It was definitely well written. I think we've been rather spoiled with the New Years episodes, Friday's episode and now this. All have been very unique and unlike a typical soap episode, and we've got it all in a month. DTC continues to amaze.
Very true. In just a few weeks we've seen every facet of what makes soap, and EastEnders in particular, so brilliant.
Kellie Bright was amazing tonight. One of the best actresses in the show.
She really is - she was wonderful tonight. In fairness, she has been wonderful for months, but she was really great tonight.
I think the four of them were good tonight - Kellie and Linda are both always of a high standard, but I think Danny and Matt were both pretty great as well tonight. It was tough to watch but hard to turn away from.
Clever contrast but awful otherwise. Can't stand Linda and Dean scenes were cut short.
well you are not going to enjoy an episode where the main focus is on a character you don't like I suppose.
I think it was relevant that Dean's scenes were shorter, he was simply trotting out his version of events to get his mother reeled in again, Linda was having to relive a traumatic ordeal in front of a stranger knowing her entire conversation was being recorded for other strangers to listen to and judge, it was right that more time was given to her ordeal,
I also thought the whole interview process was educational in that before tonight I wouldn't have known what to expect from an interview of that kind, that the person who was going to be in charge of your complaint would be listening in another room, that the camera was so discreet, what form the questioning is likely to take, even the fact that the police would provide an alternative mobile while they analysed the victim's!
I thought it was a good episode, Dean's casual lies, Shirley's willingness to believe him without really considering what he was saying, Mick's torment, Linda's determination and her realisation that it is going to take her and Mick a long time to get over this, it was very well done.
Where's the entertainment? Where's the fun? Where's the drama? DTC has turned the show into too much of a"raising awareness", wannabe realistic type thing. I wish someone would bring back the Santer days when the show felt like an entertainment programme.
Where's the entertainment? Where's the fun? Where's the drama? DTC has turned the show into too much of a"raising awareness", wannabe realistic type thing. I wish someone would bring back the Santer days when the show felt like an entertainment programme.
What have you been watching for the last year? We've had everything that you've just listed in the last three weeks alone! We've had a car crash, a death, a Cotton twist, a ladies night, a case of elderly abuse, a birth, a near-death, a big-scale whodunit narrowing down, revenge, a rape statement and lots of character-driven material in between. We're being given exactly what you want.
The acting and the writing was absolutely top notch. When the DTC era of EE hits, it hits big. This was a character led, moving and extremely well researched piece of work. Take the rubbish "who's the daddy" out of the equation, and this really has been a unique and well done storyline.
Couple of things I noticed: Linda's case has two holes that Dean's defence can exploit. Hole 1: several times in the episode, Mick and Linda introduced themselves as husband and wife. They are not, and technically lied to the police. So, the argument here is that Linda is a proven liar when it comes to not having what she would like in a relationship. Very harsh, but it could be an argument.
Hole 2: the whole prostitute thing. It's such a shame that the writing for the rape plot has been so good and the conclusion to that was so weak, because, technically, Mick was charged and convicted of solicitation. I gather that the Police were never informed of his innocence, or Ian would have faced criminal charges (not just for solicitation, but perverting the course of justice by lying about where he was). He never did, so either this was just an example of lazy writing (a staple of EE sometimes in these situations... check out Ian getting off scot free for failing to turn up to Max's trial in 2013), or Mick is still technically has a record of sleeping with a prostitute. I put it to you, Linda not so Carter, that you felt angry. Betrayed. Dean was there for you. The whole affair was purely consensual.
It's this that makes me think, in accordance with DTC's comments, that Dean will escape justice. It also makes me think that a far worse fate awaits him. I think he's not long for this world. Is Nick not going to be the only death come Feb 19th? After all, we know the big Cotton plot. We know the Mitchell plot (Peggy's back). We obviously know the Beale/Branning plot. Surely the Carters are going to have something big too. This could be it.
One final thing: I think Shirley knows, deep down, that Dean did it. And she doesn't care. She is standing by Dean no matter what, out of guilt, and is going to help him make Linda look like a liar, the woman Mick loves, and also expect Mick to forgive her for it. And he won't. Shirley is in for a massive fall here, one I'm not sure she will quite recover from.
