Madonna is musically limited but extremely savvy. I really don't understand why someone with clearly some talent would limit themselves to wanting to be a Madonna clone. That's a bit like Marco Pierre White dressing up as a clown, opening a burger joint to emulate McDonalds - not only is it going to end up in failure (taking on a established brand) it's also a complete waste of his talent!
I think people underestimate Madonna's ability. She might not have the strongest voice but she can sing. Her dancing skills speak for themselves. She is also a gifted song writer and every producer she works with are always vocal about how hands on she is in the production of her music. She is not only savvy enough to know what works and what doesn't but she is also brave enough to take risks that would kill the career of anyone else. That is without factoring in her many iconic looks. Each one relevant to the era they happened in without going too OTT to the point of desperation. Sex is just Madonna. Its who she has always been and always will be. Even at 90 I bet she is still flashing her tits just to annoy people who think its not acceptable. That's why she is Madonna.
Gaga tried to be a Madonna clone but while Gaga is a stronger vocalist she lacks Madonna's creative talents but most of all, Gaga doesn't have Madonna's beauty.
I think Gaga's lowest moment during the whole copycat thing was the BTW performance at the Grammy's. It was bad enough BTW sounded like Express Yourself without Gaga coming out on stage with Madonna's iconic pony tail to boot. The whole thing looked like a tribute performance. That is when the beginning of the end began.
I think people underestimate Madonna's ability. She might not have the strongest voice but she can sing. Her dancing skills speak for themselves. She is also a gifted song writer and every producer she works with are always vocal about how hands on she is in the production of her music. She is not only savvy enough to know what works and what doesn't but she is also brave enough to take risks that would kill the career of anyone else. That is without factoring in her many iconic looks. Each one relevant to the era they happened in without going too OTT to the point of desperation. Sex is just Madonna. Its who she has always been and always will be. Even at 90 I bet she is still flashing her tits just to annoy people who think its not acceptable. That's why she is Madonna.
Gaga tried to be a Madonna clone but while Gaga is a stronger vocalist she lacks Madonna's creative talents but most of all, Gaga doesn't have Madonna's beauty.
I think Gaga's lowest moment during the whole copycat thing was the BTW performance at the Grammy's. It was bad enough BTW sounded like Express Yourself without Gaga coming out on stage with Madonna's iconic pony tail to boot. The whole thing looked like a tribute performance. That is when the beginning of the end began.
Whatever.
Gaga just decides to be quirky rather than accentuate the best of her features, which doesn't make a lot of sense.
I think people underestimate Madonna's ability. She might not have the strongest voice but she can sing. Her dancing skills speak for themselves. She is also a gifted song writer and every producer she works with are always vocal about how hands on she is in the production of her music. She is not only savvy enough to know what works and what doesn't but she is also brave enough to take risks that would kill the career of anyone else. That is without factoring in her many iconic looks. Each one relevant to the era they happened in without going too OTT to the point of desperation. Sex is just Madonna. Its who she has always been and always will be. Even at 90 I bet she is still flashing her tits just to annoy people who think its not acceptable. That's why she is Madonna.
Gaga tried to be a Madonna clone but while Gaga is a stronger vocalist she lacks Madonna's creative talents but most of all, Gaga doesn't have Madonna's beauty.
I think Gaga's lowest moment during the whole copycat thing was the BTW performance at the Grammy's. It was bad enough BTW sounded like Express Yourself without Gaga coming out on stage with Madonna's iconic pony tail to boot. The whole thing looked like a tribute performance. That is when the beginning of the end began.
Good post! Underrated songwriter and producer. All her producers have stated that.
Gaga ONE song alone had 10 songwriters! To me she just a manufactured creation. When her people that were part of her at the beginning left her, she has become crap and that says it all! She doesn't have the talent!
Lady Gaga dominated headlines and Forums less than a year ago with the release of Art Pop and the announcement of her Art Rave Tour yet within a Year the UK appears to have lost interest. Her latest album Cheek to Cheek after only two weeks after just scraping into the Top 10 in week one has plummeted neither of her single releases from the album came close to even hitting the Top 100 let alone Top 40. Her alleged Sold Out Pop Rave Tour appears to have not quite be sold out as Live Nation would like everyone to think Ticket Master are still trying to sell tickets third party websites are flogging tickets not at the usual extortionate prices but well below face value as many sellers try to get something back rather than nothing. the European and American tour dates that Live Nation claim to have been sold out show rather dodgy well below capacity attendance figures although claiming all tickets released sold.
The debacle of her releasing material hasn't helped with the constant delays pulling release dates creating a huge hype and then not delivering.
Her Little Monsters didn't help at the height of her fame but they even seem to have all gone quiet on websites and forums. Is Lady Gaga the biggest career crash for an artist. Usually an artists popularity gradually drops over consecutive years but in her case it appears to be the biggest and quickest fall from Pop Supremecy to ?.
