He is a rather remarkable lad. I am amazed at his achievements so far and wait in anticipation for his next venture. The wish to diminish him and pull him down among the non achievers is depressing but unsurprising. I believe he took his study books with him. I would suggest what he has learned on this trip could never be found in a book.
1) if you really think that trekking to the South Pole is a holiday then your perspectives are really screwed up.
2) Yes, to be the youngest in the world to achieve a monumental task that very few adults could complete is a valid reason to take time off
3) No, it's not arbitrary at all. See 1 and 2.
So yes, I stand by everything I said. In exceptional circumstances it should be allowed, and if you don't think that trekking to the South Pole is one of those exceptional circumstances then your judgement is sadly lacking.
Chris ..... It was a holiday for him. A holiday is time away, doing what you want to do. He chose to spend his time doing this.
Chris ..... It was a holiday for him. A holiday is time away, doing what you want to do. He chose to spend his time doing this.
Hotgossip, it doesn't mention the word "holiday" in this BBC article, or in the Telegraph, or the Daily Mail, or the Western Daily Press. So I think to lump in this lads remarkable achievement with the normal holiday crowd is misguided.
Hotgossip, it doesn't mention the word "holiday" in this BBC article, or in the Telegraph, or the Daily Mail, or the Western Daily Press. So I think to lump in this lads remarkable achievement with the normal holiday crowd is misguided.
You said "if you really think that trekking to the South Pole is a holiday" so I was replying to your words.
When you go away on a trip somewhere for leisure purposes I am sure you call it a holiday.;-)
1) if you really think that trekking to the South Pole is a holiday then your perspectives are really screwed up.
Most of the times I've been away from home have involved doing work of some sort, sometimes arduous. I use 'holiday' to mean a break from normal routine and usual locality, which I'm sure most people can take in their stride and then get back to what they normally do, but this is being denied to school-kids because the rules on being away are strict and that can make it impractical to get away.
2) Yes, to be the youngest in the world to achieve a monumental task that very few adults could complete is a valid reason to take time off
I'm not too bothered what this chap does. I'm just interested in other kids - or even their parents, because they are tied to the school calendar too - getting the same opportunities.
Apart from which, if this kid took a couple of months off school (the trek itself was 50 days), and was deemed capable of catching up on work, why can't any other pupil catch up on a mere week or two's work?
Plus, it's down to whether the school authorises the absence or not. We've just had our planned holiday for early July, the last week of term, authorised by the school my children go to.
Exactly this. There is no issue if it's prearranged.
Chris ..... It was a holiday for him. A holiday is time away, doing what you want to do. He chose to spend his time doing this.
It was an expedition.
Would you describe a teenage Olympic athlete going to a foreign training camp as a holiday too? After all it's time away from education, doing what they want.
Apart from which, if this kid took a couple of months off school (the trek itself was 50 days), and was deemed capable of catching up on work, why can't any other pupil catch up on a mere week or two's work?
He's at a really good school and was probably better educated at 14 than he would be at 16 in the state system. However, doing this trek will be so impressive on his list of achievements that it would be perfectly understandable to a university or prospective employer if his exams suffered just a bit - though I bet they won't. He's presumably going on to A levels which are what will count much more when he's moving on from school.
It simply isn't the same as saying you failed your exams because your parents took you to Spain during term time to save themselves a few hundred quid.
Most of the times I've been away from home have involved doing work of some sort, sometimes arduous. I use 'holiday' to mean a break from normal routine and usual locality, which I'm sure most people can take in their stride and then get back to what they normally do, but this is being denied to school-kids because the rules on being away are strict and that can make it impractical to get away.
I'm not too bothered what this chap does. I'm just interested in other kids - or even their parents, because they are tied to the school calendar too - getting the same opportunities.
Apart from which, if this kid took a couple of months off school (the trek itself was 50 days), and was deemed capable of catching up on work, why can't any other pupil catch up on a mere week or two's work?
