It was also interesting what one of the ministers was quoted as saying. It seemed he didn't think the ruling was fair, as the slogan that was requested was something that is still illegal in NI at this moment.
Gay marriage is not "illegal" in NI, it's just not possible yet.
What makes me suspicious is that the article said it was a gay rights activist....I didn't realize that before. I had assumed it was merely a customer walking into the shop who happened to be gay.
Whereas now they've confirmed it was an actual activist, I can't help thinking whether all this was planned, staged, and the bakery were purposely targeted as the activist knew exactly what response he'd get. So basically a load of publicity for the gay cause.
Meaning there was an agenda here. And it had nothing to do with a cake.
It was also interesting what one of the ministers was quoted as saying. It seemed he didn't think the ruling was fair, as the slogan that was requested was something that is still illegal in NI at this moment.
The cake was for a party to be held with the local Mayor about the campaign for same-sex marriage in NI, but there is no evidence Ashers was in anyway targetted by the group. The bakery was the closest to their office and at that time there was nothing in their shops or on their website to indicate they were a 'Christian bakery'. I can testify too, that meetings about same-sex marriage tend to include a cake (it's an obvious inclusion). The meetings I organised certainly did, although my mother-in-law kindly made ours.
There is no need for an agenda - same-sex marriage has a high enough profile in NI at the moment and the attitudes of some Christians there is all too clear from the fact their government keeps voting against the proposal Publicity on this is easy to get - you don't need to try to find a bakery that may or may not break the law and refuse to sell you a cake.
The cake was for a party to be held with the local Mayor about the campaign for same-sex marriage in NI, but there is no evidence Ashers was in anyway targetted by the group. The bakery was the closest to their office and at that time there was nothing in their shops or on their website to indicate they were a 'Christian bakery'. I can testify too, that meetings about same-sex marriage tend to include a cake (it's an obvious inclusion). The meetings I organised certainly did, although my mother-in-law kindly made ours.
There is no need for an agenda - same-sex marriage has a high enough profile in NI at the moment and the attitudes of some Christians there is all too clear from the fact their government keeps voting against the proposal Publicity on this is easy to get - you don't need to try to find a bakery that may or may not break the law and refuse to sell you a cake.
ok, I suppose noone can prove either way really, although it does seem a bit coincidental doesn't it?
Meaning the cake order the bakery turned down was in fact for quite a high profile event involving the Mayor etc to campaign for same sex marriage....
The simple truth is that religious beliefs must never come before the law. If it was up to me there would be a total seperation of church and state. No exmptions for the religious, no religious schools, no halal slaughter. Believing that ancient myths are real should be treated as a mental illness. Indoctrination of chilren into a particular faith should be outlawed.....oh and all religious organisations should be taxed like any ther business.
I have this vision of people attempting to push the boundaries of Freedom Of Speech via the medium of cake-decoration.
I recall, years ago, when Hazel Blears decided to ban all replica guns, the Sportsman's Association presented her with a cake in the shape of a handgun (labelled as a 'Chock 17' ) and then pointed out that she had actually committed a criminal offence, under her own new law, by accepting it.
ok, I suppose noone can prove either way really, although it does seem a bit coincidental doesn't it?
Meaning the cake order the bakery turned down was in fact for quite a high profile event involving the Mayor etc to campaign for same sex marriage....
Not really coincidental, no - an LGBT group holding a meeting with politicians about the campaign to legalise same-sex marriage wants to buy a cake (well known symbol of weddings) and goes to their nearest bakery to order it.. a bakery that at the time has no signs or any indication they are a 'Christian bakery', It just happened and as long as there are Christians with views like this, who think they have the right to discriminate because they are religious, it will keep happening.
It still means that the minister had a point who was quoted in the article.
Meaning how can you be ruled against for not promoting something that actually isn't allowed in NI right now!
The point I'm making isn't to do with what the gay person should have done, what the bakery have done, mainly what I've just posted above.
I'd think it would have been a fairer ruling if same sex marriage was allowed, but it isn't even allowed as yet....
That seme-sex marriage is isn't currently allowed is irrelevant - it is lawful to campaign for it to be allowed and the cake was part of a lawful campaign.
They do apply to everyone. However I don't suppose the copyright owners would be too bothered about that image being iced on to a cake for a private function.
As a matter of interest, do you support the idea of equal marriage?
I wasn't aware that copyright infringements were based on the perpetrator arbitrarily deciding whether or not the image owner 'would mind' if it was used.
As to your second point, civil partnerships offer exactly the same legal impact of marriage. Hence I can't understand why a couple would seek, to the point of changing the law, the blessing of an organisation that doesn't agree with what they are doing.
Now, I agree that many heterosexual people hypocritically get married in front of an organisation that they know little about. However, they do have to conform to the 'rules' of that organisation to receive it's blessing.
Like how if myself and my partner weren't Jewish or Muslim, we couldn't be married in their places of worship. That seems fair to me.