Good post! Underrated songwriter and producer. All her producers have stated that.
Gaga ONE song alone had 10 songwriters! To me she just a manufactured creation. When her people that were part of her at the beginning left her, she has become crap and that says it all! She doesn't have the talent!
MDNA was chock full of songwriters. There are two songs that had seven and eight writers work on them. Three is the minimum amount of songwriters who worked on the album. Madonna hasn't had a single solo writer credit on any of her albums since Like a Virgin in the mid-1980s. Think about it, that’s nearly 30 years since Madonna actually wrote a song on one of her albums by herself. She's given far too much credit by her fans.
The truth is she's only ever been as good as the highly talented people she surrounds herself with. She's incredibly limited in terms of actual musical talent. It's no surprise that her weakest album is her debut, an album which includes five tracks written solely by her. She's never had that many solo writer credits since, and with good reason. In other words, she wouldn't have the back catalogue she does if she hadn't been teamed up with highly successful and talented songwriters and producers back in the early 1980s at the insistence of her record label. Madonna is no different to any other pop star out there. She's just as manufactured as Lady Gaga, Britney Spears and Katy Perry.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with singers and bands working alongside writers and producers because in reality most do, but I do have a problem with the Madonna fans who give her all the credit and claim she's a musical genius when she isn't because she relies so heavily on the talent of other people. George Martin produced most of The Beatles music, but the band wrote 99.9% of the songs by themselves whereas 99.9% of Madonna's discography wouldn't exist without the many other writers and producers involved. That's a fact. It's not as though she sat down and wrote Like a Prayer or Frozen by herself in the way that Paul McCartney sat down and wrote Yesterday and Let It Be. It's true that some of the most legendary entertainers never wrote any of their own material or only a very small amount (Barbra Streisand, Tina Turner, Whitney Houston) but they all have/had vocal talent to counteract that whereas Madonna can't even sing that well.
Madonna has made a big career out of relatively little musical and vocal talent. A lot of fans refer to her as the most talented just because she's the biggest selling when in reality it doesn't work like that. The other thing I find peculiar is the Madonna fans who waste no time pointing fingers at other singers for things that Madonna can also be criticised for, i.e. the OP remarking that a Lady Gaga song had ten songwriter credits even though several Madonna songs had nearly that many. Stones in glass houses!
To be an icon of the Madonna level takes more than just songwriting (or singing unfortunately)
Where Gaga has royally f****d up is in her marketing and publicity.
Its been a cocophony of **** ups publicity wise for Gaga.
Firstly the wacky dress-ups & persona. I can see how she wouldve thought she was onto a winner here, after all- it worked for Bowie (and to a lesser extend Madonna).
The difference is that with Madonna (& Bowie) they always let the audience know it was just a game of dressing up. Madonna always let her personality show, despite the many image changes. Stephanie hides behind a persona. So did Bowie, but he changed the persona several times in the 70's. Stephanie has only one- Lady gaga.
Secondly the changing imagery was too frequent.
If you look at how Madonna's style she would present a new image each era, but it was an established image for each album: the hip boy toy of like a Virgin, the sexy vamp for like a prayer era, the earth mother for Ray of Light, the gym bunnie for Confessions etc.
Gaga however is ALL OVER THE PLACE image wise, throwing everything out of the wardrobe, bombarding the public with a stream of unconnected imagery. Eventually its gotten tiresome.
Theres other issues other than imagery: Songs not appearing when they should (or appearing as promo singles, not the real thing), vids not appearing when they should, (DWYW), and her major issue- wildly over-hyping herself & her music.
Wildly exaggerating the quality of her music has given her an Emperors New Clothes type perception by the public. Albums are being hyped as "game changers" and when they appear they're just pretty reasonable bog standard pop records.
It seems the praise went to her head & she has started incorporating things like performance art into her album campaigns (What part of her thought young fans would embrace performance art en masse?? Its always been a niche market & always will be).
She also has a problem in that she cannot deal with criticism or blips very well. She takes herself very seriously & gets openly upset by criticism, but it is part & parcel of the industry she's in. I suggest at her level its just best to carry on with a "business as usual" attitude during blips in her career.
She did not handle the BtW/express Yourself controversy very well, she could have laughed it off, or made some dry remark of the "imitation is the highest form of flattery" type. Compared to someone like Beyonce, who has let the downturns in her career ride over her, she seems to be very hyper sensitive. Being clearly bitter about Katy Perry outselling her makes her sound jealous, and this is not a good impression to give the public. its so much better just to "paint that smile on" and carry on with gritted teeth as Im sure many others have to when theyre a beaten in record sales.
