Before Daley grabbed Hazel by the throat, she was goading him to "be a man". Initially, he responded "It's 2013, I don't have to act like a man anymore. It's equality now!"
But Hazel persisted goading him. Therefore I speculate that this caused Daley to feel like he had to prove himself as a man by the old fashioned standards that Hazel was demanding. So he grabbed her by the throat and told her to respect his authority.
Hazel wanted to test the limits of Daley's masculintiy. She wanted to see how much of a man he could be. She wanted a man who would speak to her in a way that she's never been spoken to before. When she walked to the chair looking worried it was because she realised that she had taken the test too far for BB. She was terrified that Daley would get into trouble and that it was all her fault for threatening his masculinity.
What are these "old fashioned standards" your refer to. Jesus H Christ,,:mad: my grandpa was the sweetest old chappie you could meet,,doted on my grandma. My father lost his wife (my mother) only 10 years into their marraige and let me assure you, grabbing her throat and roaring at her didn't feature in their lives as a standard of "old fashioned".I genuinely thaought that old "Barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen"scenario had died out...obviously not:(
she was no less aggressive one should not overlook this point.
at no point did she ask/scream for help, at no time did she ask to be removed from his presence.
Wendy, you`re a woman right? I know you dislike Hazel many people do and for good reasons even I dislike the way she behaved in that house also but you have stop letting your personal dislike of Hazel get in the way.
The thing is with Hazel she clearly fancied him sexually to some degree and likewise thought he felt the same from his behaviour towards her. Her teasing of Daley was not out of aggression even though she did take it a little too far, his reaction to her was a different story, his behaviour towards her was aggressive and was not playful in the slightest, when he started and responded to her at first she thought he was playing along with her in a playful flirtatious manner but when he began pinning her down and putting his hand around her throat and threatening her she soon realised he wasn`t being playful at all and she did not expect it and was clearly shocked.
It was that point she felt intimidated by him and realised he was being aggressive but like so many women in these situations, instead of crying for help and coming across as a woman who is weak she took it in her stride instead.
In many cases of abuse some women often do this for many reasons, for example they don`t want to appear weak or as a victim of abuse, they don`t want to risk inflaming the aggression even further either by responding in such a way.
Many women go along with their abusers in order to calm them down without facing the risk of further abuse or worse, this is also one of many reasons why some women take so long to leave abusive husbands or boyfriends they fear that by responding will make the situation worse and put them at further risk.
Tonight’s Big Brother 2013 sees Hazel O’Sullivan telling the housemates about why Daley Ojuederie was kicked out of the house.
Yesterday Big Brother booted Daley from the show for being abusive, aggressive and threatening to Hazel in the safe house the night before.
Following the announcement to the house by Big Brother, the group were naturally keen to understand what had happened.
Detective Dan naturally led the questioning, asking Hazel: “Did he try it on hard or something?”
“No he just flipped…I don’t need anybody knowing this at all…it was just really weird, like we were messing and I hugged him…we were messing around pulling on each other’s covers and play fighting like you do when you’re drunk,” Hazel explained. “I don’t know he just turned; the eyes and everything. I had my knees up to his chest trying to push him away, really really intense.
“I just grabbed his throat, pushing him away saying you don’t think I am afraid of aggressive men do you, I was pushing him away. Then at that second Big Brother were like ‘Daley come to the diary room.’ I didn’t want anyone to be kicked out, just got a little bit of a fright.”
Dan claimed: “I am not surprised this has happened.”
Hazel admitted: “I just can’t believe it got him kicked out.”
But Dan asked: “You were scared right?”
“Yeah, I was terrified,” commented Hazel.
Dan told her: “There you go. If you were scared and you felt threatened by that then even if it was a f***ing joke it was too much then the right thing has happened.”
Speaking later with Dan and Charlie, Hazel said: “I just don’t want my whole time in this thing to have been about him. My mind was changed last night; he was very drunk last night.”
She added: “As well and good as it is being in the there, it is very intense. I’m a very straight person, my personality doesn’t change much. So when people flip on me, when I don’t know what somebody is going to do next, that frightens me.”
Maybe she misremembered - or she was keen to look hard in front of Dan?
We saw when BB called him to the DR and it wwasn't at that moment, it was when he leaned over her and threatened to 'end her' and headbutt her.
