"Lets say vast numbers of christians emigrated to an islamic country, refused to intergrate, learn the language etc. The christians started wearing their own style of clothing, women in short skirts, uncovered heads etc. They also started to build western-style buildings, such as churches, butchers (selling typical fayre, including pork), cinemas (showing 'immoral decadent' western movies) hey, maybe even a pub or two - in effect, instead of embracing their new country and its culture, they are trying to build a mini-version of the country they just left
Meanwhile, some christians are killing muslims by planting bombs on their transport systems, shopping centres, any place where large numbers of muslims may gather in fact. Other christians burn the national flag and other symbolic emblems pertaining to the country which has allowed them to live there and has provided them with houses, medical facilities, education, all manner of things they didn'tget in their original country
Brave islamic soldiers come back from war and christians line the streets wishing them dead, burning more flags and stuff. There's a hardly a day goes by when the christians aren't complaining about some christian-related issue"
Until the above hyperthetical situation becomes a reality, I don't think those referring to christian-related violence as a response to islamic-related violence have a leg to stand on as it were
Why bother? It will add nothing to the discussion except offer more angles for ridicule for both parties.
You have yours I have mine.
Well, no. Considering how many times youve barked at people for 'not having evidence' - why not give us your side? Also why even reply to me saying theres lots of evidence when you have no intention of sharing? Sounds like a bit of a drama queen moment to me.
I make no claims of knowing all about religion, all I know is that in my opinion the world would be a better and safer place without it. All religion does is offer a name for hatred and fear of your fellow man. Yes it states numerous times in many religious texts that you should love and respect your fellow man but in religions eyes your fellow man is your equal. What religion considers equal is not what the vast majority of us in this thread consider equal.
But what if they have lived in a town that gives them more insight in to these issues than some of the posters on here .
Sure they can have opinions, talk about their lives and the problems where they live (although it seems both are reluctant to go into detail about it).
But when they make claims and generalisations about Islam or Muslims in a national or international or social basis, I'm not sure how accurate anything they say is given previous form.
This is all starting to remind me of a brief exchange I had on Facebook recently. Someone whose friend request I'd accepted because I knew her from school and was vaguely interested in how other people were getting on these days. She posted, about the poppy-burning, "set light to their turbans, the scum!" I commented "Erm... it's actually Sikhs who wear turbans." The reply? "F*ck em anyway lol".
This is all starting to remind me of a brief exchange I had on Facebook recently. Someone whose friend request I'd accepted because I knew her from school and was vaguely interested in how other people were getting on these days. She posted, about the poppy-burning, "set light to their turbans, the scum!" I commented "Erm... it's actually Sikhs who wear turbans." The reply? "F*ck em anyway lol".
I take it that the schooling you both shared benefitted you a lot more than her.
Well, no. Considering how many times youve barked at people for 'not having evidence' - why not give us your side? Also why even reply to me saying theres lots of evidence when you have no intention of sharing? Sounds like a bit of a drama queen moment to me.
I have provided numerous pieces of evidence in support of what I am saying. Several are in this very thread.
"Lets say vast numbers of christians emigrated to an islamic country, refused to intergrate, learn the language etc. The christians started wearing their own style of clothing, women in short skirts, uncovered heads etc. They also started to build western-style buildings, such as churches, butchers (selling typical fayre, including pork), cinemas (showing 'immoral decadent' western movies) hey, maybe even a pub or two - in effect, instead of embracing their new country and its culture, they are trying to build a mini-version of the country they just left
Meanwhile, some christians are killing muslims by planting bombs on their transport systems, shopping centres, any place where large numbers of muslims may gather in fact. Other christians burn the national flag and other symbolic emblems pertaining to the country which has allowed them to live there and has provided them with houses, medical facilities, education, all manner of things they didn'tget in their original country
Brave islamic soldiers come back from war and christians line the streets wishing them dead, burning more flags and stuff. There's a hardly a day goes by when the christians aren't complaining about some christian-related issue"
Until the above hyperthetical situation becomes a reality, I don't think those referring to christian-related violence as a response to islamic-related violence have a leg to stand on as it were
Much of that's already been reality, it's called colonialism. Just add a very long list of other faiths to Islam.