IN interviews she seems to take herself very seriously & seems cold & a bit remote. She seems quite unrelatable in my opinion. THis doesnt help with enabling people to make an emotional connection with her,
It's hard for anyone to have sustainable success these days, one album & you're over . .
All the pantomime dame comedy costumes that come with Gaga don't help, it's unsustainable, plus we the public just get bored of someone wearing a giant potato on their head . . It looks great, right . . ?
And if the music is sh*t, well it's thank-you & goodnite. .
Madonna isn't a particularly good singer, and IMO she is no longer a particularly good dancer. She looked a bit stiff at the Superbowl. I could be age because she certainly used to be good. However, she is a brilliant entertainer, and is renowned for knowing how to play the fame game (unlike Gaga, who thought she knew how to play it). She also works very hard to make sure she puts on a good show, unlike Gaga who is overweight and lazy and doesn't even bother to learn dance routines. She makes the most bizarre movements on stage and probably thinks she can pass it off as quirky.
Madonna knows she's not that talented - as she herself said, it's what's inside that's special. Gaga, on the other hand, portrays herself as a female hybrid of Beethoven and Jesus, when she is no better than any other pop star. The only difference between Gaga and others is her delusional narcissism and boasting.
The only thing Gaga has that's better than Madonna is her voice is technically somewhat superior (yet it's still unpleasant). Unlike Madonna, Gaga can't dance, isn't disciplined, has no natural stage presence or pizzazz, isn't media savvy, isn't fashionable, isn't creative, and isn't real. It's hilarious that you can't even mention gaga without the conversation turning to Madonna at some point.
Gaga's voice, which is the beginning and end of her talent, is so over-rated. She's just the best of a bad bunch compared to Britney, Katy Perry, Kesha etc. Her voice is horrifically nasal. She sounds like she has a cold and her breath smells. Her "piano skills" are also over-rated. She's only a beginner, and that's being generous.
I’m always dubious of multiple writers working on one track because it can mean that someone has added as little as one or two words to a song. When there are three plus songwriters working alongside Madonna, how much input has she really had in the creative process? It’s not like she’s Kate Bush who wrote and composed every song on The Kick Inside while still a teenager. Kate has also produced albums by herself. Madonna has control over who she wants to work with, the sound she wants, the style, etc. of an album, but she’s limited in terms of what she can do in the studio and needs all the help she can get in the creative process purely because she doesn’t have the talent to see a project through by herself. Several writers and producers who have worked with Madonna have spoken about how involved she is with her music, but there have also been several writers and producers who have spoken about how little she was involved in the creative process when they worked with her. At the end of the day my point still stands that 99.9% of her discography wouldn't exist had she not teamed up with the many other talented people who made those songs possible.
Like I said, there’s nothing wrong with this. Singers using outside writers and producers far outweigh the singers who write, compose and produce their music by themselves. All I’m saying is Madonna is given far too much credit because in reality she’s a manufactured pop star who needs the talent of other people just as much as Katy Perry, Rihanna, Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus do. I will give Madonna credit for being an incredibly shrewd and no-nonsense businesswoman. She knows how to sell herself and what little talent she actually has. But the reality is she’s a very limited songwriter, an average singer, an average dancer, she’s never been particularly beautiful, and she’s sourced a lot of her ideas from other singers and art forms. She’s in no way underrated. She’s vastly overrated. She might be an incredibly successful pop star, but she's not the be-all and end-all when it comes to music.
I am personally not bothered about how much input Madonna has into her songwriting, but she does have a hand in it and doesn't let others do it all for her.
Madonna never takes herself too seriously and openly said she isn't the best singer and dancer. You have to admire her for that.
Yes she is influenced by a lot of existing sources, but Madonna never ever claims sole credit. Not like Beyonce. But Madonna embraced these existing sources to a new generation and it never felt like she was mimicking, but giving a much respectable tribute to whatever she was influenced by. Marilyn Monroe being a huge example. But once Madonna became older, she would put these old hollywood inspirations to the side and embrace a new whole load of other inspirations. Spirtuality in Ray of light, westerns in Music, politics in American dad and bringing back Disco to a modern era in Confessions.
I don't think people hail Madonna as a musical genius. It's what she has done with what she claims she hasn't really got is what has allowed her to be the legend she is today. She wasn't giving us disposable crappy 80's pop. She was hitting into issues no one else was. Aids being one, as well as embracing the LGBT lifestyle that was something people felt should of been closed doors, where as she was bringing it into mainstream pop music through performances and music videos being played 100 times a day.
Madonna never tried make pop complicated or something revoloutionary. She did whatever frame of mind she was in at that time.
The fact Madonna never tried too hard is another reason why she has remained. If you try too hard, it stinks of desperation. Which is what Gaga does.
