I have to disagree with the commentators I do not think the way New Zealand is batting is entertaining I think it's quite boring every ball just trying to smack it. Top edges everywhere. almost no skill involved at all
Great day's play and fairly even. Both sides can be happy with proceedings.
Just realised something too. I tried to search it by the way but the search on DS isn't as good as it once was. Last year somebody commented on how England were at around 662 caps and asked the question "I wonder who will be number 666 ?" Sulla replied with "I think Adam Lyth." Now I know in the past I have said he has spoken some old fart ( which he does ) but fair play to him on that shout. Over a year ago I reckon.
Regarding some of these records with Anderson and Cook to past players are we really comparing apples with oranges here? I was looking at England's schedule this year and they're set to play 14 tests in total for 2015 and 17 tests in 2016. Were 17 tests per year the norm in the 70s/80s etc?
If people use the wicket taking column as the only relevant statistic on judging greatness, then I suspect that means Stuart Broad will go down eventually as England's ultimate greatest ever bowler since he'll probably surpass Anderson being only 121 wickets behind.
Regarding some of these records with Anderson and Cook to past players are we really comparing apples with oranges here? I was looking at England's schedule this year and they're set to play 14 tests in total for 2015 and 17 tests in 2016. Were 17 tests per year the norm in the 70s/80s etc?
If people use the wicket taking column as the only relevant statistic on judging greatness, then I suspect that means Stuart Broad will go down eventually as England's ultimate greatest ever bowler since he'll probably surpass Anderson being only 121 wickets behind.
Arise Stuart Broad, England's bowling GOAT.
to be fair when they brought up the all time wicket takers for pace bowlers next to the wicket tally was the total amount of matches played. So a quick calculation you can see who is good with more wickets and less games played.
to be fair when they brought up the all time wicket takers for pace bowlers next to the wicket tally was the total amount of matches played. So a quick calculation you can see who is good with more wickets and less games played.
Jimmy is not in the class of Fred Trueman or Jim Laker but that should not detract from how hard it is to bowl in this era where the pitches are (generally) more batsman friendly.
Regarding some of these records with Anderson and Cook to past players are we really comparing apples with oranges here? I was looking at England's schedule this year and they're set to play 14 tests in total for 2015 and 17 tests in 2016. Were 17 tests per year the norm in the 70s/80s etc?
If people use the wicket taking column as the only relevant statistic on judging greatness, then I suspect that means Stuart Broad will go down eventually as England's ultimate greatest ever bowler since he'll probably surpass Anderson being only 121 wickets behind.
Arise Stuart Broad, England's bowling GOAT.
In a way, yes it IS apples and oranges, but it works both ways. You can point to more test cricket now than in the past, equally the overall standard is much higher now than 50 years ago, heck even 20 years, and the extra workload puts extra stress on the players bodies, especially bowlers. It's just very difficult to compare a player from this generation to a prior generation because the game has evolved so much. But at the same time, we should absolute celebrate the achievements of Cook and Anderson. It's still a phenomenal achievement for both of them, and quite exciting for England to have their leading run scorer and wicket taker in the same team.
In a way, yes it IS apples and oranges, but it works both ways. You can point to more test cricket now than in the past, equally the overall standard is much higher now than 50 years ago, heck even 20 years, and the extra workload puts extra stress on the players bodies, especially bowlers. It's just very difficult to compare a player from this generation to a prior generation because the game has evolved so much. But at the same time, we should absolute celebrate the achievements of Cook and Anderson. It's still a phenomenal achievement for both of them, and quite exciting for England to have their leading run scorer and wicket taker in the same team.
Excellent post very similar to what I wanted to say but was busy at the time.
The fielding standards in the modern game are simply astonishing compared to the past for example.
There is a lot of nostalgia in sport often regarding a mythical 'golden age' that never actually existed - you see that especially in boxing - where every single heavyweight era is seen as the worst that there has ever been...
It's still a phenomenal achievement for both of them, and quite exciting for England to have their leading run scorer and wicket taker in the same team.
And the future leading run scorer and wicket taker; Root and Broad.
Seriously though if almost 20 tests per year are going to be the norm then their records wont last long. A player playing now would have almost as many tests as Botham and Anderson has now in just 5 years.
