"Why are you watching Doctor Who if you don't like it"

FiregazerFiregazer Posts: 5,888
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This is probably the most cliché and annoying thing I've seen on this thread.

Just because I negatively criticize an episode or complain about something I don't like, does not mean I in any way do not enjoy the show. I loved "Deep Breath". I liked the pacing and the general storyline and the way they include breathing, it's a wonderful change to what we have seen in the prior season. I made a post on here saying how I didn't like how the Doctor seems to show a lot of immaturity, despite the old age, and he is pretty much as bonkers as Smith.

"Into the Dalek" was the same. A very enjoyable episode and like something we've never seen before in the history of the show. The Dalek antibodies, great, something that makes sense in terms of science. Maybe I didn't like the pacing this time, but hey, the idea of the episode was unique and I praise Moffat for his idea.

Then there's "Robot of Sherwood". A historical setting, which is great as we haven't had a proper psuedo-historical episode since I can remember. The concept, again, great, the immature conflict between Robin and the Doctor? Not so much. And I thought it would be right to express my opinion on this, like everyone else has a right to do, without getting slandered for hating the show etc.

From what I've seen, "Listen" and "Time Heist" are going to be promising episodes. I may like them, I may dislike them, and I might express what I didn't like about them on here, but that in no way means that I don't like the episode, and I should b*gger off somewhere else!

It's three episodes in to a twelve-episode season. I'm not going to give up just because I disliked an episode, or merely simple factors of an episode.

How about we all respect each others opinions, and be done with it.

Comments

  • Alleycat666Alleycat666 Posts: 8,728
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    Good post Firegazer.

    I'm much the same as you in that I have liked and not-liked some bits of all 3 episodes so far.

    I've give up commenting much because I'm afraid of getting my head bitten off, or told I can't be a true fan (having watched since JP's doctor, I think I could be classified as such...).

    Just because there are things I don't like doesn't mean I hate the show.
  • adams66adams66 Posts: 3,945
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    If a poster dislikes an episode and explains why, or offers suggestions as to how it could've been improved, or simply offers a little more than 'It was crap' then that's brilliant. Your post above, Firegazer, offers your considered opinions and I look forward to reading your views on future episodes, even if I disagree with your conclusions. Such posts generate debate and discussion and are what forums like this need.

    But it's posts that baldly say things like 'I knew it would be rubbish and it was', or 'another appalling episode from Moffat, haven't liked anything he's done since he took over' without any reason, that prompt people, myself included, to wonder why the poster is bothering to watch at all.

    Some posters have come to the conclusion that the last few years of Doctor Who were not for them and then continue to watch despite already having made up their minds that they will continue to hate it.
    Some have decided that they will hate everything that Mark Gatiss has ever written or will ever write.
    Some insultingly accuse those who actually enjoy the current series to be sheep who'll watch anything that Moffat produces, ignoring the fact that people are actually capable of making up their own minds and that all people hold differing points of view.
    Some seem to relish every bit of bad news, every perceived drop in ratings, even inventing poor ratings figures, as if they genuinely want the show to fail - even though these same people claim to be fans of Doctor Who.

    It is these people who make me wonder why they are watching at all. They seem to be consumed with negativity, desperate to belittle and insult and criticise, sometimes in advance of the episodes actually being shown! These people seem to have already convinced themselves that today's Doctor Who is appalling rubbish and seem incapable of watching with an open mind, or of offering anything positive or encouraging.

    Of course Doctor Who is not faultless. Moffat's tenure as producer has been, in my view, rather patchy and despite being impressed with Capaldi as the Doctor, I'm still not fully convinced by this series. I wish PC would lighten up a bit, as he seems slightly too stern and doesn't have that twinkle in his eye that the Doctor ought to have in my opinion. But I retain an open mind, I'll happily watch the continuing series and I'll try to find positives in the show. I sincerely hope that I never become as negative, dismissive, snide and mealy mouthed as some of the posters here.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,273
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    adams66 wrote: »
    If a poster dislikes an episode and explains why, or offers suggestions as to how it could've been improved, or simply offers a little more than 'It was crap' then that's brilliant. Your post above, Firegazer, offers your considered opinions and I look forward to reading your views on future episodes, even if I disagree with your conclusions. Such posts generate debate and discussion and are what forums like this need.