I always laugh when people try to claim Madonna is manufactured. She was moulded. There is a different. Madonna was spotted for her talents which meant people put a lot of work into her because she just had *IT*. Madonna was always destined for fame. She was built for it. Two different teams spent years moulding Madonna with kid gloves before she ever released a single because they knew she was going to be the next big thing. It couldn't have been any other female off the street. It really was always about Madonna and only Madonna.
Also the fact she has never done drugs or even had a breakdown despite her HUGE level of fame speaks volumes about how strong minded she is as a person. To survive that Sex era took guts! No one else could have done what Madonna did. It had to be Madonna. It was all about her. Not the team around her. Madonna cut ties pretty much early on with all her original team yet continued to go from strength to strength without them. Gaga ditched her original crew and her career has gone down the pan. So who would you say out of the two knew what they were doing and was more in control?
Secondly, Ray Of Light is such a masterpiece of work that putting Madonna and manufactured into the same sentence fails because a music puppet could never produce an album as great as that. William Orbit even said she was behind most of the album as she had a vision of how it had to sound and wasn't happy until it was right. She actually dropped plans to include long term pal Pat Leonard on the album because she knew him and her wouldn't create what she wanted for that record. So while some of her recent efforts might not be as good as her previous, Madonna is always on top of her game. Where MDNA the album lacked the tour itself made up for it.
I can't ever remember who first made the quote but its true, Madonna is the last of the great superstars. When she dies that's it. The golden era is over. No one else is really up there like Madonna is. He legacy is so impacted into popular culture you can see her presence in every female popstar on the market.
I always laugh when people try to claim Madonna is manufactured. She was moulded. There is a different. Madonna was spotted for her talents which meant people put a lot of work into her because she just had *IT*. Madonna was always destined for fame. She was built for it. Two different teams spent years moulding Madonna with kid gloves before she ever released a single because they knew she was going to be the next big thing. It couldn't have been any other female off the street. It really was always about Madonna and only Madonna.
Also the fact she has never done drugs or even had a breakdown despite her HUGE level of fame speaks volumes about how strong minded she is as a person. To survive that Sex era took guts! No one else could have done what Madonna did. It had to be Madonna. It was all about her. Not the team around her. Madonna cut ties pretty much early on with all her original team yet continued to go from strength to strength without them. Gaga ditched her original crew and her career has gone down the pan. So who would you say out of the two knew what they were doing and was more in control?
Secondly, Ray Of Light is such a masterpiece of work that putting Madonna and manufactured into the same sentence fails because a music puppet could never produce an album as great as that. William Orbit even said she was behind most of the album as she had a vision of how it had to sound and wasn't happy until it was right. She actually dropped plans to include long term pal Pat Leonard on the album because she knew him and her wouldn't create what she wanted for that record. So while some of her recent efforts might not be as good as her previous, Madonna is always on top of her game. Where MDNA the album lacked the tour itself made up for it.
I can't ever remember who first made the quote but its true, Madonna is the last of the great superstars. When she dies that's it. The golden era is over. No one else is really up there like Madonna is. He legacy is so impacted into popular culture you can see her presence in every female popstar on the market.
Quite and speaking of her beginnings. Five of the eight songs on that first Madonna album she wrote by herself and is the sole credit. People really should research their facts before posting lies. Nile Rodgers recently spoke about how hands on she was during the production of Like A Virgin too. So its totally pointless for anyone to try and claim Madonna is someone who just turns up and sings the lyrics.
Lady Gaga was NEVER going to be able to replicate the success of The Fame/The Fame Monster. Born This Way and Artpop are each a complete mess in comparison.
Her problem is she simply peaked too soon and then when the music wasn't enough by itself to sustain the sort of success she had during The Fame/The Fame Monster and she resorted to wacky, tiresome attention seeking antics like the meat dress and using paint vomiting artists in her shows, which were just too out there for most people.
I think she became a victim of her own success and grew very arrogant too. It's too bad. I think if she'd stayed grounded and focused on the music rather than her antics and crusading for various causes she could have still be going pretty strong today. Let's not forget her fanbase, who have to be one of the most off putting ever. Is it me or have they been strangely quiet since Artpop flopped?
Madonna isn't a particularly good singer, and IMO she is no longer a particularly good dancer. She looked a bit stiff at the Superbowl. I could be age because she certainly used to be good. However, she is a brilliant entertainer, and is renowned for knowing how to play the fame game (unlike Gaga, who thought she knew how to play it). She also works very hard to make sure she puts on a good show, unlike Gaga who is overweight and lazy and doesn't even bother to learn dance routines. She makes the most bizarre movements on stage and probably thinks she can pass it off as quirky.
