I honestly beeline they've been looking in the wrong place
It's one of those cases where the Pilot and Co-Pilot did a lot of things, and are now coming to the surface. That link you posted for instance, suggests to me that such a call happened as the person who piloted the plane, rang to tell someone that he had turned and was going to ditch the plane at a certain place, where it would be easy to find, except it hasn't been easy to find. Or he was making for the Australian mainland but ran out of fuel, and ditched where he could. I'm sure that the various authorities are looking into every aspect of the situation, which we'll never get to hearing, unless something significant happens, then CNN will have something real to talk about.
Maybe it's landed there and all the passengers nipped off for a BigMac?
We can't joke re the passengers Bg, as they've been lost for so long, and need to be found, for their own sakes and for their familes. There's nothing to say all of them will be anywhere near to that plane, and I wish to God that the searchers would hurry up and find that plane to end all the speculation.:(
I'm just watching CNN messing around in a manned submersible, and the guy from Nuytco who's operating the mechanical arms isn't wearing a suit and tie!
We can't joke re the passengers Bg, as they've been lost for so long, and need to be found, for their own sakes and for their familes. There's nothing to say all of them will be anywhere near to that plane, and I wish to God that the searchers would hurry up and find that plane to end all the speculation.:(
That's not joking about the passengers. That's joking about half-ar*sed conspiracy fantasies! (I wouldn't even give them the credit for being conspiracy theories).
That's not joking about the passengers. That's joking about half-ar*sed conspiracy fantasies! (I wouldn't even give them the credit for being conspiracy theories).
I think you might find that many aren't fantasies, and are based on what's already known.
I think you might find that many aren't fantasies, and are based on what's already known.
Sorry to burst your bubble Dix but I think you are wrong, the facts (loosely) so far show that that the current area is where the aircraft will be found:(
Yeah ... it more like looking for a needle in a haystack ... which is stuffed full of other old, unwanted needles!
Fallen out of tanker containters no doubt. The Satellite maps have been showing a lot of debris for weeks, along with ships, oil slicks, and some land, and anything large would be hidden amongst the garbage which wouldn't be that visible. The whole thing is ridiculous!
Sorry to burst your bubble Dix but I think you are wrong, the facts (loosely) so far show that that the current area is where the aircraft will be found:(
Oh I know that, but it's only a part of the story, which I hope will be told once the plane is found, and that's what I'm waiting for.
Only if you completely ignore the INMARSAT data, and I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why it's wrong.
I'd also like to know why the people who have all the available information, have got it so wrong.
But I can't ignore what I saw in the maps I was given, which shows how doctored they were. The guy at Immarsat probably got fed up and started drawing as his mind got frazzled. If you look at enough data your eyes go wonky and brain tires.
Other thing re Immarsat is they gave incorrect info to the searchers, and had to redo their maths. That was stated on CNN some time ago as I remember, so even with all the data in the world for instance, errors can be easily made. Once they changed their data the search went to another area. These are known facts, which turned out to be non-productive so far, so time the data was checked again with more precision.
In meantime I'm backing Echo to find the plane and some of the passengers.
But I can't ignore what I saw in the maps I was given, which shows how doctored they were. The guy at Immarsat probably got fed up and started drawing as his mind got frazzled. If you look at enough data your eyes go wonky and brain tires.
Other thing re Immarsat is they gave incorrect info to the searchers, and had to redo their maths. That was stated on CNN some time ago as I remember, so even with all the data in the world for instance, errors can be easily made. Once they changed their data the search went to another area. These are known facts, which turned out to be non-productive so far, so time the data was checked again with more precision.
In meantime I'm backing Echo to find the plane and some of the passengers.
Dix, I honestly never know if you're being serious or not!
They're looking in the wrong place, but Echo which is at that place will find the plane!
But I can't ignore what I saw in the maps I was given, which shows how doctored they were. The guy at Immarsat probably got fed up and started drawing as his mind got frazzled. If you look at enough data your eyes go wonky and brain tires.
Other thing re Immarsat is they gave incorrect info to the searchers, and had to redo their maths. That was stated on CNN some time ago as I remember, so even with all the data in the world for instance, errors can be easily made. Once they changed their data the search went to another area. These are known facts, which turned out to be non-productive so far, so time the data was checked again with more precision.
In meantime I'm backing Echo to find the plane and some of the passengers.
What maps were you given?
I too, am uneasy with the fact that the whole search rests on the IMMARSAT data, however as this has been such a high profile international case I am sure that data has been checked and checked and checked again to make sure it's right.