Tell you what then, every kid who can raise a couple of grand for a good cause whilst at the same time doing something utterly remarkable such as trekking to a pole, or sailing the Atlantic single handedly, or climbing one of the worlds tallest mountains, or even something more attainable like digging wells in Africa or rebuilding communities smashed by war/famine/natural disaster... all of them get a free pass from school. Happy now?
For the rest of them whose ambitions extend no further than mastering the banana boat and playing the splashing game in the pool then it's tough titty.
You're trying to treat the average in the same way as the exceptional an using the excuse of equality to justify it. Well, it doesn't fly.
When you go away on a trip somewhere for leisure purposes I am sure you call it a holiday.;-)
Oh, right, so Edmund Hilary scaling Mount Everest was on holiday was he? Captain Scott dying on the trek to the South Pole was on holiday was he? Jeez, have you no sense of proportion? How about Sir Ranulph Fiennes losing toes and fingers... was he on holiday too?
Tell you what then, every kid who can raise a couple of grand for a good cause whilst at the same time doing something utterly remarkable such as trekking to a pole, or sailing the Atlantic single handedly, or climbing one of the worlds tallest mountains, or even something more attainable like digging wells in Africa or rebuilding communities smashed by war/famine/natural disaster... all of them get a free pass from school. Happy now?
For the rest of them whose ambitions extend no further than mastering the banana boat and playing the splashing game in the pool then it's tough titty.
You're trying to treat the average in the same way as the exceptional an using the excuse of equality to justify it. Well, it doesn't fly.
Totally agree. Also think it's important to remember that what this child is doing isn't just beneficial for him, yes he's learning and experiencing something others can only dream of but he's raising £2000 and I don't care what others said that in itself is a bloody hard thing to do. If this is what he can achieve at 16 what is he going achieve as he gets older. Compare that to a holiday in the sun where it's only really beneficial for that family if even.
He's at a really good school and was probably better educated at 14 than he would be at 16 in the state system. However, doing this trek will be so impressive on his list of achievements that it would be perfectly understandable to a university or prospective employer if his exams suffered just a bit - though I bet they won't. He's presumably going on to A levels which are what will count much more when he's moving on from school.
It simply isn't the same as saying you failed your exams because your parents took you to Spain during term time to save themselves a few hundred quid.
Quite right. It's hardly going to look bad on his cv.
Totally agree. Also think it's important to remember that what this child is doing isn't just beneficial for him, yes he's learning and experiencing something others can only dream
But can't others realise their dreams too? Except their dreams might be more down-to-earth.
of but he's raising £2000 and I don't care what others said that in itself is a bloody hard thing to do.
That makes it OK of course! So any kid can have a couple of months off to do whatever they like provided they 'pay' for it by raising money?
If this is what he can achieve at 16 what is he going achieve as he gets older. Compare that to a holiday in the sun where it's only really beneficial for that family if even.
Why does it have to be a choice between treking across arctic wastes, or on a beach in Spain? There plenty of adventure holidays where you go trekking or sailing or mountain climbing, or working holidays or volunteering, or you can just be exposed to foreign cultures and languages and people. (A lot more educational than walking across ice for 7 weeks too!)
My view is if there is money needed to be raised for some worthy cause, and someone has the money to give, then they should just give it and not make it conditional upon some ridiculous or dangerous activity or performance. (What if this guy doesn't make the south pole, are people going to withhold their money? If not, then what's the point of the trip?)
And there is usually no need to literally go to the ends of the earth to do it (the costs of which will probably amount to a big chunk of any money raised).
I agree with this.
I also think that people do this kind of expedition for their own glory, not for some noble charitable reason. It's to make a name for themselves, primarily. Ask them to do something a bit more mundane for charity (cleaning or working in a soup kitchen) and they're less likely to do it.
Look at what I actually wrote. Do you not follow how that sentence works?
Oh, right, so Edmund Hilary scaling Mount Everest was on holiday was he? Captain Scott dying on the trek to the South Pole was on holiday was he? Jeez, have you no sense of proportion? How about Sir Ranulph Fiennes losing toes and fingers... was he on holiday too?
