tennent's regen scenes were totally emotional and beautiful, and i think leads DIRECTLY to the christmas special ..... not only not wanting to BE regenerated, but when he did completely knackered the TARDIS and knocked it off into a slightly PARALLEL timeline ..... leading both ten end eleven to take part in it!
You're missing the point though. It was characteristic of Ten's character arc because it was uncharacteristic of the Doctor.
Not to mention the circumstances are fairly different: what other Doctor has lived for only about six years and spent half that time coming to terms with himself, what he's done, the losses of his recent companions, and a vague prophecy that tells him he could drop dead at any second anywhere he goes?
Is it said anywhere specifically how long the Tenth Doctor's "life" was? Because if not, there are plenty of gaps in the Tenth Doctor's time where he had no companion and could have been travelling for many years, if not centuries.
And the Second Doctor was accompanied by human companions throughout his tenure, so his "life" really was definitely only about three years.
Is it said anywhere specifically how long the Tenth Doctor's "life" was? Because if not, there are plenty of gaps in the Tenth Doctor's time where he had no companion and could have been travelling for many years, if not centuries.
Nine said he was 900 during Series 1, Ten said he was 906 a couple episodes before his regeneration, and Eleven said he was 907 in Series 5.
And the Second Doctor was accompanied by human companions throughout his tenure, so his "life" really was definitely only about three years.
Well, he did have that time spent working with the Celestial Intervention Agency before he actually regenerated and went into exile (which certainly happened according to the BBC's episode listings, otherwise the Second Doctor wouldn't make any sort of sense in the multi-Doctor stories). We don't know how long he had to do that, but I like to assume it was about 100 years to explain why his hair was greying in "The Two Doctors".
In my own interpretation of the scenario, the Time Lords didn't make the decision to have him regenerate and go into exile until after he had spent that time working for the CIA, so he didn't have to spend any time trying to come to terms with it like Ten had. The decision was unexpected for him, as he thought he'd be let free after doing all that work for the CIA, so his reaction at the end of "The War Games" doesn't lose any of its significance to the "Season 6B theory".
I know he was going through 'a crisis' but he still sounded whiney and pathetic. It just came across as 'why do I have to die, the others weren't important but I am'
I loved the ranting, loved the realisation that on thinking he'd cheated death he was destined to have to sacrifice himself 'just for a human who got stuck' . But the ranting before he nobley did the right thing helped to demonstrate that it wasn't just an 'ok - i'll save him cos it's no skin off my nose - i can just regenerate' moment.
There would be nothing brave in saving someone if you yourself can not come to any harm.
He did the right thing, and for me his ranting was superbly acted raw emotion. He loved wilf, adored the man and respected him. So the line about him not being remotely important really cut into me when he said it. But then he calmed, accepted and wiped all that out by saying it was his honour.. Then the pain he endured to soak up the radiation.. it was all superbly acted stuff..
I also loved the 'i don't want to go' moment. Alone in his tardis, knowing what was happening, the music superb, utterly superb. And then an explosive transformation into the bundle of fun that was matt smith. Matt is easily for me the best doctor in the history of the show, but the funereal lead up to his dynamic start helped make it even more of a contrast.
So. Hmm, i liked it. I hated the trawl back visiting people (yawn) but the emotional stuff? yeah - fantastic!
I suppose 10's fear and reluctance is particularly justified if he fears that the regeneration won't just cause him to become another person but rather it will cause him to literally be replaced by another person, so the current doctor sinks into his mind, and another incarnation comes to the fore and takes hold.
It sort of goes against what we've seen on screen, but I kinda like it, it ups the steaks, and would make for much more dramatic regeneration stories.
Also, it allows for a new and interesting take on the multi doctor story......could previous doctors litrally be brought back, rather than just using timey wimey to visit them from before they changed?