Obviously in the water on a floor, where it should have been easily found, but hasn't been so far. Bluefin, I hear is underway now, and with a lot of luck it may find it, and if not then a manned submersible should do it, as eyes are of better use than a robot can see. The best thing Bluefin has done is map part of the Ocean floor.
But I can't ignore what I saw in the maps I was given, which shows how doctored they were. The guy at Immarsat probably got fed up and started drawing as his mind got frazzled. If you look at enough data your eyes go wonky and brain tires.
Other thing re Immarsat is they gave incorrect info to the searchers, and had to redo their maths. That was stated on CNN some time ago as I remember, so even with all the data in the world for instance, errors can be easily made. Once they changed their data the search went to another area. These are known facts, which turned out to be non-productive so far, so time the data was checked again with more precision.
The above is incorrect and misleading - whatever 'was stated on CNN' some time ago.
The story so far.
First, the data initially provided by Inmarsat gave information that nobody apart from them even knew existed - that the plane had pinged handshakes to their satellite six times after it 'went missing'. Nobody asked them, they checked this on their own initiative and told the Malaysians... who promptly ignored it for two days. Inmarsat in their frustration then went public, forcing the Malaysians to pay attention. The Malaysians had six long arcs along which the plane must have been at one hour intervals. and these never changed. They were correct.
Second, The Malaysian investigation team (including US and UK experts) were able to use radar data to eliminate the central area of the arcs, and fuel data to eliminate the extreme ends of the arcs. This left us with the famous northern and southern arcs but the original Inmarsat data was not changed. It was correct.
Third, the Investigators made some calculations and assumptions about the plane's probable track through the arcs, based on their estimates of the plane's speed. This left two possible tracks, one north and one south. The Inmarsat data was correct and unchanged.
Fourth, Inmarsat tried and succeeded to do some further complex and time consuming doppler effect calculations of a kind that had never been done before for an aircraft investigation, to try and determine whether the plane went north or south. They back-tested their calculations against data from other Malaysian Airlines planes and determined that it went south. A separate satellite company checked their calculations.
Fifth, after even more analysis of their satellite data, Inmarsat discovered a seventh previously unknown partial handshake/ping 7 minutes after the previous final one, and that was analysed by the Investigation team, who determined that it was probably caused by the plane's engines failing. This enabled a new "final" arc of the plane's last moments to be produced. All the previous Inmarsat data was correct.
Sixth, the Investigation team produced a refined estimate of the plane's likely speed and this with the latest Inmarsat data enabled them to determine where Ocean Shield should search for the black boxes - which is where it is now. All the Inmarsat data was correct as far as we know.
Seventh, Ocean Shield's pinger detector detected four separate periods of black box pings which after analysis enabled the Bluefin-21 sub to be sent down to search the ocean floor. That's where we are right now.
That is the story so far. No erroneous Inmarsat data. Only the ping detections and plane's speed calculations remain to be tested. If they were wrong, the plane should still be found by searching more of that southern arc, maybe 400 miles of it x 30 miles wide, which would take months. Here is a map of the arc: http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releases/2014/april/mr_014-1.jpg (calculation #7).
I too, am uneasy with the fact that the whole search rests on the IMMARSAT data, however as this has been such a high profile international case I am sure that data has been checked and checked and checked again to make sure it's right.
I tried to save the maps but it couldn't be done, but I remember what I saw very clearly. The maps were drawings by someone who could draw well. I got these maps for 3 days, which was alarming to say the least. I thought of contacting the authorities for them to check them out, but haven't so far. I think I was just unlucky to get them at that moment, as one map just sprang up suddenly, and what I saw wasn't a map, but a drawling of a scene which staggered me. Couldn't see if the authorities would have been interested, then to get 2 more days of them, got me looking for more, as they were showing me something, but the program stopped working and haven't been able to get anywhere since. But as Bluefin has got to work, then I'm not looking any more, as there's no need to.
I'm sure most of Immarsat are very good at what they do, but maybe not everyone.
The above is incorrect and misleading - whatever 'was stated on CNN' some time ago.
The story so far.
First, the data initially provided by Inmarsat gave information that nobody apart from them even knew existed - that the plane had pinged handshakes to their satellite six times after it 'went missing'. Nobody asked them, they checked this on their own initiative and told the Malaysians... who promptly ignored it for two days. Inmarsat in their frustration then went public, forcing the Malaysians to pay attention. The Malaysians had six long arcs along which the plane must have been at one hour intervals. and these never changed. They were correct.
Second, The Malaysian investigation team (including US and UK experts) were able to use radar data to eliminate the central area of the arcs, and fuel data to eliminate the extreme ends of the arcs. This left us with the famous northern and southern arcs but the original Inmarsat data was not changed. It was correct.
