"Classic FM claims BBC Radio 3 'apes' its output for more listeners" - Telegraph

InkblotInkblot Posts: 26,889
Forum Member
✭✭✭
The Daily Telegraph continues its campaign to vilify the BBC at every opportunity with a report that Classic FM has submitted a complaint to to a Culture, Media and Sport Committee review into the “future of the BBC”, ahead of the government reconsidering the licence fee in 2016.

BBC Radio 3 is trying to “ape” its commercial rival Classic FM by copying its most successful innovations in a bid to increase audiences, it has been claimed.
Classic FM, which classes itself as a direct competitor of Radio 3 “in a market of two”, has accused the corporation of making “major programming changes” to “gradually erode the gap” between them.
The “stark” changes, it claims, include a “lighter” repertoire, playing shorter extracts of works, introducing phone-ins, scrapping daily classical music for children and bringing in a new film score programme broadcast an hour before its own.


However the Telegraph's listeners aren't entirely convinced by Classic FM's offer. A letter in today's paper says

SIR – It seems to me that several times a week, when I happen to be within earshot of Classic FM, Rimsky-Korsakov’s “Scheherazade” is being played.
I emailed Classic FM some time ago for an explanation but did not receive a reply. With such a huge choice of music available, why does it happen? Yes, it’s a nice piece of music, but so what?


Funnily enough I've noticed the same thing - every time I tune in they're playing Scheherazade. On the other hand, last time I tuned in to Radio 3 it was playing Remembering A Beginning by Colorado transcendental folk band Elephant Revival. You don't hear that on heavy rotation on Classic FM.
«1

Comments

  • Phil AnderPhil Ander Posts: 1,556
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Well said. Classic FM is owned by Global who apply the same old same old format to classical music as they do to Smooth Radio. Okay in small doses but very repetitive.
  • david1956david1956 Posts: 2,389
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Inkblot wrote: »
    The Daily Telegraph continues its campaign to vilify the BBC at every opportunity with a report that Classic FM has submitted a complaint to to a Culture, Media and Sport Committee review into the “future of the BBC”, ahead of the government reconsidering the licence fee in 2016.

    BBC Radio 3 is trying to “ape” its commercial rival Classic FM by copying its most successful innovations in a bid to increase audiences, it has been claimed.
    Classic FM, which classes itself as a direct competitor of Radio 3 “in a market of two”, has accused the corporation of making “major programming changes” to “gradually erode the gap” between them.
    The “stark” changes, it claims, include a “lighter” repertoire, playing shorter extracts of works, introducing phone-ins, scrapping daily classical music for children and bringing in a new film score programme broadcast an hour before its own.


    However the Telegraph's listeners aren't entirely convinced by Classic FM's offer. A letter in today's paper says

    SIR – It seems to me that several times a week, when I happen to be within earshot of Classic FM, Rimsky-Korsakov’s “Scheherazade” is being played.
    I emailed Classic FM some time ago for an explanation but did not receive a reply. With such a huge choice of music available, why does it happen? Yes, it’s a nice piece of music, but so what?


    Funnily enough I've noticed the same thing - every time I tune in they're playing Scheherazade. On the other hand, last time I tuned in to Radio 3 it was playing Remembering A Beginning by Colorado transcendental folk band Elephant Revival. You don't hear that on heavy rotation on Classic FM.


    Who cares what Global think.
  • MSBMSB Posts: 1,408
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Classic FM has three times the audience of Radio 3.

    The BBC's "ape-ing" hasn't been very successful.
  • mfrmfr Posts: 5,619
    Forum Member
    Inkblot wrote: »
    Funnily enough I've noticed the same thing - every time I tune in they're playing Scheherazade. On the other hand, last time I tuned in to Radio 3 it was playing Remembering A Beginning by Colorado transcendental folk band Elephant Revival. You don't hear that on heavy rotation on Classic FM.

    The two stations are completely different. Radio 3 has done much to make its programming more accessible but that has been common sense changes - there's little point having long form pieces at breakfast. They still manage to play music that Classic FM would never play.

    Instead of giving Classic FM licence fee money, why not leave it where it is?
  • SouthCitySouthCity Posts: 12,465
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Inkblot wrote: »
    The Daily Telegraph continues its campaign to vilify the BBC at every opportunity with a report that Classic FM has submitted a complaint to to a Culture, Media and Sport Committee review into the “future of the BBC”, ahead of the government reconsidering the licence fee in 2016.

    It's not a complaint, the Culture Media & Sport Select committee has asked for written evidence from all interested parties (including commercial broadcasters) as part of their work on the BBC Charter renewal (due in 2017). ITV & Sky have also made submissions.