    But it's posts that baldly say things like 'I knew it would be rubbish and it was', or 'another appalling episode from Moffat, haven't liked anything he's done since he took over' without any reason, that prompt people, myself included, to wonder why the poster is bothering to watch at all.

    Some posters have come to the conclusion that the last few years of Doctor Who were not for them and then continue to watch despite already having made up their minds that they will continue to hate it.
    Some have decided that they will hate everything that Mark Gatiss has ever written or will ever write.
    Some insultingly accuse those who actually enjoy the current series to be sheep who'll watch anything that Moffat produces, ignoring the fact that people are actually capable of making up their own minds and that all people hold differing points of view.
    Some seem to relish every bit of bad news, every perceived drop in ratings, even inventing poor ratings figures, as if they genuinely want the show to fail - even though these same people claim to be fans of Doctor Who.

    It is these people who make me wonder why they are watching at all. They seem to be consumed with negativity, desperate to belittle and insult and criticise, sometimes in advance of the episodes actually being shown! These people seem to have already convinced themselves that today's Doctor Who is appalling rubbish and seem incapable of watching with an open mind, or of offering anything positive or encouraging.

    Of course Doctor Who is not faultless. Moffat's tenure as producer has been, in my view, rather patchy and despite being impressed with Capaldi as the Doctor, I'm still not fully convinced by this series. I wish PC would lighten up a bit, as he seems slightly too stern and doesn't have that twinkle in his eye that the Doctor ought to have in my opinion. But I retain an open mind, I'll happily watch the continuing series and I'll try to find positives in the show. I sincerely hope that I never become as negative, dismissive, snide and mealy mouthed as some of the posters here.

    I agree, the "if you don't like the show then why watch it" comments come from the fact there are certain posters who are doomsayers foretelling the doom of the show based on nothing other than their opinion or the opinion they want to put out. It is ridiculous to carry on watching a show that you don't like just because its funny winding people up. The truth is even the most loyal fan is going to at least not like some episodes and that's fine as long as you back it up. I like that Capaldi's Doctor is a bit grumpy and it is annoying how many people seem to forget that William Hartnel, Patrick Troughton and even Jon Pertwee were essentially grumpy old men. Hartnell in particular was grumpy and yet the show worked (which is evident by the fact it is still running today). Yes the show evolved over time and we've had younger, fresher Doctors but now we have an older Doctor to have him act younger and fresher is ridiculous and I don't get why people don't like it. :confused:
  • TheSilentFezTheSilentFez Posts: 11,103
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    Good post.
    I can actually heavily criticise some episodes, but still actually enjoy them. Doctor Who is my favourite television show and I don't expect it to be high class drama every week. I love the show because I'm invested in the fandom and because I find it enjoyable to watch. When we get a mediocre episode, I just enjoy it and perhaps criticise it a little later. When we get an episode which is high class drama, even better! If we get an episode I don't enjoy, I criticise it and move on with my life.

    However, there are some people who've hated every minute of the show for years and who criticise and complain about how much they hated it after every single episode without fail.
    These are the sort of people I'd ask "why the hell are you still watching the show if you hate it so much?"

    What I don't appreciate is accusations of being "easily pleased" being thrown around by certain forum members who arrogantly believe their critical analysis to be superior to anyone else's. Personally, I don't expect every episode to be a masterpiece which stands up to all critical scrutiny and I don't believe this attitude makes me an "easily pleased sheep" or any less of a fan.
  • CD93CD93 Posts: 13,939
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    Good post.
    I can actually heavily criticise some episodes, but still actually enjoy them. Doctor Who is my favourite television show and I don't expect it to be high class drama every week. I love the show because I'm invested in the fandom and because I find it enjoyable to watch. When we get a mediocre episode, I just enjoy it and perhaps criticise it a little later. When we get an episode which is high class drama, even better! If we get an episode I don't enjoy, I criticise it and move on with my life.

