Sir Alan Duncan criticises Israeli settlements and gets called 'anti-Semitic'

Noel Canard · 19/10/14 - 12:28

What on earth?!

Jewish groups have reacted angrily to comments made by Sir Alan Duncan, the former Tory minister, who described settlement building in the Occupied West Bank as an “ever-deepening stain on the face of the globe”.

The Board of Deputies of British Jews said that part of Sir Alan’s argument – that US thinking on the issue of settlements as being dominated by “a very powerful financial lobby” – was anti-semitic.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/sir-alan-duncans-apartheid-attack-on-israel-angers-jewish-groups-9797002.html

I mean, seriously?

TomWhitton · 19/10/14 - 12:41

It's just what pro-Israelis do. They enjoy the sensation of keeping their heads in the sand.

Dotheboyshall · 19/10/14 - 12:58

Monkey Trap - Israel wants to make the West Bank part of Israel but doesn't want to give the locals any rights

Sid Law · 19/10/14 - 17:38

Any criticism of Israel is branded as anti-semitic by those who support the policies of the Israeli state.

It is a convenient and very effective way of closing down any discussion on the rights and wrongs of what is happening in that part of the world.

northantsgirl · 19/10/14 - 20:09

Sorry pro-Israeli lobby hardly anyone in the UK takes you seriously anymore- they know you are justifying the unjustifiable. And when you bleat on about anti Semitism against those who criticise you, people just think you're pathetic.

jenzie · 19/10/14 - 20:14

usual crap from them and their "we're so special" schtick
as i've said

GET RID OF GAZA AND MAKE THE WEST BANK PALESTINE
END OF PROBLEM

but these dumbasses on both sides don't give a crap
so good luck to them

warlord · 19/10/14 - 20:19

I regard islam as a cancerous growth that is staining the face of the globe. For some reason, my views are regarded as extreme.

northantsgirl · 19/10/14 - 20:28

warlord wrote: »

I regard islam as a cancerous growth that is staining the face of the globe. For some reason, my views are regarded as extreme.

What's that to do with this thread? Especially matey boy as this thread is about a government rather than a religion.

Beanybun · 19/10/14 - 20:50

I prefer Mike Freer's approach, who resigned as a parliamentary private secretary to vote against the recent vote on Palestine's so called "statehood", based on the moral principle that Hamas should not be rewarded for its continued terrorism.

Duncan, on the other hand, has been spouting this anti Israeli bullshit and pursuing his personal agenda for years. The fact this guy holds close relations in Oman and the Yemen tells you all you need to know.

BanglaRoad · 19/10/14 - 20:54

northantsgirl wrote: »

What's that to do with this thread? Especially matey boy as this thread is about a government rather than a religion.

I have been on this forum for just a few weeks and I have discovered that just about any subject no matter what will have one of these moronic posts about Islam If they have nothing to say then they spout some crass comment and are hardly ever pulled up on it

dosanjh1 · 19/10/14 - 21:10

deleted

dosanjh1 · 19/10/14 - 21:13

I'm pleased Duncan has come out in support for Palestine regarding settlements as I am against them too, however it's not new that the allegations of an omnipresent "Jewish Lobby" particularity from the financial sector has an overriding "golden vote|" on international decision making.

It is anti-semetic and has been been for centuries and Duncan has shown the tin foil helmet side to his nature.

I Like this from wiki on the Jewish Lobby:

The B'nai B'rith Anti-Defamation Commission of Australia states that "the stereotype of the 'Jewish lobby' is that the Jewish engagement in politics and policy debate is above and beyond the ordinary participation of a group in public policy-making. It paints Jewish involvement as surreptitious, and as subverting the democratic process. It alleges that a 'Jewish lobby', through bribery, bullying and manipulation, pressures politicians to act against their will and duties.”[14] Michael Visontay, editor of Australia's The Sydney Morning Herald, wrote in 2003 that "The way the phrase 'Jewish lobby' has been bandied about in numerous letters implies there is something inherently sinister in lobbying when Jews do it."

And that kind of sums up what Duncan is alluding to and it's BS

paul2307 · 19/10/14 - 21:40

Its interesting that despite given the opportunity to respond to the allegation he declined , makes you wonder why

Styker · 19/10/14 - 21:40

Whenever people criticise Israel in general, there is always some people who cry anti semitism, leaving out the fact that Arabs are semites too.

I think those crying anti semtism do it to try and scare people off and it works in a lot of cases but shouldn't!

Beanybun · 19/10/14 - 22:25

Styker wrote: »

Whenever people criticise Israel in general, there is always some people who cry anti semitism, leaving out the fact that Arabs are semites too.

I think those crying anti semtism do it to try and scare people off and it works in a lot of cases but shouldn't!

