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Marvel's Agent Carter

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    wowboywowboy Posts: 1,379
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    Wish someone would pick this up in UK. :(
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    Mike TeeveeMike Teevee Posts: 35,574
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    wowboy wrote: »
    Wish someone would pick this up in UK. :(

    Yeah it sucks that Channel 4 doesn't seem to be interested.

    I reckon there's a chance it could get picked up by Netflix UK, especially if they try to tie it in with the Daredevil launch.
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    Matt35Matt35 Posts: 30,132
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    Hope it doesn't go on Netflix otherwise I'd have to subscribe which I'm reluctant to do for one programme.
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    MikeAP001MikeAP001 Posts: 1,916
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    Reading the comments on AV Club there is speculation
    that she might be the blonde Black Widow, which would reverse the order of how they appeared in 616 universe.
    I heard the same rumor. Great character from the 1940s.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Widow_%28Claire_Voyant%29
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 150
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    The massacre that happened to the Russian soldiers sounded familiarly like the massacre that happened to the village that Skye/Daisy/Quake came from. Could there be a Doctor "Hyde" connection?
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    koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    The massacre that happened to the Russian soldiers sounded familiarly like the massacre that happened to the village that Skye/Daisy/Quake came from. Could there be a Doctor "Hyde" connection?

    I was thinking it would be good if we saw the immortal Nazi (forgot his name) in Agent Carter.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 150
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    I was thinking it would be good if we saw the immortal Nazi (forgot his name) in Agent Carter.

    Daniel Whiithall/Werner Reinhardt? Well he's locked up for at least 50 odd years in this time period but it would be cool.
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    koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    Daniel Whiithall/Werner Reinhardt? Well he's locked up for at least 50 odd years in this time period but it would be cool.

    Oh right I forgot. Shame.
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    Matt DMatt D Posts: 13,153
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    Matt D wrote: »
    I'd bet that there's more to her than "small town girl from Iowa", otherwise why cast Bridget Regan? Peggy already has Lyndsy Fonseca's character as a friend and neighbour, no need for another one.

    Still, not really much of a prediction - it was obvious because of the casting.


    The tagged speculation above is interesting...
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    FiercelyHipFiercelyHip Posts: 3,693
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    Yeah it sucks that Channel 4 doesn't seem to be interested.

    I reckon there's a chance it could get picked up by Netflix UK, especially if they try to tie it in with the Daredevil launch.

    Because of that reason, I think it's why Netflix would stay away from it from the time being, or at the very least until Daredevil and Jessica Jones have been released. It seems like the only way this show is getting seen in this country is through illegal downloads or DVD release. Would love for that to be proven wrong. Such a shame.

    I thought this past episode was the best yet. It's chugging alone nicely and as per Hayley Atwell carries the show with absolute charisma, humour and earnest all rolled into one.
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    SereniitySereniity Posts: 588
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    MikeAP001 wrote: »
    I heard the same rumor. Great character from the 1940s.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Widow_%28Claire_Voyant%29

    That would be so awesome!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 150
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    that she might be the blonde Black Widow, which would reverse the order of how they appeared in 616 universe.
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    MikeAP001MikeAP001 Posts: 1,916
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    Sereniity wrote: »
    That would be so awesome!

    Yes! We'd get the back story for not only the SSR turning into SHIELD but the bonus of
    the back story of the Black Widow Program before it even existed!

    Just as we get to see Peg and Howard and the Agents from the pre-SHIELD days; we now get to see Dottie as the KGB counterpart to the SSR who is probably the agent that inspires the formation of the Black Widow program from the RED ROOM. That would tie-in neatly with the Avengers and the scene where Coulson explains to Rogers that Cap was the first Super Soldier but there were other attempts to duplicate the formula. In the Marvel 616 world, the Black Widow and Red Guardian were recipients of serum similar to Erskine's serum. Maybe, those blood samples from Steve Rogers had something to do with it in the MCU? And, maybe we'll see not only a proto-Black Widow but a Red Guardian? And that might lead to others like the 1950s Cap or even Captain Britain?
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    koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    Reading the comments on AV Club there is speculation
    that she might be the blonde Black Widow, which would reverse the order of how they appeared in 616 universe.
    That would make sense with the way she moved when attacking that bloke.
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    koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    They are still laying on the sexism angle a bit too much for my liking.