Brilliant episode. Special props to Kellie Bright, who's an unbelievable actress, and to Matt D'Angelo. I almost feel sorry for Dean, purely because its obvious how mixed up he is. But he's a manipulative little snake, and he will get what's coming to him. Dean buddy... next time a girl tells you to help set up someone for a crime they didn't commit... say no. You've no idea what a stint inside can do to your head.
I can't watch the full episode until later, but I have to ask, does Shirley still believe Dean? He has stated that Linda was angry with his roaming hands and that she slapped him after he tried it on, but she "loved it"... how can Shirley not sense his twisted logic?
Are we still meant to believe that he thinks he's innocent after he lied about her saying no?
I still want Dean's time in prison to be told!! For no other reason that background on Dean, of course. Tonight was a perfect opportunity for him to say that he of course (in his view) would never rape anyone because of what happened to him.
I'm still hoping for some sort of breakdown scene - like with Gilly in HO when he realised what he did to Jacqui.
Did anyone pick up on the suicide line from Linda when she was talking about what Dean was saying to her on the night? Random....or deliberate? Foreshadowing?
I think Linda won't be believed in court and Dean and Smirking Shirley will be triumphant. She will then oust Mick and Linda (and such kids as believe their mother) from 'HER' business, and introduce odious baldy Butster behind the bar.
Dean will be around until he decides he is invincible and irresistable, and rapes someone else, and hopefully this time there will be witnesses.
I am rather pleased that Shirley seems to be digging herself into a deeper and deeper pit with this one. Hopefully it will be so deep there is no comeback for the character, and when Dean eventually leaves she does too.
Sadly I too think Dean is going to wriggle out of suffering any legal consequences, I don't think they will be able to build a strong enough case against him to take all the way to trial, the passage of time, the lack of witnesses the fact that Linda suffered alone for so long.
I don't think the fact that strictly speaking Mick and Linda are not married will have much of a bearing but the conviction that Mick now unfairly has for solicitation may well be a major point, Linda herself said she was lonely and unhappy at this time, and turned towards Dean because he was kind, this would be an indicator that she wasn't frightened of him, nor even wary of him, the incident at the hairdressing photoshoot wasn't noticed by anyone but Linda and Dean, same with the kiss, there is so much for Dean to point at as examples of how close they had become.
Dean isn't going to face any legal justice, I think it is going to be something else whether he is beaten up, even killed, suicide or simply completely ostracized from the community so that he cant continue to work and live there, he will be punished in some shape or form
I can't watch the full episode until later, but I have to ask, does Shirley still believe Dean? He has stated that Linda was angry with his roaming hands and that she slapped him after he tried it on, but she "loved it"... how can Shirley not sense his twisted logic?
Are we still meant to believe that he thinks he's innocent after he lied about her saying no?
I think she knows he's lying but is trying to convince herself that he's telling the truth. Shirley is a lot of things, but she's not an idiot and she had to know. The pause at the end when he left after telling his story says a lot - she knew that despite him 'not needing to do that' and his insistence that 'she loved it' that it wasn't right. I think though what she said at the beginning of the episode is exactly what she's doing here - she's on his side, no matter what.
I don't really know how she's going to come back from this with Mick and Linda, but from a viewer standpoint, as long as she doesn't actively attack Linda then I think this need to stand by him despite knowing what happened might not be a death knell for her. People will understand loyalty between a mother and a desperate son I think, even to disgusting, lying animals like Dean, but what people won't understand is if she actively attacks Linda after this. IMHO, anyway.
This is the first episode in ages I forwarded most of. I just can't bring myself to be interested in the rape storyline or more sensationalist Carter storylines. I've tried but it's so boring, it's as wooden as Danny Dyer and the guy who plays Dean acting.
I'm hoping this week intermingled with the Carters we get other characters/storylines. If not i might as well delete the recordings without watching. I'm really intrigued by Shabnam's secret or what happens to Nick
Just watched on catchup and I must admit as much as I like the Carters I think they were overused last year so I wasn't looking forward to this all Carter ep but I actually really enjoyed it and think it was really well written and portrayed.
It looked like Shirley was starting to realise how her abandonment of Dean that night had affected him. Almost like she could see how he'd twisted Linda's maternal sympathetic comments into something romantic because he longs for a mother figure.
I don't think she believes him, but perhaps she blames herself for his behaviour and wants to make it up to him by sticking by him and helping him cover up. Shirley's not stupid. She knows Dean raped Linda.