That's total bs.

Example; Andrew Bridgen MP who has this to say this week.

""Does my hon. Friend agree that, given that the political system of the world’s superpower and our great ally the United States is very susceptible to well-funded powerful lobbying groups and the power of the Jewish lobby in America, it falls to this country and to this House to be the good but critical friend that Israel needs, and this motion tonight just might lift that logjam on this very troubled area?"

The European monitoring centre has been clear that this equating of Jews with the State of Israel is a common form of and is indeed anti Semitic.

And how about this, which apparently passes for political humour in Oman?

http://archive.adl.org/anti_semitism/arab/cartoon_al_watan_031402.html

FMKK · 19/10/14 - 23:00

warlord wrote: »

I regard islam as a cancerous growth that is staining the face of the globe. For some reason, my views are regarded as extreme.

Do you ever post about anything else? I mean, it's of zero relevance here but you still go on about it. Maybe you should see someone to help get over this obsession.

thenetworkbabe · 20/10/14 - 00:18

Beanybun wrote: »

That's total bs.

Example; Andrew Bridgen MP who has this to say this week.

""Does my hon. Friend agree that, given that the political system of the world’s superpower and our great ally the United States is very susceptible to well-funded powerful lobbying groups and the power of the Jewish lobby in America, it falls to this country and to this House to be the good but critical friend that Israel needs, and this motion tonight just might lift that logjam on this very troubled area?"

The European monitoring centre has been clear that this equating of Jews with the State of Israel is a common form of and is indeed anti Semitic.

And how about this, which apparently passes for political humour in Oman?

http://archive.adl.org/anti_semitism/arab/cartoon_al_watan_031402.html

Indeed the problem with this situation is that the devil is in the detail. And the detail is very detailed and problematic. Bugden just fails to understand this.

He's basically got a very simple anti-semitic view of US Palestinian, or Israeli, politics, and a naive belief that the impasse in the Middle east is between peace loving Palestinians who really want a settlement , and Israeli governments that refuse one. The real problem is that the Palestinian leaders prefer the status quo to a settlement, there's no PA leadership that can make one and live , and no Israeli leadership can get a majority for risking another Gaza missile base developing on the West Bank. The peace agreement has been written for years, but the PA can't sign up to , or enforce it , and no Israeli leader, whatever their view on settlements, is going to sign up to it when it means a chronically insecure future.

There's also zero case that the Israeli- Palestinian dispute is a significant factor in world politics and its problems . The Arab states supported Israel against Hamas this year. Jordan and Egypt have the same requirements from a Palestinian state as Israel does. The current outbreak of Islamic fundamentalism globally has everything to do with inter moslem disputes, and dislike of western modernity, and nothing to do with houses being built on the West Bank. Thats irrelevant to people planning atrocities in Nigeria, or tribal wars in Afghanistan or Libya , or fighting the Sunni-Shia war in Syria, or Iraq , or Pakistanis planning to kill as many Indians as possible, or Iranians and Saudis pointing missiles at each other.

Silly gestures by the naive, opportunistic, and antijewish minorities in the UK parliament , are just irrelevant to the situation.

Hypnodisc · 20/10/14 - 00:22

dosanjh1 wrote: »

I'm pleased Duncan has come out in support for Palestine regarding settlements as I am against them too, however it's not new that the allegations of an omnipresent "Jewish Lobby" particularity from the financial sector has an overriding "golden vote|" on international decision making.

It is anti-semetic and has been been for centuries and Duncan has shown the tin foil helmet side to his nature.

I Like this from wiki on the Jewish Lobby:

And that kind of sums up what Duncan is alluding to and it's BS

For starters, it should probably be referred to more accurately as the 'pro-Israeli lobby', rather than the 'Jewish lobby'.

He's not far wrong though in the sense that a disproportionate number of pro-Israeli individuals are in the upper echelons of business and finance. A lot of them aren't even Jewish, it has very little to do with Judaism.

It has everything to do with money and politics.

Styker · 20/10/14 - 00:53

Beanybun wrote: »

That's total bs.

Example; Andrew Bridgen MP who has this to say this week.

""Does my hon. Friend agree that, given that the political system of the world’s superpower and our great ally the United States is very susceptible to well-funded powerful lobbying groups and the power of the Jewish lobby in America, it falls to this country and to this House to be the good but critical friend that Israel needs, and this motion tonight just might lift that logjam on this very troubled area?"

The European monitoring centre has been clear that this equating of Jews with the State of Israel is a common form of and is indeed anti Semitic.

And how about this, which apparently passes for political humour in Oman?

http://archive.adl.org/anti_semitism/arab/cartoon_al_watan_031402.html

Who are you trying to kid?! How do you know that someone hasn't called what that MP said as anti semitic or sees it as such? People even call jewish people as anti semitic and as self haters if they criticise israel!