    However, there are some people who've hated every minute of the show for years and who criticise and complain about how much they hated it after every single episode without fail.
    These are the sort of people I'd ask "why the hell are you still watching the show if you hate it so much?"

    What I don't appreciate is accusations of being "easily pleased" being thrown around by certain forum members who arrogantly believe their critical analysis to be superior to anyone else's. Personally, I don't expect every episode to be a masterpiece which stands up to all critical scrutiny and I don't believe this attitude makes me an "easily pleased sheep" or any less of a fan.

    +1

    That is all.
  • jtnorthjtnorth Posts: 5,081
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    Great post. Thank you for writing it. If you come on a discussion forum for a TV programme you should be able to discuss it, positive or negative, without people trying to shut you up, by calling you not a proper fan or by calling you a sheep.

    The thing with DW is that every week is different, much more than most shows. If you hated last Saturday's, it doesn't mean you won't love next week's and vice versa. So it is a show that's particularly difficult to argue 'if you don't like it, don't watch it,' because even if you aren't in tune with a particular storyline or writer, you never know that you won't love the next story.

    I struggle with the way Moffat has taken the programme, even though I love Sherlock and most of his other shows and don't dislike him as a person at all. I did stop the sixth series - turned off in the Impossible Astronaut - it felt horrible to be so out of kilter with the show, to just be sitting there annoyed by it all. I didn't come back till Amy and Rory left. But it's funny - most TV I can just give up and never think of it again if I've gone off it, but it makes me really sad to think DW is on and I'm not watching it. I can't say how much I miss loving every bit of it, as I used to do. When something changes, like a new writer or a new actor, I think maybe I'll love it again now and I'm so hopeful. I'm happy for the people who are loving it with this writing team, but if I'm not I want to be able to say why and discuss why and get it out of my system, without being told to go away.
  • saladfingers81saladfingers81 Posts: 11,301
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    I wouldn't disagree with most of the original post. But the truth is no one tells people who have issues or criticism of the show to go away and stop watching. Not at all. Its those who make the very act of viewing the show sound like a torturous act of endurance that they are forced to masochistically subject themselves to that I think its a fairly fair point to ask 'why watch then'? Because why would you. And hear in talking about those that just trot out the same 'worst episode ever' drivel and call for Moffats head week after week with pithy one line wind up posts that never attempt to explain or discuss. Just to annoy. Its an utter myth that this forum is dominated by some blinkered pro Moffat Happiness Patrol. I dislike alot about New Who. But I still love it. That's where most people on this forum fall or somewhere roundabout surely? Of course its not perfect. It shouldn't be lavished with praise just for existing. But no one does that. What we do get at the moment when you click on the front page is a forum dominated by doom mongers and serial complainers. This is the truth. And its starting to get tiresome.

    I believe you were criticised not for disliking the show but for having to start a new thread to express every single opinion instead of joining in with the episode threads. A fair point I feel and one that you have failed to respond to. All you've done with this thread is move the goal posts.
  • daveyboy7472daveyboy7472 Posts: 16,352
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    I agree with a lot of the above posts, especially the OP's, so feel no need to repeat it.

    What I will say, though(and this is where I slightly disagree with saladfingers,(though the rest of his post is spot on) is that there is a very small minority who just don't seem to tolerate the fact that people dislike something they enjoy.

    I'll confess to something now, it's that minority who are the reason I used to criticise Series 5 so rigorously. The 'I love it so you should love it too' brigade really annoyed me. The more they posted, I the more I counter-posted to make a point. I don't bother now, as I feel I've repeated myself enough.

    I don't on the whole have a problem with people who love Series 5. Most people on here make a good case for why they like it(as well as later Series) and that's cool. I'm glad they like it, in the same way I like Series 2 and Series 4. I just wish I could like it too.

    There's also the 'I don't like it so you shouldn't either.' brigade which seems to have become prominent since the start of the this Series. Off course, the trolls don't help on that front but last week, as I said on the other thread last night, was just full of negativity and that never used to be the case when I first joined this forum.