Poppy burning is offensive toward fellow human beings who have died or been maimed in conflict.
Flag burning is fine as long as you hate the country enough for you to leave and go live somewhere else. Otherwise it's hypocritical.
Your cult doesn't have leaders that encourage you to kill people if they offend it. They haven't done for 400 years or so - since they became a bit more civilised.
It is, although it appears there is no specific law covering such an action, so they have committed no crime. Kind of falls over as it doesn't fit inciting religious hatred, as poppies themselves are not religious symbols.
Outrage is the wrong word, as that implies getting all excitable about it. I'd say just a quiet but utter contempt, is felt by me towards the perpetrators.
I have provided numerous pieces of evidence in support of what I am saying. Several are in this very thread.
Perhaps a visit to specsavers is in order?
Ohhh, touchy! So its perfectly normal to say 'I HAVE LOTS OF EVIDENCE GUV' then say 'uhhhh but im not going to say what that evidence is because y'know its through this thread so uh go look'.
I take it that the schooling you both shared benefitted you a lot more than her.
To be honest, I'm actually appalled by reading old schoolmates' updates. I keep thinking "but I was sitting NEXT to you when we learned about apostrophes! I know you were IN that lesson!!!"
My curiosity having been satiated, I really should just delete them all now, but there's one guy whose life is mysteriously fascinating (in a way that involves a lot of jail-time, as far as I can tell), and I'm sure if I just deleted the rest except him, then someone would notice. And it sounds like he's turned into the kind of guy I really WOULDN'T want to piss off.
Come ON! Look, if you dislike Islam as much as you seem to, then fair enough, that's how you feel. But did the phrase "know your enemy" never mean anything to you? I mean, you're (OK, not necessarily just meaning you, BNN, here, but you get my drift) trying real hard to argue that Islamophobia is not down to ignorance- perhaps showing a bit less of it might help convince us. Otherwise we'll reach a point when I can say "statistically, people who hate Islam on principle are more likely to be ignorant".
The same point can be turned the other way.
What do many of those who defend Islam know about the religion?
Never seen anybody being attacked for defending Islam being asked whether they know much about it.
And there's no such thing as Islamaphobia anyway, what a stupid phrase.
Endless threads attacking christianity, catholics, the resurrection, the West Bro lot, you name it there's been an attack on it, ect. and yet never has anybody been as pathetic to start calling it "christianaphobia".
No difference between hating Islam and hating any other religion, so why the "phobia" label?
Ohhh, touchy! So its perfectly normal to say 'I HAVE LOTS OF EVIDENCE GUV' then say 'uhhhh but im not going to say what that evidence is because y'know its through this thread so uh go look'.
Please, youre a bullshitter.
:rolleyes:
It is in this very thread.
Do carry on, the entertainment you provide is top notch.
What do many of those who defend Islam know about the religion?
Never seen anybody being attacked for defending Islam being asked whether they know much about it.
And there's no such thing as Islamaphobia anyway, what a stupid phrase.
Endless threads attacking christianity, catholics, the resurrection, the West Bro lot, you name it there's been an attack on it, ect. and yet never has anybody been as pathetic to start calling it "christianaphobia".
No difference between hating Islam and hating any other religion, so why the "phobia" label?
By the same logic, there's no difference between hating one nation or another. Yet anglophobia, francophobia, lusophobia etc etc are all dictionary defined, normal and acceptable terms.
Do you also apply the same logic to the term anti-semitism? Is that a stupid phrase too? Or the endless amount of other examples?
What do many of those who defend Islam know about the religion?
Never seen anybody being attacked for defending Islam being asked whether they know much about it.
And there's no such thing as Islamaphobia anyway, what a stupid phrase.
Endless threads attacking christianity, catholics, the resurrection, the West Bro lot, you name it there's been an attack on it, ect. and yet never has anybody been as pathetic to start calling it "christianaphobia".
No difference between hating Islam and hating any other religion, so why the "phobia" label?
SS, I don't know all there is to know about Islam. One could spend a lifetime reading, practising, thinking, studying it. I've never claimed to. I'm not an Imam. But I am always learning.