That was a really heartbreaking episode! I wanted to give big hugs to both Linda and Mick, both clearly still in shock and pain. I even felt a bit bad for Shirley - while Dean was telling his "version," of the story, she was clearly saying to herself, "If I hadn't f*$ked up and taken off that night, none of this would have happened."
It's obvious that Shirley knows Linda is telling the truth. Shirley said it herself: "Innocent men don't run." Dean has tried now twice to run after speaking about the rape - once right after Christmas, and again tonight. But Tina was right in the fact that Shirley is making this all about her - she feels guilty for being such a lousy mother to Dean, so Shirley will now redouble her efforts and support Dean to prove herself worthy. If this screws Linda and enables a rapist in the process, so be it!
Can we get Mick to resume his Christmas pummeling of Dean? Can Lee help? And Nancy? Maybe Lady Di too?
Can we get Mick to resume his Christmas pummeling of Dean? Can Lee help? And Nancy? Maybe Lady Di too?
It has to be a better beating than Mick dished out - he did more damage to himself than he did Dean.
You know, even though I wasn't a massive fan of the character, I'm gutted Johnny isn't still around. I think his reaction to this would've been fascinating to see. I think the kids knowing they were just downstairs, having a good time when it happened will make it tougher for them.
Comments
Very true. In just a few weeks we've seen every facet of what makes soap, and EastEnders in particular, so brilliant.
I usually forget about them until a few hours after the episode :P
She really is - she was wonderful tonight. In fairness, she has been wonderful for months, but she was really great tonight.
I think the four of them were good tonight - Kellie and Linda are both always of a high standard, but I think Danny and Matt were both pretty great as well tonight. It was tough to watch but hard to turn away from.
well you are not going to enjoy an episode where the main focus is on a character you don't like I suppose.
I think it was relevant that Dean's scenes were shorter, he was simply trotting out his version of events to get his mother reeled in again, Linda was having to relive a traumatic ordeal in front of a stranger knowing her entire conversation was being recorded for other strangers to listen to and judge, it was right that more time was given to her ordeal,
I also thought the whole interview process was educational in that before tonight I wouldn't have known what to expect from an interview of that kind, that the person who was going to be in charge of your complaint would be listening in another room, that the camera was so discreet, what form the questioning is likely to take, even the fact that the police would provide an alternative mobile while they analysed the victim's!
I thought it was a good episode, Dean's casual lies, Shirley's willingness to believe him without really considering what he was saying, Mick's torment, Linda's determination and her realisation that it is going to take her and Mick a long time to get over this, it was very well done.
Have to agree - I've been really spoiled with my TV viewing tonight lets hope it continues!!
What have you been watching for the last year? We've had everything that you've just listed in the last three weeks alone! We've had a car crash, a death, a Cotton twist, a ladies night, a case of elderly abuse, a birth, a near-death, a big-scale whodunit narrowing down, revenge, a rape statement and lots of character-driven material in between. We're being given exactly what you want.
The acting and the writing was absolutely top notch. When the DTC era of EE hits, it hits big. This was a character led, moving and extremely well researched piece of work. Take the rubbish "who's the daddy" out of the equation, and this really has been a unique and well done storyline.
Couple of things I noticed: Linda's case has two holes that Dean's defence can exploit. Hole 1: several times in the episode, Mick and Linda introduced themselves as husband and wife. They are not, and technically lied to the police. So, the argument here is that Linda is a proven liar when it comes to not having what she would like in a relationship. Very harsh, but it could be an argument.
Hole 2: the whole prostitute thing. It's such a shame that the writing for the rape plot has been so good and the conclusion to that was so weak, because, technically, Mick was charged and convicted of solicitation. I gather that the Police were never informed of his innocence, or Ian would have faced criminal charges (not just for solicitation, but perverting the course of justice by lying about where he was). He never did, so either this was just an example of lazy writing (a staple of EE sometimes in these situations... check out Ian getting off scot free for failing to turn up to Max's trial in 2013), or Mick is still technically has a record of sleeping with a prostitute. I put it to you, Linda not so Carter, that you felt angry. Betrayed. Dean was there for you. The whole affair was purely consensual.