Don't get me wrong Daly had to go ,Daly was aggressive the night before on the first live feed.BB were on notice and should have put an end to the ironically named 'safe house'
When Daly went to speak to Dexter the night he was in the tree house with Hazel ,Daly displayed aggression then.
What are these "old fashioned standards" your refer to. Jesus H Christ,,:mad: my grandpa was the sweetest old chappie you could meet,,doted on my grandma. My father lost his wife (my mother) only 10 years into their marraige and let me assure you, grabbing her throat and roaring at her didn't feature in their lives as a standard of "old fashioned".I genuinely thaought that old "Barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen"scenario had died out...obviously not:(
Please refer to post #14, it explains this in great detail.
Its not quite as simple as being "old fashioned" and neither does it effect all men.
No one mentioned Daley's reaction to Hazel's diary room comments to BB and how nasty he got when BB read it out. Hazel said exactly the right thing to BB, nothing more nothing less than the facts. Instead of Daley taking a step back and thinking maybe he had overstepped the mark, all loving feelings towards her went out of the window and called her a lying bitch, with a few more swear words thrown in. The guy is a first class knob, and really needs to look at the way he behaved, because it simply isn't acceptable.
No it wouldn`t make a man any more of a real man at all, however you have to understand how a lot of men who are conditioned by gender roles and stereotypes.
To a man for him to assert his authority over a woman and make her know her place sometimes using threats or violence is a way for him to take control and force her to submit to him, hence asserting his masculinity.
Of course in the modern world of 2013 this is now seen as woman beating and misogyny to the majority of people.
Dayley must have been tricked into confused city - who the hell would understand that comment from her??
Personally I thought that was simply her having a dig because he was demanding she come inside as if she was his wife and he had some sort of authority over her (even if she was his wife he would still have been well out of order ordering her to come in and ranting and raving because she was talking to Charlie.)
No it wouldn`t make a man any more of a real man at all, however you have to understand how a lot of men who are conditioned by gender roles and stereotypes.
To a man for him to assert his authority over a woman and make her know her place sometimes using threats or violence is a way for him to take control and force her to submit to him, hence asserting his masculinity. Of course in the modern world of 2013 this is now seen as woman beating and misogyny to the majority of people.
No one mentioned Daley's reaction to Hazel's diary room comments to BB and how nasty he got when BB read it out. Hazel said exactly the right thing to BB, nothing more nothing less than the facts. Instead of Daley taking a step back and thinking maybe he had overstepped the mark, all loving feelings towards her went out of the window and called her a lying bitch, with a few more swear words thrown in. The guy is a first class knob, and really needs to look at the way he behaved, because it simply isn't acceptable.
Don't agree OP. It's a quite common comeback when someone is threatening to say "come on then". Hazel was trying to show that despite Daley acting horribly, she was strong and not scared of him.
I know I have said similar when threatened and it is nothing to do with 'testing' someone believe me. I think you are over-analysing it. Oh and grabbing a woman by the throat would not make someone more of a man- not now or even in the 50's.
^^ This, why are people ignoring the elephant in the room? As soon as Big Brother spoke Daley got up & said did I do anything wrong? did I say anything wrong? going up the stair's he said all I wanted was my cover back! Daley knew how far he had taken this! No excuses what so ever! Daley is responsible for his own action's, Even in the Diary room when big brother said agressive his face told it's own story!
Someone uploaded the slap video the other day & I commented on it & said it wasn't as bad as I thought people we're making out! How wrong was I when I seen this unfold last night! It did start with sexual tension imo & hazel did keep on at Daley! That's no excuse for his outburst his stance on the bed his whole body language was aggressive it was obvious Daley was out of his comfort zone but you can't blame hazel because he cannot control himself it's that simple! I will say one more thing in Daley's favour, Had he pulled her knickers down this forum would have crashed!
He was drunk though? she insisted on goading him and there was a whole lot more to what happened that night on live feed, including the whole Charlie and Hazel having a word outside and Daley ordering her to come inside (which was a little sinister to be fair).
Yes he was a bit , but makes no difference to me.So whats your exact point he didnt deserve removing or something else ?
Yes it is woman beating and misogyny because its now become unacceptable and rightly so, why? because it is simply wrong.
I was explaining how a hypermasculine male would see it as being acceptable because of culture gender role conditioning.
