Problems with network-status

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 32
    Forum Member
    Shaun, those speeds are still more than we're getting in Scotland. I'm guessing capacity has been shared somewhat until the problems in Irvine are resolved.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 30
    Forum Member
    Problem is as much as it sounds bad they should never moved the problem. As you have to get what you pay for and we are not.It been better to give problem net works discount to it sorted.
    As it stands now the net work is not up to what lot off uses pay for. Streaming on like netflix will not go to hd move as the speeds. so not only are you paying for broadband but other services and losing out on them as well.
    Also speed test only shows temp speed as well as there is throttling software in pay at moment witch slows down everything
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6
    Forum Member
    Dave,

    I presume most of these issues are related to the availble downstream bandwidth you have available, given the fact 90% of your average internet use is Downstream (RX).

    Would also explain why Upload speeds seem fairly constant.

    Who is your preferred Transit/Carrier in terms of downstream or do you load-balance / load-share your BGP Prefix announcements use AS-PATH prepending? Thus using multiple providers for inbound (more or less....)

    How do you rate C&W by the way?

    Have a valid interest in there performance as a Transit provider (or lack thereof sometimes).

    Dunc.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 21
    Forum Member
    Jetstorm72 wrote: »
    Problem is as much as it sounds bad they should never moved the problem. As you have to get what you pay for and we are not.It been better to give problem net works discount to it sorted.
    As it stands now the net work is not up to what lot off uses pay for. Streaming on like netflix will not go to hd move as the speeds. so not only are you paying for broadband but other services and losing out on them as well.
    Also speed test only shows temp speed as well as there is throttling software in pay at moment witch slows down everything

    Translator please, so I can understand wtf this user is trying to say
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 290
    Forum Member
    Dave,

    I presume most of these issues are related to the availble downstream bandwidth you have available, given the fact 90% of your average internet use is Downstream (RX).

    Would also explain why Upload speeds seem fairly constant.

    Who is your preferred Transit/Carrier in terms of downstream or do you load-balance / load-share your BGP Prefix announcements use AS-PATH prepending? Thus using multiple providers for inbound (more or less....)

    How do you rate C&W by the way?

    Have a valid interest in there performance as a Transit provider (or lack thereof sometimes).

    Dunc.

    Hi

    Apologies for the delay in replying - have just returned from Nepal with the family, and so was off DS for a couple of weeks.

    We send traffic to L3, Global X, C&W and Edge IX (peering) currently, though that will change this Autumn as our contracts are up for negotiation and we don't see a diversity benefit in Level 3 and Global X since their merger.

    C&W are OK but their account management has gone downhill badly over the past few years from when our account was handled by Thus. On a day to day basis they can be fine (though the network is not as good as L3 for example). However if something goes wrong it can be a pain, and they have a tendency to try and hide their mistakes (like Openreach from experience) - which of course is frustrating and wastes everybody's time.

    We should have plenty of capacity, but still aren't getting a satisfactory answer from C&W as to why our transit pipe with them seems to be throttling traffic way below our capacity limit. In the meantime we have increased our throughput to our other transit providers.

    Over the next few weeks we are introducing more capacity still, and will be putting more pressure on C&W to address the issues we believe exist still. If they don't then we'll drop them.

    That probably explains how I feel about C&W... When they're good they can be very good. When they're bad then they're often awful.

    Ta

    David
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 30
    Forum Member
    Hope you had a good time..

    But since you went away the connection in carlisle went down hill big time.

    As far as can see they set up throttling software to try fix the problems and just mayed the hole thing worses.

    it shows travel throw the same ip two times..

    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
    2 6 ms 5 ms 6 ms host-84-19-102-254.smallworlduk.com [84.19.102.254]
    3 7 ms 8 ms 7 ms morzcr01-ve15.smallworlduk.com [80.255.192.41]
    4 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms morzcr01-ve15.smallworlduk.com [80.255.192.41]
    5 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms netrino-a.edge-ix.net [212.121.34.128]
    6 18 ms 18 ms 17 ms lonap.netarch.akamai.com [193.203.5.72]
    7 18 ms 19 ms 18 ms a92-123-154-90.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com [92.123.154.90]
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 290
    Forum Member
    Jetstorm72 wrote: »
    Hope you had a good time..

    But since you went away the connection in carlisle went down hill big time.

    As far as can see they set up throttling software to try fix the problems and just mayed the hole thing worses.

    it shows travel throw the same ip two times..

