When we lived in France we knew Brit expats who had moved to France when their children were toddlers or very young. They were immersed in the French school system, learned to speak French and apart from their parents they spoke mostly French during the day, with their friends. These kids were teens and were more articulate in French than they were in English because they'd left England at a stage when their vocabulary was developing. The only english they spoke was at home to their parents which pretty much limits the development of language skills. They also could only write in French, very little in English. One man told me he found it tricky to speak to his own granddaughter who was 16 and who'd been taken to live in France when she was 3.
The formal name for this is language attrition, and it occurs in lots of contexts,
I am sure all the individual anecdotes on here, particularly those attempting to debunk the existence of language attrition, are interesting, but if anyone wants to check out any academic research this page links to various publications
Language attrition is prevalent among native speakers if they stop speaking their native language before puberty. It is an entirely different situation for people who are already full grown adults when they stop speaking their native language. They never lose their ability, even after decades of disuse. Of course, the accent could change, but that can happen anyway if you move to another country but still continue speaking your native language, like Brits moving to Australia for example.
My aunt has lived in Spain for just over 20 years, she still has a Brummie accent but she sometimes forgets English words and told me she even thinks in Spanish!
My aunt has lived in Spain for just over 20 years, she still has a Brummie accent but she sometimes forgets English words and told me she even thinks in Spanish!
How long do you think it would take her to get back up to speed? Very, very quickly.
I was in Japan from when I was 15 until roughly 23, and it was a huge struggle when I came home to my parents in this country. I couldn't even understand their British Japanese dialect. I adjusted after maybe a month. I never got the fluency in Japanese back since then, though. The fluency in English I had before Japan was also lost.
So I'm still not 100% fluent in both languages, especially grammar and written. My grammar and sometimes word choices in either language tend to screw up when I'm tired or upset.
This is more to do with my skills or capabilities, though. My brother - who's been living in Japan for 32 years, and often went without English for months - has no problem with switching between those two languages, and still hasn't lost his fluency in either language. Edited: in case it has some relevance, I've been bilingual since birth.
I don't know about adults but my son when he was younger spent a summer with my in-laws in Italy and come home hardly speaking or understanding a word of English. It was heartbreaking. Took us about two months to get communicating again and of course now he's perfectly fluent with a British accent. Since then I've never let him go back over on his own (ie. without me).
Although I don't know if this counts as he was bilingual since birth and was born in Italy (80% raised in the UK/Ireland) so I suppose you could call both languages his mother tongue.
ETA: My partner tells me he now thinks in English despite the majority of his friends here being Italian and speaking on Skype to his family almost daily. So even though he uses his native language with family, friends and his son every day, living in English-speaking countries for the past 14 years has had an effect. His spoken English is flawless and while he does have a slight accent, people find it difficult to pinpoint it. So I'd say if he didn't have that daily Italian communication, it's possible he would lose a lot of it over time. Sometimes he struggles to find the right translation when communicating between Brits & Italians.
I don't know about adults but my son when he was younger spent a summer with my in-laws in Italy and come home hardly speaking or understanding a word of English.
That never happened to me! I've spent the summer in Italy as a child, not speaking English except to my brother. However my Italian (which was dialect anyway) didn't improve, while my English was unchanged. Some people are just terrible at languages.
(And the sad thing is that I've never been able to communicate properly with my parents. Their English wasn't good enough (and it would be weird talking in English) and the Italian, especially mine, was too uneducated to be able to have a high level conversation.)
A little girl I know was babysat by her grandparents before and after nursery weekdays and ended up speaking English with an accent as well as being bilingual. It was really cute but she lost the accent when she started school full time.
I think it's not that hard for a native language to get rusty if you never or rarely use it.
I used to live with Syrians who would speak a different language all the time, that was less than a year and I felt I was going a bit mental in the flat sometimes, I can only imagine what 5 years would do.
Language attrition is prevalent among native speakers if they stop speaking their native language before puberty. It is an entirely different situation for people who are already full grown adults when they stop speaking their native language. They never lose their ability, even after decades of disuse. Of course, the accent could change, but that can happen anyway if you move to another country but still continue speaking your native language, like Brits moving to Australia for example.
I notice even Sean Connery has acquired mild American overtones to his Scottish accent. Are some accents harder to lose than others? People such as Clive James, Rolf Harris, or Germaine Greer seem to have retained their Australian accent despite having lived in England for decades.
Also there are people such as John Barrowman who can switch accents convincingly, although it seems his default accent is American. I think he left Scotland in his teens?
Did he migrate with his German-speaking parents? Then he'd have been exposed to German for many more years, unless his parents switched to speaking English at home, which would have been strange.
It's not that strange in his generation. In the 50's and 60s those who migrated to Canada tried their hardest to assimilate. I know Italians, Germans, Japanese families where the families native language is a non-starter. The men worked outside the home, long hours, the wives usually stayed home until the last child entered full time school and then went to work (usually in unskilled work). The children went through and English speaking school system and spoke English at home.