But surely you can see a difference between knowing all there is to know about something (expert) and just having a basic level of knowledge with which one can discuss and debate at a common level?
If you just hurdle into a topic ranting about the wrongs of it without knowing the foundations of what you're on about how can you be taken seriously?
Confusing Islam and Judaism? Iraq and Afghanistan? Come on!
SS, I don't know all there is to know about Islam. One could spend a lifetime reading, practising, thinking, studying it. I've never claimed to. I'm not an Imam. But I am always learning.
But surely you can see a difference between knowing all there is to know about something (expert) and just having a basic level of knowledge with which one can discuss and debate at a common level?
If you just hurdle into a topic ranting about the wrongs of it without knowing the foundations of what you're on about how can you be taken seriously?
Confusing Islam and Judaism? Iraq and Afghanistan? Come on!
Islam is as old as man. It has been preached for 1400 years. Is this is what followers believe?
Our culture which has done far worse throughout history? Our culture which is partly responsible for thousands and thousands and thousands of death in Afghanistan? But thats all different, eh, Meemee.
You seem to just spout lots of hot air about facts and truths, yet youve shown yourself to be clueless, making comments based on factual inaccuracies.
I simply dont believe that you get so wound up over this because youre a believer in womans rights. Do you also get as wound up about the white skinned women in this country? I think not. Only when it suits.
You sound like a total sexist if you don't believe women's rights are important enough for women to get 'wound up' about! After all - Muslim men don't have a very good record on women's rights do they! Makes you every bit as 'ist' as you accuse me of being!
Don't get so high and mighty with me - when, it strikes me you are in no position to do so!
Go on - keep gobbing off and throwing allegations around all over the place - that are not based on any facts - only your perceptions of my comments and what you think I mean, as opposed to what I say I mean!
What do many of those who defend Islam know about the religion?
Never seen anybody being attacked for defending Islam being asked whether they know much about it.
And there's no such thing as Islamaphobia anyway, what a stupid phrase.
Endless threads attacking christianity, catholics, the resurrection, the West Bro lot, you name it there's been an attack on it, ect. and yet never has anybody been as pathetic to start calling it "christianaphobia".
No difference between hating Islam and hating any other religion, so why the "phobia" label?
That's a fair point, but largely a semantic one. I'd be up for "Christianophobic" being a word, but I fear it's a little too polysyllabic to catch on. Maybe five years ago, but... we get dumber every day.
But... I'm not sure that many of us who you seem to think are "defending Islam" actually ARE defending Islam. I don't follow it- I have many problems with it; the two are, coincidentally enough, linked. I'm not defending Islam, any more than I'm defending Christianity when I get all pissy with the anti-Christian threads, which I do a lot. I have problems with that too, and, guess what, don't follow that one either. I'm not a big fan of religion in general. Or strong Atheism. (If you must know, I'm a militant Agnostic).
What I DO hate is attacks on sections of the population. Muslims, Christians, whatever. And that's what's happening here.
You sound like a total sexist if you don't believe women's rights are important enough for women to get 'wound up' about! After all - Muslim men don't have a very good record on women's rights do they! Makes you every bit as 'ist' as you accuse me of being!
Don't get so high and mighty with me - when, it strikes me you are in no position to do so!
Go on - keep gobbing off and throwing allegations around all over the place - that are not based on any facts - only your perceptions of my comments and what you think I mean, as opposed to what I say I mean!
I wouldn't say sexist. Full of self is closer to the mark.
You sound like a total sexist if you don't believe women's rights are important enough for women to get 'wound up' about! After all - Muslim men don't have a very good record on women's rights do they! Makes you every bit as 'ist' as you accuse me of being!
Don't get so high and mighty with me - when, it strikes me you are in no position to do so!
Go on - keep gobbing off and throwing allegations around all over the place - that are not based on any facts - only your perceptions of my comments and what you think I mean, as opposed to what I say I mean!
Oh yes it is - and it is nothing to do with you! He is quite capable of speaking for himself! Getting pretty annoyed of this habit you have of speaking for other people!
