Xbox One finally outsells PS4 in November

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  • Dan27Dan27 Posts: 9,652
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    Congrats to MS - they've done a lot to turn around the console and it's perception in a short time.

    But this win in November means they have lost a TON of money. Can they realistically keep these XB1 price points? Or will the price go back up in the new year, like many are speculating?
  • SimonB79SimonB79 Posts: 3,135
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    Dan27 wrote: »
    Congrats to MS - they've done a lot to turn around the console and it's perception in a short time.

    But this win in November means they have lost a TON of money. Can they realistically keep these XB1 price points? Or will the price go back up in the new year, like many are speculating?

    Considering microsoft has pretty much unlimited financal resources (unlike Sony) I'd imagine they can do whatever they like! :)

    (Personally I couldn't care less about who's winning! .... The X1 is my fave system & nowts gonna change that!) ;-)
  • Red ArrowRed Arrow Posts: 10,889
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    Dan27 wrote: »
    Congrats to MS - they've done a lot to turn around the console and it's perception in a short time.

    But this win in November means they have lost a TON of money. Can they realistically keep these XB1 price points? Or will the price go back up in the new year, like many are speculating?

    How do we know they lost a ton of money? Does anyone know what it currently costs MS to make a X1?

    Plus anyway no doubt they will get a lot back in games sales and Live subs.
  • stefmeisterstefmeister Posts: 8,390
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    The PS4 needs some organisation. The UI looks like a cluttered mess now.
    Hotbird wrote: »
    I agree not really a fan of the UI so far. I miss the XMB which i thought was a great UI.
    martytarty wrote: »
    Really :o

    I disagree, I won't claim it's perfect but it's not a cluttered mess.
    Now that you can limit the number of items on the bar thing & hide things in the library its better than it was but its still a bit of a mess & nowhere near as good as the XMB was on the PS3.
    I hate how things keep moving around on the PS4 ui. The recently played games that stay 1st in the line I don't mind so much, Its the other apps & stuff which keep been bumped to the front after auto updates which annoys me.

    If they allowed us to create & sort things into Folders as you could on the PS3, It would be about perfect.


    However even as it is now I still think its better than the XB1 ui. Its almost like whoever came up with the XB1 ui asked me about some of my ui design hates & then went & put them all together.
  • brbbrb Posts: 27,405
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    Personally, I think the PS4 UI is atrocious... and I've also never understood the hate the Xbox One UI gets. You can manage where everything is pretty easily. You can then order them as you will.... I like it :)
  • stefmeisterstefmeister Posts: 8,390
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    brb wrote: »
    Personally, I think the PS4 UI is atrocious... and I've also never understood the hate the Xbox One UI gets. You can manage where everything is pretty easily. You can then order them as you will.... I like it :)
    For me its not necessarily that the XB1 ui is bad per-say, Like I said the issue with it for me is that the whole style Microsoft went with the metro/modern interface is just a collection of my little design/look hates.

    Boxes & tiles of differing sizes plastered all over the screen with big icons/boxart instead of clear text, Its all stuff I'm not real fond of. I've always preferred Ui's to be clear, Simple & look organized with things displayed so that I can look for/read text rather than icons/boxart.

    If we look at my windows folders for example, While there's all the snazzy thumbnails & other display types, I have everything displayed in the list view so that it looks tidy & I can quickly read through the text to find what I'm after (Except for image folders where I do use Thumbnails):
    http://i57.tinypic.com/2i7v52.jpg
    Same for XBMC/Kodi, Instead of all the snazzy boxart view styles I go with the nice simple list:
    http://i57.tinypic.com/2isv3x5.jpg

    One of the other really silly little things is that I love having my own background images & with a Ui like the XB1's there's all the stuff in the way blocking the background. For instance my desktop, All the icons out the way to the side leaving plenty of room for whatever image i've gone with that week:
    http://i62.tinypic.com/1z1zbfc.jpg
  • JDBabyJDBaby Posts: 180
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    I'm glad XB1 has had better sales, though overall still a LONG way behind PS4.