    There is nothing to see here, Global were simply making a written submission as requested and the Telegraph have tried to make it into news, which it isn't.
  • InkblotInkblot Posts: 26,889
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    SouthCity wrote: »
    It's not a complaint, the Culture Media & Sport Select committee has asked for written evidence from all interested parties (including commercial broadcasters) as part of their work on the BBC Charter renewal (due in 2017). ITV & Sky have also made submissions.

    There is nothing to see here, Global were simply making a written submission as requested.

    The Telegraph reported the story as Classic FM accusing the BBC of changing its programmes to erode Classic FM's audience. The word "accused" implies that the BBC is in the wrong. On the other hand a Telegraph reader points out that Classic FM has a repetitive playlist. I was highlighting the two points of view - anti-BBC bias and the reality that listeners don't always prefer small playlists - both appearing in the same paper.
  • Peace100Peace100 Posts: 3,155
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    interesting to see this weekend a number of letters in the Telegraph from Classic FM listeners complaining about the high repetition of certain tracks!!
  • CynicalGnomeCynicalGnome Posts: 105
    Forum Member
    They do have a point though: Sound of Cinema ends - 'coincidentally' - a few moments before Classic FM's "Saturday Night at the Movies" is transmitted; a shame they're both pre-recorded hehe
  • MSBMSB Posts: 1,408
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    The only newish programme Radio 3 have introduced was The Sound of Cinema, which *could* be seen as an attempt to catch a more populist audience.

    Radio 3 will forever be caught in-between the need to increase audience (to justify its existence and to satisfy the BBC Trust) and to keep its output unique. In any case, like the whole corporation it can't win either way.

    Odd from the Telegraph, a fairly cultured newspaper to back Classic FM over Radio 3. Who did they upset over there?
  • InkblotInkblot Posts: 26,889
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    MSB wrote: »
    Odd from the Telegraph, a fairly cultured newspaper to back Classic FM over Radio 3. Who did they upset over there?

    Unfortunately the Telegraph has become very anti-BBC. It has good, impartial culture articles, theatre and film reviews etc, but it rarely publishes anything positive about any BBC programmes.
  • Gerry1Gerry1 Posts: 4,215
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    MSB wrote: »
    Odd from the Telegraph, a fairly cultured newspaper to back Classic FM over Radio 3. Who did they upset over there?
    The Telegraph is cultured?? You must be joking ! The only sort of Telegraph culture would grow in a Petri dish. :D

    Under the odious Barclay brothers it's become a sort of Tea Party rag that relentlessly promotes a virulent religious, rightwing, homophobic agenda. It utterly detests the BBC, and has a quota of at least one anti-BBC story every day.
  • Colin_LondonColin_London Posts: 12,714
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    The commercial radio sector has form when it makes submissions to consultations like this. We saw the same with 6Music. Even though the statements don't hold up to scrutiny the commercial operators have nothing to lose by making them. So they do.

    And the Telegraph (like the Mail) won't, of course, let an anti-BBC story pass if they can help it.

    Radio 3 has little overlap with Classic FM, in the same way as 6Music has little overlap with Absolute. It has expensive production material that could not turn a profit commercially due to the audiences, and so can only be produced under the Public Service Broadcasting model.
  • Anthony_RyanAnthony_Ryan Posts: 445
    Forum Member
    I remember reading somewhere that when Classic FM started that some management person at that station said that they saw themselves as competing against Radio Two and Radio Four and not Radio Three.
  • InkblotInkblot Posts: 26,889
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Coincidentally I used the Telegraph article to wrap some food rubbish for recycling this morning and was amused to see that the picture the paper used to illustrate the story was of a pretty young female violinist. Apparently she presents a programme on R3 but I don't think that's why they used the photo.
  • Gerry1Gerry1 Posts: 4,215
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Inkblot wrote: »
    Coincidentally I used the Telegraph article to wrap some food rubbish for recycling this morning and was amused to see that the picture the paper used to illustrate the story was of a pretty young female violinist. Apparently she presents a programme on R3 but I don't think that's why they used the photo.
    You really must find a better fish and chip shop. :)
  • Gerry1Gerry1 Posts: 4,215
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I remember reading somewhere that when Classic FM started that some management person at that station said that they saw themselves as competing against Radio Two and Radio Four and not Radio Three.
    Perhaps to reassure potential advertisers that they would have millions of listeners? They probably also wanted to emphasise that they wouldn't be threatening Radio 3.

    It was probably a thowback to the launch of ILR two decades earlier: there had been great pressure on the brash, upstart commercial radio organisations to appease the Establishment. Capital Radio had gone to great pains to stress that they would be playing light music, easy listening and a couple of serials, only competing with the ultra-respectable Radio 2 and not playing anything so vulgar as pop music that, heaven forbid, might attract any of the great unwashed that infested Radio 1...
  • smorrissmorris Posts: 2,084
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Inkblot wrote: »
    On the other hand, last time I tuned in to Radio 3 it was playing Remembering A Beginning by Colorado transcendental folk band Elephant Revival. You don't hear that on heavy rotation on Classic FM.
    Exactly.