Madonna knows she's not that talented - as she herself said, it's what's inside that's special. Gaga, on the other hand, portrays herself as a female hybrid of Beethoven and Jesus, when she is no better than any other pop star. The only difference between Gaga and others is her delusional narcissism and boasting.
The only thing Gaga has that's better than Madonna is her voice is technically somewhat superior (yet it's still unpleasant). Unlike Madonna, Gaga can't dance, isn't disciplined, has no natural stage presence or pizzazz, isn't media savvy, isn't fashionable, isn't creative, and isn't real. It's hilarious that you can't even mention gaga without the conversation turning to Madonna at some point.
Gaga's voice, which is the beginning and end of her talent, is so over-rated. She's just the best of a bad bunch compared to Britney, Katy Perry, Kesha etc. Her voice is horrifically nasal. She sounds like she has a cold and her breath smells. Her "piano skills" are also over-rated. She's only a beginner, and that's being generous.
Madonna got injured during the Superbowl rehearsals which is why she looked a bit 'stiff' still a great performance though IMO, but she didn't make the most of her appearance by premièring such a weak single in 'Give me all your love' and then not really bothering the promote the album.
Well I'm going to see her at the o2 on saturday which I'm really looking forward to. She did a performance with Tony Bennett on STD, which went well and there's been press in several mags and newspapers so don't know where the no press comment comes from?
You like what you like, and you dislike what you dislike - at the end of it all, it's only pop music so let people who like her just get on with it I guess!
I think she's finished unfortunately, which is quite sad, especially as her first album was so great. I don't think she'll be able to come back on form with her next album, as she'll be under so much pressure...and I don't think she copes well under pressure.
She is, as my old aunt would say, All fur coat and no knickers. I thought her voice on SCD was awful, just shouty with no tone. It will be interesting though to see where she goes from here. I would say she could redeem herself if she cut the crap, wrote some really good songs and sat down at a piano and sang them (without shouting).
Well I'm going to see her at the o2 on saturday which I'm really looking forward to. She did a performance with Tony Bennett on STD, which went well and there's been press in several mags and newspapers so don't know where the no press comment comes from?
You like what you like, and you dislike what you dislike - at the end of it all, it's only pop music so let people who like her just get on with it I guess!
On what? 😱😱 lol
I went to artRAVE on Sunday and it is absolutely fantastic! I don't care that it's her least popular, Artpop is my favourite album of hers so to hear almost every song from it performed live as well as her almost complete back catalogue (minus 2 or 3 singles) was fantastic, and she can perform spectacularly! She interacts a lot with the fans as well which having been to dozens of concerts before I know is quite rare apart from the usual "how are you doing Glasgooooow?"
I always laugh when people try to claim Madonna is manufactured. She was moulded. There is a different. Madonna was spotted for her talents which meant people put a lot of work into her because she just had *IT*. Madonna was always destined for fame. She was built for it. Two different teams spent years moulding Madonna with kid gloves before she ever released a single because they knew she was going to be the next big thing. It couldn't have been any other female off the street. It really was always about Madonna and only Madonna.
Also the fact she has never done drugs or even had a breakdown despite her HUGE level of fame speaks volumes about how strong minded she is as a person. To survive that Sex era took guts! No one else could have done what Madonna did. It had to be Madonna. It was all about her. Not the team around her. Madonna cut ties pretty much early on with all her original team yet continued to go from strength to strength without them. Gaga ditched her original crew and her career has gone down the pan. So who would you say out of the two knew what they were doing and was more in control?
Secondly, Ray Of Light is such a masterpiece of work that putting Madonna and manufactured into the same sentence fails because a music puppet could never produce an album as great as that. William Orbit even said she was behind most of the album as she had a vision of how it had to sound and wasn't happy until it was right. She actually dropped plans to include long term pal Pat Leonard on the album because she knew him and her wouldn't create what she wanted for that record. So while some of her recent efforts might not be as good as her previous, Madonna is always on top of her game. Where MDNA the album lacked the tour itself made up for it.
I can't ever remember who first made the quote but its true, Madonna is the last of the great superstars. When she dies that's it. The golden era is over. No one else is really up there like Madonna is. He legacy is so impacted into popular culture you can see her presence in every female popstar on the market.
I can't stand Madonna but I do agree with pretty much everything you've said. She also has (had?) a drive that was pretty incomparable. Although as far as your last sentence is concerned, I hate the fact that practically every female pop star has gone down the 'I'm so hot I'm going to pretty much simulate sex in every tedious dance routine' route, thanks to Madonna.
I went to artRAVE on Sunday and it is absolutely fantastic! I don't care that it's her least popular, Artpop is my favourite album of hers so to hear almost every song from it performed live as well as her almost complete back catalogue (minus 2 or 3 singles) was fantastic, and she can perform spectacularly! She interacts a lot with the fans as well which having been to dozens of concerts before I know is quite rare apart from the usual "how are you doing Glasgooooow?"