    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
    2 6 ms 5 ms 6 ms host-84-19-102-254.smallworlduk.com [84.19.102.254]
    3 7 ms 8 ms 7 ms morzcr01-ve15.smallworlduk.com [80.255.192.41]
    4 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms morzcr01-ve15.smallworlduk.com [80.255.192.41]
    5 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms netrino-a.edge-ix.net [212.121.34.128]
    6 18 ms 18 ms 17 ms lonap.netarch.akamai.com [193.203.5.72]
    7 18 ms 19 ms 18 ms a92-123-154-90.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com [92.123.154.90]

    Thanks

    We got to the bottom of the congestion (C&W has shared out 'dedicated' gigabit links with another provider and hence we were not getting all the bandwidth at peak times that we were expecting (and that they assured). Not happy...

    We've been pinching some Carlisle bandwidth and we're going to reverse that in the next week so you should see an improvement imminently. After that we're planning our big network upgrade which will take place over the summer...

    Thanks for your patience

    Kind regards

    David
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6
    Forum Member
    Hi

    Apologies for the delay in replying - have just returned from Nepal with the family, and so was off DS for a couple of weeks.

    We send traffic to L3, Global X, C&W and Edge IX (peering) currently, though that will change this Autumn as our contracts are up for negotiation and we don't see a diversity benefit in Level 3 and Global X since their merger.

    C&W are OK but their account management has gone downhill badly over the past few years from when our account was handled by Thus. On a day to day basis they can be fine (though the network is not as good as L3 for example). However if something goes wrong it can be a pain, and they have a tendency to try and hide their mistakes (like Openreach from experience) - which of course is frustrating and wastes everybody's time.

    We should have plenty of capacity, but still aren't getting a satisfactory answer from C&W as to why our transit pipe with them seems to be throttling traffic way below our capacity limit. In the meantime we have increased our throughput to our other transit providers.

    Over the next few weeks we are introducing more capacity still, and will be putting more pressure on C&W to address the issues we believe exist still. If they don't then we'll drop them.

    That probably explains how I feel about C&W... When they're good they can be very good. When they're bad then they're often awful.

    Ta

    David

    Hi Dave,

    Hope you had good time in Nepal, I imagine that was quite a place for a holiday!

    Main reason I asked is we've just had a new circuit installed at our Office in Carnforth which is sold via THUS but ultimately goes back to CWW (ASN 1273), delivery so far has been nothing short of horrific.

    Commisioned our edge router last night only to find out that BGP Session with there router in Manchester wasn't setup as planned.....

    We looked at Level3 / GBLX but there backhaul costs we're too much, mainly due to our "in the sticks" location.

    Hopefully the next DC will be better positioned geographically.

    Curiosity, have you ever considered running a web page off the main SmallWorld site with MRTG graphs for some of the SmallWorld routers? Might give people an insight into how much traffic is being pumped through on a daily basis.

    Thanks,
    Duncan.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 290
    Forum Member
    Hi Dave,

    Hope you had good time in Nepal, I imagine that was quite a place for a holiday!

    Main reason I asked is we've just had a new circuit installed at our Office in Carnforth which is sold via THUS but ultimately goes back to CWW (ASN 1273), delivery so far has been nothing short of horrific.

    Commisioned our edge router last night only to find out that BGP Session with there router in Manchester wasn't setup as planned.....

    We looked at Level3 / GBLX but there backhaul costs we're too much, mainly due to our "in the sticks" location.

    Hopefully the next DC will be better positioned geographically.

    Curiosity, have you ever considered running a web page off the main SmallWorld site with MRTG graphs for some of the SmallWorld routers? Might give people an insight into how much traffic is being pumped through on a daily basis.

    Thanks,
    Duncan.

    Hi Duncan

    Yes I had a good time in Nepal thanks...seems an age ago now but the family all enjoyed it (despite the hail and snow up high).

    We had a Thus feed into C&W via Carnforth for a couple of years, back in 2009 or so. It was abysmal I'm afraid, and never got better. That's why we dropped it and went to L3 / Global X. I worry that you might never get that link to work properly - we never did, even though the Thus link in Irvine has been fine (until they recently contended it without telling us, leading to all the issues that this thread started with).

    The problem with the link you have is that it has never been integrated with the C&W network properly, as far as I can tell.

    You could get a BT tail to our head-end in Morecambe if you like, and we can provide transit from there (we do have fibre through Carnforth, but we would need DWDM kit installed to break the link and give you service).

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that C&W link is a bad 'un I'm afraid...

    Why do you need your own DC - you could just rent space in one of ours?

    Haven't thought about the graphs - will mention it to the tech guys.

    Thanks

    David
    Smallworld Cable
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 30
    Forum Member
    Has the carlisle speed return been dune yet.
    As there load connections to some sites with very slow speeds still.
    thanks
  • meherenowmeherenow Posts: 132
    Forum Member
    Speeds are still slow and it's been some time since I last posted saying people should give them the benefit of the doubt.