Many women always say they are confused by how a man thinks and they wish they could get into a mans mind, well not all men think like this you have to bare that in mind of course but a lot of men do still think like this and this culture needs to be challenged and ultimately changed, because although women rightly have legal equality which I fully support with my heart and soul, there are still major issues with regards to the social and cultural status of women and that is something which should not be ignored by women or men.
Tonight’s Big Brother 2013 sees Hazel O’Sullivan telling the housemates about why Daley Ojuederie was kicked out of the house.
Yesterday Big Brother booted Daley from the show for being abusive, aggressive and threatening to Hazel in the safe house the night before.
Following the announcement to the house by Big Brother, the group were naturally keen to understand what had happened.
Detective Dan naturally led the questioning, asking Hazel: “Did he try it on hard or something?”
“No he just flipped…I don’t need anybody knowing this at all…it was just really weird, like we were messing and I hugged him…we were messing around pulling on each other’s covers and play fighting like you do when you’re drunk,” Hazel explained. “I don’t know he just turned; the eyes and everything. I had my knees up to his chest trying to push him away, really really intense.
“I just grabbed his throat, pushing him away saying you don’t think I am afraid of aggressive men do you, I was pushing him away. Then at that second Big Brother were like ‘Daley come to the diary room.’ I didn’t want anyone to be kicked out, just got a little bit of a fright.”
Dan claimed: “I am not surprised this has happened.”
Hazel admitted: “I just can’t believe it got him kicked out.”
But Dan asked: “You were scared right?”
“Yeah, I was terrified,” commented Hazel.
Dan told her: “There you go. If you were scared and you felt threatened by that then even if it was a f***ing joke it was too much then the right thing has happened.”
Speaking later with Dan and Charlie, Hazel said: “I just don’t want my whole time in this thing to have been about him. My mind was changed last night; he was very drunk last night.”
She added: “As well and good as it is being in the there, it is very intense. I’m a very straight person, my personality doesn’t change much. So when people flip on me, when I don’t know what somebody is going to do next, that frightens me.”
I have seen the clip where she grabs his throat..would like to say tha she is lad flat on the bed with him leaning over her..he grabbed her throat and her arm went up to grab his..he pulls her hand away..takes his hand off her throat and then moves his body and legs and somehow pins her down..then makes the don't disrespect your elders or I will nut you comment..her hand is on his throat for a second..whilst he had grabbed hers.the link to the clip is on one of the posts on here..cant remember which one but is about 30 minutes or so of live feed of the whole incident including leading up to them both going indoors..
daley was drunk. his manner is always aggressive, on edge its not a side that we as viewers are not aware .
he wanted her inside the room, once inside he did not want to be in her bed.
it is at this point that hazel becomes abusive in her behaviour and is sexually harassing him despite his clear words to her that in fact he wasnt playing.
he was drunk but had good sense to forewarn hazel of how he can turn when drunk .. she chose to pull his pants down.
That's still no excuse for treating a woman like that in 2013.
I really feel for women like yourself, because it is women like yourself that get so blinded and fall for abusive men, each and every time.
For me as someone who as seen first hand what domestic abuse does to women it is painful when women fail to recognise another womans suffering.
So much misogyny, and so much of it from women. Pathetic.
Tell me about it eh, I expect it from some men but for women to look past whatever a man has done to another woman and use their personal dislike of the woman to cloud their judgement and accept the man was wrong with his behaviour is pretty pathetic tbh I must admit.
When women do this it doesn`t do their gender any favours and only helps to keep the status quo regarding the abuse of women.
I am not shocked by it at all, especially when it comes from male posters that's the kind of response I`d expect from some male posters ( not all ) who adhere to the old style patriarchal gender roles, to them who have been conditioned to think and behave in such a way seeing another man treat a woman in such a way is acceptable to them they see no wrong in doing so which is why they seek to pin all the blame on the woman in situations like this because it allows them to justify the aggression and preserves the status quo.
Hazel is no angel and yes she is a player and she did go a little to far with her playful behaviour but again many men are also players, so to use that as an excuse to justify the aggression she faced is not logical at all.
I agree with most of your analysis, although I suspect that there's a significant number of older female posters who are most vociferous about Hazel.
I'd also wager that the anti-Hazel posters are more right wing, since its been documented in studies that those with right wing beliefs have conservative black & white thinking, and a narrow old-fashioned way of perceiving behaviour.