    Now we have a hero male who just happens to be a coward. rolleyes.

    Also if you are going to have a girl knife and shot men then at least have them kill her rather than have 'women can do anything, Carter' say 'Don't she's just a child'. rolleyes.
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    koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    That would make sense with the way she moved when attacking that bloke.
    Well it seems she could be the BW as she is definitely Russian. I don't know her Origin story from the comics.
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    MikeAP001MikeAP001 Posts: 1,916
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    Well it seems she could be the BW as she is definitely Russian. I don't know her Origin story from the comics.

    From the 1940s see

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Widow_%28Claire_Voyant%29
    The BW was a Marvel antihero of the 1940s and this MCU version of her ties in nicely with her history:

    Black Widow (Claire Voyant)
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    First appearance Mystic Comics #4
    (August 1940)
    Created by George Kapitan
    Harry Sahle
    In-story information
    Alter ego Claire Voyant
    Team affiliations The Twelve
    Abilities Superhuman strength
    Enhanced endurance
    Teleportation
    Mental suggestion
    Flight
    Invisibility
    Appearance altering
    Death touch
    Immortality
    Ability to communicate with the dead and mystically regenerate or heal others

    Black Widow (Claire Voyant) is a fictional character appearing in comic books published by Marvel Comics. She is the first[citation needed] costumed, superpowered female comic book character. An antiheroine who kills evildoers in order to deliver their souls to Satan, her master, she first appears in Mystic Comics #4 (cover dated Aug. 1940), published by Marvel predecessor Timely Comics. Created by writer George Kapitan and artist Harry Sahle, she is unrelated to Marvel's later superspy character called Black Widow.

    Contents

    1 Publication history
    2 Fictional character biography
    3 Modern incarnation
    4 Personality
    5 Costume
    6 Historical significance
    7 Powers and abilities
    8 References
    9 External links

    Publication history

    The Black Widow makes five appearances during the period fans and historians call the Golden Age of comic books, all five written by George Kapitan. These short comics stories (the longest is eight pages, the shortest five) are spread among three different Timely anthology titles over a three-year period from 1940 to 1943.[1]

    Madame Claire Voyant is introduced in Mystic Comics #4 as "the strangest, most terrifying character in action picture magazines — the Black Widow. You've heard of the black widow spider — that evil creature whose bite spells doom. Now start the adventures of another black widow — a human tool of Satan whose very touch means death." Both Mystic Comics #4 and #5 (Aug. 1940, Mar. 1941) feature artwork by Harry Sahle (the stories are "Introducing the Black Widow", 7 pages, and "Garvey Lang", 8 pages, respectively).[2][3] Another Mystic Comics appearance in issue #7 (Dec. 1941) has art by Stan Drake ("Lewis & Sykes", 5 pages).[4] USA Comics #5 (Summer 1942) is penciled by Mike Sekowsky and inked by George Klein ("Murder Unlimited", 5 pages).[5] Her final Golden Age appearance in All Select Comics #1 (Fall 1943) has art tentatively attributed to Drake ("Blood Money", 5 pages);[6] this story is reprinted in 1974, along with the rest of the issue, by publisher Alan L. Light's company Flashback as Special Edition Reprints #14.

    Her next appearance occurs 51 years later, in a flashback cameo in one panel of issue #1 (Jan. 1994) of the mini-series Marvels ("A Time of Marvels", written by Kurt Busiek with art by Alex Ross),[7] and again nine years later (Feb. 2005), also in brief flashback, in Marvel Knights Spider-Man #9 ("The Last Stand", written by Mark Millar with art by Terry and Rachel Dodson).[7]

    The Black Widow returns, finally in full-length stories, albeit as part of an ensemble cast, beginning in 2008 in The Twelve (written by J. Michael Straczynski with art by Chris Weston). The character appeared in all 12 issues of The Twelve, in addition to a one-shot titled The Twelve: Spearhead.
    Fictional character biography

    In 1940, Claire Voyant is a spirit medium who communicates with the dead through supernatural means. While serving a family named the Waglers, she is possessed by Satan to put a curse on them. James, a member of that family, survives a subsequent car crash provoked by the spell, and, returning to Claire's quarters, guns her down.