    I've had XB1 since day one, the 360 for years before that. I really debated a lot which one to get at the time as Microsoft shot themselves in the foot a few times before XB1 release. In the end went for XB1 out of loyalty and familiarity and also thought the Kinnect would mean in the LONG term it would be a better machine. Still glad got XB1, but unfortunetely the Kinnect seems to have become redundant. Microsoft should have kept up boxing it with the machine and been innovative . It's been underutized, and for me and IMO a lot of people it's just gathering dust.

    What a shame.
  • YuffieYuffie Posts: 9,864
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    JDBaby wrote: »
    I'm glad XB1 has had better sales, though overall still a LONG way behind PS4.

    I've had XB1 since day one, the 360 for years before that. I really debated a lot which one to get at the time as Microsoft shot themselves in the foot a few times before XB1 release. In the end went for XB1 out of loyalty and familiarity and also thought the Kinnect would mean in the LONG term it would be a better machine. Still glad got XB1, but unfortunetely the Kinnect seems to have become redundant. Microsoft should have kept up boxing it with the machine and been innovative . It's been underutized, and for me and IMO a lot of people it's just gathering dust.

    What a shame.

    To be fair, the ps4s camera is also very under utilised and does less than Kinect does.

    Although it wasn't compulsory with the console and will play a big part in Morpheus.

    But still, it's useless at the minute.
  • ChparmarChparmar Posts: 6,367
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    SimonB79 wrote: »
    Considering microsoft has pretty much unlimited financal resources (unlike Sony) I'd imagine they can do whatever they like! :)

    It's not about unlimited resources. It's about a sound business model. Sony is certainly big enough company to be present in the console platform business, despite its woes elsewhere.

    Put it this way: Nintendo could sell a lot and 'win' the console war, by just closing down or severely reducing their first party output and use that money to build a powerful hardware system and establishing strong 3rd party relationships. (it seems that's what people want)

    That would win market share but not necessary the war and would be a disaster for the company.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6,848
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    Remember what the companies are.

    MS a software company skilled at being right place right time and crushing better oppposition by making things difficult. (Ask any long time IT professionals). Now playing nicely since Gates and Balmer went.

    Sony an electronics company in middle and upper of market reliant on innovation. Which has seen core markets shrink. Started to sort itself out now the old guard have retired.

    Just remember that Netware was more reliable and faster than Windows server but MS crushed them despite the inferior product.

    So both are big innovative companies, MS originally entered the console market as a route to peoples TVs, they missed the internet boat, but did see the convergence boat.

    Sony entered as they had the hardware and some staff saw the future.

    As to core markets, tablets are hurting MS and cheap TVs hurting Sony.

    So basically you would expect Sony to produce better hardware and MS to produce a more well rounded OS.
  • Dan27Dan27 Posts: 9,652
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    Red Arrow wrote: »
    How do we know they lost a ton of money? Does anyone know what it currently costs MS to make a X1?

    Plus anyway no doubt they will get a lot back in games sales and Live subs.

    Old link but hey...

    http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/29/the-deanbeat-the-xbox-one-cost-471-to-make-the-ps4-costs-381-and-why-this-matters-in-the-long-run/

    Factor in the removal of Kinect, the two major price cuts and the bundled games (MS has to pay the publishers of those games to throw them in for free) and you may see where Im coming from.

    Sony have barely touched the PS4 RRP. They will probably do so if they launch a new model PS4 next year..
  • gds1972gds1972 Posts: 6,613
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    Dan27 wrote: »
    Old link but hey...

    http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/29/the-deanbeat-the-xbox-one-cost-471-to-make-the-ps4-costs-381-and-why-this-matters-in-the-long-run/

    Factor in the removal of Kinect, the two major price cuts and the bundled games (MS has to pay the publishers of those games to throw them in for free) and you may see where Im coming from.

    Sony have barely touched the PS4 RRP. They will probably do so if they launch a new model PS4 next year..

