching at straws but he just digs the hole he's in ever deeper!
Mo should have been the one going down there. She is smarter at blagging her way around the Social, would have sorted it out weeks ago and, as was proved by this scene, she is more articulate than Alfie.
Actually it's quite dark when you think about it, very dark.
Watching his "cheeky chappy" act fail is quite excruciating.
That is what I'm finding interesting and also very sad. It is proper character led drama.
I didn't like the baby swap storyline, Ronnie put Alfie and Kat through a lot of pain and anguish but I still do like her, she did try to take Tommy back but Kat arrived before she had chance and that made it awkward and then Jack arrived and there never seemed to be a right time and she swap babies just after James died and she was in turmoil and not thinking or seeing straight and later she did do her time and I know not everyone on here likes her but I don't think she gets the stick Alfie gets.
She served her time and she was grieving, Dot described it perfectly. However she has killed a man and that is going to catch up with her at some point. It seems to me that because of the baby swap some people portrayed her as worse than Stacey (for example), even before she became a murderer.
I think she does person*lly. It might not be as many posters that are against her (though I don't actually think that many people were agsinst Alfie until the last year. Shane maybe but not Alfie) but the ones that do are very vocal. But she also has a lot of defenders so it's fairly evenly matched.
Yes, because it involved a child and no matter what the circumstances re her state of mind following Danielle and James' deaths, some people will never be able to get past the pain she put Tommy's parents through.
For many people, any crime involving children or rape is much, much worse than murder and there is no ambiguity involved at all. It is wrong, possibly evil, can never be forgiven and the culprit can never be redeemed.
However, it the murder victim was a 'bad' man, especially something involving child abuse or rape, then their killer's actions were understandable a,d they did the World a favour by getting rid of them so should be accepted back and allowed to start fresh.
Yes, gut feeling without any rational thought. That is a problem with society in general.
Exactly. He is a vile man who was conning an innocent wonen out of money but its ok because he's "Alfie bloody Moon". Also dont forget, a few years ago that Alfie and Kat both bullied Jean, a women with mental illness, into taking the blame for Mo's benefit fraud. He is a disgusting man and I cant believe anyone would ever defend him.
It is, and as KK says it is pretty interesting to watch, just a shame if you're a fan of the character.
Hahaha............so the fact that Ronnie made a mum and dad think that thier newborn baby was DEAD is ok because it would have been "awkward" to tell the truth ! Your views realy are priceless.
The way he treated Masood last night was appalling. He still thinks he can spin a yarn to get what he wants, even if he's taken liberties; he has no time for the truth, which in this situation would have probably got Masood onside (he didn't need to admit to starting the fire, just the issues with not having a deposit for the house). I hated the way Shabnam cleaned up all of their mess (and there was a lot of mess - she cleaned that up in record time), with not even a thank you from Alfie. Masood was incredibly restraint in that scene, especially when Alfie threw his hospitality back in his face.
He even had the audacity to try to skip ahead in the queue, like no-one else there had problems. The way he took offence at being asked all of those questions, like it was an inconvenience, b/c he should be entitled to whatever he wants, just b/c. It's like he's inherited Bianca's sense of entitlement!
I do understand what they are trying to do with Alfie: he started a fire to claim on the insurance b/c he was broke, and now the insurance won't pay out, and he's racked with guilt b/c Kat got burned, and is struggling under the weight of that secret. He's extremely pressured, and all of his charm and tricks that used to get him out of a tight spot are failing him. But none of this is translating well in the writing, which is instead heavily focusing on him being seriously unlike-able and unpleasant, to the point where I don't feel anything for him but disdain.
They are ruining Alfie with this awful material.
Is it proper character led drama when they've turned a reasonably likeable character into an unlike-able, unpleasant person for the sake of the story? I'm all for a storyline that unravels a character in order to build him back up, but so far Alfie hasn't developed at all.
He keeps on doing that shouting, going off one one "thing" and I've had enough of him, He should have gone to the council ages ago and should have understood why they need to see proof of identity as of course anyone can borrow a baby from someone they know and pretend its theirs to get housed.
That is true, she wouldn't stand for any nonsense by anyone including from Alfie but as Alfie has left the building from the Masood's, no reason to bring Zainab back just for that.
Spot on.
Personally I don't think it has come from nowhere. It has been developing for well over a year - possibly since Ronnie returned but certainly since splitting with Roxy and reconciling with Kat. Even his attitude to the staff and passengers on the plane when he went to stop Kat leaving was appalling. No considerationfor the fact that he was delaying all of those people, that he could have been a terroist so the staff needed him to leave. His life was more important, he's Alfie Moon and rules are there to be broken and anybidy that doesn't just let him get away with it is a horrible person that gets off on hurting his family. There have been countless selfish incidents since then, the throwing of the bust, selling all the Vic's stock at less than cost, taking Masood's bet knowing it was Tamwar's money, fleecing Nicole, emotionally blackmailing Terry to let him take the taxi out and on and on.
Even when things were going well for him he used to take advantage and then pull his puppy dog face when challenged over it - like falling into rent arrears at the Vic or going off on holiday without clearing it with Phil or organising proper cover.
Some people get nastier when they are on their uppers and Alfie, apparently is one of them.
I concur with Deschanel too. I often find with EE the writing doesn't make sense and I know how they want me to feel about certain characters or partnerships but it just doesn't translate. Something fails.
Edit: Kit Kat makes some excellent points too.
I never said that!
I was one of the first people to be upset, Kat and Alfie are my favourites!