Excellent post very similar to what I wanted to say but was busy at the time.
The fielding standards in the modern game are simply astonishing compared to the past for example.
There is a lot of nostalgia in sport often regarding a mythical 'golden age' that never actually existed - you see that especially in boxing - where every single heavyweight era is seen as the worst that there has ever been...
Until the next one.
Sorry that's simply not true, I'm planning to start a thread about that in the football section at some point asking about why current achievements are ALWAYS seen as the best ever. Not going into detail, but examples include:
- Fifa World Cup 2014 being the greatest ever (bbc polled it during the tournament with 39% agreeing, 1990 came in second place with just 10%)
- Rooney's overhead in 2011 voted the greatest goal scored in English league football history.
- Steven Gerrard voted Liverpool's greatest ever player (Dalglish surely?).
- Steven Gerrard's 2006 FA Cup goal voted the greatest FA cup goal ever (ahead of Ricky Villas for example?)
- 2013/14 voted the greatest Premier League season ever (before 2011/12 was previously)
- Bradford beating Chelsea this season was voted the greatest FA Cup shock ever (winning the poll with massive 77%)
- Charlie's Adams goal against Chelsea routinely mentioned as goal of the century.
- Numerous times this season was I hearing De Gea's performances for United as the 'greatest ever' by a goalkeeper, and so on.
Even in other sports, Ronnie O'Sullivan claimed as the greatest ever snooker player (hasn't surpassed Davis or Hendry's World titles). Current All blacks side greatest ever, Tom Brady greatest ever quarterback (Montana has as many superbowls as him)Mayweather being better than Ali. Tiger Woods, being the greatest ever golfer (hasn't surpassed Nicklaus's totals) and now many British pundits like Montgomerie who claim McIlroy is the best ever golfer! Its always whats current.
Again I'm not going to drag a football/other sports conversation into a cricket thread but I will be starting a discussion at some point asking why there is so much bias towards modern achievements in sport, and I have links and opinion polls to back this up that when a modern event occurs, everytime a opinion poll is then put forward by the BBC or whoever, the modern achievement always wins. So those with rose tinted nostalgic feelings don't outnumber those always go with whats current, those who claim past events are better (or just some past events are better) are in a minority.
In music there is a rose tinted nostalgic outlook for definite I accept, but not in sport, its actually the opposite. I'm not going to drag the arse out of this thread regarding a discussion about all sports here, but opinion polls always give bias towards recent events. So I don't accept the nostalgic thinking in sport exists anywhere as much as people think it does personally. Absolutely no way.
I just want to point out this is a cricket thread so I don't want people to reply to me and debate all those sporting examples (I will start my own thread for that shortly), I wanted to reply to that comment as I just feel strongly that the idea that when somebody suggests an event from the past is better that its always put down to rose tinted nostalgia, when infact opinion polling always gives the benefit of the doubt the modern sportstar/event, GOAT discussions are always heavily in favour of the present.
There are lots of things about modern cricket that ARE great, did you see todays run rate for example? You wouldn't have got that 20-30 years ago, modern Test cricket is as good as its ever been. The recent ODI world cup showed how phenomenally gifted, dynamic and athletic a lot of our modern day batsman are these days. So I'm not bashing the modern game in anyway, just the claim that appears to arise that current=best ever, which is not always the case.
And the future leading run scorer and wicket taker; Root and Broad.
Seriously though if almost 20 tests per year are going to be the norm then their records wont last long. A player playing now would have almost as many tests as Botham and Anderson has now in just 5 years.
Time will tell , but I think it's more difficult to accumulate the number of runs/wickets that Cook and Anderson have than you imply, regardless of the volume of test cricket played..;)
Also, you have to factor in that Cook and Anderson aren't going to retire right now, Cook could potentially play on at test level for half a dozen years or more yet adding to his runs total depending on form and fitness. Anderson may well have a few years in him yet too.
And when you look at Root and Broad specifically there are factors to consider, such as Broad being somewhat injury prone and less likely to be physically able to bowl enough matches to reach the record, and the fact that as tremendous as Roots form is right now, it's far from a given it's something he can sustain at that level in the long term (in fact the odds rather suggest he won't. Fair play to them both if they do achieve, I'll be equally delighted for them then as I am for Cook and Anderson now, but it's far from certain.
for me the 90s were the greatest decade.