    Whatever I think of Doctor Who right now, I will never, ever stop watching it. It's never been that bad I've wanted to stop watching it, every episode has something to enjoy in it even if the episode on the whole is rather poor. (Yes, including Love and Monsters, Rings of Athaken and certain stories of the McCoy Era!:D)

    :)
  • TheSilentFezTheSilentFez Posts: 11,103
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    What I will say, though(and this is where I slightly disagree with saladfingers,(though the rest of his post is spot on) is that there is a very small minority who just don't seem to tolerate the fact that people dislike something they enjoy.

    I understand continuing to watch a show you used to love, but no longer find as enjoyable in the hope that it gets better... but some people do make out that Doctor Who is a torture they must masochistically endure every week and seem to angrily complain about it without fail. They act like each and every episode is a crime against humanity and a take it as a personal insult.

    When you come across someone like this who so clearly hates the show with a burning passion, you can't help but wonder why they haven't given up and why they continue to subject themselves to something which makes them so angry.
    Whatever I think of Doctor Who right now, I will never, ever stop watching it. It's never been that bad I've wanted to stop watching it, every episode has something to enjoy in it even if the episode on the whole is rather poor. (Yes, including Love and Monsters, Rings of Athaken and certain stories of the McCoy Era!:D)

    This is how I feel. I think there's some good to be found in every episode. Some are clearly much harder than others to enjoy, but at the end of the day I'd rather watch Doctor Who at its worse than the likes of The XFactor (or anything on ITV for that matter), Big Brother and much of the other reality rubbish which pervades so much of our society.

    (...actually this has given me the idea for a new thread)
  • FiregazerFiregazer Posts: 5,888
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    jtnorth wrote: »
    I struggle with the way Moffat has taken the programme, even though I love Sherlock and most of his other shows and don't dislike him as a person at all. I did stop the sixth series - turned off in the Impossible Astronaut - it felt horrible to be so out of kilter with the show, to just be sitting there annoyed by it all. I didn't come back till Amy and Rory left..

    I have felt like that a lot of times. But I'd still keep watching. I liked "The Impossible Astronaut". I didn't like "The Curse of the Black Spot". But then I liked "The Doctor's Wife". The series was full of spectacularly written episodes. "Night Terrors" was creepily amazing. "The Girl Who Waited" reduced me to tears.

    There's going to be episodes that I don't like. But I carry on because it's one of my favorite shows. I stopped watching "Robot of Sherwood" halfway through. But I'll still watch "Listen". Moffat has a way of writing disappointing scripts and thinking up ridiculous story arcs and I would love for someone else to take over, but I'm not dwelling on that.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,273
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    I understand continuing to watch a show you used to love, but no longer find as enjoyable in the hope that it gets better... but some people do make out that Doctor Who is a torture they must masochistically endure every week and seem to angrily complain about it without fail. They act like each and every episode is a crime against humanity and a take it as a personal insult.

    When you come across someone like this who so clearly hates the show with a burning passion, you can't help but wonder why they haven't given up and why they continue to subject themselves to something which makes them so angry.

    This is how I feel. I think there's some good to be found in every episode. Some are clearly much harder than others to enjoy, but at the end of the day I'd rather watch Doctor Who at its worse than the likes of The XFactor (or anything on ITV for that matter), Big Brother and much of the other reality rubbish which pervades so much of our society.

    (...actually this has given me the idea for a new thread)

    I agree here mostly, but I disagree with there being merit in some episodes, Fear her being a prime example in my head of an episode with no merit. But one episode does not represent a series or even an entire show.
  • MinkytheDogMinkytheDog Posts: 5,658
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    Fear her being a prime example in my head of an episode with no merit.

    It had the Doctor giving a Vulcan salute
  • saladfingers81saladfingers81 Posts: 11,301
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    I agree with a lot of the above posts, especially the OP's, so feel no need to repeat it.

    What I will say, though(and this is where I slightly disagree with saladfingers,(though the rest of his post is spot on) is that there is a very small minority who just don't seem to tolerate the fact that people dislike something they enjoy.

