Young, Educated and Desperate

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,845
Forum Member
✭✭✭
Young and Educated in Europe, but Desperate for Jobs
By LIZ ALDERMAN
Published: November 15, 2013
THE NEW YORK TIMES

MADRID — Alba Méndez, a 24-year-old with a master’s degree in sociology, sprang out of bed nervously one recent morning, carefully put on makeup and styled her hair. Her thin hands trembled as she clutched her résumé on her way out of the tiny room where a friend allows her to stay rent free.

She had an interview that day for a job at a supermarket. It was nothing like the kind of professional career she thought she would have after finishing her education. But it was a rare flicker of opportunity after a series of temporary positions, applications that went nowhere and employers who increasingly demanded that young people work long, unpaid stretches just to be considered for something permanent.

“We’re in a situation that is beyond our control,” Ms. Méndez said. “But that doesn’t stop the feelings of guilt. On the bad days, it’s really hard to get out of bed. I ask myself, ‘What did I do wrong?'"

The question is being asked by millions of young Europeans. Five years after the economic crisis struck the Continent, youth unemployment has climbed to staggering levels in many countries: in September, 56 percent in Spain for those 24 and younger, 57 percent in Greece, 40 percent in Italy, 37 percent in Portugal and 28 percent in Ireland. For people 25 to 30, the rates are half to two-thirds as high and rising.

Those are Great Depression-like rates of unemployment, and there is no sign that European economies, still barely emerging from recession, are about to generate the jobs necessary to bring those Europeans into the work force soon, perhaps in their lifetimes.

Read More: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/16/world/europe/youth-unemployement-in-europe.html?hp&_r=0

I think by the time the economy recovers, a new generation would have emerged and this generation will be left behind.
«13

Comments

  • nomad2kingnomad2king Posts: 8,415
    Forum Member
    With a degree in Sociology, expected a professional career as what?
  • jenziejenzie Posts: 20,821
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    more like an ego trip

    OH WOE IS ME
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,916
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    nomad2king wrote: »
    With a degree in Sociology, expected a professional career as what?

    Seriously?
    ... jobs in social services, education, criminal justice, welfare services, government, counselling, charities and the voluntary sector. They include charity fundraiser, community development worker, counsellor, lecturer, housing officer, teacher, probation officer, social researcher, social worker and welfare rights adviser. There are a range of specific abilities and skills associated with a degree in sociology but there are also wider transferable skills that you can develop. The UK Quality Assurance Agency lists these. The specific skills include ability to judge and evaluate evidence; understanding the complexity and diversity of situations, including organisations themselves; collecting information; making reasoned and logical arguments. Sociology students will also develop a wider set of transferable skills like team-working; verbal communication skills; showing initiative; being able to work in a way that is supportive of equality and diversity in the workplace.
  • nomad2kingnomad2king Posts: 8,415
    Forum Member
    dotty1 wrote: »
    Seriously?
    How many of them need Sociology? How many of those are purely voluntary, ie don't pay. Even more relevant is, how many of those career positions exist outside the UK? How many that are left need additional training eg teaching of sociology, or need actual real world experience. Not really that much that is transferable..
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,916
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    nomad2king wrote: »
    How many of them need Sociology? How many of those are purely voluntary, ie don't pay. Even more relevant is, how many of those career positions exist outside the UK? How many that are left need additional training eg teaching of sociology, or need actual real world experience. Not really that much that is transferable..

    The point is that they don't need sociology, but the skills that a sociology degree teaches are useful in many diverse areas, from public sector, welfare and government to the private sector e.g. market research. It is a good 'all round' degree that teaches useful skills, that are absolutely transferable, without pigeonholing people and restricting their options to a specific area. You could read the info in that link, or the one I provided earlier as they spell out my points in more detail.

    As for 'need additional training' - you'd be hard pressed to find any 'academic' subject which leads directly to teaching.
  • smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
    Forum Member
    dotty1 wrote: »
    The point is that they don't need sociology, but the skills that a sociology degree teaches are useful in many diverse areas, from public sector, welfare and government to the private sector e.g. market research. It is a good 'all round' degree that teaches useful skills, that are absolutely transferable, without pigeonholing people and restricting their options to a specific area. You could read the info in that link, or the one I provided earlier as they spell my points out in more detail.

    As for 'need additional training' - you'd be hard pressed to find any 'academic' subject which leads directly to teaching.

    So just the same as any degree with indirect applications. Can't think of anything sociology leads to directly.
  • smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
    Forum Member
    Young and Educated in Europe, but Desperate for Jobs
    By LIZ ALDERMAN
    Published: November 15, 2013
    THE NEW YORK TIMES

    MADRID — Alba Méndez, a 24-year-old with a master’s degree in sociology, sprang out of bed nervously one recent morning, carefully put on makeup and styled her hair. Her thin hands trembled as she clutched her résumé on her way out of the tiny room where a friend allows her to stay rent free.