In this case, Hazel is a 'prick-teasing manipulator' and thus some posters are unable to disentangle their perception of her to see the REALITY of what happened, which was a 50:50 play fight between 2 people fighting for dominance, one thinking she was in a sexual situation, the other trying to prove a point, where Daley, and ONLY Daley got too into it, blinded by drink, tiredness and whatever values he has about women or Hazel particularly, and turned it very ugly.
In their view it didn't happen DESPITE Hazel being a prick-teasing manipulator it happened BECAUSE she's a prick-teasing manipulator.
Hazel is Eve to Daley's weak, 'played' Adam. You can't get more old school in your thinking but this ancient biblical myth still dominates our perceptions of men and women today. And I'm reading it over and over on this forum.
Comments
What are these "old fashioned standards" your refer to. Jesus H Christ,,:mad: my grandpa was the sweetest old chappie you could meet,,doted on my grandma. My father lost his wife (my mother) only 10 years into their marraige and let me assure you, grabbing her throat and roaring at her didn't feature in their lives as a standard of "old fashioned".I genuinely thaought that old "Barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen"scenario had died out...obviously not:(
Dayley must have been tricked into confused city - who the hell would understand that comment from her??
Wendy, you`re a woman right? I know you dislike Hazel many people do and for good reasons even I dislike the way she behaved in that house also but you have stop letting your personal dislike of Hazel get in the way.
The thing is with Hazel she clearly fancied him sexually to some degree and likewise thought he felt the same from his behaviour towards her. Her teasing of Daley was not out of aggression even though she did take it a little too far, his reaction to her was a different story, his behaviour towards her was aggressive and was not playful in the slightest, when he started and responded to her at first she thought he was playing along with her in a playful flirtatious manner but when he began pinning her down and putting his hand around her throat and threatening her she soon realised he wasn`t being playful at all and she did not expect it and was clearly shocked.
It was that point she felt intimidated by him and realised he was being aggressive but like so many women in these situations, instead of crying for help and coming across as a woman who is weak she took it in her stride instead.
In many cases of abuse some women often do this for many reasons, for example they don`t want to appear weak or as a victim of abuse, they don`t want to risk inflaming the aggression even further either by responding in such a way.
Many women go along with their abusers in order to calm them down without facing the risk of further abuse or worse, this is also one of many reasons why some women take so long to leave abusive husbands or boyfriends they fear that by responding will make the situation worse and put them at further risk.
Dan and Hazel.
Tonight’s Big Brother 2013 sees Hazel O’Sullivan telling the housemates about why Daley Ojuederie was kicked out of the house.
Yesterday Big Brother booted Daley from the show for being abusive, aggressive and threatening to Hazel in the safe house the night before.
Following the announcement to the house by Big Brother, the group were naturally keen to understand what had happened.
Detective Dan naturally led the questioning, asking Hazel: “Did he try it on hard or something?”
“No he just flipped…I don’t need anybody knowing this at all…it was just really weird, like we were messing and I hugged him…we were messing around pulling on each other’s covers and play fighting like you do when you’re drunk,” Hazel explained. “I don’t know he just turned; the eyes and everything. I had my knees up to his chest trying to push him away, really really intense.
“I just grabbed his throat, pushing him away saying you don’t think I am afraid of aggressive men do you, I was pushing him away. Then at that second Big Brother were like ‘Daley come to the diary room.’ I didn’t want anyone to be kicked out, just got a little bit of a fright.”
Dan claimed: “I am not surprised this has happened.”
Hazel admitted: “I just can’t believe it got him kicked out.”
But Dan asked: “You were scared right?”
“Yeah, I was terrified,” commented Hazel.
Dan told her: “There you go. If you were scared and you felt threatened by that then even if it was a f***ing joke it was too much then the right thing has happened.”
Speaking later with Dan and Charlie, Hazel said: “I just don’t want my whole time in this thing to have been about him. My mind was changed last night; he was very drunk last night.”
She added: “As well and good as it is being in the there, it is very intense. I’m a very straight person, my personality doesn’t change much. So when people flip on me, when I don’t know what somebody is going to do next, that frightens me.”
Big Brother UK airs tonight at 10PM on Channel 5.
Read more: http://tellymix.co.uk/reality-...t.html#ixzz2ZEIDkEz9
Maybe she misremembered - or she was keen to look hard in front of Dan?
We saw when BB called him to the DR and it wwasn't at that moment, it was when he leaned over her and threatened to 'end her' and headbutt her.