    I'll confess to something now, it's that minority who are the reason I used to criticise Series 5 so rigorously. The 'I love it so you should love it too' brigade really annoyed me. The more they posted, I the more I counter-posted to make a point. I don't bother now, as I feel I've repeated myself enough.

    I don't on the whole have a problem with people who love Series 5. Most people on here make a good case for why they like it(as well as later Series) and that's cool. I'm glad they like it, in the same way I like Series 2 and Series 4. I just wish I could like it too.

    There's also the 'I don't like it so you shouldn't either.' brigade which seems to have become prominent since the start of the this Series. Off course, the trolls don't help on that front but last week, as I said on the other thread last night, was just full of negativity and that never used to be the case when I first joined this forum.

    Whatever I think of Doctor Who right now, I will never, ever stop watching it. It's never been that bad I've wanted to stop watching it, every episode has something to enjoy in it even if the episode on the whole is rather poor. (Yes, including Love and Monsters, Rings of Athaken and certain stories of the McCoy Era!:D)

    :)

    I see your point. I actually find those that just unwaveringly love everything about the show as odd as those who despise it so much. Its never going to be perfect. I suppose I prefer to focus on the positives and so this can make it appear that I am just a fanboy. I'm not. I just don't feel the need to dwell on the bad things.

    I just don't agree that I've seem any attempt to silence the doubters or those that make interesting critiques of the show. People just get a bit weary of those that call for cancellation or make false claims about viewing figures etc in what seems to be a bizarre effort to claim some sort of consensus. I hope the day never comes when I find nothing to enjoy about Doctor Who but should it ever I think i would just accept it and quietly move on. Not for me anymore.

    I used to love The Simpsons. I fell out of love with it. So I either avoid it or watch those episodes I do enjoy. I don't go onto fan forums and call for it to be cancelled in the arrogant notion that because I no longer enjoy it then well no one else can. I certainly wouldn't be so rude as to claim those that still do are simple minded and easily pleased for doing so. I would just leave it alone.

    Which makes me wonder about alot of those that post such angry criticism. Maybe they don't hate it so much. Something must keep bringing them back. Because surely there are better things to do than spend 45 minutes being angry and then expanding on that anger on the internet for a week afterwards.
  • Michael_EveMichael_Eve Posts: 14,424
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    I honestly don't think there is a Who story with absolutely no merit in any way or form whatsoever, although some have come a bit close for me. Certain stories or eras or Doctors aren't going to float your boat, but agree with a lot of the above posts. Doctor Who at it's worst is still better than most things on TV at present IMO. No production team is actively trying to make bad telly or wind people up!

    Think I got pulled into the negativity a bit over the weekend, so will take a step back. But it's interesting that a few posters are predicting all sorts of reactions to this Saturday's episode!

    All opinions are valid, but don't think you should be disparaging or personal if people's don't agree with yours. That's not rocket science..

    It's Astrophysics. ;-)
  • saladfingers81saladfingers81 Posts: 11,301
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    I agree here mostly, but I disagree with there being merit in some episodes, Fear her being a prime example in my head of an episode with no merit. But one episode does not represent a series or even an entire show.

    I could count on one hand those episodes with zero merit. Fear Her, Doctors Daughter...etc.

    Even those I despise such as The Wedding of River Song have something worthy whether it be a scene or an effect or a line or a performance. Most have something.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,273
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    I could count on one hand those episodes with zero merit. Fear Her, Doctors Daughter...etc.

    Even those I despise such as The Wedding of River Song have something worthy whether it be a scene or an effect or a line or a performance. Most have something.

    I realise that to an extent the no merit comment is subjective and I agree that there are few episodes with no merit but I do think there are some that have no redeeming features at all and in my mind Fear Her is one such episode. I didn't mind the Doctor's Daughter that much at all and even though I thought The Wedding of River Song was very similar to the series 5 finale I still enjoyed it.
  • daveyboy7472daveyboy7472 Posts: 16,352
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    I see your point. I actually find those that just unwaveringly love everything about the show as odd as those who despise it so much. Its never going to be perfect. I suppose I prefer to focus on the positives and so this can make it appear that I am just a fanboy. I'm not. I just don't feel the need to dwell on the bad things.