Jeez. Don't get your knickers in a twist.
There might well be teenagers sitting in council flats wishing someone would stump up for them to go off and have an adventure ...... Or holiday;-)
There might well be teenagers sitting in council flats wishing someone would stump up for them to go off and have an adventure ...... Or holiday;-)
Yes possibly. And they will be sitting there for a long time. The world does not come to you, you have to get out there and make it happen. Didn't this guy swim the channel when he was 12?
I also think that people do this kind of expedition for their own glory, not for some noble charitable reason. It's to make a name for themselves, primarily. Ask them to do something a bit more mundane for charity (cleaning or working in a soup kitchen) and they're less likely to do it.
Actually I think you'll find that in order to do "expeditions" they need to do the mundane stuff to raise the money to make it achievable. My experience is that people who do these sort of adventure raising trips, treks etc also do the mundane stuff like giving their time helping out at larger charitable functions which won't be donating to their trip. They also do things unrelated throughout the year to raise money and have a real dedication to the cause.
Of course you'll get people who probably do it more for person gain than charitable gain but they aren't going to raise the substantial amounts needed by sitting about and asking people to sponsor them. There is a lot of hard work that goes in to it. The events are usually organised for years ahead because often the recruitment of participants and training and bonding and fundraising takes time. It's not a short term commitment at all.
If getting the funds needed for charities just involved getting people do to some cleaning or helping out giving food then that's what the charities would do but obviously that's not the way to go so charities think of new ways to encourage and recruit people to fundraise for them. The world is full of lots of different people, some will happily make a long term commitment like volunteering for cleaning or tea making for years on end and that suits them, others will do treks and swimathons and fun runs and various other things and both should be encouraged.
I also think that people do this kind of expedition for their own glory, not for some noble charitable reason. It's to make a name for themselves, primarily. Ask them to do something a bit more mundane for charity (cleaning or working in a soup kitchen) and they're less likely to do it.
That is a very good point. I know a woman who is forever going on treks in Peru, Egypt and other places. I happily donated to her first trek but then she started going on more and more. She and her hubby are well off enough to just give a few thousand quid donation to the causes but she likes getting away from him, meeting other people and she really does see It as a holiday. She also likes getting her photo in the local paper.:)
You ask her to help with anything you are supporting or help in a practical way and she's always too busy.
That is a very good point. I know a woman who is forever going on treks in Peru, Egypt and other places. I happily donated to her first trek but then she started going on more and more. She and her hubby are well off enough to just give a few thousand quid donation to the causes but she likes getting away from him, meeting other people and she really does see It as a holiday. She also likes getting her photo in the local paper.:)
You ask her to help with anything you are supporting or help in a practical way and she's always too busy.
I admire people who do something useful. I have no problem with people going on these treks for personal reasons, but I don't see anything particularly admirable about it.
Yes possibly. And they will be sitting there for a long time. The world does not come to you, you have to get out there and make it happen. Didn't this guy swim the channel when he was 12?
^ see, sensible thinking here. Bang on.
There's plenty of opportunities for kids to get involved in something worthwhile. The world doesn't get handed out on a plate. People have to get out and get involved. Scouts/Guides, youth volunteering groups, social clubs, sports or academic mentoring, animal charities, local green teams, Prince's Trust... the list is huge.
Why does it have to be a choice between treking across arctic wastes, or on a beach in Spain?
Because a beach/skiing holiday is what the vast majority of kids will go on who are being taken out of school during term time. Wake up and smell the coffee.
There plenty of adventure holidays where you go trekking or sailing or mountain climbing, or working holidays or volunteering, or you can just be exposed to foreign cultures and languages and people. (A lot more educational than walking across ice for 7 weeks too!)
Do be sensible. All those are great adventures. But do you really see sailing a dinghy of the Isle of Wight or climbing Snowdon as in the same league as trekking to the South Pole?