    She had an interview that day for a job at a supermarket. It was nothing like the kind of professional career she thought she would have after finishing her education. But it was a rare flicker of opportunity after a series of temporary positions, applications that went nowhere and employers who increasingly demanded that young people work long, unpaid stretches just to be considered for something permanent.

    “We’re in a situation that is beyond our control,” Ms. Méndez said. “But that doesn’t stop the feelings of guilt. On the bad days, it’s really hard to get out of bed. I ask myself, ‘What did I do wrong?'"

    The question is being asked by millions of young Europeans. Five years after the economic crisis struck the Continent, youth unemployment has climbed to staggering levels in many countries: in September, 56 percent in Spain for those 24 and younger, 57 percent in Greece, 40 percent in Italy, 37 percent in Portugal and 28 percent in Ireland. For people 25 to 30, the rates are half to two-thirds as high and rising.

    Those are Great Depression-like rates of unemployment, and there is no sign that European economies, still barely emerging from recession, are about to generate the jobs necessary to bring those Europeans into the work force soon, perhaps in their lifetimes.

    Read More: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/16/world/europe/youth-unemployement-in-europe.html?hp&_r=0

    I think by the time the economy recovers, a new generation would have emerged and this generation will be left behind.

    So no real difference from the early 80s apart people being able to whinge on the internet.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,916
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    So just the same as any degree with indirect applications. Can't think of anything sociology leads to directly.

    I am not saying there is anything special about a sociology degree, hence why I pointed out that the careers listed did not require sociology per se. What I am saying is that the woman in question should not be ridiculed for expecting a career after university just because she studied sociology, as many of the skills it teaches are transferable to a number of different careers.
  • edExedEx Posts: 13,460
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Same old story. Think very carefully about which degree course you do.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,916
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    edEx wrote: »
    Same old story. Think very carefully about which degree course you do.

    Yep. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-24707507
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,232
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Have we become so steeped in individualism that we are unable to see the value of an academic subject that focuses on the context of human existence?

    Perhaps any subject that might question the notion that people are authors of their own fate should be banned all together?

    Mrs Thatcher warned against entertaining pernicious notions of there being any such thing as society, so why corrupt young minds with such subversive propaganda as the teachings of sociology?

    Surely every good citizen should stand up and condemn such contamination of young minds?

    Think of the needs of the economy? Is it not obvious that the youth of today should be trained in the mantra of: "I think therefore I am", ergo: 'If I get off my backside I could be a millionaire by the age of 21"?

    Perhaps we should be questioning the very idea of providing education for young people, in any subject?

    It may be that education is actually responsible for the unemployment among young people, i.e. because it is distracting them from their natural god-given entrepreneurial instincts?

    Potentially, there is an argument that says that education makes people soft, and raises expectations of entitlement to employment? The seductive notion that there is any such thing as society just serves to distract young people from the task of becoming fit enough to cope with the jungle?

    In order to get the economy back on its feet, we need autodidactic Tarzans who can swing from one project to another creating wealth as they slash their way through the jungle - not people who have been pampered with education and corrupted by socialist teachings of society!

    Education, education, education, can be seen as marking the point where things started to slide!

    According to evolutionary evidence, if we stop educating the working classes, the economy will pick up again and unemployment will fall!

    Surely this is obvious once one begins to think outside of the box?

    Such are the teachings of Margaret - let it be written.
  • SuperwombleSuperwomble Posts: 4,361
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    So no real difference from the early 80s apart people being able to whinge on the internet.

    Ouch!!

    While I agree with you fundamentally, I think the fault is not with the person but the system that has allowed teaching that these so called 'soft degrees' are worthwhile, and encouraged the teaching of them in the sure knowledge that the only people that benefit from them are the lecturers and colleges that put them on, from the per pupil subsidy that they gain from it.

    Put simply, its jobs for the boys.
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    It's not what you know, it's who you know.

    Same old, same old.
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    nomad2king wrote: »
    How many of them need Sociology? How many of those are purely voluntary, ie don't pay. Even more relevant is, how many of those career positions exist outside the UK? How many that are left need additional training eg teaching of sociology, or need actual real world experience. Not really that much that is transferable..

    The Chancellor of the Exchequer of this country has a second class degree in Modern History.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,232
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Cameron studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics at University, all being Social Science subjects.

    But then he was a member of the Bulligdon Club, along with George and Boris.
  • smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
    Forum Member
    Peter_CJ wrote: »
    Cameron studied Philosophy, Politics and Economics at University, all being Social Science subjects.

    But then he was a member of the Bulligdon Club, along with George and Boris.