    I just don't agree that I've seem any attempt to silence the doubters or those that make interesting critiques of the show. People just get a bit weary of those that call for cancellation or make false claims about viewing figures etc in what seems to be a bizarre effort to claim some sort of consensus. I hope the day never comes when I find nothing to enjoy about Doctor Who but should it ever I think i would just accept it and quietly move on. Not for me anymore.

    I used to love The Simpsons. I fell out of love with it. So I either avoid it or watch those episodes I do enjoy. I don't go onto fan forums and call for it to be cancelled in the arrogant notion that because I no longer enjoy it then well no one else can. I certainly wouldn't be so rude as to claim those that still do are simple minded and easily pleased for doing so. I would just leave it alone.

    Which makes me wonder about alot of those that post such angry criticism. Maybe they don't hate it so much. Something must keep bringing them back. Because surely there are better things to do than spend 45 minutes being angry and then expanding on that anger on the internet for a week afterwards.

    It's hard to pinpoint the exact reason people get so angry about the show really. I understand people will always have a beef about certain aspects of the show and I can understand that to degree, the exile scenario in Classic Who has always been a major dislike of mine for example. However, not to such a degree that I come on here in an angry rant about it, though I like to make my dislike of that particular format well known. (But that's for another thread).

    It could also be people are passionate and like to see the show always doing well and perhaps their passion for the show makes it hard for them to accept it being criticised any in anyway(hence the intolerance I mentioned in my previous post)

    One other reason which has been discussed before is that some viewers are New Who fans only and are perhaps not used to the many changes of format and Doctors that happened in Classic Who. It's interesting to note that all discussions about Classic Who are always polite and well mannered no matter how much people disagree. I think Season 7 is always a topic that provokes much debate, it's a love it or hate it Season but the debate never gets anywhere near as ferocious as it does with New Who.

    And if I could just use the exile scenario as a basis for my argument about why I stick with the show is because it didn't last. It's a part of the Classic Series I dislike but you know once you get to Tom Baker the whole show changes and it constantly evolves through the 4th Doctor Era. This period we're going through right now won't last forever either, a big change will come sooner or later and doubtlessly more negative threads to go with it as well......

    I also agree with your point about shows like The Simpsons which never evolve much. I love shows that change as they go along. The Avengers is another one that has constant changes in format and and female leads(Only Steed is a constant but his character does evolve with each change of sidekick) That's why I watch fewer and fewer reality shows as they stay the same year on year in their basic format(Though some changes do occur)

    That's the beauty of Doctor Who. You know it will never stay the same for too long and that's why I like it so much. If it still had exactly the same format as when Hartnell was doing it, I'd have switched off years ago.

    :)
  • Lord SmexyLord Smexy Posts: 2,842
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    I find that because, having Asperger's, focusing obsessively on a lot on my favourite shows, movies, books, etc. helps reduce stress, and with Doctor Who back at the moment, I've got something I can focus a lot. I joined this forum because I thought it would be nice to be able to discuss one of my favourite TV shows with other people, see different points of view and opinions and be able to express my thoughts on the show since none of my friends really watch it that much.

    Unfortunately, while I've had some good discussions, I've found a lot of disappointment in that there's an off putting amount of negativity and arrogance in some members, and a lot of people get belittled for having a differing opinion. There are a lot of people who don't even seem to care for Doctor Who at all, they merely enjoy bashing everything they can about it. There's quite a few pointless topics where people state their opinion in the first post, which would have fitted right in the pinned episode threads. And, unfortunately, I can count myself among the people who have been told they are easily pleased (I believe it was because I used the words 'Moffat classic' together).