    Voyant's soul goes to Hell, where Satan dresses her in her Black Widow costume. He also gives her the power to kill with a single touch of her fingers to the head (which leaves a branded "Black Widow mark"), and other mystical tricks. Satan (who, daringly for the time, is discreetly depicted as a nearly nude man) sends her back to Earth to avenge her death. After killing her murderer, she returns to Satan, who, no longer content to wait for evil souls to die a natural death and perhaps repent their sins in the interim, charges her with bringing those souls to him. "On the upper world are mortal creatures whose hearts are blackened with wickedness and corruption. You, the Black Widow, will bring their evil souls to me!"[8]

    She later kills corrupt arms manufacturers, crime boss Garvey Lang, members of a syndicate called Murder Unlimited, and the villain Ogor, while also healing Ogor's victim.[7]

    In Marvels, she is shown in flashback as part of a group of Timely's Golden Age characters aiding the Invaders against the Nazis.[9]
    Modern incarnation

    In The Twelve, Claire Voyant is retconned as becoming the Black Widow in 1928 after her sister is murdered. Standing over her sister's grave, she wishes for the power to avenge herself against the killer, and Satan responds.[10]

    Revived in the present day, along with 11 other heroes, after being in suspended animation since World War II, she recommences serving as an "instrument of vengeance" for an initially unidentified entity (though never actually referred to as Satan, the Black Widow's master is identified as "the devil" in later issues) and going on missions for that party.[11]
    Personality

    A recurrent character trait of the Black Widow in her Golden Age appearances is that she shows no hesitation or mercy when it comes to killing her victims, and no apparent remorse over depriving them of their lives and sending their souls to Hell for eternal torment. Whether this ruthless aspect of her personality is original to Claire Voyant or a result of her resurrection by Satan as the Black Widow is unclear. (In her modern day appearances in The Twelve she is much less a willing killer, and is shown crying after killing.)

    In Golden Age appearances she does possess great compassion for those she perceives as innocent victims of evil, and a willingness to use her powers to protect and even heal them. This is shown most clearly in her fifth and last Golden Age appearance[12] when she is sent by Satan to harvest the soul of Ogor, a charlatan faith healer who has been stealing money from those who come to him for cures. After confronting Ogor and causing his death – though he instantly dies of fright and heart failure rather than the Black Widow’s signature death touch, the result is the same, his blackened soul goes instantly to Hell – she then takes the time, and uses her powers, to regenerate the amputated leg of a young boy named Pepito, one of Ogor’s last victims he had promised to heal.[13]
    Costume

    During her five brief appearances in the Golden Age, the Black Widow, perhaps believing that, even after death, there is no reason for a girl to wear the same clothes every day (also perhaps indicating a lack of attention to detail and dedication to continuity on behalf of her artists and colorists) wears four distinctly different costumes, not only with different designs but different color schemes – and has three different hair colors.

    Arguably her most iconic Golden Age costume, and certainly the most complex design-wise, is her first, shown most prominently in the frequently republished panel where Satan resurrects Claire Voyant as the Black Widow. Appearing only in Mystic Comics #4, it consists of a purple bodysuit with spider design on the belly, a green-and-blue striped cape, and red boots with yellow flame designs around the tops.[14]

    For her second appearance in Mystic Comics #5, the red boots with yellow flame trim survive, however the bodysuit becomes plain black with no spider design, and the color of her cape changes to solid red.[15]

    In Mystic Comics #7 the color scheme and basic layout of the costume remains the same, however the bodysuit acquires dark blue highlights, perhaps intended to still denote black, and the red cape now has flame designs around its hem. However both the “flames” and the cape itself are the same shade of red. While this might be considered a different costume than the one in Mystic Comics #5 since it is different in its particulars, it might also be argued it is the same outfit, but with more details added. In closeup, we now see that the cape is held in place with a circular, gold-colored pin inset with a death’s head skull.[16] Her hair remains blond for all three Mystic Comics appearances.