It's this that makes me think, in accordance with DTC's comments, that Dean will escape justice. It also makes me think that a far worse fate awaits him. I think he's not long for this world. Is Nick not going to be the only death come Feb 19th? After all, we know the big Cotton plot. We know the Mitchell plot (Peggy's back). We obviously know the Beale/Branning plot. Surely the Carters are going to have something big too. This could be it.
One final thing: I think Shirley knows, deep down, that Dean did it. And she doesn't care. She is standing by Dean no matter what, out of guilt, and is going to help him make Linda look like a liar, the woman Mick loves, and also expect Mick to forgive her for it. And he won't. Shirley is in for a massive fall here, one I'm not sure she will quite recover from.
Brilliant episode. Special props to Kellie Bright, who's an unbelievable actress, and to Matt D'Angelo. I almost feel sorry for Dean, purely because its obvious how mixed up he is. But he's a manipulative little snake, and he will get what's coming to him. Dean buddy... next time a girl tells you to help set up someone for a crime they didn't commit... say no. You've no idea what a stint inside can do to your head.
Yep she was amazing and she is one of the best actresses I can't believe I met Kellie in October. My profile picture on my facebook is me and Kellie
Are we still meant to believe that he thinks he's innocent after he lied about her saying no?
I'm still hoping for some sort of breakdown scene - like with Gilly in HO when he realised what he did to Jacqui.
Did anyone pick up on the suicide line from Linda when she was talking about what Dean was saying to her on the night? Random....or deliberate? Foreshadowing?
Did you think Kellie Bright was amazing?
I don't think the fact that strictly speaking Mick and Linda are not married will have much of a bearing but the conviction that Mick now unfairly has for solicitation may well be a major point, Linda herself said she was lonely and unhappy at this time, and turned towards Dean because he was kind, this would be an indicator that she wasn't frightened of him, nor even wary of him, the incident at the hairdressing photoshoot wasn't noticed by anyone but Linda and Dean, same with the kiss, there is so much for Dean to point at as examples of how close they had become.
Dean isn't going to face any legal justice, I think it is going to be something else whether he is beaten up, even killed, suicide or simply completely ostracized from the community so that he cant continue to work and live there, he will be punished in some shape or form
I think she knows he's lying but is trying to convince herself that he's telling the truth. Shirley is a lot of things, but she's not an idiot and she had to know. The pause at the end when he left after telling his story says a lot - she knew that despite him 'not needing to do that' and his insistence that 'she loved it' that it wasn't right. I think though what she said at the beginning of the episode is exactly what she's doing here - she's on his side, no matter what.
I don't really know how she's going to come back from this with Mick and Linda, but from a viewer standpoint, as long as she doesn't actively attack Linda then I think this need to stand by him despite knowing what happened might not be a death knell for her. People will understand loyalty between a mother and a desperate son I think, even to disgusting, lying animals like Dean, but what people won't understand is if she actively attacks Linda after this. IMHO, anyway.
I'm hoping this week intermingled with the Carters we get other characters/storylines. If not i might as well delete the recordings without watching. I'm really intrigued by Shabnam's secret or what happens to Nick
It looked like Shirley was starting to realise how her abandonment of Dean that night had affected him. Almost like she could see how he'd twisted Linda's maternal sympathetic comments into something romantic because he longs for a mother figure.
I don't think she believes him, but perhaps she blames herself for his behaviour and wants to make it up to him by sticking by him and helping him cover up. Shirley's not stupid. She knows Dean raped Linda.
I think not.
Now, this will get interesting once, inevitably, Shirley and Mick reconcile, at least on some level.
It's obvious that Shirley knows Linda is telling the truth. Shirley said it herself: "Innocent men don't run." Dean has tried now twice to run after speaking about the rape - once right after Christmas, and again tonight. But Tina was right in the fact that Shirley is making this all about her - she feels guilty for being such a lousy mother to Dean, so Shirley will now redouble her efforts and support Dean to prove herself worthy. If this screws Linda and enables a rapist in the process, so be it!
Can we get Mick to resume his Christmas pummeling of Dean? Can Lee help? And Nancy? Maybe Lady Di too?
It has to be a better beating than Mick dished out - he did more damage to himself than he did Dean.
You know, even though I wasn't a massive fan of the character, I'm gutted Johnny isn't still around. I think his reaction to this would've been fascinating to see. I think the kids knowing they were just downstairs, having a good time when it happened will make it tougher for them.