Since Ten did experience a bit of character development (going from being the Doctor to being some selfish crazy man, who I'll call "dark Ten" for the purpose of this post), maybe one of the reasons he was so reluctant to die was because he knew regenerating would "reset" his personality to make him "the Doctor" again, but thought of his own development in terms of: "This is me now, I've been through so much, I don't want to go back to how I was before." It would be like if I were faced with the possibility of becoming a child again. I would be completely against it because that child wouldn't be me; all the experiences I've had throughout my adolescence made me who I am today, and I am a different person from what I was back then. Even if I was a better person when I was a child in the eyes of everyone else, that's not how I would see it; I would rather die than be replaced by this child who isn't me, because it would be just like dying anyway, as my personality as I know it would be no more.
So I think that's the problem Ten was facing. He was obviously fighting with "the Doctor" part of him who was willing to regenerate because the regeneration would simply be a renewal of that personality; but the "dark Ten" personality that was taking him over was a different one that felt threatened at the thought of the regeneration forcing the older personality to take over (and the fact that this personality was a selfish one didn't help). Ultimately, "dark Ten" decided that it would be better to die (though he would definitely have preferred to go on living, in the same body no less), whereas a small part of him (the Doctor) was telling him that there was still a glimmer of hope in regenerating and killing off what "dark Ten" had become. This would also explain why Ten was so uncertain about whether he was going to regenerate or die for good in "The End of Time", as the decision was up to the inner battle between his two selves (and then Ood Sigma convinced him to go on and regenerate, because the subtext of what he was saying was likely along the lines of: "This isn't about you, this is about the universe"). So for the special case of Ten, the regeneration really was going to make him a different person, as he was going from "dark Ten" to "the Doctor" while every other Doctor in the series went from "the Doctor" to "the Doctor" (different "personalities" of course, but the same "Doctor personality" at the core of it all).
Then there's all the other stuff I mentioned with regards to Ten's departure story, but it seems that the more I think about it, the more his behaviour overall is justified.
Since Ten did experience a bit of character development (going from being the Doctor to being some selfish crazy man, who I'll call "dark Ten" for the purpose of this post), maybe one of the reasons he was so reluctant to die was because he knew regenerating would "reset" his personality to make him "the Doctor" again, but thought of his own development in terms of: "This is me now, I've been through so much, I don't want to go back to how I was before." It would be like if I were faced with the possibility of becoming a child again. I would be completely against it because that child wouldn't be me; all the experiences I've had throughout my adolescence made me who I am today, and I am a different person from what I was back then. Even if I was a better person when I was a child in the eyes of everyone else, that's not how I would see it; I would rather die than be replaced by this child who isn't me, because it would be just like dying anyway, as my personality as I know it would be no more.
So I think that's the problem Ten was facing. He was obviously fighting with "the Doctor" part of him who was willing to regenerate because the regeneration would simply be a renewal of that personality; but the "dark Ten" personality that was taking him over was a different one that felt threatened at the thought of the regeneration forcing the older personality to take over (and the fact that this personality was a selfish one didn't help). Ultimately, "dark Ten" decided that it would be better to die (though he would definitely have preferred to go on living, in the same body no less), whereas a small part of him (the Doctor) was telling him that there was still a glimmer of hope in regenerating and killing off what "dark Ten" had become. This would also explain why Ten was so uncertain about whether he was going to regenerate or die for good in "The End of Time", as the decision was up to the inner battle between his two selves (and then Ood Sigma convinced him to go on and regenerate, because the subtext of what he was saying was likely along the lines of: "This isn't about you, this is about the universe"). So for the special case of Ten, the regeneration really was going to make him a different person, as he was going from "dark Ten" to "the Doctor" while every other Doctor in the series went from "the Doctor" to "the Doctor" (different "personalities" of course, but the same "Doctor personality" at the core of it all).
Then there's all the other stuff I mentioned with regards to Ten's departure story, but it seems that the more I think about it, the more his behaviour overall is justified.
Your 'Dark Ten' theory is interesting, and I think it actually explains some of Eleven's dark moments as 'Dark Ten' having survived the regeneration and become 'Dark Eleven'.
The Doctor's "dark side" has always been there, but it seems that it's been popping up more frequently and more strongly since the Time War. "Dark Ten" was the climax of this, but it is of course still there in Eleven, as you say. It's a part of him that will never go away, so he has to constantly battle to keep his "Doctor side" at the forefront.