Oops my bad! Note to self: proofread next time!
I enjoyed SCD showing and I don't think she shouted at all, it's a high piece and you can't sing it in head voice. Nice to see her do something more chilled out than her usual showings.
I saw the BTWB and really enjoyed it, I love how she always sings the whole new album so fans can get a taste of each song!
Maybe she'll never be the force that she once was but I for one will always look forward to new material from her, and I think she's fantastic live. She needs to just learn from her mistakes.
Well I'm going to see her at the o2 on saturday which I'm really looking forward to. She did a performance with Tony Bennett on STD, which went well and there's been press in several mags and newspapers so don't know where the no press comment comes from?
You like what you like, and you dislike what you dislike - at the end of it all, it's only pop music so let people who like her just get on with it I guess!
People can't just get on with it.
Its an obsession for some people just bang on and on and on and on and on about how gaga isn't as big as she used to be etc etc etc etc heard it all a thousand times.
Its become so utterly mind numbing I'm wondering what people will say when her next album comes out?
Enjoy the music or don't enjoy the music. There is no denying her talent and she can have a habit of overhyping things, but who cares? People want her to be the Bad Romance hit maker she was of that era. But perhaps she does not want to go back to that?
Comments
I think people underestimate Madonna's ability. She might not have the strongest voice but she can sing. Her dancing skills speak for themselves. She is also a gifted song writer and every producer she works with are always vocal about how hands on she is in the production of her music. She is not only savvy enough to know what works and what doesn't but she is also brave enough to take risks that would kill the career of anyone else. That is without factoring in her many iconic looks. Each one relevant to the era they happened in without going too OTT to the point of desperation. Sex is just Madonna. Its who she has always been and always will be. Even at 90 I bet she is still flashing her tits just to annoy people who think its not acceptable. That's why she is Madonna.
Gaga tried to be a Madonna clone but while Gaga is a stronger vocalist she lacks Madonna's creative talents but most of all, Gaga doesn't have Madonna's beauty.
I think Gaga's lowest moment during the whole copycat thing was the BTW performance at the Grammy's. It was bad enough BTW sounded like Express Yourself without Gaga coming out on stage with Madonna's iconic pony tail to boot. The whole thing looked like a tribute performance. That is when the beginning of the end began.
Whatever.
Gaga just decides to be quirky rather than accentuate the best of her features, which doesn't make a lot of sense.
Good post! Underrated songwriter and producer. All her producers have stated that.
Gaga ONE song alone had 10 songwriters! To me she just a manufactured creation. When her people that were part of her at the beginning left her, she has become crap and that says it all! She doesn't have the talent!
Who cares?
Just like what you like.
MDNA was chock full of songwriters. There are two songs that had seven and eight writers work on them. Three is the minimum amount of songwriters who worked on the album. Madonna hasn't had a single solo writer credit on any of her albums since Like a Virgin in the mid-1980s. Think about it, that’s nearly 30 years since Madonna actually wrote a song on one of her albums by herself. She's given far too much credit by her fans.
The truth is she's only ever been as good as the highly talented people she surrounds herself with. She's incredibly limited in terms of actual musical talent. It's no surprise that her weakest album is her debut, an album which includes five tracks written solely by her. She's never had that many solo writer credits since, and with good reason. In other words, she wouldn't have the back catalogue she does if she hadn't been teamed up with highly successful and talented songwriters and producers back in the early 1980s at the insistence of her record label. Madonna is no different to any other pop star out there. She's just as manufactured as Lady Gaga, Britney Spears and Katy Perry.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with singers and bands working alongside writers and producers because in reality most do, but I do have a problem with the Madonna fans who give her all the credit and claim she's a musical genius when she isn't because she relies so heavily on the talent of other people. George Martin produced most of The Beatles music, but the band wrote 99.9% of the songs by themselves whereas 99.9% of Madonna's discography wouldn't exist without the many other writers and producers involved. That's a fact. It's not as though she sat down and wrote Like a Prayer or Frozen by herself in the way that Paul McCartney sat down and wrote Yesterday and Let It Be. It's true that some of the most legendary entertainers never wrote any of their own material or only a very small amount (Barbra Streisand, Tina Turner, Whitney Houston) but they all have/had vocal talent to counteract that whereas Madonna can't even sing that well.
Madonna has made a big career out of relatively little musical and vocal talent. A lot of fans refer to her as the most talented just because she's the biggest selling when in reality it doesn't work like that. The other thing I find peculiar is the Madonna fans who waste no time pointing fingers at other singers for things that Madonna can also be criticised for, i.e. the OP remarking that a Lady Gaga song had ten songwriter credits even though several Madonna songs had nearly that many. Stones in glass houses!