My view is that if the activity is really worthwhile then, as I said some time ago, a case can be made. What you're suggesting is that any kid should be allowed out of school on the same basis. Well I can't agree. Your argument went on "Any kid can have a dream" (I'm paraphrasing).. to which I'd say almost all kids have a dream, but only a few have the courage and conviction to pursue them.
I'll repeat... From what you've said you want all kids to be treated as exceptional. That's not how life works. Get used to it.
There's plenty of opportunities for kids to get involved in something worthwhile. The world doesn't get handed out on a plate. People have to get out and get involved. Scouts/Guides, youth volunteering groups, social clubs, sports or academic mentoring, animal charities, local green teams, Prince's Trust... the list is huge.
Would it even be possible for someone from a less well off background to do something like this though? If the only reason this guy can is because he's at a private school with its own rules and fees of £12k a year, then someone at a state school would be pretty much stuffed as even if they could raise the money for the trip they would never be allowed to go. While it may be true that there are activities that anyone can do, it is also true that the availability of more impressive activities, such as this one, tends to be restricted to those with parents of considerable wealth. This is a concern that has been raised recently with regards to universities taking extra-curricular activities into account when making offers.
I also think that people do this kind of expedition for their own glory, not for some noble charitable reason. It's to make a name for themselves, primarily. Ask them to do something a bit more mundane for charity (cleaning or working in a soup kitchen) and they're less likely to do it.
I'm sorry.... do you really think someone with an introverted personality is going to go out and swim the channel, or climb one of the worlds tallest mountains or be the first/youngest/only one to achieve some remarkable feat? Really?? Of course they do it for their own glory. Does an athlete spend years training to then go to the Olympics and then give up completely just before they win gold? No! Do you think they aren't proud to be the worlds best at that moment? If so you have some very strange ideas about what makes winners tick.
Comments
Chris ..... It was a holiday for him. A holiday is time away, doing what you want to do. He chose to spend his time doing this.
You said "if you really think that trekking to the South Pole is a holiday" so I was replying to your words.
When you go away on a trip somewhere for leisure purposes I am sure you call it a holiday.;-)
I'm not too bothered what this chap does. I'm just interested in other kids - or even their parents, because they are tied to the school calendar too - getting the same opportunities.
Apart from which, if this kid took a couple of months off school (the trek itself was 50 days), and was deemed capable of catching up on work, why can't any other pupil catch up on a mere week or two's work?
Exactly this. There is no issue if it's prearranged.
Because they signed upto the T&C and legal ramifications of going to a state school and this kids parents didn't?
It was an expedition.
Would you describe a teenage Olympic athlete going to a foreign training camp as a holiday too? After all it's time away from education, doing what they want.
He's at a really good school and was probably better educated at 14 than he would be at 16 in the state system. However, doing this trek will be so impressive on his list of achievements that it would be perfectly understandable to a university or prospective employer if his exams suffered just a bit - though I bet they won't. He's presumably going on to A levels which are what will count much more when he's moving on from school.
It simply isn't the same as saying you failed your exams because your parents took you to Spain during term time to save themselves a few hundred quid.
For the rest of them whose ambitions extend no further than mastering the banana boat and playing the splashing game in the pool then it's tough titty.
You're trying to treat the average in the same way as the exceptional an using the excuse of equality to justify it. Well, it doesn't fly.
Oh, right, so Edmund Hilary scaling Mount Everest was on holiday was he? Captain Scott dying on the trek to the South Pole was on holiday was he? Jeez, have you no sense of proportion? How about Sir Ranulph Fiennes losing toes and fingers... was he on holiday too?
Totally agree. Also think it's important to remember that what this child is doing isn't just beneficial for him, yes he's learning and experiencing something others can only dream of but he's raising £2000 and I don't care what others said that in itself is a bloody hard thing to do. If this is what he can achieve at 16 what is he going achieve as he gets older. Compare that to a holiday in the sun where it's only really beneficial for that family if even.