    I'm currently seeing around 30Mb/s on a 50Mb/s connection and that's taking several connections to max out at that speed.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6
    Forum Member
    Hi Dave,

    It's always bad when more than a few people say the same thing about a company, however we did manage to resolve the problem albeit I gave them the solution.

    Had to deliver the tail directly to our Edge router via a 1000Base-LX SFP thus cutting out there pathetic media converter.

    Service has been rock-solid now delivering a BGP peering.

    We run our own DC because we're a Hosted Desktop / VDI provider and have an ISO27001 DC due to the data storage requirements.

    Unfortunately I think it would cost a great deal to host the amount of equipment we own! :)

    I appreciate the offer of taking transit from you via Morecambe and I think I'll keep this as a backup plan for the future, my only concern would be the increase in AS_PATH length of going via yourselves.

    On a seperate note, this area and the North generally really, really lacks the presence of a good IXP, someone needs to put the investment into building an IX up something like LINX or MANAP (Edge-IX).

    Just be painful getting the relevant carriers to bury investment into delivering fibre to the facility.

    Food for thought.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 290
    Forum Member
    Hi Dave,

    It's always bad when more than a few people say the same thing about a company, however we did manage to resolve the problem albeit I gave them the solution.

    Had to deliver the tail directly to our Edge router via a 1000Base-LX SFP thus cutting out there pathetic media converter.

    Service has been rock-solid now delivering a BGP peering.

    We run our own DC because we're a Hosted Desktop / VDI provider and have an ISO27001 DC due to the data storage requirements.

    Unfortunately I think it would cost a great deal to host the amount of equipment we own! :)

    I appreciate the offer of taking transit from you via Morecambe and I think I'll keep this as a backup plan for the future, my only concern would be the increase in AS_PATH length of going via yourselves.

    On a seperate note, this area and the North generally really, really lacks the presence of a good IXP, someone needs to put the investment into building an IX up something like LINX or MANAP (Edge-IX).

    Just be painful getting the relevant carriers to bury investment into delivering fibre to the facility.

    Food for thought.

    Hi

    You may find the AS path issue is not a problem, since we find C&W is +1 from the link we have with L3 / GC / Edge IX.

    In any case currently our Morecambe datacentre is configured as a remote POP of Edge IX so you can interconnect with them directly if you want, and just take some co-lo for your onsite equipment. We are now talking to Manchester IX (the new Manchester arm of Linx) and may replace Edge IX with a POP from them instead. We have thought of doing that in Carlisle instead / as well. A lot depends on fibre interconnection.

    It's a little up in the air since we're currently in discussions to replace our Gb links with 10Gb links...which opens up some other discussions. Doesn't seem long ago we had 100Mb transit pipes!

    Glad to hear you've got your link sorted.

    Thanks

    David
    Smallworld Cable




    We may in time put an exchange in
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 30
    Forum Member
    Your web site needs changing as (Our 50Mb broadband is more than twice as fast as any other available in the area, and our speeds are not dependent on your distance from our exchange.) the new bt speeds make this not true.

    Also What been dun with Carlisle as we still yet to see are service back to what it was before you left on holiday.
    the new throttling software or hardware you have in place now makes every thing so slow. even other companys that run this do not throttle 24/7, they have in place different caps at different times. it not fare we pay for 50mb line and not getting what we pay for
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 290
    Forum Member
    Jetstorm72 wrote: »
    Your web site needs changing as (Our 50Mb broadband is more than twice as fast as any other available in the area, and our speeds are not dependent on your distance from our exchange.) the new bt speeds make this not true.

    Also What been dun with Carlisle as we still yet to see are service back to what it was before you left on holiday.
    the new throttling software or hardware you have in place now makes every thing so slow. even other companys that run this do not throttle 24/7, they have in place different caps at different times. it not fare we pay for 50mb line and not getting what we pay for

    Hi

    Point taken on the website...will get it changed in the next while (although from what we hear the actual speeds on Infinity in our area, esp Kilmarnock, have been poor).

    Carlisle was only throttled temporarily and that has been lifted. There is new equipment being installed in Carlisle as part of a big upgrade that's happening this summer, but we're not seeing capacity issues in Carlisle. Can you email me your details and we'll see if there's something specific to you? A link to my email is on the support tab of the website (DS get funny about me posting an email link).

    In general we don't have any traffic management or throttling in place on our network, so where we get speed issues it is either contention / capacity or an individual issue. We have seen much better speeds in the past few weeks and we have a lot of extra capacity coming on line ahead of the speed increases we have planned, so perhaps the issue is specific to you. It may be worth getting one of the new superhubs to you - these have had excellent feedback from customers.