What do many of those who defend Islam know about the religion?
Never seen anybody being attacked for defending Islam being asked whether they know much about it.
And there's no such thing as Islamaphobia anyway, what a stupid phrase.
Endless threads attacking christianity, catholics, the resurrection, the West Bro lot, you name it there's been an attack on it, ect. and yet never has anybody been as pathetic to start calling it "christianaphobia".
No difference between hating Islam and hating any other religion, so why the "phobia" label?
So we're defending Islam are we?. Maybe if you actually read many of the posts on here you would see that isn't the case with the vast majority of us.
I'll say it again, my one and only point has always been that, yes Islam has a problem with violent nutters, but so do many other religions both now and in the past.
Personally I'm an athiest, and I have just as much of a problem with Christians using their religion to justify their actions as I do with Muslims. However, unlike most of those on the other side I don't see ALL Christians or ALL Muslims as dangerous, terrorists or nutters just because a bunch of them on the fringes act that way.
Granted Islam is likely our biggest threat in terms of extremism at present, but it's only 20 years ago since it was the IRA and most "phobes" if you want to call them that, felt the same way about the Irish as they now do about Muslims.
We don't really have a major problem with Christian extremist groups here in the UK, but they certainly do in parts of the US and a few other countries.
Now maybe you can stop calling us nonsensical phrases like "Muslim apologists"
So we're defending Islam are we?. Maybe if you actually read many of the posts on here you would see that isn't the case with the vast majority of us.
I'll say it again, my one and only point has always been that, yes Islam has a problem with violent nutters, but so do many other religions both now and in the past.
Personally I'm an athiest, and I have just as much of a problem with Christians using their religion to justify their actions as I do with Muslims. However, unlike most of those on the other side I don't see ALL Christians or ALL Muslims as dangerous, terrorists or nutters just because a bunch of them on the fringes act that way.
Granted Islam is likely our biggest threat in terms of extremism at present, but it's only 20 years ago since it was the IRA and most "phobes" if you want to call them that, felt the same way about the Irish as they now do about Muslims.
We don't really have a major problem with Christian extremist groups here in the UK, but they certainly do in parts of the US and a few other countries.
Now maybe you can stop calling us nonsensical phrases like "Muslim apologists"
Maybe some posters on the opposite side can stop calling us 'racists' :rolleyes:
Oh yes it is - and it is nothing to do with you! He is quite capable of speaking for himself! Getting pretty annoyed of this habit you have of speaking for other people!
Comments
Excellent post - and very true!
Well, no. Considering how many times youve barked at people for 'not having evidence' - why not give us your side? Also why even reply to me saying theres lots of evidence when you have no intention of sharing? Sounds like a bit of a drama queen moment to me.
Sure they can have opinions, talk about their lives and the problems where they live (although it seems both are reluctant to go into detail about it).
But when they make claims and generalisations about Islam or Muslims in a national or international or social basis, I'm not sure how accurate anything they say is given previous form.
I take it that the schooling you both shared benefitted you a lot more than her.
I have provided numerous pieces of evidence in support of what I am saying. Several are in this very thread.
Perhaps a visit to specsavers is in order?
Much of that's already been reality, it's called colonialism. Just add a very long list of other faiths to Islam.
It is, although it appears there is no specific law covering such an action, so they have committed no crime. Kind of falls over as it doesn't fit inciting religious hatred, as poppies themselves are not religious symbols.
Outrage is the wrong word, as that implies getting all excitable about it. I'd say just a quiet but utter contempt, is felt by me towards the perpetrators.
Ohhh, touchy! So its perfectly normal to say 'I HAVE LOTS OF EVIDENCE GUV' then say 'uhhhh but im not going to say what that evidence is because y'know its through this thread so uh go look'.
Please, youre a bullshitter.
To be honest, I'm actually appalled by reading old schoolmates' updates. I keep thinking "but I was sitting NEXT to you when we learned about apostrophes! I know you were IN that lesson!!!"
My curiosity having been satiated, I really should just delete them all now, but there's one guy whose life is mysteriously fascinating (in a way that involves a lot of jail-time, as far as I can tell), and I'm sure if I just deleted the rest except him, then someone would notice. And it sounds like he's turned into the kind of guy I really WOULDN'T want to piss off.