    In USA Comics #5 the costume, design-wise and by color scheme, changes radically. Perhaps in tune with the comics’ patriotic theme, the outfit’s colors are now red, white and blue. The costume itself consists of a bright red bodysuit, a cape (colored either white or blue depending on the panel in question) with upturned Peter Pan collar, and white buccaneer boots. Her hair is now pure white.[17]

    For her final Golden Age appearance in All Select Comics #1, the costume morphs into a blue bodysuit that, unlike any of her previous outfits, covers her legs as well as torso and arms, and a yellow cape. The boots with flame trim return, however both the boots and “flames” are colored yellow. The Black Widow is now a redhead.[18]

    Throughout the majority of The Twelve she wears a fifth outfit, a minor redesign of the first, consisting of a dark purple bodysuit with, in a lighter shade of purple, a spider design on the belly. Her boots are the same dark purple as the bodysuit, with no “flames”; the cape is light purple, and likewise has no flame trim.[19]

    By the end of the series, she has switched over to a sixth costume, which is gray, covers her entire body except head and hands, and features a fine spiderweb pattern over much of its surface.[20]
    Historical significance

    Introduced in Mystic Comics #4 (Aug. 1940), the Black Widow is comic books' first costumed, superpowered female character. While writer-artist Fletcher Hanks' Fantomah, who has the superhero tropes of a dual identity and superpowers, debuted earlier, in Fiction House's Jungle Comics #1 (Feb. 1940), she lacks a distinctive costume.[21] While The Woman In Red also predates her, debuting in Standard Comics' Thrilling Comics #2 (March 1940), that character has a distinctive costume but no superpowers.[22] Russell Stamm's Invisible Scarlet O'Neil, a non-costumed character with the superpower of invisibility, debuted in a newspaper comic strip, rather than a comic book, on June 3, 1940.
    Powers and abilities

    Before her transformation into the Black Widow, Claire Voyant has undefined psychic powers enabling her to communicate with the spirits of the dead. Resurrected by Satan after her murder, the Black Widow has been granted supernatural powers allowing her to harvest the souls of evildoers for her master. She is able to teleport between Hell and the mortal world. Having already died, she is apparently immune to further attempts to kill her. In three separate Golden Age appearances, she is shot repeatedly and the bullets have no effect.[23] She can mentally plant suggestions in the minds of others, possesses superhuman strength of an undefined nature, enhanced endurance, flight, invisibility, appearance alteration, and the ability to regenerate or heal others mystically.

    She also has a death touch power. When the Black Widow touches one of her victims on the forehead, there is a burst of flame, they are instantly struck dead and their soul is sent to Hell. At the same time a mark is left in the shape of a spider.

    In her modern appearances in The Twelve, she exhibits the ability to fly and superhuman strength sufficient to rip human bodies to pieces. Apparently she still possesses her death touch power, however the only time she is shown attempting its use, it fails to work on a non-human target.[24]

    Satan claims he has made her immortal.[25] Within the context of The Twelve when Claire Voyant becomes the Black Widow in 1928 she appears to be in her mid-20s.[26] When she goes into suspended animation 17 years later in 1945 she apparently hasn't aged at all.[27] In this case, it seems that the Prince of Lies may have told the truth.

    Her story ties in nicely with the later day versions because the writers can have the males whom she beat attribute her abilities to supernatural causes... And, Souza's been looking for a tall blond murderer and spy. :D
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    koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    MikeAP001 wrote: »
    From the 1940s see

    Her story ties in nicely with the later day versions because the writers can have the males whom she beat attribute her abilities to supernatural causes... And, Souza's been looking for a tall blond murderer and spy. :D

    Cheers for the info, I like the way they are tying things up with the present.
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    claire2281claire2281 Posts: 17,283
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    They are still laying on the sexism angle a bit too much for my liking.

    Now we have a hero male who just happens to be a coward. rolleyes.

    So? Are there too few non-coward male heroes out there? He makes a refreshing change in fact.
    Also if you are going to have a girl knife and shot men then at least have them kill her rather than have 'women can do anything, Carter' say 'Don't she's just a child'. rolleyes.

    It was nothing to do with her gender but they fact she was a child.
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    koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    claire2281 wrote: »
    So? Are there too few non-coward male heroes out there? He makes a refreshing change in fact.



    It was nothing to do with her gender but they fact she was a child.