Nine said he was 900 during Series 1, Ten said he was 906 a couple episodes before his regeneration, and Eleven said he was 907 in Series 5.
Thing is, some of the ages given by the Doctor over his many incarnations actually contradict each other. Sometimes he's been known to give an age which is younger than he's given in the past. I think the Doctor either lies about his age or spends so much time time-travelling he's become confused. I don't rely on the ages the Doctor gives.
Well, he did have that time spent working with the Celestial Intervention Agency before he actually regenerated and went into exile (which certainly happened according to the BBC's episode listings, otherwise the Second Doctor wouldn't make any sort of sense in the multi-Doctor stories). We don't know how long he had to do that, but I like to assume it was about 100 years to explain why his hair was greying in "The Two Doctors".
In my own interpretation of the scenario, the Time Lords didn't make the decision to have him regenerate and go into exile until after he had spent that time working for the CIA, so he didn't have to spend any time trying to come to terms with it like Ten had. The decision was unexpected for him, as he thought he'd be let free after doing all that work for the CIA, so his reaction at the end of "The War Games" doesn't lose any of its significance to the "Season 6B theory".
Thing is, some of the ages given by the Doctor over his many incarnations actually contradict each other. Sometimes he's been known to give an age which is younger than he's given in the past. I think the Doctor either lies about his age or spends so much time time-travelling he's become confused. I don't rely on the ages the Doctor gives.
His age was consistent throughout the classic series as we were told his age from external sources (e.g. Romana said he was 760, the Rani used "953" as a password and the Doctor was able to guess it because he knew they had the same age, etc.). It's just the new series that suddenly makes his age lower than what we were told the last time, but I'm assuming it's because the Time War may have caused some confusion so the Doctor just started over at 900. I'm pretty sure he's fairly accurate at keeping the time, so when he implies he's been travelling alone for 3 years it's not like was travelling for 15 and it "felt like 3".
I was actually going to post a thread discussing the Doctor's age later.
His age was consistent throughout the classic series as we were told his age from external sources (e.g. Romana said he was 760, the Rani used "953" as a password and the Doctor was able to guess it because he knew they had the same age, etc.). It's just the new series that suddenly makes his age lower than what we were told the last time, but I'm assuming it's because the Time War may have caused some confusion so the Doctor just started over at 900. I'm pretty sure he's fairly accurate at keeping the time, so when he implies he's been travelling alone for 3 years it's not like was travelling for 15 and it "felt like 3".
I was actually going to post a thread discussing the Doctor's age later.
I saw a Dr Who guide in a shop last week. I had a leaf through it, though I didn't buy it, and it did indicate that during the classic era the Doctor's age suddenly reduced.
I saw a Dr Who guide in a shop last week. I had a leaf through it, though I didn't buy it, and it did indicate that during the classic era the Doctor's age suddenly reduced.
The only discrepancy I know of is when the Third Doctor suggested he was thousands of years old, but ignoring that, everything has been consistent. I'll try to get my thread up tomorrow.
The only discrepancy I know of is when the Third Doctor suggested he was thousands of years old, but ignoring that, everything has been consistent. I'll try to get my thread up tomorrow.
It's possible that the Third Doctor was referring to the distance he had travelled rather than his age.
Comments
They showed on confidential he chose the one in the middle.
You're right.
Is it said anywhere specifically how long the Tenth Doctor's "life" was? Because if not, there are plenty of gaps in the Tenth Doctor's time where he had no companion and could have been travelling for many years, if not centuries.
And the Second Doctor was accompanied by human companions throughout his tenure, so his "life" really was definitely only about three years.
Well, he did have that time spent working with the Celestial Intervention Agency before he actually regenerated and went into exile (which certainly happened according to the BBC's episode listings, otherwise the Second Doctor wouldn't make any sort of sense in the multi-Doctor stories). We don't know how long he had to do that, but I like to assume it was about 100 years to explain why his hair was greying in "The Two Doctors".