Third, the Investigators made some calculations and assumptions about the plane's probable track through the arcs, based on their estimates of the plane's speed. This left two possible tracks, one north and one south. The Inmarsat data was correct and unchanged.
Fourth, Inmarsat tried and succeeded to do some further complex and time consuming doppler effect calculations of a kind that had never been done before for an aircraft investigation, to try and determine whether the plane went north or south. They back-tested their calculations against data from other Malaysian Airlines planes and determined that it went south. A separate satellite company checked their calculations.
Fifth, after even more analysis of their satellite data, Inmarsat discovered a seventh previously unknown partial handshake/ping 7 minutes after the previous final one, and that was analysed by the Investigation team, who determined that it was probably caused by the plane's engines failing. This enabled a new "final" arc of the plane's last moments to be produced. All the previous Inmarsat data was correct.
Sixth, the Investigation team produced a refined estimate of the plane's likely speed and this with the latest Inmarsat data enabled them to determine where Ocean Shield should search for the black boxes - which is where it is now. All the Inmarsat data was correct as far as we know.
Seventh, Ocean Shield's pinger detector detected four separate periods of black box pings which after analysis enabled the Bluefin-21 sub to be sent down to search the ocean floor. That's where we are right now.
That is the story so far. No erroneous Inmarsat data. Only the ping detections and plane's speed calculations remain to be tested. If they were wrong, the plane should still be found by searching more of that southern arc, maybe 400 miles of it x 30 miles wide, which would take months. Here is a map of the arc: http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releases/2014/april/mr_014-1.jpg (calculation #7).
Except I heard an expert say on CNN that Immarsat got it wrong.
Except I heard an expert say on CNN that Immarsat got it wrong.
If he really did say that, clearly he was wrong because black box pings were picked up by Ocean Shield right on the arc predicted by the Inmarsat partial handshake. A lot of rubbish has been spouted on CNN (and the rest) by so-called experts.
If he really did say that, clearly he was wrong because black box pings were picked up by Ocean Shield right on the arc predicted by the Inmarsat partial handshake. A lot of rubbish has been spouted on CNN (and the rest) by so-called experts.
A lot of rot has been spouted as you say, but many of the guests on CNN are real experts in their field, so would know. The rest of the guests CNN get to talk just give their opinions.
With the conversations that have been happening since my last post on this thread, I only have one question.
Why would so many countries who historically don't have the best political relations work so closely with each other & waste so much money ($44million & counting) doing everything they've been & are still currently doing, if they weren't 100% certain that they were looking in the right place.
If he really did say that, clearly he was wrong because black box pings were picked up by Ocean Shield right on the arc predicted by the Inmarsat partial handshake. A lot of rubbish has been spouted on CNN (and the rest) by so-called experts.
Has it actually been confirmed that they were "black box pings"?
I've just looked at marinetraffic & can see that when HMAS Toowoomba was last updated 21 hours ago, it was heading towards the lowest search area (the one the Chinese were searching in). Also heading that way are Warship Perth, the Nan Hai Jiu, the Dong Hai Jiu & Warship Success!
Comments
You couldn't make it up.
It's one of those cases where the Pilot and Co-Pilot did a lot of things, and are now coming to the surface. That link you posted for instance, suggests to me that such a call happened as the person who piloted the plane, rang to tell someone that he had turned and was going to ditch the plane at a certain place, where it would be easy to find, except it hasn't been easy to find. Or he was making for the Australian mainland but ran out of fuel, and ditched where he could. I'm sure that the various authorities are looking into every aspect of the situation, which we'll never get to hearing, unless something significant happens, then CNN will have something real to talk about.
I'm just watching CNN messing around in a manned submersible, and the guy from Nuytco who's operating the mechanical arms isn't wearing a suit and tie!
I think I might have to complain!
That's not joking about the passengers. That's joking about half-ar*sed conspiracy fantasies! (I wouldn't even give them the credit for being conspiracy theories).
Yeah ... it more like looking for a needle in a haystack ... which is stuffed full of other old, unwanted needles!
I think you might find that many aren't fantasies, and are based on what's already known.
Sorry to burst your bubble Dix but I think you are wrong, the facts (loosely) so far show that that the current area is where the aircraft will be found:(
Only if you completely ignore the INMARSAT data, and I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why it's wrong.
I'd also like to know why the people who have all the available information, have got it so wrong.