    But Global is required to say these things. Their shareholders could benefit greatly if Radio 3 were closed, and they are obliged to put forward arguments for that to happen.

    If Radio 3 were not competing for their audience, they could condemn it for being elitist and obscure. That argument successfully led to the closure of Denmark's classical music network, and its frequencies being handed over to commercial radio. Clearly such lobbying can pay dividends, and I think shareholders would ask serious questions of Global if they weren't doing it.

    But I hope the government (which supposedly understands industry) will recognise that and treat Global's bleating with a pinch of salt.
  • Terry PurvisTerry Purvis Posts: 143
    Forum Member
    smorris wrote: »
    But Global is required to say these things. Their shareholders could benefit greatly if Radio 3 were closed, and they are obliged to put forward arguments for that to happen.

    I think you'll find Global has "owners" rather than shareholders in the traditional sense and their identity is carefully obscured via a Jersey holding company which in turn is controlled by a British Virgin Islands company.

    This arrangement allows them to employ all the usual clever tax avoidance methods ensuring HMRC receives no tax income on the profits the company makes.

    An article called "From the Heart of Capital to the Classic Gold Choice, tax avoidance is just a beat away" on the Tax Research UK website explains the ownership questions and tax arrangements very clearly.
  • InkblotInkblot Posts: 26,889
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    From the front page of the Telegraph web site:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10607639/Why-Radio-3-is-out-of-tune-with-its-listeners.html

    complete with unnecessary photo of pretty young Radio 3 presenter.
  • LateralthinkingLateralthinking Posts: 8,027
    Forum Member
    I'm all for diversity and R3 providing a standard commercial radio can't provide.

    But to slightly play devil's advocate, since when was imitation prohibited in competition?

    It seems to me that Global are happy with competition only if the other competitor has at least one hand tied behind the back and a wooden leg.

    I think the premise behind its accusations should be challenged first.
  • lundavralundavra Posts: 31,790
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Inkblot wrote: »
    From the front page of the Telegraph web site:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10607639/Why-Radio-3-is-out-of-tune-with-its-listeners.html

    complete with unnecessary photo of pretty young Radio 3 presenter.

    For as long as I can remember there have been moans if Radio 3 did any programme at all that appealed to a more general audience. There is a clique who believe that it should be extremely elitist and I sometimes think that they believe if anyone else but themselves listen then it has failed.
  • InkblotInkblot Posts: 26,889
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    lundavra wrote: »
    For as long as I can remember there have been moans if Radio 3 did any programme at all that appealed to a more general audience. There is a clique who believe that it should be extremely elitist and I sometimes think that they believe if anyone else but themselves listen then it has failed.

    In a shocking move, the other evening Radio 3 spent about 30 minutes discussing Blurred Lines. Turns out it's not the Robin Thicke song, but a play at the National Theatre:

    Bllurred Lines is a blistering journey through contemporary gender politics. An all female cast dissect what it means to be a woman today: in the workplace, in cyberspace, on screen, on stage and in relationships.

    You don't get that on Smooth Classics with Margherita Taylor.
  • PizzatheactionPizzatheaction Posts: 20,157
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    The missing listeners are nothing to do with Radio 3 or any other station. It's a result of how Classic has been run recently.
  • MSBMSB Posts: 1,408
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    lundavra wrote: »
    For as long as I can remember there have been moans if Radio 3 did any programme at all that appealed to a more general audience. There is a clique who believe that it should be extremely elitist and I sometimes think that they believe if anyone else but themselves listen then it has failed.

    For sure, but I think there is also pressure from the BBC Trust to push Radio 3 to be more populist, in order to justify its expense.

    There has been a history of the BBC reacting to competiton by "ape-ing" them, and Classic FM may have a point. I just wished they did it without the whinging commercial operators before them have done.
  • FrankBTFrankBT Posts: 4,218
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Classic FM is an awful tedious station which is more suitable for piped music in an elderly residential home. Global completely ruined this station which started out in the mid 90s as a serious classical station and rival for R3's audience with plenty of variety. But to pretend now that its output is being copied by R3 is just risible.

    For years its output has been reduced to a very narrow selection of the same movements of the same symphonies/concertos and it morphed into an easy listening station that plays orchestral music rather than classical. How often do they ever play any arias which is something they did years back? Thankfully I gave up on ClFM years ago, and I bet it's still like listening to a tape-loop playing "smooth classics" with the Star Wars theme or Ludovico Einaudi featured every hour or so. Nothing will ever change there.
Sign In or Register to comment.