    I'm pretty sure that last generation the consoles were being sold at a greater loss in the beginning than they are this gen .
    I also remember that last gen MS took a huge financial hit in relation to the RROD and I'm guessing this was probably a bigger hit than has been taken this time around.
  • Red ArrowRed Arrow Posts: 10,889
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    Dan27 wrote: »
    Old link but hey...

    http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/29/the-deanbeat-the-xbox-one-cost-471-to-make-the-ps4-costs-381-and-why-this-matters-in-the-long-run/

    Factor in the removal of Kinect, the two major price cuts and the bundled games (MS has to pay the publishers of those games to throw them in for free) and you may see where Im coming from.

    Sony have barely touched the PS4 RRP. They will probably do so if they launch a new model PS4 next year..

    I always take those articles with a pinch of salt to be honest. All they're doing is guessing really what the costs are based on your standard PC parts. We honestly don't know what MS or Sony are paying per part for their consoles. They could have some deal in place to reduce the costs.
  • ClanroydenClanroyden Posts: 227
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    Those figures are for the US and UK only. I think you will find that worldwide the PS4 still outsold the XB1 by a significant margin in November.
  • KirkfnwKirkfnw Posts: 1,613
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    Sorry but the PS4 just got absolutely owned here. Thanks to those extra sales more games will sell exponentially. The PS4 may be more technically advanced but so was the PS3 and it didn't show any significant advantage so it means squat all in the race. I think 360 games looked better on the whole in countless comparisons. Either way I play XBONE to have fun and this is what it provides for the much cheaper price.

    Sony not dropping the price at Black Friday will be costly for them.
  • fastest fingerfastest finger Posts: 12,862
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    Kirkfnw wrote: »
    Sorry but the PS4 just got absolutely owned here. Thanks to those extra sales more games will sell exponentially. The PS4 may be more technically advanced but so was the PS3 and it didn't show any significant advantage so it means squat all in the race. I think 360 games looked better on the whole in countless comparisons. Either way I play XBONE to have fun and this is what it provides for the much cheaper price.

    Sony not dropping the price at Black Friday will be costly for them.

    Looking a last week's games chart, I'd say PS4 is already back on top in the UK.
  • ClanroydenClanroyden Posts: 227
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    Kirkfnw wrote: »
    Sorry but the PS4 just got absolutely owned here. Thanks to those extra sales more games will sell exponentially. The PS4 may be more technically advanced but so was the PS3 and it didn't show any significant advantage so it means squat all in the race. I think 360 games looked better on the whole in countless comparisons. Either way I play XBONE to have fun and this is what it provides for the much cheaper price.

    Sony not dropping the price at Black Friday will be costly for them.

    Sorry the above is nonsense unless you consider the USA and the UK are the only places where consoles are sold. According to VG chartz worldwide sales of PS4 in November were 2321915 and worldwide XB1 were 2,000,577 .

    So much for getting "owned". Xbox did do very well out of Black Friday but only in the UK and USA, people in mainland Europe continued to buy PS4 over Xbox 1 by roughly 2 to 1.
  • ChparmarChparmar Posts: 6,367
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    Kirkfnw wrote: »

    Sony not dropping the price at Black Friday will be costly for them.

    Utter nonsense, Sony have made it obvious that the Playstation business is their top priory, which is not to say that Microsoft take it any less seriously, but this gen they are behind!

    The Black Friday 'fire' promotion the Xbox One had, was absolutely required just for Microsoft to stay in the race. The PS4 overall has a stronger line-up throughout 2015.
  • fastest fingerfastest finger Posts: 12,862
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    Clanroyden wrote: »
    So much for getting "owned". Xbox did do very well out of Black Friday but only in the UK and USA, people in mainland Europe continued to buy PS4 over Xbox 1 by roughly 2 to 1.

    4:1 in Germany, 7:1 in Spain....

    Microsoft spent a lot of money to get the November sales lead in US and UK. It's money they'll recoup over time through Xbox Live and licencing, but this is by no means a comeback yet, especially as Xbox One is floundering everywhere else.