    Wow I never considered that. rolleyes
    They are painting the sexism angle on thicker than the paint on the Golden Gate Bridge.

    We get it, the 50s was a sexist time.
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    FiercelyHipFiercelyHip Posts: 3,693
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    Wow I never considered that. rolleyes
    They are painting the sexism angle on thicker than the paint on the Golden Gate Bridge.

    We get it, the 50s was a sexist time.

    And I love the show for not backing down from that. It's done in a very classy manner and shows progression. Dooley's in particular is the best depicted because he is shown as a man who is good at his job, and gives respect where due.

    Although on the other hand I hated Thompsons storyline because I think they writers thought it was a way humanise him and show him not being what he was. In actuality it made me hate him more and he should be tried for war crimes or some such after him telling the truth. PTSD not withstanding.

    The depiction of the sexism is one aspect I do not have a problem with.

    Anyway episode five was the best yet. Peggy was in her absolute element and it was nice to see fake NY get some rain. Thought it really added to the external scenes. Nice to see some red room background as well.
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    koantemplationkoantemplation Posts: 101,293
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    And I love the show for not backing down from that. It's done in a very classy manner and shows progression. Dooley's in particular is the best depicted because he is shown as a man who is good at his job, and gives respect where due.

    Although on the other hand I hated Thompsons storyline because I think they writers thought it was a way humanise him and show him not being what he was. In actuality it made me hate him more and he should be tried for war crimes or some such after him telling the truth. PTSD not withstanding.

    The depiction of the sexism is one aspect I do not have a problem with.

    Anyway episode five was the best yet. Peggy was in her absolute element and it was nice to see fake NY get some rain. Thought it really added to the external scenes. Nice to see some red room background as well.

    Talk about creating a straw man.

    Who wants them to 'back down'?

    Their portrayal of sexism is worse than portraying Cowboys and Indians with the Indians being the bad guys.

    It is poor writing and characterisation and is spoiling the show.

    And trust them to write a woman as not wanting to kill a child who just happens to stab and shoot men, and even killed another child (although they didn't know that).

    That is sexist.

    I've no problem with them portraying sexism, but at least do it with some subtlety and lacking hypocrisy.
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    FiercelyHipFiercelyHip Posts: 3,693
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    Talk about creating a straw man.

    Who wants them to 'back down'?

    Their portrayal of sexism is worse than portraying Cowboys and Indians with the Indians being the bad guys.

    It is poor writing and characterisation and is spoiling the show.

    And trust them to write a woman as not wanting to kill a child who just happens to stab and shoot men, and even killed another child (although they didn't know that).

    That is sexist.

    I've no problem with them portraying sexism, but at least do it with some subtlety and lacking hypocrisy.

    It's a figure of speech.

    Would it be sexist if that had come from a man? I don't really consider the empathetic aspect of that scene something to be taken as sexist but acknowledge your point. There's many ways that could be argued, they weren't exactly sure what they were walking into. I have a feeling though there were only so many children they could kill on US television before the network compliance regulators stepped in.

    I just don't think it's spoiling the show in that sense. In fact my biggest issue is for a self-proclaimed feminist show its sorely lacking in depth on female characters outside of Peggy.

    I just don't really see the sexist aspect from the male characters as good and bad. The agents are set up to be good at their jobs, which they are shown to be. Like Dooley I used as an example. And while I didn't like Thompson's efforts the character building has been fairly strong really. I do wish however, they considered adding social issues of that time into the mix also as that would perhaps allow for it to be painted in less broader strokes, shall I say.

    All in all I think despite it all it's a great action adventure and find this to be one of the few things to consider a show ruiner.
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    Matt DMatt D Posts: 13,153
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    And trust them to write a woman as not wanting to kill a child who just happens to stab and shoot men, and even killed another child (although they didn't know that).

    Had she?

    Wasn't the scene at the start, with one girl killing another, a flashback of Dottie's past training?
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    CorwinCorwin Posts: 16,607
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    Matt D wrote: »
    Had she?

    Wasn't the scene at the start, with one girl killing another, a flashback of Dottie's past training?

    Yes that was a flashback to Dottie's time in the program.

    Though I'm guessing you probably only graduated from the program after killing one of your classmates so the girl Carter and the others met may well have killed other children as well.
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