    Thanks

    David
    Owner, Smallworld Cable
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 120
    Forum Member
    Hi



    Carlisle was only throttled temporarily and that has been lifted. There is new equipment being installed in Carlisle as part of a big upgrade that's happening this summer, but we're not seeing capacity issues in Carlisle.
    Just for interest I'm getting results similar to when I last reported. The results depend, though, on the test chosen; I get faster speeds reported when I use the mini-test to those using the usual Smallworld speedtest.

    Usual test; ping, down, up: 11, 23.16, 5.20 / 9, 35.68, 5.17 / 9, 38.41, 5.20
    Minitest: 9, 43.09, 5.26 / 10, 42.83, 5.25 / 9, 42.39, 5.25

    (NB - these are the results with my Mac connected to the internet via a router; I get results nearer to the 50 expected (on the minitest) if I connect the computer directly and not via the router.)

    Why do the two tests give different results? And, if there's no throttling of speed, why are these results similar to the ones reported when there was throttling?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 120
    Forum Member
    (oops, double post)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 290
    Forum Member
    Just for interest I'm getting results similar to when I last reported. The results depend, though, on the test chosen; I get faster speeds reported when I use the mini-test to those using the usual Smallworld speedtest.

    Usual test; ping, down, up: 11, 23.16, 5.20 / 9, 35.68, 5.17 / 9, 38.41, 5.20
    Minitest: 9, 43.09, 5.26 / 10, 42.83, 5.25 / 9, 42.39, 5.25

    (NB - these are the results with my Mac connected to the internet via a router; I get results nearer to the 50 expected (on the minitest) if I connect the computer directly and not via the router.)

    Why do the two tests give different results? And, if there's no throttling of speed, why are these results similar to the ones reported when there was throttling?

    Hi

    I should probably clarify. We don't traffic shape or throttle at all, but we diverted extra traffic from Irvine via the same link that carries the Carlisle traffic, hence some congestion. Your speed issue may be specific - router or noise. If you can send me your details we can get that looked at. Which router / modem are you on? It may be worth trying one of our new superhubs.

    David
    www.smallworldcable.com
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 30
    Forum Member
    Come on we need things getting fixed

    As it getting worse.

    http://www.speedtest.net/result/1948886071.png

    Test to http://80.255.220.2/ down 50.49 up 4.36

    So line is working right just a really bad problem your end.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 30
    Forum Member
    Got guy coming out to fix on Wednesday, so hope fully it works as normal again then.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 60
    Forum Member
    Hi

    although from what we hear the actual speeds on Infinity in our area, esp Kilmarnock, have been poor

    I didn't think anyone had it in Kilmarnock yet? Launch date on Openreach site is showing as September.

    Are you planning on launching a product to compete with Infinity 2? I'd expect to compete with the encumbant you need to be cheaper, faster or probably both. 100/20 would be nice if BT I2 can manage 80/20.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 290
    Forum Member
    I didn't think anyone had it in Kilmarnock yet? Launch date on Openreach site is showing as September.

    Are you planning on launching a product to compete with Infinity 2? I'd expect to compete with the encumbant you need to be cheaper, faster or probably both. 100/20 would be nice if BT I2 can manage 80/20.

    Hi

    Yes we are planning to launch...probably September but at worse by Easter next year.

    Currently am thinking of having a 30Mb tier and a 100Mb tier (30/3 and 100/20 probably), but may retain a 10Mb entry level. I think there's an advantage in keeping it simple.

    Pricing will be c. £15 (as current) and £25, but may be cheaper...still tbc. Supersavers with TV will be discounted on the 'sum of the parts' price.

    Don't really see the point of going 30Mb, 60Mb and 100/120Mb as VM have.

    Open to views as always

    Thanks

    David
    www.smallworldcable.com
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 30
    Forum Member
    Sounds good on new speeds
    The new superhub works well, speed are back up, but notice there still problems after 6 speed drop heavy and also with program you head ip guy asked me to uses, dun some watching the net work and there lot really bad spikes in pings witch jump from 30 to 200 is very large.

    I am up for testing any new speeds as your new modem can go to next speed.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 290
    Forum Member
    Jetstorm72 wrote: »
    Sounds good on new speeds
    The new superhub works well, speed are back up, but notice there still problems after 6 speed drop heavy and also with program you head ip guy asked me to uses, dun some watching the net work and there lot really bad spikes in pings witch jump from 30 to 200 is very large.

    I am up for testing any new speeds as your new modem can go to next speed.

    Hi

    Can you share some of the speeds / pings with the tech teams (call 160) if possible?

    Don't expect to see that sort of latency (though of course it can depend on what site you are visiting).

    Thanks

    David
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 60
    Forum Member

    Don't really see the point of going 30Mb, 60Mb and 100/120Mb as VM have.

    Open to views as always

    Thanks

    David
    www.smallworldcable.com

    Have you considered offering FTTP? Is it possible to route fibre in the existing conduits under the pavements to the premises?
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