Don't get me wrong Daly had to go ,Daly was aggressive the night before on the first live feed.BB were on notice and should have put an end to the ironically named 'safe house'
When Daly went to speak to Dexter the night he was in the tree house with Hazel ,Daly displayed aggression then.
Please refer to post #14, it explains this in great detail.
Its not quite as simple as being "old fashioned" and neither does it effect all men.
Absolutely.
It may have started out that way but it didn't end that way. I believe she was genuinely frightened at the end.
bib it's not seen as that it IS that:eek:
Personally I thought that was simply her having a dig because he was demanding she come inside as if she was his wife and he had some sort of authority over her (even if she was his wife he would still have been well out of order ordering her to come in and ranting and raving because she was talking to Charlie.)
BIB: Probably because it is.
His last words were "Hazel is disrespecting me."
That pretty much says it all really.
^^ This, why are people ignoring the elephant in the room? As soon as Big Brother spoke Daley got up & said did I do anything wrong? did I say anything wrong? going up the stair's he said all I wanted was my cover back! Daley knew how far he had taken this! No excuses what so ever! Daley is responsible for his own action's, Even in the Diary room when big brother said agressive his face told it's own story!
Someone uploaded the slap video the other day & I commented on it & said it wasn't as bad as I thought people we're making out! How wrong was I when I seen this unfold last night! It did start with sexual tension imo & hazel did keep on at Daley! That's no excuse for his outburst his stance on the bed his whole body language was aggressive it was obvious Daley was out of his comfort zone but you can't blame hazel because he cannot control himself it's that simple! I will say one more thing in Daley's favour, Had he pulled her knickers down this forum would have crashed!
Yes it is woman beating and misogyny because its now become unacceptable and rightly so, why? because it is simply wrong.
I was explaining how a hypermasculine male would see it as being acceptable because of culture gender role conditioning.
Many women always say they are confused by how a man thinks and they wish they could get into a mans mind, well not all men think like this you have to bare that in mind of course but a lot of men do still think like this and this culture needs to be challenged and ultimately changed, because although women rightly have legal equality which I fully support with my heart and soul, there are still major issues with regards to the social and cultural status of women and that is something which should not be ignored by women or men.
I have seen the clip where she grabs his throat..would like to say tha she is lad flat on the bed with him leaning over her..he grabbed her throat and her arm went up to grab his..he pulls her hand away..takes his hand off her throat and then moves his body and legs and somehow pins her down..then makes the don't disrespect your elders or I will nut you comment..her hand is on his throat for a second..whilst he had grabbed hers.the link to the clip is on one of the posts on here..cant remember which one but is about 30 minutes or so of live feed of the whole incident including leading up to them both going indoors..
Yes, she was shocked and taken aback at the point she realised he wasn`t being playful towards her.
Refer to post 14# and you`ll see what I mean.
That's still no excuse for treating a woman like that in 2013.
I really feel for women like yourself, because it is women like yourself that get so blinded and fall for abusive men, each and every time.
For me as someone who as seen first hand what domestic abuse does to women it is painful when women fail to recognise another womans suffering.
Tell me about it eh, I expect it from some men but for women to look past whatever a man has done to another woman and use their personal dislike of the woman to cloud their judgement and accept the man was wrong with his behaviour is pretty pathetic tbh I must admit.
When women do this it doesn`t do their gender any favours and only helps to keep the status quo regarding the abuse of women.
I agree with most of your analysis, although I suspect that there's a significant number of older female posters who are most vociferous about Hazel.
I'd also wager that the anti-Hazel posters are more right wing, since its been documented in studies that those with right wing beliefs have conservative black & white thinking, and a narrow old-fashioned way of perceiving behaviour.
In this case, Hazel is a 'prick-teasing manipulator' and thus some posters are unable to disentangle their perception of her to see the REALITY of what happened, which was a 50:50 play fight between 2 people fighting for dominance, one thinking she was in a sexual situation, the other trying to prove a point, where Daley, and ONLY Daley got too into it, blinded by drink, tiredness and whatever values he has about women or Hazel particularly, and turned it very ugly.
In their view it didn't happen DESPITE Hazel being a prick-teasing manipulator it happened BECAUSE she's a prick-teasing manipulator.
Hazel is Eve to Daley's weak, 'played' Adam. You can't get more old school in your thinking but this ancient biblical myth still dominates our perceptions of men and women today. And I'm reading it over and over on this forum.