As always she will forever be known as the Madonna wannabe. Actually might be forever forgotten, just look at her low tour sales.
Where Gaga has royally f****d up is in her marketing and publicity.
Its been a cocophony of **** ups publicity wise for Gaga.
Firstly the wacky dress-ups & persona. I can see how she wouldve thought she was onto a winner here, after all- it worked for Bowie (and to a lesser extend Madonna).
The difference is that with Madonna (& Bowie) they always let the audience know it was just a game of dressing up. Madonna always let her personality show, despite the many image changes. Stephanie hides behind a persona. So did Bowie, but he changed the persona several times in the 70's. Stephanie has only one- Lady gaga.
Secondly the changing imagery was too frequent.
If you look at how Madonna's style she would present a new image each era, but it was an established image for each album: the hip boy toy of like a Virgin, the sexy vamp for like a prayer era, the earth mother for Ray of Light, the gym bunnie for Confessions etc.
Gaga however is ALL OVER THE PLACE image wise, throwing everything out of the wardrobe, bombarding the public with a stream of unconnected imagery. Eventually its gotten tiresome.
Theres other issues other than imagery: Songs not appearing when they should (or appearing as promo singles, not the real thing), vids not appearing when they should, (DWYW), and her major issue- wildly over-hyping herself & her music.
Wildly exaggerating the quality of her music has given her an Emperors New Clothes type perception by the public. Albums are being hyped as "game changers" and when they appear they're just pretty reasonable bog standard pop records.
It seems the praise went to her head & she has started incorporating things like performance art into her album campaigns (What part of her thought young fans would embrace performance art en masse?? Its always been a niche market & always will be).
She also has a problem in that she cannot deal with criticism or blips very well. She takes herself very seriously & gets openly upset by criticism, but it is part & parcel of the industry she's in. I suggest at her level its just best to carry on with a "business as usual" attitude during blips in her career.
She did not handle the BtW/express Yourself controversy very well, she could have laughed it off, or made some dry remark of the "imitation is the highest form of flattery" type. Compared to someone like Beyonce, who has let the downturns in her career ride over her, she seems to be very hyper sensitive. Being clearly bitter about Katy Perry outselling her makes her sound jealous, and this is not a good impression to give the public. its so much better just to "paint that smile on" and carry on with gritted teeth as Im sure many others have to when theyre a beaten in record sales.
IN interviews she seems to take herself very seriously & seems cold & a bit remote. She seems quite unrelatable in my opinion. THis doesnt help with enabling people to make an emotional connection with her,
All the pantomime dame comedy costumes that come with Gaga don't help, it's unsustainable, plus we the public just get bored of someone wearing a giant potato on their head . . It looks great, right . . ?
And if the music is sh*t, well it's thank-you & goodnite. .
Goodbye . .
FOREVER !
Madonna knows she's not that talented - as she herself said, it's what's inside that's special. Gaga, on the other hand, portrays herself as a female hybrid of Beethoven and Jesus, when she is no better than any other pop star. The only difference between Gaga and others is her delusional narcissism and boasting.
The only thing Gaga has that's better than Madonna is her voice is technically somewhat superior (yet it's still unpleasant). Unlike Madonna, Gaga can't dance, isn't disciplined, has no natural stage presence or pizzazz, isn't media savvy, isn't fashionable, isn't creative, and isn't real. It's hilarious that you can't even mention gaga without the conversation turning to Madonna at some point.
Gaga's voice, which is the beginning and end of her talent, is so over-rated. She's just the best of a bad bunch compared to Britney, Katy Perry, Kesha etc. Her voice is horrifically nasal. She sounds like she has a cold and her breath smells. Her "piano skills" are also over-rated. She's only a beginner, and that's being generous.
Like I said, there’s nothing wrong with this. Singers using outside writers and producers far outweigh the singers who write, compose and produce their music by themselves. All I’m saying is Madonna is given far too much credit because in reality she’s a manufactured pop star who needs the talent of other people just as much as Katy Perry, Rihanna, Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus do. I will give Madonna credit for being an incredibly shrewd and no-nonsense businesswoman. She knows how to sell herself and what little talent she actually has. But the reality is she’s a very limited songwriter, an average singer, an average dancer, she’s never been particularly beautiful, and she’s sourced a lot of her ideas from other singers and art forms. She’s in no way underrated. She’s vastly overrated. She might be an incredibly successful pop star, but she's not the be-all and end-all when it comes to music.
Madonna never takes herself too seriously and openly said she isn't the best singer and dancer. You have to admire her for that.