    Is that meant to be positive or negative about sociology?
  • broadshoulderbroadshoulder Posts: 18,758
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Employers are a problem. They want unbroken employment history. Any temping or unemployment gaps then they dont look twice at you.
  • angarrackangarrack Posts: 5,493
    Forum Member
    Is that meant to be positive or negative about sociology?


    CJ didn't get to where he is today without knowing something about sociology.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,186
    Forum Member
    Peter_CJ wrote: »
    Have we become so steeped in individualism that we are unable to see the value of an academic subject that focuses on the context of human existence?

    Perhaps any subject that might question the notion that people are authors of their own fate should be banned all together?

    Mrs Thatcher warned against entertaining pernicious notions of there being any such thing as society, so why corrupt young minds with such subversive propaganda as the teachings of sociology?

    Surely every good citizen should stand up and condemn such contamination of young minds?

    Think of the needs of the economy? Is it not obvious that the youth of today should be trained in the mantra of: "I think therefore I am", ergo: 'If I get off my backside I could be a millionaire by the age of 21"?

    Perhaps we should be questioning the very idea of providing education for young people, in any subject?

    It may be that education is actually responsible for the unemployment among young people, i.e. because it is distracting them from their natural god-given entrepreneurial instincts?

    Potentially, there is an argument that says that education makes people soft, and raises expectations of entitlement to employment? The seductive notion that there is any such thing as society just serves to distract young people from the task of becoming fit enough to cope with the jungle?

    In order to get the economy back on its feet, we need autodidactic Tarzans who can swing from one project to another creating wealth as they slash their way through the jungle - not people who have been pampered with education and corrupted by socialist teachings of society!

    Education, education, education, can be seen as marking the point where things started to slide!

    According to evolutionary evidence, if we stop educating the working classes, the economy will pick up again and unemployment will fall!

    Surely this is obvious once one begins to think outside of the box?

    Such are the teachings of Margaret - let it be written.

    That is a good argument against sociology to be honest - the big society, individualism, and the usefulness of looking at society through the fixed lens of sociology.

    The unschooled society I don't think will work - painters will paint the wrong rooms or mechanics will replace the wrong tyres. But this is all possible in a socialist society anyway - so it wouldn't be too different to the present - what's needed is a bit more through a bit less.
  • stud u likestud u like Posts: 42,100
    Forum Member
    nomad2king wrote: »
    With a degree in Sociology, expected a professional career as what?

    Anything. The lists of jobs is endless as sociology has so many subdivisions. A sociology graduate could get jobs in technology, social research, Politics, Law, Community Development,Human Resources, Youth Work, Social Work, Prison and Reform, Psychotherapy, Queer Theory and work in media from newspapers, magazines and television work,

    A friend of a friend called Jeffrey Weeks has made a very successful career out of it, writing and revolutionising Queer Theory and gay sociology.

    There have been plenty of famous people with degrees in Sociology. Martin Luther King , Michelle Obama, Saul Bellow,James Blunt and Ronald Reagan.
  • smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
    Forum Member

    There have been plenty of famous people with degrees in Sociology. Martin Luther King , Michelle Obama, Saul Bellow,James Blunt and Ronald Reagan.

    Reagan - Economics and sociology
    Obama - Sociology and African American studies
    Bellow - Antropology and Sociology
    Blunt - couldn't hack Aerospace Manufacturing Engineering, so ended up with sociology - says it all - sociology is an easy get out subject
  • DarthDorkDarthDork Posts: 898
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    angarrack wrote: »
    CJ didn't get to where he is today without knowing something about sociology.

    Bonus points for Reggie Perrin reference :D
  • paulschapmanpaulschapman Posts: 35,536
    Forum Member
    nomad2king wrote: »
    How many of them need Sociology? How many of those are purely voluntary, ie don't pay. Even more relevant is, how many of those career positions exist outside the UK? How many that are left need additional training eg teaching of sociology, or need actual real world experience. Not really that much that is transferable..

    Sociology is the study of human social behavior and its origins, development, organizations, and institutions. As such it has a wide application - you could for example use it in designing computer user interfaces, and many roles require a person to collaborate or work with other people.

    So it is not that 'useless' a subject.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,845
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    nomad2king wrote: »
    With a degree in Sociology, expected a professional career as what?

    Actually it's not about sociology if you read the whole article. That's just one example amongst many. 56% of all Spaniards under the age of 24 have no jobs, amongst 25-30 year old age group it rises to 2/3. They are not all studying "sociology". Spain is not a nation of sociologists last time I checked.

    It's about how young graduates can't get a job particularly in Southern Europe and many have fled abroad. There's also this girl who studied nursing and couldn't get a job.
  • gulliverfoylegulliverfoyle Posts: 6,318
    Forum Member
    get a proper degree

    if you dont want a hard subject try english
Sign In or Register to comment.