Great teams/ great players and far more balance between bat and ball.
literally all teams had good bowlers.
They were, however, pretty miserable times for English cricket on the whole though alas...:(
I loved watching Walsh and Ambrose bowling in tandem though, that was a thing of beauty. Ambrose's bowling statistics are mind boggling - average 20.99, economy rate 2.30....:o
I really wanted this tour to go safely especially with pakistan cricket in decline and very hard seeing them getting better and them not exactly getting much help from the big 3.
Although wasn't a big fan of the tour or Pakistan rushing and kind of threatening/bribing Bangladesh/Zimbabwe to come over.
I know how desperate PCB are to get cricket back but they should also know one attack and cricket will never come back after a very long time.
I really wanted this tour to go safely especially with pakistan cricket in decline and very hard seeing them getting better and them not exactly getting much help from the big 3.
Although wasn't a big fan of the tour or Pakistan rushing and kind of threatening/bribing Bangladesh/Zimbabwe to come over.
I know how desperate PCB are to get cricket back but they should also know one attack and cricket will never come back after a very long time.
Haven't heard about this 'till reading your post Bhav.
Just read this on Cricinfo
Explained as an electricity transformer blast initially by police, the explosion near Gaddafi Stadium during the second ODI between Pakistan and Zimbabwe has now been described as a suicide attack. A sub-inspector was killed and several people injured in the incident.
Although the PCB has said that the remaining match on Sunday will go ahead as planned, the Zimbabwe team management and players will have a meeting with host board officials and security authorities this afternoon to determine the fate of the tour.
Comments
ball swinging
I got us a wicket:)
Just realised something too. I tried to search it by the way but the search on DS isn't as good as it once was. Last year somebody commented on how England were at around 662 caps and asked the question "I wonder who will be number 666 ?" Sulla replied with "I think Adam Lyth." Now I know in the past I have said he has spoken some old fart ( which he does
Jimmy has his 400 wkts - now for tomorrow where Cook needs only 32 runs to pass Gooch and become the all time leading English test run maker.
If people use the wicket taking column as the only relevant statistic on judging greatness, then I suspect that means Stuart Broad will go down eventually as England's ultimate greatest ever bowler since he'll probably surpass Anderson being only 121 wickets behind.
Arise Stuart Broad, England's bowling GOAT.
Jimmy is not in the class of Fred Trueman or Jim Laker but that should not detract from how hard it is to bowl in this era where the pitches are (generally) more batsman friendly.
Well done mate.
In a way, yes it IS apples and oranges, but it works both ways. You can point to more test cricket now than in the past, equally the overall standard is much higher now than 50 years ago, heck even 20 years, and the extra workload puts extra stress on the players bodies, especially bowlers. It's just very difficult to compare a player from this generation to a prior generation because the game has evolved so much. But at the same time, we should absolute celebrate the achievements of Cook and Anderson. It's still a phenomenal achievement for both of them, and quite exciting for England to have their leading run scorer and wicket taker in the same team.
Excellent post very similar to what I wanted to say but was busy at the time.
The fielding standards in the modern game are simply astonishing compared to the past for example.
There is a lot of nostalgia in sport often regarding a mythical 'golden age' that never actually existed - you see that especially in boxing - where every single heavyweight era is seen as the worst that there has ever been...
Until the next one.
And the future leading run scorer and wicket taker; Root and Broad.
Seriously though if almost 20 tests per year are going to be the norm then their records wont last long. A player playing now would have almost as many tests as Botham and Anderson has now in just 5 years.
Sorry that's simply not true, I'm planning to start a thread about that in the football section at some point asking about why current achievements are ALWAYS seen as the best ever. Not going into detail, but examples include:
- Fifa World Cup 2014 being the greatest ever (bbc polled it during the tournament with 39% agreeing, 1990 came in second place with just 10%)
- Rooney's overhead in 2011 voted the greatest goal scored in English league football history.
- Steven Gerrard voted Liverpool's greatest ever player (Dalglish surely?).
- Steven Gerrard's 2006 FA Cup goal voted the greatest FA cup goal ever (ahead of Ricky Villas for example?)