    So yes, I think there are some people who do need to stop coming here if they're just going to criticise and hate on people who don't share their opinion, and telling some of them to just stop watching the show seems a valid retort to me. People who dislike the current show, but state it as an opinion and give a fair point as to what they dislike, while accepting that some people will disagree but not insulting them for it, do not apply to this, at all. Having your own thoughts on the show is what the forums are for. However, some people disappointingly seem to think that others aren't capable of forming their own independent opinions without it being declared as 'being a fanboy, sheep' etc.
  • saladfingers81saladfingers81 Posts: 11,301
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    Lord Smexy wrote: »
    I find that because, having Asperger's, focusing obsessively on a lot on my favourite shows, movies, books, etc. helps reduce stress, and with Doctor Who back at the moment, I've got something I can focus a lot. I joined this forum because I thought it would be nice to be able to discuss one of my favourite TV shows with other people, see different points of view and opinions and be able to express my thoughts on the show since none of my friends really watch it that much.

    Unfortunately, while I've had some good discussions, I've found a lot of disappointment in that there's an off putting amount of negativity and arrogance in some members, and a lot of people get belittled for having a differing opinion. There are a lot of people who don't even seem to care for Doctor Who at all, they merely enjoy bashing everything they can about it. There's quite a few pointless topics where people state their opinion in the first post, which would have fitted right in the pinned episode threads. And, unfortunately, I can count myself among the people who have been told they are easily pleased (I believe it was because I used the words 'Moffat classic' together).

    So yes, I think there are some people who do need to stop coming here if they're just going to criticise and hate on people who don't share their opinion, and telling some of them to just stop watching the show seems a valid retort to me. People who dislike the current show, but state it as an opinion and give a fair point as to what they dislike, while accepting that some people will disagree but not insulting them for it, do not apply to this, at all. Having your own thoughts on the show is what the forums are for. However, some people disappointingly seem to think that others aren't capable of forming their own independent opinions without it being declared as 'being a fanboy, sheep' etc.

    all of this! I've been called a fanboy and yet I could write a thousand posts about how much S6 let me down and how Matts doctor was brilliant but ill served by the way he was written. I just don't focus on that especially when we have an amazing new doctor and series. And also when Matts era was good it was sensational. I don't expect every episode to be a masterpiece. No show ever is.
  • The WizardThe Wizard Posts: 11,071
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    I watch because I have been a fan of the show since I was a child but certain incarnations I've disliked but still stuck by the show because I know it has the ability to change and get better. I haven't enjoyed Moffats offerings at all. Characters are weak and disinteresting, stories are ridiculous to the point it's become more like a children's programme and story arcs are convoluted. I watch it still but most weeks I find myself bored and switching off or it loses my attention and I end up sitting on my phone surfing the net while it drones on in the background.

    I was looking forward to Capaldi being a more serious, darker Who but so far he's hamming it up like a comedy pantomime villain.
  • codename_47codename_47 Posts: 9,682
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    How do I know if I'm going to like it or not until I watch it?

    Anyway the show has potential. The concept is a wide one and almost literally anything can happen in that 45 minutes. Earth Bound historial, future sci-fi, comedy romp, dark, spine chilling drama...etc
    It hurts when the show fails to live up to that potential and amazes us when it once again suprasses it.

    It has runs of quality, eras where the hit ratio is better than others, but it's still the Doctor. We still have a connection with the character even if he's not being presented exactly as we would like at any one moment.
    But even in an era which isn't to your taste there's usually something to watch for. The Doctor might remember something you've seen before. There might be a guest star you really want to see. Or the Daleks might show up. They're always good ;)
  • Irma BuntIrma Bunt Posts: 1,847
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    I agree with a lot of the above posts, especially the OP's, so feel no need to repeat it.

    What I will say, though(and this is where I slightly disagree with saladfingers,(though the rest of his post is spot on) is that there is a very small minority who just don't seem to tolerate the fact that people dislike something they enjoy.

    I'll confess to something now, it's that minority who are the reason I used to criticise Series 5 so rigorously. The 'I love it so you should love it too' brigade really annoyed me. The more they posted, I the more I counter-posted to make a point. I don't bother now, as I feel I've repeated myself enough.