Growing up it wasn't unusual to see a 7 or 8 year old "translator" at parent evenings at school.
My husbands youngest brother who was born in Canada, speaks no German and has very limited skills verbally. None of the brothers are fluent or comfortable.
The point in these families was they had moved to Canada for a new life and that meant a new language.
My mother moved to England from Germany when she was 18, and even though there were sometimes breaks of 6 or 7 years between going back for a couple of weeks she never had any problems switching from English to German.
I think a person's language skills can deteriorate through lack of use, even one's native language.
I moved to the UK in 2001, and English is now my main language. I think in English, even dream in English (though, oddly enough, I still count in Dutch ). When I speak with my family, sometimes I struggle to find the right words, because I have to translate my thoughts into Dutch. When I went over to visit my family, though, after a few days there I eased into it once more.
My spelling and grammar have been affected the most. It's a bit embarrassing when you have to Google words you used to know...
I and colleagues have had problems after just a few weeks in another country.
Using 'Simple' English (reduced vocabulary), in a different manner, avoiding slang all the time, meant that at the end of a long day it could take a while to converse normally with UK colleagues.
I remember a Swedish guy who played for the team I support in the 1980s turned down a commentating gig for Swedish TV because he's been so long in Scotland he'd forgotten quite a lot of Swedish words, grammar and diction.
Comments
Language attrition is prevalent among native speakers if they stop speaking their native language before puberty. It is an entirely different situation for people who are already full grown adults when they stop speaking their native language. They never lose their ability, even after decades of disuse. Of course, the accent could change, but that can happen anyway if you move to another country but still continue speaking your native language, like Brits moving to Australia for example.
How long do you think it would take her to get back up to speed? Very, very quickly.
I was in Japan from when I was 15 until roughly 23, and it was a huge struggle when I came home to my parents in this country. I couldn't even understand their British Japanese dialect. I adjusted after maybe a month. I never got the fluency in Japanese back since then, though. The fluency in English I had before Japan was also lost.
So I'm still not 100% fluent in both languages, especially grammar and written. My grammar and sometimes word choices in either language tend to screw up when I'm tired or upset.
This is more to do with my skills or capabilities, though. My brother - who's been living in Japan for 32 years, and often went without English for months - has no problem with switching between those two languages, and still hasn't lost his fluency in either language. Edited: in case it has some relevance, I've been bilingual since birth.
Although I don't know if this counts as he was bilingual since birth and was born in Italy (80% raised in the UK/Ireland) so I suppose you could call both languages his mother tongue.
ETA: My partner tells me he now thinks in English despite the majority of his friends here being Italian and speaking on Skype to his family almost daily. So even though he uses his native language with family, friends and his son every day, living in English-speaking countries for the past 14 years has had an effect. His spoken English is flawless and while he does have a slight accent, people find it difficult to pinpoint it. So I'd say if he didn't have that daily Italian communication, it's possible he would lose a lot of it over time. Sometimes he struggles to find the right translation when communicating between Brits & Italians.
That never happened to me! I've spent the summer in Italy as a child, not speaking English except to my brother. However my Italian (which was dialect anyway) didn't improve, while my English was unchanged. Some people are just terrible at languages.
(And the sad thing is that I've never been able to communicate properly with my parents. Their English wasn't good enough (and it would be weird talking in English) and the Italian, especially mine, was too uneducated to be able to have a high level conversation.)
I think it's not that hard for a native language to get rusty if you never or rarely use it.
I notice even Sean Connery has acquired mild American overtones to his Scottish accent. Are some accents harder to lose than others? People such as Clive James, Rolf Harris, or Germaine Greer seem to have retained their Australian accent despite having lived in England for decades.
It's not that strange in his generation. In the 50's and 60s those who migrated to Canada tried their hardest to assimilate. I know Italians, Germans, Japanese families where the families native language is a non-starter. The men worked outside the home, long hours, the wives usually stayed home until the last child entered full time school and then went to work (usually in unskilled work). The children went through and English speaking school system and spoke English at home.
Growing up it wasn't unusual to see a 7 or 8 year old "translator" at parent evenings at school.
My husbands youngest brother who was born in Canada, speaks no German and has very limited skills verbally. None of the brothers are fluent or comfortable.
The point in these families was they had moved to Canada for a new life and that meant a new language.
Its based on something, though. Must be.
Its based on something, though. Must be. Like the film "Who" based on an Algis Budrys story.
I moved to the UK in 2001, and English is now my main language. I think in English, even dream in English (though, oddly enough, I still count in Dutch
My spelling and grammar have been affected the most. It's a bit embarrassing when you have to Google words you used to know...
Using 'Simple' English (reduced vocabulary), in a different manner, avoiding slang all the time, meant that at the end of a long day it could take a while to converse normally with UK colleagues.
Just heard on ABC News, that's just what he did.
Nooooo, really?! Ya don't say. And here I thought Brody was for rizzles.
I don't know if you realised, but contextualisation doesn't need to be real.