- 2013/14 voted the greatest Premier League season ever (before 2011/12 was previously)
- Bradford beating Chelsea this season was voted the greatest FA Cup shock ever (winning the poll with massive 77%)
- Charlie's Adams goal against Chelsea routinely mentioned as goal of the century.
- Numerous times this season was I hearing De Gea's performances for United as the 'greatest ever' by a goalkeeper, and so on.
Even in other sports, Ronnie O'Sullivan claimed as the greatest ever snooker player (hasn't surpassed Davis or Hendry's World titles). Current All blacks side greatest ever, Tom Brady greatest ever quarterback (Montana has as many superbowls as him)Mayweather being better than Ali. Tiger Woods, being the greatest ever golfer (hasn't surpassed Nicklaus's totals) and now many British pundits like Montgomerie who claim McIlroy is the best ever golfer! Its always whats current.
Again I'm not going to drag a football/other sports conversation into a cricket thread but I will be starting a discussion at some point asking why there is so much bias towards modern achievements in sport, and I have links and opinion polls to back this up that when a modern event occurs, everytime a opinion poll is then put forward by the BBC or whoever, the modern achievement always wins. So those with rose tinted nostalgic feelings don't outnumber those always go with whats current, those who claim past events are better (or just some past events are better) are in a minority.
In music there is a rose tinted nostalgic outlook for definite I accept, but not in sport, its actually the opposite. I'm not going to drag the arse out of this thread regarding a discussion about all sports here, but opinion polls always give bias towards recent events. So I don't accept the nostalgic thinking in sport exists anywhere as much as people think it does personally. Absolutely no way.
There are lots of things about modern cricket that ARE great, did you see todays run rate for example? You wouldn't have got that 20-30 years ago, modern Test cricket is as good as its ever been. The recent ODI world cup showed how phenomenally gifted, dynamic and athletic a lot of our modern day batsman are these days. So I'm not bashing the modern game in anyway, just the claim that appears to arise that current=best ever, which is not always the case.
Great teams/ great players and far more balance between bat and ball.
literally all teams had good bowlers.
Time will tell , but I think it's more difficult to accumulate the number of runs/wickets that Cook and Anderson have than you imply, regardless of the volume of test cricket played..;)
Also, you have to factor in that Cook and Anderson aren't going to retire right now, Cook could potentially play on at test level for half a dozen years or more yet adding to his runs total depending on form and fitness. Anderson may well have a few years in him yet too.
And when you look at Root and Broad specifically there are factors to consider, such as Broad being somewhat injury prone and less likely to be physically able to bowl enough matches to reach the record, and the fact that as tremendous as Roots form is right now, it's far from a given it's something he can sustain at that level in the long term (in fact the odds rather suggest he won't. Fair play to them both if they do achieve, I'll be equally delighted for them then as I am for Cook and Anderson now, but it's far from certain.
They were, however, pretty miserable times for English cricket on the whole though alas...:(
I loved watching Walsh and Ambrose bowling in tandem though, that was a thing of beauty. Ambrose's bowling statistics are mind boggling - average 20.99, economy rate 2.30....:o
A blast outside the stadium.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1185016/suicide-blast-near-qaddafi-stadium-kills-sub-inspector.
I really wanted this tour to go safely especially with pakistan cricket in decline and very hard seeing them getting better and them not exactly getting much help from the big 3.
Although wasn't a big fan of the tour or Pakistan rushing and kind of threatening/bribing Bangladesh/Zimbabwe to come over.
I know how desperate PCB are to get cricket back but they should also know one attack and cricket will never come back after a very long time.
if you want updated information.
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?225527-Reports-Two-policemen-wounded-in-Transformer-blast-outside-Lahore%92s-Gaddafi-Stadium
If it's as good as last weeks on Captaincy, should be worth watching
Haven't heard about this 'till reading your post Bhav.
Just read this on Cricinfo
Explained as an electricity transformer blast initially by police, the explosion near Gaddafi Stadium during the second ODI between Pakistan and Zimbabwe has now been described as a suicide attack. A sub-inspector was killed and several people injured in the incident.
Although the PCB has said that the remaining match on Sunday will go ahead as planned, the Zimbabwe team management and players will have a meeting with host board officials and security authorities this afternoon to determine the fate of the tour.