Quite right. It's hardly going to look bad on his cv.
But can't others realise their dreams too? Except their dreams might be more down-to-earth.
That makes it OK of course! So any kid can have a couple of months off to do whatever they like provided they 'pay' for it by raising money? Why does it have to be a choice between treking across arctic wastes, or on a beach in Spain? There plenty of adventure holidays where you go trekking or sailing or mountain climbing, or working holidays or volunteering, or you can just be exposed to foreign cultures and languages and people. (A lot more educational than walking across ice for 7 weeks too!)
I agree with this.
I also think that people do this kind of expedition for their own glory, not for some noble charitable reason. It's to make a name for themselves, primarily. Ask them to do something a bit more mundane for charity (cleaning or working in a soup kitchen) and they're less likely to do it.
Jeez. Don't get your knickers in a twist.
There might well be teenagers sitting in council flats wishing someone would stump up for them to go off and have an adventure ...... Or holiday;-)
Yes possibly. And they will be sitting there for a long time. The world does not come to you, you have to get out there and make it happen. Didn't this guy swim the channel when he was 12?
Actually I think you'll find that in order to do "expeditions" they need to do the mundane stuff to raise the money to make it achievable. My experience is that people who do these sort of adventure raising trips, treks etc also do the mundane stuff like giving their time helping out at larger charitable functions which won't be donating to their trip. They also do things unrelated throughout the year to raise money and have a real dedication to the cause.
Of course you'll get people who probably do it more for person gain than charitable gain but they aren't going to raise the substantial amounts needed by sitting about and asking people to sponsor them. There is a lot of hard work that goes in to it. The events are usually organised for years ahead because often the recruitment of participants and training and bonding and fundraising takes time. It's not a short term commitment at all.
If getting the funds needed for charities just involved getting people do to some cleaning or helping out giving food then that's what the charities would do but obviously that's not the way to go so charities think of new ways to encourage and recruit people to fundraise for them. The world is full of lots of different people, some will happily make a long term commitment like volunteering for cleaning or tea making for years on end and that suits them, others will do treks and swimathons and fun runs and various other things and both should be encouraged.
That is a very good point. I know a woman who is forever going on treks in Peru, Egypt and other places. I happily donated to her first trek but then she started going on more and more. She and her hubby are well off enough to just give a few thousand quid donation to the causes but she likes getting away from him, meeting other people and she really does see It as a holiday. She also likes getting her photo in the local paper.:)
You ask her to help with anything you are supporting or help in a practical way and she's always too busy.
I admire people who do something useful. I have no problem with people going on these treks for personal reasons, but I don't see anything particularly admirable about it.
There's plenty of opportunities for kids to get involved in something worthwhile. The world doesn't get handed out on a plate. People have to get out and get involved. Scouts/Guides, youth volunteering groups, social clubs, sports or academic mentoring, animal charities, local green teams, Prince's Trust... the list is huge.
Do be sensible. All those are great adventures. But do you really see sailing a dinghy of the Isle of Wight or climbing Snowdon as in the same league as trekking to the South Pole?
My view is that if the activity is really worthwhile then, as I said some time ago, a case can be made. What you're suggesting is that any kid should be allowed out of school on the same basis. Well I can't agree. Your argument went on "Any kid can have a dream" (I'm paraphrasing).. to which I'd say almost all kids have a dream, but only a few have the courage and conviction to pursue them.
I'll repeat... From what you've said you want all kids to be treated as exceptional. That's not how life works. Get used to it.
Would it even be possible for someone from a less well off background to do something like this though? If the only reason this guy can is because he's at a private school with its own rules and fees of £12k a year, then someone at a state school would be pretty much stuffed as even if they could raise the money for the trip they would never be allowed to go. While it may be true that there are activities that anyone can do, it is also true that the availability of more impressive activities, such as this one, tends to be restricted to those with parents of considerable wealth. This is a concern that has been raised recently with regards to universities taking extra-curricular activities into account when making offers.