So you have gay couples marrying in a church, having their relationship blessed by a religion that disagrees with their union and where the people seeking the blessing, have contempt for the body blessing them.
It really is saying "I don't want their approval, I don't respect their approval and I am fully aware that they don't want to give their approval but it's my right to demand it regardless'.
It all seems a little petulant and kind of going against the wonder of partnerships, namely that it's meant to be between two people and shouldn't really require an external title to give it validation.
The Ashers supporters are probably pretty pleased with the judgement, they will now be hailed as martyrs by the Christian right and their case as evidence of the need for a conscious clause as advocated by the DUP and UKIP.
What I support is the laws of copyright applying to everyone. I believe that is called equality.
Yes and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the case as the cake was never made and that was never given as a reason. They gave their reason, chosen religious intolerance, which they don't seem to apply to any other section of society. They'd have damned few customers if they did. ..
I wasn't aware that copyright infringements were based on the perpetrator arbitrarily deciding whether or not the image owner 'would mind' if it was used.
It isn't. My point was whether it would in fact be a copyright infringement to ice an image on a cake for private use. The organisers presumably didn't think it would be, so the issue of infringement seems very much a side issue.
As to your second point, civil partnerships offer exactly the same legal impact of marriage. Hence I can't understand why a couple would seek, to the point of changing the law, the blessing of an organisation that doesn't agree with what they are doing..
Neither do I, but then marriage doesn't have to be a religious affair.
Comments
They used to throw them to the Lyons(cakes). lol
Gay marriage is not "illegal" in NI, it's just not possible yet.
Ashers Bakery is not a Catholic bakery...
I did think it suspicious that the cake was ordered from a bakery that is well known in the area for being run by strongly commited christians.
It can't happen, so illegality doesn't come into it!
The cake was for a party to be held with the local Mayor about the campaign for same-sex marriage in NI, but there is no evidence Ashers was in anyway targetted by the group. The bakery was the closest to their office and at that time there was nothing in their shops or on their website to indicate they were a 'Christian bakery'. I can testify too, that meetings about same-sex marriage tend to include a cake (it's an obvious inclusion). The meetings I organised certainly did, although my mother-in-law kindly made ours.
There is no need for an agenda - same-sex marriage has a high enough profile in NI at the moment and the attitudes of some Christians there is all too clear from the fact their government keeps voting against the proposal Publicity on this is easy to get - you don't need to try to find a bakery that may or may not break the law and refuse to sell you a cake.
Special on tuna and sweetcorn sandwiches perhaps?
Meaning the cake order the bakery turned down was in fact for quite a high profile event involving the Mayor etc to campaign for same sex marriage....
It still means that the minister had a point who was quoted in the article.
Meaning how can you be ruled against for not promoting something that actually isn't allowed in NI right now!
The point I'm making isn't to do with what the gay person should have done, what the bakery have done, mainly what I've just posted above.
I'd think it would have been a fairer ruling if same sex marriage was allowed, but it isn't even allowed as yet....
Wow, what a lovely person you must be.
I recall, years ago, when Hazel Blears decided to ban all replica guns, the Sportsman's Association presented her with a cake in the shape of a handgun (labelled as a 'Chock 17'
Not really coincidental, no - an LGBT group holding a meeting with politicians about the campaign to legalise same-sex marriage wants to buy a cake (well known symbol of weddings) and goes to their nearest bakery to order it.. a bakery that at the time has no signs or any indication they are a 'Christian bakery', It just happened and as long as there are Christians with views like this, who think they have the right to discriminate because they are religious, it will keep happening.
That seme-sex marriage is isn't currently allowed is irrelevant - it is lawful to campaign for it to be allowed and the cake was part of a lawful campaign.
Yes, sorry my mistake.
As to your second point, civil partnerships offer exactly the same legal impact of marriage. Hence I can't understand why a couple would seek, to the point of changing the law, the blessing of an organisation that doesn't agree with what they are doing.
Now, I agree that many heterosexual people hypocritically get married in front of an organisation that they know little about. However, they do have to conform to the 'rules' of that organisation to receive it's blessing.
Like how if myself and my partner weren't Jewish or Muslim, we couldn't be married in their places of worship. That seems fair to me.
So you have gay couples marrying in a church, having their relationship blessed by a religion that disagrees with their union and where the people seeking the blessing, have contempt for the body blessing them.
It really is saying "I don't want their approval, I don't respect their approval and I am fully aware that they don't want to give their approval but it's my right to demand it regardless'.
It all seems a little petulant and kind of going against the wonder of partnerships, namely that it's meant to be between two people and shouldn't really require an external title to give it validation.
Mon dieu!
Yes and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the case as the cake was never made and that was never given as a reason. They gave their reason, chosen religious intolerance, which they don't seem to apply to any other section of society. They'd have damned few customers if they did. ..
Neither do I, but then marriage doesn't have to be a religious affair.