Yes she is influenced by a lot of existing sources, but Madonna never ever claims sole credit. Not like Beyonce. But Madonna embraced these existing sources to a new generation and it never felt like she was mimicking, but giving a much respectable tribute to whatever she was influenced by. Marilyn Monroe being a huge example. But once Madonna became older, she would put these old hollywood inspirations to the side and embrace a new whole load of other inspirations. Spirtuality in Ray of light, westerns in Music, politics in American dad and bringing back Disco to a modern era in Confessions.
I don't think people hail Madonna as a musical genius. It's what she has done with what she claims she hasn't really got is what has allowed her to be the legend she is today. She wasn't giving us disposable crappy 80's pop. She was hitting into issues no one else was. Aids being one, as well as embracing the LGBT lifestyle that was something people felt should of been closed doors, where as she was bringing it into mainstream pop music through performances and music videos being played 100 times a day.
Madonna never tried make pop complicated or something revoloutionary. She did whatever frame of mind she was in at that time.
The fact Madonna never tried too hard is another reason why she has remained. If you try too hard, it stinks of desperation. Which is what Gaga does.
Also the fact she has never done drugs or even had a breakdown despite her HUGE level of fame speaks volumes about how strong minded she is as a person. To survive that Sex era took guts! No one else could have done what Madonna did. It had to be Madonna. It was all about her. Not the team around her. Madonna cut ties pretty much early on with all her original team yet continued to go from strength to strength without them. Gaga ditched her original crew and her career has gone down the pan. So who would you say out of the two knew what they were doing and was more in control?
Secondly, Ray Of Light is such a masterpiece of work that putting Madonna and manufactured into the same sentence fails because a music puppet could never produce an album as great as that. William Orbit even said she was behind most of the album as she had a vision of how it had to sound and wasn't happy until it was right. She actually dropped plans to include long term pal Pat Leonard on the album because she knew him and her wouldn't create what she wanted for that record. So while some of her recent efforts might not be as good as her previous, Madonna is always on top of her game. Where MDNA the album lacked the tour itself made up for it.
I can't ever remember who first made the quote but its true, Madonna is the last of the great superstars. When she dies that's it. The golden era is over. No one else is really up there like Madonna is. He legacy is so impacted into popular culture you can see her presence in every female popstar on the market.
Her problem is she simply peaked too soon and then when the music wasn't enough by itself to sustain the sort of success she had during The Fame/The Fame Monster and she resorted to wacky, tiresome attention seeking antics like the meat dress and using paint vomiting artists in her shows, which were just too out there for most people.
I think she became a victim of her own success and grew very arrogant too. It's too bad. I think if she'd stayed grounded and focused on the music rather than her antics and crusading for various causes she could have still be going pretty strong today. Let's not forget her fanbase, who have to be one of the most off putting ever. Is it me or have they been strangely quiet since Artpop flopped?
Madonna got injured during the Superbowl rehearsals which is why she looked a bit 'stiff' still a great performance though IMO, but she didn't make the most of her appearance by premièring such a weak single in 'Give me all your love' and then not really bothering the promote the album.
You like what you like, and you dislike what you dislike - at the end of it all, it's only pop music so let people who like her just get on with it I guess!
On what? 😱😱 lol
I went to artRAVE on Sunday and it is absolutely fantastic! I don't care that it's her least popular, Artpop is my favourite album of hers so to hear almost every song from it performed live as well as her almost complete back catalogue (minus 2 or 3 singles) was fantastic, and she can perform spectacularly! She interacts a lot with the fans as well which having been to dozens of concerts before I know is quite rare apart from the usual "how are you doing Glasgooooow?"
I can't stand Madonna but I do agree with pretty much everything you've said. She also has (had?) a drive that was pretty incomparable. Although as far as your last sentence is concerned, I hate the fact that practically every female pop star has gone down the 'I'm so hot I'm going to pretty much simulate sex in every tedious dance routine' route, thanks to Madonna.
Oops my bad! Note to self: proofread next time!
I enjoyed SCD showing and I don't think she shouted at all, it's a high piece and you can't sing it in head voice. Nice to see her do something more chilled out than her usual showings.
I saw the BTWB and really enjoyed it, I love how she always sings the whole new album so fans can get a taste of each song!
Maybe she'll never be the force that she once was but I for one will always look forward to new material from her, and I think she's fantastic live. She needs to just learn from her mistakes.
People can't just get on with it.
Its an obsession for some people just bang on and on and on and on and on about how gaga isn't as big as she used to be etc etc etc etc heard it all a thousand times.
Its become so utterly mind numbing I'm wondering what people will say when her next album comes out?
Enjoy the music or don't enjoy the music. There is no denying her talent and she can have a habit of overhyping things, but who cares? People want her to be the Bad Romance hit maker she was of that era. But perhaps she does not want to go back to that?
Gaga, or lady gaga as most call her looks like Blossoms mum, if thats what you call quirky.