In my own interpretation of the scenario, the Time Lords didn't make the decision to have him regenerate and go into exile until after he had spent that time working for the CIA, so he didn't have to spend any time trying to come to terms with it like Ten had. The decision was unexpected for him, as he thought he'd be let free after doing all that work for the CIA, so his reaction at the end of "The War Games" doesn't lose any of its significance to the "Season 6B theory".
There would be nothing brave in saving someone if you yourself can not come to any harm.
He did the right thing, and for me his ranting was superbly acted raw emotion. He loved wilf, adored the man and respected him. So the line about him not being remotely important really cut into me when he said it. But then he calmed, accepted and wiped all that out by saying it was his honour.. Then the pain he endured to soak up the radiation.. it was all superbly acted stuff..
I also loved the 'i don't want to go' moment. Alone in his tardis, knowing what was happening, the music superb, utterly superb. And then an explosive transformation into the bundle of fun that was matt smith. Matt is easily for me the best doctor in the history of the show, but the funereal lead up to his dynamic start helped make it even more of a contrast.
So. Hmm, i liked it. I hated the trawl back visiting people (yawn) but the emotional stuff? yeah - fantastic!
It sort of goes against what we've seen on screen, but I kinda like it, it ups the steaks, and would make for much more dramatic regeneration stories.
Also, it allows for a new and interesting take on the multi doctor story......could previous doctors litrally be brought back, rather than just using timey wimey to visit them from before they changed?
So I think that's the problem Ten was facing. He was obviously fighting with "the Doctor" part of him who was willing to regenerate because the regeneration would simply be a renewal of that personality; but the "dark Ten" personality that was taking him over was a different one that felt threatened at the thought of the regeneration forcing the older personality to take over (and the fact that this personality was a selfish one didn't help). Ultimately, "dark Ten" decided that it would be better to die (though he would definitely have preferred to go on living, in the same body no less), whereas a small part of him (the Doctor) was telling him that there was still a glimmer of hope in regenerating and killing off what "dark Ten" had become. This would also explain why Ten was so uncertain about whether he was going to regenerate or die for good in "The End of Time", as the decision was up to the inner battle between his two selves (and then Ood Sigma convinced him to go on and regenerate, because the subtext of what he was saying was likely along the lines of: "This isn't about you, this is about the universe"). So for the special case of Ten, the regeneration really was going to make him a different person, as he was going from "dark Ten" to "the Doctor" while every other Doctor in the series went from "the Doctor" to "the Doctor" (different "personalities" of course, but the same "Doctor personality" at the core of it all).
Then there's all the other stuff I mentioned with regards to Ten's departure story, but it seems that the more I think about it, the more his behaviour overall is justified.
Thing is, some of the ages given by the Doctor over his many incarnations actually contradict each other. Sometimes he's been known to give an age which is younger than he's given in the past. I think the Doctor either lies about his age or spends so much time time-travelling he's become confused. I don't rely on the ages the Doctor gives.
Hmm, yes, arguably.
His age was consistent throughout the classic series as we were told his age from external sources (e.g. Romana said he was 760, the Rani used "953" as a password and the Doctor was able to guess it because he knew they had the same age, etc.). It's just the new series that suddenly makes his age lower than what we were told the last time, but I'm assuming it's because the Time War may have caused some confusion so the Doctor just started over at 900. I'm pretty sure he's fairly accurate at keeping the time, so when he implies he's been travelling alone for 3 years it's not like was travelling for 15 and it "felt like 3".
I was actually going to post a thread discussing the Doctor's age later.
I saw a Dr Who guide in a shop last week. I had a leaf through it, though I didn't buy it, and it did indicate that during the classic era the Doctor's age suddenly reduced.
The only discrepancy I know of is when the Third Doctor suggested he was thousands of years old, but ignoring that, everything has been consistent. I'll try to get my thread up tomorrow.
It's possible that the Third Doctor was referring to the distance he had travelled rather than his age.
"Distance" in terms of the amount of time he's travelled across? Well thank you, that's one more thing explained.
Indeed. Of course these days that would equate to trillions of years.