Fallen out of tanker containters no doubt. The Satellite maps have been showing a lot of debris for weeks, along with ships, oil slicks, and some land, and anything large would be hidden amongst the garbage which wouldn't be that visible. The whole thing is ridiculous!
Where do you think it is ?
But I can't ignore what I saw in the maps I was given, which shows how doctored they were. The guy at Immarsat probably got fed up and started drawing as his mind got frazzled. If you look at enough data your eyes go wonky and brain tires.
Other thing re Immarsat is they gave incorrect info to the searchers, and had to redo their maths. That was stated on CNN some time ago as I remember, so even with all the data in the world for instance, errors can be easily made. Once they changed their data the search went to another area. These are known facts, which turned out to be non-productive so far, so time the data was checked again with more precision.
In meantime I'm backing Echo to find the plane and some of the passengers.
Dix, I honestly never know if you're being serious or not!
They're looking in the wrong place, but Echo which is at that place will find the plane!
For a minute, you had me going there! :cool:
What maps were you given?
I too, am uneasy with the fact that the whole search rests on the IMMARSAT data, however as this has been such a high profile international case I am sure that data has been checked and checked and checked again to make sure it's right.
Obviously in the water on a floor, where it should have been easily found, but hasn't been so far. Bluefin, I hear is underway now, and with a lot of luck it may find it, and if not then a manned submersible should do it, as eyes are of better use than a robot can see. The best thing Bluefin has done is map part of the Ocean floor.
The above is incorrect and misleading - whatever 'was stated on CNN' some time ago.
The story so far.
First, the data initially provided by Inmarsat gave information that nobody apart from them even knew existed - that the plane had pinged handshakes to their satellite six times after it 'went missing'. Nobody asked them, they checked this on their own initiative and told the Malaysians... who promptly ignored it for two days. Inmarsat in their frustration then went public, forcing the Malaysians to pay attention. The Malaysians had six long arcs along which the plane must have been at one hour intervals. and these never changed. They were correct.
Second, The Malaysian investigation team (including US and UK experts) were able to use radar data to eliminate the central area of the arcs, and fuel data to eliminate the extreme ends of the arcs. This left us with the famous northern and southern arcs but the original Inmarsat data was not changed. It was correct.
Third, the Investigators made some calculations and assumptions about the plane's probable track through the arcs, based on their estimates of the plane's speed. This left two possible tracks, one north and one south. The Inmarsat data was correct and unchanged.
Fourth, Inmarsat tried and succeeded to do some further complex and time consuming doppler effect calculations of a kind that had never been done before for an aircraft investigation, to try and determine whether the plane went north or south. They back-tested their calculations against data from other Malaysian Airlines planes and determined that it went south. A separate satellite company checked their calculations.
Fifth, after even more analysis of their satellite data, Inmarsat discovered a seventh previously unknown partial handshake/ping 7 minutes after the previous final one, and that was analysed by the Investigation team, who determined that it was probably caused by the plane's engines failing. This enabled a new "final" arc of the plane's last moments to be produced. All the previous Inmarsat data was correct.
Sixth, the Investigation team produced a refined estimate of the plane's likely speed and this with the latest Inmarsat data enabled them to determine where Ocean Shield should search for the black boxes - which is where it is now. All the Inmarsat data was correct as far as we know.
Seventh, Ocean Shield's pinger detector detected four separate periods of black box pings which after analysis enabled the Bluefin-21 sub to be sent down to search the ocean floor. That's where we are right now.
That is the story so far. No erroneous Inmarsat data. Only the ping detections and plane's speed calculations remain to be tested. If they were wrong, the plane should still be found by searching more of that southern arc, maybe 400 miles of it x 30 miles wide, which would take months. Here is a map of the arc: http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releases/2014/april/mr_014-1.jpg (calculation #7).
I'm sure most of Immarsat are very good at what they do, but maybe not everyone.
If he really did say that, clearly he was wrong because black box pings were picked up by Ocean Shield right on the arc predicted by the Inmarsat partial handshake. A lot of rubbish has been spouted on CNN (and the rest) by so-called experts.
I'm going to bed as it's too late already, so nn
Why would so many countries who historically don't have the best political relations work so closely with each other & waste so much money ($44million & counting) doing everything they've been & are still currently doing, if they weren't 100% certain that they were looking in the right place.
Has it actually been confirmed that they were "black box pings"?
I've just looked at marinetraffic & can see that when HMAS Toowoomba was last updated 21 hours ago, it was heading towards the lowest search area (the one the Chinese were searching in). Also heading that way are Warship Perth, the Nan Hai Jiu, the Dong Hai Jiu & Warship Success!
Doesn't that seem strange?