The same point can be turned the other way.
What do many of those who defend Islam know about the religion?
Never seen anybody being attacked for defending Islam being asked whether they know much about it.
And there's no such thing as Islamaphobia anyway, what a stupid phrase.
Endless threads attacking christianity, catholics, the resurrection, the West Bro lot, you name it there's been an attack on it, ect. and yet never has anybody been as pathetic to start calling it "christianaphobia".
No difference between hating Islam and hating any other religion, so why the "phobia" label?
:rolleyes:
It is in this very thread.
Do carry on, the entertainment you provide is top notch.
By the same logic, there's no difference between hating one nation or another. Yet anglophobia, francophobia, lusophobia etc etc are all dictionary defined, normal and acceptable terms.
Do you also apply the same logic to the term anti-semitism? Is that a stupid phrase too? Or the endless amount of other examples?
SS, I don't know all there is to know about Islam. One could spend a lifetime reading, practising, thinking, studying it. I've never claimed to. I'm not an Imam. But I am always learning.
But surely you can see a difference between knowing all there is to know about something (expert) and just having a basic level of knowledge with which one can discuss and debate at a common level?
If you just hurdle into a topic ranting about the wrongs of it without knowing the foundations of what you're on about how can you be taken seriously?
Confusing Islam and Judaism? Iraq and Afghanistan? Come on!
Oh im glad! Im not reading through this thread to find some myths and legends which you claim to have posted.
Youve shown yourself up, matey. Anyway, back to South Park. G'night!
Islam is as old as man. It has been preached for 1400 years. Is this is what followers believe?
You sound like a total sexist if you don't believe women's rights are important enough for women to get 'wound up' about! After all - Muslim men don't have a very good record on women's rights do they! Makes you every bit as 'ist' as you accuse me of being!
Don't get so high and mighty with me - when, it strikes me you are in no position to do so!
Go on - keep gobbing off and throwing allegations around all over the place - that are not based on any facts - only your perceptions of my comments and what you think I mean, as opposed to what I say I mean!
That's a fair point, but largely a semantic one. I'd be up for "Christianophobic" being a word, but I fear it's a little too polysyllabic to catch on. Maybe five years ago, but... we get dumber every day.
But... I'm not sure that many of us who you seem to think are "defending Islam" actually ARE defending Islam. I don't follow it- I have many problems with it; the two are, coincidentally enough, linked. I'm not defending Islam, any more than I'm defending Christianity when I get all pissy with the anti-Christian threads, which I do a lot. I have problems with that too, and, guess what, don't follow that one either. I'm not a big fan of religion in general. Or strong Atheism. (If you must know, I'm a militant Agnostic).
What I DO hate is attacks on sections of the population. Muslims, Christians, whatever. And that's what's happening here.
I wouldn't say sexist. Full of self is closer to the mark.
Oh yes it is - and it is nothing to do with you! He is quite capable of speaking for himself! Getting pretty annoyed of this habit you have of speaking for other people!
So we're defending Islam are we?. Maybe if you actually read many of the posts on here you would see that isn't the case with the vast majority of us.
I'll say it again, my one and only point has always been that, yes Islam has a problem with violent nutters, but so do many other religions both now and in the past.
Personally I'm an athiest, and I have just as much of a problem with Christians using their religion to justify their actions as I do with Muslims. However, unlike most of those on the other side I don't see ALL Christians or ALL Muslims as dangerous, terrorists or nutters just because a bunch of them on the fringes act that way.
Granted Islam is likely our biggest threat in terms of extremism at present, but it's only 20 years ago since it was the IRA and most "phobes" if you want to call them that, felt the same way about the Irish as they now do about Muslims.
We don't really have a major problem with Christian extremist groups here in the UK, but they certainly do in parts of the US and a few other countries.
Now maybe you can stop calling us nonsensical phrases like "Muslim apologists"
Maybe some posters on the opposite side can stop calling us 'racists' :rolleyes:
You know who I am talking about.
It really isn't.