    It does show that Xbox One sells at the right price, but are MS willing to introduce yet another permanent drop? There's nothing to stop Sony countering, thus rendering it pointless. Also, dropping the price too quickly could send out the wrong message and make Xbox One appear precarious.

    Xbox One still has a long way to go.
  • He4rtHe4rt Posts: 5,379
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    I'm sure i read a while ago that the Kinect sensor costs almost as much as the xbox one console itself to produce. Microsoft could possibly still be making a small profit on these cheap bundles.

    I'm glad that both the ps4 and xbox one are selling well. Can't wait to see what the future holds for both machines.
  • fastest fingerfastest finger Posts: 12,862
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    He4rt wrote: »
    I'm sure i read a while ago that the Kinect sensor costs almost as much as the xbox one console itself to produce. Microsoft could possibly still be making a small profit on these cheap bundles.

    I'm glad that both the ps4 and xbox one are selling well. Can't wait to see what the future holds for both machines.

    I don't think they are losing money as such, but their margins will be squeezed. That said, selling 1,000 consoles with £100 profit each or 10,000 with £10 profit each would make them the same amount of money. Factor in additional subs and games and they may well be onto a winner if the growth is high enough.

    Even if they aren't making any significant profit, they'll still see the money offset through discounting as an investment.

    Let's say they wrote off £10m in discounts for Black Friday - I'd wager that expenditure earned them more console sales than a £10m advertising campaign would. They just need to maintain that momentum now if they can.

    It's funny that 18 months ago, naysayers were claiming that the console market was dead and everyone would be playing on phones and tablets now. The reality is it's alive and kicking which is great news for all of us.
  • shoestring25shoestring25 Posts: 4,715
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    it all comes down to price while the ps4 was cheaper at the start alot of people brought the ps4 now the xbox one is the same price but you tend to get one or two more games in the bundle than the ps4 bundles so more people are buying xbox.

    Microsoft have realized its all about getting the console in your home once youve brought one evey game you buy will be an xbox one game so what if it costs them a couple more bundle games they will make it up in the long term

    i do think sony have taken their eye off the ball on this one xbone now has more functionality due to constant updates that do more than improve system stability more exclusives and more games in a bundle if i wasnt a playstation person i would be tempted by an xbone.
  • jokerzjokerz Posts: 1,353
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    it all comes down to price while the ps4 was cheaper at the start alot of people brought the ps4 now the xbox one is the same price but you tend to get one or two more games in the bundle than the ps4 bundles so more people are buying xbox.

    Microsoft have realized its all about getting the console in your home once youve brought one evey game you buy will be an xbox one game so what if it costs them a couple more bundle games they will make it up in the long term

    i do think sony have taken their eye off the ball on this one xbone now has more functionality due to constant updates that do more than improve system stability more exclusives and more games in a bundle if i wasnt a playstation person i would be tempted by an xbone.

    I find that most of the new game announcements on the PS4 are indie games which is a little annoying. I bought the XB1 now as there does actually seem to be more exclusives on it right now rather than Indie exclusives!
  • Red ArrowRed Arrow Posts: 10,889
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    I think people keep forgetting when comparing the two consoles and saying stuff like the X1 is still struggling etc is that the PS4 sales are unprecedented. They've even caught of Sony by surprise.

    Didn't the 360 sell something like 6 million consoles in it's first year (yes I know for a few months it had issues meeting demand) when it had no 'next gen' competition? Yet the X1 appears to have sold close to 10 million against a really tough competitor.

    To me that doesn't seem like a console that is struggling. Maybe people on this forum don't think that as much, but you just know on other sites people are calling for the death of the X1 due to its 'falling' sales. :p
  • KirkfnwKirkfnw Posts: 1,613
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    It's funny how hard it is for the Sony fanboys to admit the Xbox One is doing well and how competition drives the gaming industry forward. If Sony were the only ones around gaming would be stale.
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