    I don't on the whole have a problem with people who love Series 5. Most people on here make a good case for why they like it(as well as later Series) and that's cool. I'm glad they like it, in the same way I like Series 2 and Series 4. I just wish I could like it too.

    There's also the 'I don't like it so you shouldn't either.' brigade which seems to have become prominent since the start of the this Series. Off course, the trolls don't help on that front but last week, as I said on the other thread last night, was just full of negativity and that never used to be the case when I first joined this forum.

    Whatever I think of Doctor Who right now, I will never, ever stop watching it. It's never been that bad I've wanted to stop watching it, every episode has something to enjoy in it even if the episode on the whole is rather poor. (Yes, including Love and Monsters, Rings of Athaken and certain stories of the McCoy Era!:D)

    :)


    I'm absolutely with you on this one. I loathed the McCoy era, but I never stopped watching in the (vain) hope it would somehow get better. As for the Moffat era, I happen to think he's a better writer than a showrunner. He has fantastic ideas, but a much looser grasp of structure. He needs a strong script editor who knows when to let him have his head, and when to rein him in. For me, the show has felt a little schizophrenic since SM took over. And unlike many on here, I disliked much of Season 5, and preferred Season 7. I preferred Tennant to Smith - there, I've said it - but then I also prefer Capaldi to Smith. I also liked this week's ep far more than the opening two - and I quite liked those, too. It's all subjective.
  • Irma BuntIrma Bunt Posts: 1,847
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    It's hard to pinpoint the exact reason people get so angry about the show really. I understand people will always have a beef about certain aspects of the show and I can understand that to degree, the exile scenario in Classic Who has always been a major dislike of mine for example. However, not to such a degree that I come on here in an angry rant about it, though I like to make my dislike of that particular format well known. (But that's for another thread).

    It could also be people are passionate and like to see the show always doing well and perhaps their passion for the show makes it hard for them to accept it being criticised any in anyway(hence the intolerance I mentioned in my previous post)

    One other reason which has been discussed before is that some viewers are New Who fans only and are perhaps not used to the many changes of format and Doctors that happened in Classic Who. It's interesting to note that all discussions about Classic Who are always polite and well mannered no matter how much people disagree. I think Season 7 is always a topic that provokes much debate, it's a love it or hate it Season but the debate never gets anywhere near as ferocious as it does with New Who.

    And if I could just use the exile scenario as a basis for my argument about why I stick with the show is because it didn't last. It's a part of the Classic Series I dislike but you know once you get to Tom Baker the whole show changes and it constantly evolves through the 4th Doctor Era. This period we're going through right now won't last forever either, a big change will come sooner or later and doubtlessly more negative threads to go with it as well......

    I also agree with your point about shows like The Simpsons which never evolve much. I love shows that change as they go along. The Avengers is another one that has constant changes in format and and female leads(Only Steed is a constant but his character does evolve with each change of sidekick) That's why I watch fewer and fewer reality shows as they stay the same year on year in their basic format(Though some changes do occur)

    That's the beauty of Doctor Who. You know it will never stay the same for too long and that's why I like it so much. If it still had exactly the same format as when Hartnell was doing it, I'd have switched off years ago.

    :)

    And another great post. We fundamentally disagree on the exile format and have discussed it many times. I happen to think Pertwee's first season was, episode for episode, the strongest ever Classic Who season. I know you don't, but you've always politely respected my opinion.
  • FiregazerFiregazer Posts: 5,888
    Forum Member
    How do I know if I'm going to like it or not until I watch it?

    Anyway the show has potential. The concept is a wide one and almost literally anything can happen in that 45 minutes. Earth Bound historial, future sci-fi, comedy romp, dark, spine chilling drama...etc
    It hurts when the show fails to live up to that potential and amazes us when it once again suprasses it.

    It has runs of quality, eras where the hit ratio is better than others, but it's still the Doctor. We still have a connection with the character even if he's not being presented exactly as we would like at any one moment.
    But even in an era which isn't to your taste there's usually something to watch for. The Doctor might remember something you've seen before. There might be a guest star you really want to see. Or the Daleks might show up. They're always good ;)

    My point exactly!
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