Bottom line is people can criticise israel and should not be scred off by people crying anti semitism.

Beanybun · 20/10/14 - 07:56

Styker wrote: »

Who are you trying to kid?! How do you know that someone hasn't called what that MP said as anti semitic or sees it as such? People even call jewish people as anti semitic and as self haters if they criticise israel!

Bottom line is people can criticise israel and should not be scred off by people crying anti semitism.

No need to get angry, just because you're wrong (again)...

The phrase "jewish lobby" is deeply anti semitic, in almost every context I've seen it used in recent years.

If you want to talk about "the jewish lobby" in the context of a debate over kashrut, say, or circumcision, fair enough, it has some meaning.

But talk about it in the context of Israel, or US foreign or monetary policy and bingo, the author is conflating religion,Israel, banking conspiracies and modelling a giant tinfoil hat. It drips from every pore and I don't need to be patronised by you, thanks very much

This is what you encourage, btw...

http://archive.adl.org/anti_semitism/arab/cartoon_al_watan_031402.html

FMKK · 20/10/14 - 18:48

Is Beanybun playing the "you must never criticise Israel" game again?

Ethel_Fred · 20/10/14 - 19:06

Beanybun wrote: »

The phrase "jewish lobby" is deeply anti semitic, in almost every context I've seen it used in recent years.

Given that the Israeli government use "Jew" and "Israel" interchangeably is it a wonder people are confused.

Meanwhile Three-quarters of Israeli Jews oppose detail of Palestinian state

Styker · 22/10/14 - 18:51

Beanybun wrote: »

No need to get angry, just because you're wrong (again)...

The phrase "jewish lobby" is deeply anti semitic, in almost every context I've seen it used in recent years.

If you want to talk about "the jewish lobby" in the context of a debate over kashrut, say, or circumcision, fair enough, it has some meaning.

But talk about it in the context of Israel, or US foreign or monetary policy and bingo, the author is conflating religion,Israel, banking conspiracies and modelling a giant tinfoil hat. It drips from every pore and I don't need to be patronised by you, thanks very much

This is what you encourage, btw...

http://archive.adl.org/anti_semitism/arab/cartoon_al_watan_031402.html

First of all I didn't even use the word Jewish Lobby but B, why is using those words anti semtic anyway? Its alright to mention all other religions but not anything to do with the jewish religion?

Again, I think this shows how people just throw the accusation of anti semtism around trying to scare people off from making criticisms but you won't scare me off and tell me something, when has someone been convicted of a hate crime because they used the words jewish lobby?

jediknight2k1 · 22/10/14 - 19:31

Ethel_Fred wrote: »

Given that the Israeli government use "Jew" and "Israel" interchangeably is it a wonder people are confused.

Meanwhile Three-quarters of Israeli Jews oppose detail of Palestinian state

The Guardian which is known to be one of the most anti-Israeli newspapers around.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-peace-conference/1.601996Despite it all, most Israelis still support the two-state solution

http://www.kas.de/israel/en/pages/11244/

June 2014: Despite the halt in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, 66% of the Palestinians and 52% of the Israelis think that these negotiations will resume. At the same time each side continues to view the intentions of the other as posing an existential threat. According to the June 2014 poll, current opinions regarding conflict resolution are consistent with previous results: 62% of Israelis and 54% of Palestinians still support a two-state solution.

The usual rhetoric from The Guardian who got the results 'rightwing thinktank' and as usual no numbers given the amount of people polled or any other information.

Ed R.Marley · 22/10/14 - 19:40

Alan Duncan got knighted??

Scraping the barrel a bit aren't they?

Styker · 22/10/14 - 19:47

Ed R.Marley wrote: »

Alan Duncan got knighted??

Scraping the barrel a bit aren't they?

Cameron seems to be handing out knighthoods like confetti. It seems to be a consoation prize for when he sacks them from a Government job!

There is also a "Sir Nick Harvey" former Government Minister too, made a Knight after he lost his job as a MOD Minister and I'm sure there are quite a few others.

Cameron seems to also be giving Knighthoods to backbenchers that can rock the boat like Bill Cash. A way of placating them perhaps?

IMO Cameron has copied Tony Blair in so many things and he and Osborne have pretty much admitted they follow Tony Blair's lead on most things and when it comes to Knighthoods, its another thing that Blair did a lot of too.

I also noticed how Cameron used the words the other say that "The British People Are The Boss". Tony Blair used to use those worlds, especially just before General Elections. roll eyes!

Hey there!

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Sir Alan Duncan criticises Israeli settlements and gets called 'anti-Semitic'

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